Warren did best last night contrasting herself with Sanders, wasted time going after Bloomberg

[highplainsdem]

That seems to be the consensus of what I've been hearing and reading.

I believe she'd be doing much better in the polls, maybe still well ahead of Sanders, if she'd gone after him earlier.

She did get a lot of applause last week for going after Bloomberg, and maybe she thought she'd get similar praise for doing the same thing this week.

But if she wants to win, she has to go after Sanders. And after taking a very good shot at him early in the debate, she seemed to lose focus on what she has to do to win the race.

I'm not sure what she's doing. Maybe she thinks she can drive Bloomberg out of the race or turn people off the messages in his ads so much that if he starts running ads against the leftwing Democrats, herself and Sanders, his messaging won't be as effective.

But at this point her attacks on Bloomberg are mostly helping Sanders.

And unless she's completely given up on overtaking Sanders, and is maybe expecting to be asked to be VP or to be in Sanders' cabinet, she should be trying to outdo him, as her main rival.

She really IS a better messenger for those policies, and a more credible candidate, than Sanders is.

I thought it was great when she made that point early on in the debate last night.

Before she turned to attacking Bloomberg, who isn't anywhere close to being the main threat to her candidacy.

[LaurenOlimina]

1. No attack on Bloomberg is wasted.

That man is a pox. He's the communicable disease the Democratic Party has caught after Citizens United lowered our immunity.

[The Mouth]

14. +1

Worst "Democrat" since Andrew Jackson.

Go Liz.

ANYBODY but Bloomie.

[Baclava]

2. I think she is solidifying her position as VP to Bernie, stockpiling delegates for the convention

They will be invincible

[kentuck]

4. You may be right.

[highplainsdem]

5. If Sanders is at the top of the ticket, we lose. Warren won't be able to save that ticket as VP.

Maybe she's calculating that Sanders isn't likely to be able to finish even one term, so she'd become president that way.

But she isn't a good enough debater to get rid of Sanders' baggage, so she's never going to be VP if she's Sanders' running mate.

[still_one]

7. you don't think extolling the virtues of Fidel Castro is a winning strategy?

[highplainsdem]

10. For some odd reason, I think that and a lot of the things Sanders has said and done are problematic.

And if Warren is ever Sanders' running mate, it would be really interesting hearing her try to defend his not supporting his girlfriend and child, leaving them to need welfare (with his girlfriend being turned down when she tried to rent apartments because she was a single mom on welfare), while he was chose to be underemployed and repeatedly ran for governor and Senate for a fringe radical party with no chance of going anywhere (something I saw described as Sanders being a "cosplay revolutionary" ).

[still_one]

11. no kidding. I am not sure if Warren would accept the VP nod from Sanders. By doing that if Sanders

lost in the general election, I think she could very well damage her re-election prospects for Senate

[Baclava]

9. The debates are over, the race could well be over after Super Tues if Bernie sweeps Calif

Then it comes down to the delegate countdown to the convention. Bernies massive crowds will be all the optics needed to get there.

Yeah, she could ride that train as VP, taking the load off Bernie early for all those upcoming rallies in the spring and summer.

[JudyM]

6. Hoping so.

[Mr. Sparkle]

25. She has no chance.

The VP is used to get supporters inwhich the main candidate, has trouble connecting with. Elizabeth brings nothing to the table that's not already there. He will most likely appoint a moderate if he gets the nomination.

[BeyondGeography]

34. She would bring delegates to the table

Plus who better to do the heavy legislative lifting while Bernie stays in rally mode as President?

Not my ideal scenario but it is indeed a scenario.

[thesquanderer]

39. re: "The VP is used to get supporters inwhich the main candidate, has trouble connecting with."

That's not the only strategy. Clinton won with Gore. Bush won with Cheney. These VPs did not really bring in different voting blocs.

[Johonny]

26. She is clearly auditioning for the role of VP at this point. I think she's top of the list now

Sanders, Biden or even Bloomberg would have to consider her.

[Moderateguy]

35. Yeah a 78 year old with heart problems picking a 70 year old for VP

is going to be reassuring.

