About the Democratic Socialists of America, the group that is going all out for Bernie,

[pnwmom]

the self-branded Democratic Socialist. Despite the protests of many Bernie supporters, Democratic Socialists are socialists -- people who want to, in the group's own words, abolish capitalism.

If Bernie is merely an FDR Democrat or a New Deal Democrat, that is how he should brand himself -- not as a socialist.

This is from a couple years ago.

https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2017/8/5/15930786/dsa-socialists-convention-national


Like most socialist organizations, DSA believes in the abolition of capitalism in favor of an economy run either by “the workers” or the state — though the exact specifics of “abolishing capitalism” are fiercely debated by socialists.

“The academic debates about socialism’s ‘meaning’ are huge and arcane and rife with disagreements, but what all definitions have in common is either the elimination of the market or its strict containment,” said Frances Fox Piven, a scholar of the left at the City University of New York and a former DSA board member.

In practice, that means DSA believes in ending the private ownership of a wide range of industries whose products are viewed as “necessities,” which they say should not be left to those seeking to turn a profit. According to DSA’s current mission statement, the government should ensure all citizens receive adequate food, housing, health care, child care, and education. DSA also believes that the government should “democratize” private businesses — i.e., force owners to give workers control over them — to the greatest extent possible.

SNIP

DSA does have a history of members who were more likely to consider themselves “New Deal Democrats,” more interested in creating a robust welfare state than in turning the means of production over to the workers. But David Duhalde, DSA’s deputy director, says the “overwhelming majority” of its current members are committed to socialism’s enactment through the outright abolition of capitalism.


https://www.dsausa.org/democratic-left/building-dsa-with-bernie/

Bernie Sanders is the first viable national candidate in living memory who identifies as a democratic socialist, and his campaign has already mobilized masses of working people. By endorsing Sanders, DSA committed to playing a key role on the national stage. Rather than limit ourselves to funneling volunteers to Sanders field offices, we launched an Independent Expenditure (IE) campaign to go toe-to-toe with the right wing and corporate Democrats. The IE gives DSA the ability to set its own strategy and dedicate its full resources to the cause as long as it does not coordinate with the campaign.

[msongs]

1. so how is prime minister corbyn doing these days? nt

[empedocles]

13. Ooooooooooooooh

[hedda_foil]

2. You are better than this.

[questionseverything]

5. evidently not

[TheCowsCameHome]

3. What is this ISA group that appeared in Richland, WA with Sanders?

- The organization that was his lead-in act, and the Op'er posted here and later self-deleted, just a few days ago?

[questionseverything]

4. if being a socialist means we all get decent healthcare...count me in

[pnwmom]

7. It won't. nt

[questionseverything]

9. you don't know that afterall medicare works pretty well

the problem now is young peops money goes to private insurance while old peops(that cost the most medically) get paid for by taxpayers

[pnwmom]

11. They are vastly overpromising on Medicare. It isn't free.

If you don't pay extra for Part B, you won't be covered for out-patient procedures, which are more and more prevalent these days. If you don't pay for a supplement, you still have copays to deal with. And even with a supplement, you can still end up with some charges not covered. (I haven't quite figured out why, but my mother's bills and coverage never quite added up.) And you have to pay for Part D in order to get drug coverage. And, finally, not all providers accept Medicare.

They're also trying to destroy Medicare from the inside out. They have been slashing staffing ever since Trump's first years in office. I went with a relative to sign up recently (because it couldn't be done in her case online or on the phone) and we were there three hours. (They didn't let her make an appointment ahead of time.) And we still didn't come out with a Medicare number. Instead, we had an appointment time for another appointment, in a few weeks. Why is the whole sign-up process taking so long? Because they have closed some of their offices and others are grossly understaffed.

They are doing everything they can to convince people Medicare is no longer a good thing.

[Celerity]

30. You do not need socialism to have good and universal healthcare, all the other advanced nations do

and NONE are socialist. We here in Sweden are a perfect example. Sweden is most definitely NOT a socialist nation, we have social democracy, that is synergistically aided by a very vibrant, (and also highly regulated, which is where America FAILS massively) capitalist sector.

[Turin_C3PO]

6. I'm not afraid of socialists.

I‘m afraid of fascists.

[pnwmom]

8. I'm afraid of a socialist whose brand will cause him to lose the Presidential election

and also our majority in the House, where many are in vulnerable swing districts that would never elect someone perceived to be a socialist.

[questionseverything]

10. if you were really afraid you would stop spreading the narrative

false narrative

its a mixed economy we want

[pnwmom]

14. I would much rather have Elizabeth Warren win, an honest leftist with detailed proposals.

And she doesn't paint herself as a socialist, a word that will needlessly alienate millions of Americans.

[questionseverything]

15. i would be great with warren for pres or as sanders vp but

you for sure are getting tooo tangled up in definitions that don't count anymore

[pnwmom]

18. They might not count for leftist progressives, but they DO count for millions of Americans

who vote -- especially older Americans and those in the swing states.

