Could Bernie's "plans" even be enacted into law?

[Sparkly]

The constant debate questions over details of healthcare policy are tiresome, considering none of this is moved into law by presidential decree. The first thing to remember is that Republicans do exist.

For Bernie Sanders to win the presidency, he'd first need to overcome the fact that Republicans and moderate independents vote in the general election. Where someone like Amy Klobuchar can win them over, and in fact has never lost a race against a Republican, the Democratic Socialist promising big spending for "free stuff" will be less convincing to those voters.

But let's say for the sake of argument that he does it. He becomes president. To get his plans into law, he will need the House and the Senate. But in districts around the country where Republicans and moderates vote, the down-ticket results of his name at the top may be losses for Democrats. Republican majorities in the House and Senate will not let anything through, and Sanders does not have a history of working through compromise or persuasion to pass legislation.

From a Washington Post article:

“We flipped those seats [in 2018] because of Donald Trump,” said one House Democrat who represents a suburban district, speaking on the condition of anonymity to reflect internal discussions. “And if Democrats want to hand most of those back, put Bernie at the top of the ticket. And that’s how many of us feel.”
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/as-bernie-sanderss-momentum-builds-down-ballot-democrats-move-to-distance-themselves/2020/02/22/3364ddd8-5516-11ea-9e47-59804be1dcfb_story.html

Worse is the prospect that Democrats lose the House while also failing to regain the Senate and the White House -- leaving us with a completely out-of-control Trump and a sycophantic Congress and DOJ. That's a HUGE risk.

I'd rather persuade disenchanted moderates and Republicans and unify the counties we won in 2018 with the base we already have, rather than dividing further along purity lines of who's "progressive" enough and who's "corporate establishment evil." We need the biggest tent possible, and that means the so-called left needs to move to the so-called right to kick out the monstrosity that's overtaken the country, and THEN we can talk about making progress.

[msongs]

1. if we can only get one of senate/presidency the senate is more important if we keep the

house

[Autumn]

2. Do you see Joe's promise to increase the subsidies for ACA ever happening?

The GOP will fight either but if we don't try we will never do anything. We lost badly because of the ACA once but when the same people who hated it found out the ACA was Obamacare, the same one they wanted gone they were upset. All we can do is not let the Republicans tell us what we can and can't have and what we should or should not do. In the real world Sanders has numbers that are shocking and all we hear is he can't win. Like it or not Bernie has good numbers and not because he's in the "center lane" as Mathews calls it.

[Mike 03]

7. What kind of argument is this?

It sounds like you're saying, "Let's stop pretending we will ever have any improvements in health care, no matter who is president, but let's elect Bernie anyway."

[Autumn]

12. That's what you got? No, I pointed out that the GOP will fight anything any Dems does and fearing

to put up bold ideas is pandering to them and giving them what they want legislation that starts where they want it to start so they can move it further right.

[Sparkly]

24. Which is why beating them in Congress is so important

and why Sanders is risky for the down-ballot races he would need to enact any legislation.

[Sparkly]

8. Yes, if he had the coattails to turn the Senate.

Not sure he does, but I don't think he would turn people off, either.

[brush]

18. With Biden we have a chance of taking the Senate and keeping the House, not so with Sanders.

Sanders' supporters need to start thinking about that and vote for a candidate who is best for the Party and the country.

[Autumn]

21. I've seen no proof of that. Biden no longer has the high numbers he had when he

started running and Bernie and others have pick off some of his black support. Joe has had episodosed of mixing up events and claiming thing that there are no proof of. Like his arrest in SA when he was a sitting US Senator, recently asking people to vote for him for the Senate and if they don't like him they can vote for the other Biden. You are going to have to give me some proof about his long coat tails before I buy that bridge.

A video of Mr Biden’s speech shared widely on social media showed him saying: “My name is Joe Biden. I’m a Democratic candidate for the United States Senate. Look me over, if you like what you see, help out. If not, vote for the other Biden.”

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/joe-biden-speech-senate-south-carolina-democratic-primary-video-election-2020-a9356366.html

Link to tweet

[brush]

23. Think of down-ticket races. Who wants to defend socialism at the top of the ticket?

[Autumn]

25. Who wants to defend "we can't do that because it will make republicans sad" at the top of the

the ticket? See how neither of those work? I think our down ticket Dems are more than capable of "defending" healthcare for all and other policies for Americans that benefit the people they are asking to vote for them.