[Baclava]

37. Liz as VP works for me, she can clearly carry the progressive banner into the convention

[Moderateguy]

38. Are you suggesting two progressives on the ticket?

[thesquanderer]

40. Why not? We've seen two moderates and two conservatives win. (n/t)

[Moderateguy]

41. Moot point anyways as Sanders would never pick Warren

She has one quality that he absolutely hates: she is willing to compromise and work within the system

[thesquanderer]

44. I suspect we'll see him choose a VP with that quality.

First, any of the stronger choices that could help him win will have that quality. Second, compromise *will* be needed. He has compromised before (e.g. he doesn't only vote for bills that are 100% what he wants), but it could actually be beneficial for him to have someone to "delegate" the compromising to. Kind of a good cop, bad cop approach. He pushes strong for what he wants, she works behind the scenes on acceptable compromises, and eventually something reasonable crosses his desk. He's not going to veto something that only gives him "most" of what he wants. But he can maintain his strong less compromising persona.

[Moderateguy]

46. But are his supporters willing to accept...

say, ACA being properly funded vs M4A?

[thesquanderer]

50. Warren and Sanders are both running on a 4 year transition to MFA.

They differ on how they handle those 4 years... and if we're lucky enough to get ANY MFA plan, whatever transition there is will be the product of negotiation, and will probably be neither just what Sanders has talked about NOR what Warren has talked about.

His supporters will be fine with it. Nobody expects any candidate's plans to survive the process without some changes in the details. The general goal is what's important here.

[Baclava]

52. Absolutely, consolidate her plans with his base, easy peasy, rock n roll

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

53. BIIIIIINNGGOOOOO!! AS I'VE BEEN SAYING... GREAT MINDS THINK ALIKE!!

Bernie/Elizabeth or Elizabeth/Bernie 2020!!
Either way, they're stronger together & can't be bought!!
Jump on the Bernie Bandwagon & join The Revolution!!

[Baclava]

55. Let me write that slogan, "Stronger Together!" lol

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

57. You know it... as we ALL are!!

Bernie/Elizabeth or Elizabeth/Bernie 2020!!
Either way, they're stronger together & can't be bought!!
Jump on the Bernie Bandwagon & join The Revolution!!

[kentuck]

3. In my opinion, they are afraid of Bloombergs money on down the road...

...after Super Tuesday. They want to damage him before he buys the election.l

[blm]

13. If anything, Warren's teardowns of Bloomberg boost Biden's numbers

and she has likely figured that out and knows that if she doesn’t win the nom then provide cover for those who you know you can influence.

[JudyM]

8. She is a big picture strategic thinker. She knows Bberg will do the least to root out corruption

on Wall Street and the least to fight against big donor influence in Congress. She knows her chances of winning the nom are minimal, and he is rising in polls. She is running interference for her colleague who most shares her values and goals.

[uponit7771]

12. Why is Bloomberg in the race?! Trump wont debate Warren so Warren gets the stage by herself and

... that's why she's my second.

Very strange what Bloomberg is doing

[BusyBeingBest]

15. Probably he wants to be President. Just like all the others.

[uponit7771]

16. By splitting the moderate vote and getting Sanders in? tia

[BusyBeingBest]

17. Same could be said for all of them who aren't Bernie.

[uponit7771]

19. No, Warren is not splitting the moderate vote and Pete and Amy are low single digits Bloomber

... Bloomberg has bought his way into splitting the moderate vote beyond super Tuesday.

If Sanders gets in it'll be blamed on Bloomberg not the others because of the polling data.

[BusyBeingBest]

23. I know this sounds crazy to you, but there are people who don't prefer Biden.

It's not just all about stopping Bernie, it's about that but also who can stop America from falling off the cliff next November.

[uponit7771]

24. If Bloomberg's swing state numbers were beating Red Don outside of MOE for last 3 months ...

... I'd be on his train quick fast but that's not the facts right now.

Bloomberg has no better chance, per the swing state data, than Sanders of beating Trump

[BusyBeingBest]

27. I'm not putting too much stock in that yet.

Lots of things can happen.

[uponit7771]

28. Of course but waiting on something to happen vs having the data to beat Trump NOW are two different

...things.

I'm not stuck on any candidate I'm stuck on swing state numbers outside of MOE for last 3 months

Since we don't have democratically elected republican presidents any longer we have to hyper focus on swing states.

[BusyBeingBest]

29. The hyper-focus part is one of the reasons why I prefer Mike. Dude's got

both the stellar campaign organization and the money to pull out all the stops in swing states.