The last thing we need to do is have a Presidential nominee whose unpopular brand puts our House majority in jeopardy.

[SunSeeker]

20. Words matter. Dictionary definitions matter. nt

[Celerity]

32. you may want a mixed economy, but a large portion of the intellectual forces behind Sanders most

definitely do not. They want state or social (or both) expropriation of the means of production.

Bernie chooses to use the label of their ideology by self-identifying as a democratic socialist, which is either a false label for him, or he is being dishonest in what his true goals are. It is also electoral suicide to self-label as a socialist in reactionary America, whether he is falsely labelling himself, or falsely stating his true core beliefs.

[empedocles]

12. Yes!

[still_one]

51. +++

[David__77]

16. Lots of Democrats have been in DSA. Dolores Huerta, Ron Dellums...

The Democratic Party is a big tent.

Also, what's described above sounds like a mixed economy to me - a socialist sector and a private sector.

[DanTex]

17. Bernie is not part of DSA. So this is irrelevant.

[SunSeeker]

21. The DSA is not a political party. He doesn't need to be a "member" of it.

From the Vox article:

3) Is DSA a political party?

No.

DSA’s ancestor, the Socialist Party of America, really was a political party that ran candidates like Debs and controlled the mayoralty of Milwaukee for years. But the idea that it’s a political party today is perhaps the biggest misconception about the DSA.

Unlike the Green Party or the Libertarian Party or even the new “Moderate Whig Party,” the DSA is not registered with the Federal Election Commission as a political party.

Instead, DSA is a 501(c)4 nonprofit. That frees it up to avoid cumbersome paperwork required of those organizations, and focus on what it calls its No. 1 objective — building a broad-based “anti-capitalist” movement for democratic socialism.

https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2017/8/5/15930786/dsa-socialists-convention-national

[DanTex]

22. So? It still has members, and Bernie isn't one of them. What is the point of this?

[SunSeeker]

23. He may not be a dues paying member, but he's unequivocally a Democratic Socialist.

By the way, how do you know he's not a member? Did he disavow the organization or something? He certainly adores their founding father, Eugene Debs.

[pnwmom]

24. He uses the same name as the Democratic Socialists. You expect average voters

to tell them apart, when their site is plastered with mentions of Bernie and many of their members used to work for Bernie?

[DanTex]

25. Average voters have never heard of DSA.

[pnwmom]

27. You don't think the Trump campaign will plaster info about them all over the media?

You don't think the MSM will point out all the people working with the DS who are from Bernie's first campaign?
You don't think there will be stories about how hard the DSA is working for Bernie?

Average voters have probably not heard from them now, but if Bernie is the nominee, OF COURSE this will be part of the Trump attack plan.

We'll spend countless hours explaining that Bernie isn't a "real" socialist, while they put countless videos up of Bernie praising people like Castro.

[DanTex]

29. Not really, since Bernie has nothing to do with DSA.

[pnwmom]

36. Tell that to its website. nt

[cliffside]

35. "You don't think the Trump campaign will plaster info about them all over the media?" You're doing a

a good job

Not sure why people get so hung up on a label.

[pnwmom]

37. We shouldn't wait till the general election to acknowledge the problems a candidate

might have in winning.

[cliffside]

38. And we should not do the dirty work for the Trump party. nt

[pnwmom]

40. Bernie's been shooting himself in the foot. Sorry, I couldn't help notice. nt

[cliffside]

41. I'm not into defining people by a label or ... nt

[pnwmom]

42. Trump is the world's expert on branding. We better learn something about it, fast. n/t

[cliffside]

44. There are choices to be made, you can either side with the Trump party or defend policies that ...

benefit the majority of citizens no matter the label, that is my view.

[pnwmom]

45. Another option is to pick another excellent candidate who isn't insisting on an unpopular brand.

Thats my choice. Someone like Elizabeth Warren, a strong progressive who is happy to brand herself as a capitalist.

[cliffside]

47. One could push back as Sanders does by pointing out examples of corporate socialism ...

my opinion is that by Dems pushing this socialism message is not helpful going forward. We differ in our opinion.

[pnwmom]

48. Then you should ask Bernie not to call himself a Democratic Socialist.

That's the root of the problem, unless, of course, you think he actually is one.

[cliffside]

49. You are the one hung up on a label, not me. Maybe the root of the problem are

those who judge a book by its cover.

[pnwmom]

50. BERNIE himself is hung up on the label. That is why, in the same week

that he signed the sworn pledge that he WAS a Democrat, that he was going to run for President as a Democrat, and to serve as a Democrat, he ALSO signed up to run as an Independent Democratic Socialist in Vermont for the Senate.

