Fred Guttenberg: These rape fantasies from Sanders are troubling, weird, and not normal.

[highplainsdem]

Link to tweet

And Guttenberg isn't even responding to another part of that 1972 essay by Sanders, after the opening about the rape fantasies:

https://www.vox.com/2015/5/28/8682503/bernie-sanders-rape-fantasy

Have you ever looked at the Stag, Man, Hero, Tough magazines on the shelf of your local bookstore? Do you know why the newspaper with the articles like "Girl 12 raped by 14 men" sell so well? To what in us are they appealing?

Emphasis added.

This is the first I'd heard about newspapers with stories of little girls being gang-raped selling particularly well.

Sanders' question about why this is "appealing" to "us" is chilling.

[George II]

1. I think that thing about the girl being gang raped was a news article about a bunch of perverts....

...who were subsequently arrested. It wasn't a piece of fiction.

[RandySF]

2. It gets worse

I saw a quote related to toddlers that I don’t even want to post. But you can follow the link if you have a strong stomach.


https://politicalwire.com/2020/02/25/bloomberg-campaign-tries-to-expose-bernies-loony-side/

[thesquanderer]

12. It might be worth checking into the context of that one, too.

Some info in the post in this post from another thread.

[IluvPitties]

3. This needs to be front and center of tonight's debate.

Dude has problems.

[thesquanderer]

4. This dog didn't hunt 4 years ago, and won't hunt now. It's not what it sounds like, and no one cared

anyway. The only people who ever paid any attention to this nonsense are the people who would never vote for Bernie anyway and are just looking to try to stir the pot with whatever nonsense they can find.

Your very link shows that those opening lines were just designed to be an attention-grabbing introduction to a pretty boring article. Basically, clickbait. These were not presented as personal fantasies, not presented approvingly, rather just acknowledging their existence. The whole article is at that link for you to see for yourself.

As for your last sentence, if they sold, they were appealing to someone. "Us" would mean some subset of humans, it doesn't mean him personally. Context, man!

[LizBeth]

5. This dog wasn't played four years ago. Many people don't know about it. Hence reaction now that it

is coming out. HRC treated Sanders with kid gloves. Nothing came out four years ago and it will now.

[Cuthbert Allgood]

10. THE VOX ARTICLE IN THE OP IS FROM 2015.

Sweet Jesus. It was played a lot 5 years ago.

But, whatever gets you through the day, I guess.

[LizBeth]

17. No one was paying attention. No one cared. HRC had it from the start and there was no other

consideration. Not a person picked up the Vox article in mainstream.

[RandySF]

7. He wasn't about to become the nominee

Now, imagine it repeated every day on television for months.

[Ferrets are Cool]

14. If Sanders is our nominee, this will be used in ads against him

whether it is true or not. Repugs don't care about truth.

[thesquanderer]

16. WHOEVER our candidate is will be subjected to a barrage of Republican lies. n/t

[mcar]

22. It never got mentioned by the media 4 years ago

Bernie largely got a pass from any kind of vetting.

[thesquanderer]

24. What media are you talking about?

I just searched for a phrase he used in the essay (great, now google will profile me based on THAT search), and looked for where it came up in 2015-2016 to see where this article was discussed back then. Try it yourself. You'll see links in 2015/2016 from:

New York Post
Washington Post
Bloomberg.com
CNN
Salon
Snopes
Politifact
Fox News
Washington Examiner
Telegraph UK
Daily Mail UK
Jezebel
People
Daily Caller
RT.com
Bustle
Brietbart

and numerous other less well known names.

...and these are just newspapers and web sites that actually published the sentence "A man goes home and masturbates his typical fantasy" since that was my search string. Any other reference to this Sanders essay that didn't include that quote would not have come up.

Yeah, it got plenty of play back then. More than it deserved, considering what a NON story it is once you actually see the entire essay and realize how lame the entire accusation is. Well I guess Sanders accomplished his goal, even if decades later than intended... he grabbed people's attention with a sensational few sentences that led to a boring article.

But yeah, in the end, nobody cared then, and nobody will care now. Or more to the point, anyone who cares about it (or says they do) isn't someone who was going to vote for Sanders anyway. I wonder how many more times someone will post about this on DU. Just entirely pointless. (Though maybe the Russians get a few laughs out of it.)

[Nitram]

6. I'm not really sure what Sanders' point was. We can avoid sexual perversion and abuse if

both men and women shed their traditional roles? If so, I think I agree. But I'm not 100% sure that's what he meant. Any ideas?

[Cuthbert Allgood]

11. It's about shedding traditional roles and being honest with the other person in the relationship

Don't be submissive because you think that's what you are supposed to. Don't do it and silently hate it. Don't be an oppressive jackass because you think that is the role you need to play.

[LizBeth]

20. Mama's were to blame keeping their girls from giving it up to boys, causing daughters cancer.

And the old B teachers are the reason boys failed in school

[janterry]

8. I remember the Luke and Laura story line back in the 1980's

for those that don't know or don't remember - it was a storyline from a soap opera and it was HUGE

In the aftermath of the rape, most people were rooting for them to get married (and they did)

[DanTex]

9. LOL. These are *fictional characters*.

It's especially ironic that Tim O'Brien, a member of Bloomberg's campaign, is trying to push this line, given that Bloomberg has actually been accused of sexual harassment multiple times, and has made many offensive comments about women. Not fictional characters, and not 50 years ago.

Nobody actually believes Bernie is somehow anti-woman or whatever the Bloomberg campaign is trying to imply here. Just like someone who writes a murder mystery isn't an actual murderer. Also, Bernie didn't invent the concept of "rape fantasy", there are psychological studies about it, and there's even a wiki page about it.

[Nitram]

13. I don't believe this article proves Bernie is "ant-woman." I do think Sanders is behind the times

and a little old-fashioned when it comes to understanding sexual harassment in the workplace.

[janterry]

18. I agree he's a bit behind the times

but his staff really love him. (I talked to several of them - last year). He has a great reputation up in Burlington among those that have worked with him for years. Also, many of his staffers are young women, he gave them a job to right out of college.

He's clearly in no way sexually abusive to any of them.

I really don't care much for what he wrote back then, but I also don't care about it now. He's lived a long life and never acted improperly towards women (at least not in any substantive way).

FWIW, I view this as a non-issue

[LanternWaste]

21. His fictional characters are only a sign of his strength and how well he's doing!!!

I figured I'd join the lowest common denominators in making unsupported allegations and logical fallacies in order to make myself feel useful...






(there's a wiki page about logical fallacies also... but it might be too inconvenient)

[NurseJackie]

15. Fred Guttenberg is absolutely correct. "Weird. Not normal. Depraved."

Fred Guttenberg ✔
@fred_guttenberg

These rape fantasies from Sanders are troubling, weird, and not normal. I do not care how long ago they were. This came from a depraved mind.

Fred Guttenberg is absolutely correct. "Weird. Not normal. Depraved." That's exactly how I feel. Mr. Guttenberg speaks for me in so many regards.

I'm eager to hear his views on the Bernie's recently revealed comments regarding toddlers.

[Callado119]

19. Sick and disqualifying...

[mcar]

23. Fred Guttenberg has been attacked by BS supporters

for the last several days on Twitter. Really foul, awful attacks on a man whose daughter was murdered.