Hell, they would probably get more votes talking about what they are going to attempt to do for them.

[brush]

32. Who's talking about repugs. Apparently you aren't aware we need more than Dem votes to win.

FYI: 40% of the electorate are independents, and many are not favorable towards socialists. And then there are the never-trumpers too who would be nice to have.

[Autumn]

34. What do Republicans have to do with anything?

Many of those independents lean towards Dems, and a lot of those Independents are young voters who do not identify as Democrats and are very liberal. Socialism is not the commie scare you think it is.

[brush]

39. It is to millions of older voters who out-vote younger ones 2-1.

Why don't you know this stuff?

[Autumn]

44. Yes you keep saying that. You can thank the young people for rocking the vote in 2018

https://www.washingtonpost.com/

[brush]

45. Seriously? We flipped many red districts to take the House, hardly socialist territory. Get real.

[lapfog_1]

31. the complete context here is important...

what Joe said was "When I started in national politics I would say...

and the "vote for the other Biden" is a joke about how his wife is just as popular as he is.

And he was detained by police in South Africa. Ok not "arrested" but detained. And yes, I know, he should be extremely careful in his use of language and that he is a lawyer and should know the difference and blah blah blah (litigated on other threads).

But don't repeat the lies... it just makes you guys look small and petty.

He isn't suffering from dementia or telling tall tales about his time in South Africa.

[uponit7771]

33. Yes, Biden can turn the senate according to 3 month swing state polling vs Trump Sanders can't

[Autumn]

35. Sure.

[uponit7771]

36. Great we agree, there are so many who don't think facts matter here

[Autumn]

38. When I agree with someone I say so, I've have seen no facts to agree with.

Your polls you depend on were pre slide. Unless you have some really recent ones.

[uponit7771]

41. Sanders doesn't beat Trump outside of MOE in the last 3 months MSNBC link inside

facts here ?

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/meet-the-press/nbc-news-wsj-poll-sanders-opens-double-digit-national-lead-n1138191

[Autumn]

42. Like I said, I'll wait for proof instead of depending on the polls for the last 3 months.

[uponit7771]

43. The latest swing state poll is in the link !! Also, 3 month polling is a good avg vs a

... current snap shot, the three month polling is what it'll be until Nov 4th or until a shock event happens

[Nanjeanne]

3. Who's plans do you think can be enacted then?

[Sparkly]

6. Whoever can bring in Republican and moderate independent voters.

Including down-ticket.

[Nanjeanne]

9. Well that scares me. Because those plans will include cuts to Medicare and SS and will do nothing

to bring down the cost of healthcare or prescription drugs.

So no thank you.

[Sparkly]

11. What plans?

[Nanjeanne]

16. Are we playing "Who's On First"?

[Sparkly]

17. No, or my line would be "What's cutting Medicare?!" har har

Actually, I was responding do, "Because those plans will include cuts to Medicare and SS and will do nothing." I didn't know which plans you meant.

[Moderateguy]

37. And if we lose the House and not regain the Senate and Sander loses?

What then?

[Cuthbert Allgood]

13. So which Republicans specifically are going to get together with Biden to increase ACA?

Really. Specifically who?

[Sparkly]

22. Good question, actually.

I was speaking of "moderate" Republican voters might vote for "moderate" Democrats this time around, for president as well as House and Senate.

[HarlanPepper]

4. 60 votes in the senate will get it done.

Some GOP votes will be needed, obviously.

[Cuthbert Allgood]

14. So which Republicans will vote with the "not Sanders" nominee to increase ACA?

Or to make M4A who want it?

Give me some names. Because it's not going to happen, either.

[ehrnst]

50. Proving a negative fallacy.

When you can't support your own position....

[brooklynite]

5. Anything beyond the bare minimum to flip the Senate...

would involve picking up Senate seats in deep-red States that will be next to impossible with Bernie as our nominee.