[SunSeeker]

19. This is why Bernie always, inaccurately, says Democratic Socialism is "like Denmark."

It is because the accurate answer, that Bernie always avoids giving, is anathema to the vast majority of Americans: Democratic Socialists believe in the abolition of capitalism; that workers or government should own and control capital.

As the Vox article notes, DSA dates back to Eugene Debs, who ran for President in the 1920s as a Socialist.

Bernie's hero is Socialist Eugene Debs, not FDR.

Bernie made a glowing documentary of Debs in which Bernie does the voice over for Debs' speeches, including the one where he says both the Democratic and Republican Parties are equality opposed to workers rights:

Bernie admiringly recites Debs speeches from memory:

In these old videos, Bernie espouses the actual principles of DSA. No mention is made of Denmark.

[pnwmom]

26. Ugh. We'll be seeing more of those, if he makes it to the general. n/t

[samnsara]

28. i am not a socialist democrat and i dont want one as president...so there

[yardwork]

31. DSA is much further to the left than Bernie Sanders.

Sanders doesn't agree with all of DSA's positions.

[pnwmom]

34. Warren clearly said she is a capitalist, and Bernie said she is a capitalist "through to the bone."

But not Bernie, he says. He's not a capitalist.

[colsohlibgal]

33. Much Ado About Not Much

Billionaires should pay a higher effective tax rate than a middle or lower class individual. Average folks should not go bankrupt from illness. Not sure what’s so radical about that but it seems to be seen as radical by some Democrats.

[cliffside]

39. Thank you! nt

[Celerity]

43. If you want to get within sniffing distance of accruing enough political power to do that, then

absolutely remove the false socialist labels from it all, as that ship ain't sailing in reactionary America under that banner.

[pnwmom]

46. You claim to support Warren but Bernie criticizes her for being a "capitalist through to the bone,"

while saying he is not.

Bernie is NOT the only candidate who believes "average folks should not go bankrupt from illness." And, as you know, unlike Mr. Sanders, Warren has an actual plan with real numbers.

[lapfog_1]

52. more about the DSA... which is itself a direct descendant of the SDA (Social Democrats of American)

For the 2016 presidential election, the DSA endorsed Sanders as the favored presidential candidate. While making it clear that Sanders' New Deal-inspired program did not fulfill the socialist aim of establishing social ownership of the economy, the DSA considered his campaign as a positive development in the context of contemporary American politics.[40] The DSA noted the importance of his candidacy as a self-identified democratic socialist candidate as well as "a lifelong champion of the public programs and democratic rights that empower working class people".[41] The DSA managed the #WeNeedBernie campaign, an internally focused initiative directed towards mobilizing DSA supporters for Sanders.[41] After Sanders' defeat in the 2016 Democratic primaries, the DSA called for the defeat of Donald Trump, but it did not officially endorse Democratic nominee Hillary Clinton.[42]

In the 2018 midterm elections, the DSA had anticipated seeing the first DSA member in Congress and reaching 100 elected officials nationwide from its strategic down-ballot campaigns.[7] 42 formally endorsed people were running for offices at the federal, state and local levels in 20 states, including Florida, Hawaii, Kansas and Michigan; Maine's Zak Ringelstein, a Democrat, was its sole senatorial candidate.[46] Local chapters have endorsed 110 candidates.[47] Four female DSA members (Sara Innamorato, Summer Lee, Elizabeth Fiedler and Kristin Seale) won Democratic primary contests for seats in the Pennsylvania House of Representatives, two of them defeating conservative male Democratic incumbents.[48][49][50][51] Additionally, Jade Bahr and Amelia Marquez won their primaries in Montana for the State House[52] and Jeremy Mele won his primary for the Maine House of Representatives.[53][54] In California, Jovanka Beckles won one of the top two spots in the primary and advanced to the general election for a State Assembly seat in the East Bay.[55]

On June 26, DSA member and endorsee Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez won the Democratic primary against incumbent Representative Joseph Crowley in New York's 14th congressional district in a surprise upset, virtually guaranteeing her the congressional seat in the heavily Democratic district which spans parts of the Bronx and Queens.[56][57] However, Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi dismissed the win as "not to be viewed as something that stands for anything else"[58] and argued that it only represented change in one progressive district.[59] Conversely, head of the Democratic National Committee Tom Perez proclaimed her to be "the future of our party"[60] whereas the Trotskyist International Committee of the Fourth International critiqued her and the DSA as being a "left" cover for the "right-wing Democratic Party", particularly in regard to foreign policy.[61] Six weeks after Ocasio-Cortez's primary victory, DSA member and endorsee Rashida Tlaib won the Democratic primary in Michigan's 13th congressional district.[62] Both Ocasio-Cortez and Tlaib went on to win their respective general elections to become members of Congress. Ultimately, about a dozen members (or non-members who were endorsed) won office in their state legislatures.[63] In the aggregate, the DSA had backed 40 winning candidates at the state, county and municipal levels.[13][64]