[TreasonousBastard]

15. Sanders' magnificent legislative record as a Senator...

Does anyone seriously think that he can build a coalition to enact any of his ideas?

https://www.govtrack.us/congress/members/bernard_sanders/400357

Sanders was the primary sponsor of 7 bills that were enacted:

S. 885 (113th): A bill to designate the facility of the United States Postal Service located at 35 Park Street in Danville, Vermont, as the “Thaddeus Stevens Post Office”.
S. 2782 (113th): A bill to amend title 36, United States Code, to improve the Federal charter for the Veterans of Foreign Wars of the United States, and for other ...
S. 893 (113th): Veterans’ Compensation Cost-of-Living Adjustment Act of 2013
H.R. 5245 (109th): To designate the facility of the United States Postal Service located at 1 Marble Street in Fair Haven, Vermont, as the “Matthew Lyon Post Office Building”.
H.J.Res. 129 (104th): Granting the consent of Congress to the Vermont-New Hampshire Interstate Public Water Supply Compact.
H.R. 1353 (102nd): Entitled the “Taconic Mountains Protection Act of 1991”.
H.J.Res. 132 (102nd): To designate March 4, 1991, as “Vermont Bicentennial Day”.
View All »

Does 7 not sound like a lot? Very few bills are ever enacted — most legislators sponsor only a handful that are signed into law. But there are other legislative activities that we don’t track that are also important, including offering amendments, committee work and oversight of the other branches, and constituent services.

We consider a bill enacted if one of the following is true: a) it is enacted itself, b) it has a companion bill in the other chamber (as identified by Congress) which was enacted, or c) if at least about half of its provisions were incorporated into bills that were enacted (as determined by an automated text analysis, applicable beginning with bills in the 110th Congress).

[Gothmog]

19. Former Nevada Sen. Harry Reid says 'not a chance in hell' Medicare for All would pass

Link to tweet

But Reid, who served as a Democrat in the U.S. Senate for 30 years, including as majority leader for eight years, said it didn't matter which candidate comes out in support of Sanders' signature health care plan: "I’m against it."

"It’s impractical ... There’s not a chance in hell it would pass," he told ABC News Political Director Rick Klein, instead advocating for strengthening the Affordable Care Act -- or Obamacare -- and looking to pass a public option.

There are not enough Democratic votes to get this concept passed in the real world

Link to tweet

[myohmy2]

20. let's see...

...how many new-found Presidential powers trump leaves us...

...we might not need too many...

[Moderateguy]

40. Seriously you are hoping that Trump abuses the office of the President..

So that Sanders can continue that abuse to get his agenda enacted?

[Squinch]

26. No.

[pamdb]

27. election

Even if Bernie wins, and I am NOT a Bernie supporter but will vote blue, even he wins and we manage to hold onto the House but don't get the Senate, nothing will happen, nothing will get passed.
Pete and Amy and Tom Snyder need to DROP OUT and get their supporters to go to Biden. They don't have a chance in hell of getting the nomination and they're just in the way and giving the nomination to Bernie.

[liberalmediaaddict]

28. The Supreme Court would block them 5 to 4

Call them all unconstitutional. Look what the courts have done to the ACA.

[ehrnst]

30. +1000.

[ehrnst]

29. And if they are, would SCOTUS strike down a mandate for states to participate

in an expansion of Medicare to all, as they did in 2010 with the mandate for states to participate in the Medicaid expansion?

[kentuck]

46. Doubtful.

But that sort of takes the steam out of the "radical socialist" argument.

[doc03]

47. About as much chance as Trump taking up jogging nt

[joethedrummer]

48. We need the biggest tent possible

So far Bernie is the candidate to beat in this regard. He won almost every demographic bar those over 65+ and African-Americans in Nevada (Super Tuesday is the real test though). So right now, if you want the biggest tent, Bernie is the one to beat.

[Sparkly]

49. You're still looking through the lens of our caucus/primary.

I'm thinking through to the general election once we have a nominee.

[Gothmog]

51. Former Nevada Sen. Harry Reid says 'not a chance in hell' Medicare for All would pass

Link to tweet

But Reid, who served as a Democrat in the U.S. Senate for 30 years, including as majority leader for eight years, said it didn't matter which candidate comes out in support of Sanders' signature health care plan: "I’m against it."

"It’s impractical ... There’s not a chance in hell it would pass," he told ABC News Political Director Rick Klein, instead advocating for strengthening the Affordable Care Act -- or Obamacare -- and looking to pass a public option.

There are not enough Democratic votes to get this concept passed in the real world

Link to tweet

[Gothmog]

52. Warren on sanders-Fails to get things passed, fails to stop things he opposes.

Link to tweet