[uponit7771]

30. He has to start now not after the convention ... we'll see. Bloomberg should be eating Trumps ...

... lunch in those states, I don't see it in the polling in the last 2 months.

Trump is a static figure and can't run from the punches

[Celerity]

18. Bloomberg may well end up kneecapping Biden far more than any other one factor

save for Biden himself so far. Biden really needs a large large victory in Sc to roll into Sc, but so so many St votes have already been cast that the outcome is partially baked into the cake. We are watching Clyburn endorse Biden on a live stream as I type this. That should really help Joe in SC.

[uponit7771]

20. +1

[honest.abe]

21. Indeed. Attacking Bloomberg doesnt help our cause.

She needs to focus on Sanders.

[pinkstarburst]

43. It's not "our cause"

It is not Warren's job to do all the work for Biden, Bloomberg, Buttigieg, Klobuchar and Steyer.

She's doing what she thinks works best for her. Just like the others.

[honest.abe]

56. "Our cause" meaning bigger picture.. at least for those who see the danger of a Bernie nomination.

Bernie as our nominee could easily result in 4 more years of Trump with House and Senate control. That is a complete disaster for the party and for the country. I think Bloomberg, with his billions, could help avoid that.

[David__77]

22. Maybe she's saying what she thinks.

...

[Watchfoxheadexplodes]

31. Time for her to drop out

No path

[Baclava]

32. 97% of delegates have yet to vote, she's a fighter, she's not going anywhere

[Kaleva]

59. She has no map to the nomination with Sanders blocking every possible path

[Baclava]

61. Like I said a 100 times, she's going for VP at the convention

[Kaleva]

62. She does have a good chance for that.

[pinkstarburst]

45. No reason to drop out

1) She's projected to come in second in California. That should get her a nice number of delegates.

2) She's got pledged delegates. If she drops out she'll be forced to release them. No reason to do so unless someone were to make her an offer to put her on the ticket as VP right now.

[thesquanderer]

47. re: "She's got pledged delegates. If she drops out she'll be forced to release them."

Nobody drops out. They merely "suspend" their campaign. I think this addresses what you're talking about.

[MoonlitKnight]

33. Warren is putting country and party first

She is saving us from a Bloomberg nomination.

I believe she is also saving us from a Sanders nomination. If she drops out Sanders likely pulls away to an insurmountable lead.

It looks like Biden is the beneficiary. With Buttigieg next.

Klobuchar and Steyer need to drop out Saturday night. Especially Klobuchar, who is barely ahead of Gabbard in SC.

[squirecam]

36. Biden needs Amy to win Minnesota.

Nt

[pinkstarburst]

49. I think there's a misconception

that all people who vote for a moderate as their first choice would move to another moderate, and all Warren voters would automatically move over to Sanders were she out of the running. Voters choose their preferred candidates for many reasons. My preferences are:

1. Elizabeth
2. Pete
3. Amy
4. Bernie
5. Joe

I've already sent in my ballot, but if Warren had been named as someone's VP already, then I would have shifted my support to that person (as long as it wasn't Bloomberg) because I would then be supporting Warren. I wouldn't care if it were Bernie or Joe.

[MoonlitKnight]

58. That's pretty much my list

Minus Klobuchar. I can’t go from “yes we can” to “no we can’t “.

[thesquanderer]

42. re: "wasted time going after Bloomberg" - I heard Carville saying that. I think it's wrong.

Carville was saying, "Why knock down Bloomberg? His voters aren't coming to you."

But she was able to show her strength and fighting spirit (and how she could go after Trump)... and if you're going to do that, doesn't it make MORE sense to go after someone whose supporters you won't be getting anyway, rather than viciously go after a candidate whose supporters you may need? Normally, to get ahead, you have to knock other candidates, but not so much that their supporters never want anything to do with you. With Bloomberg, she didn't have to use kid gloves, and we could all see how formidable she can really be.

And as some other posters said, maybe it's also out pf principle (imagine that). Maybe win or lose, she really believes Bloomberg would be the worst candidate we could put up, and wants to help make sure we don't. Not everything has to be about personal gain. As David__77 said in post #22, "maybe she's saying what she thinks." Oe as MoonlitKnight said in post #33, "Warren is putting country and party first. She is saving us from a Bloomberg nomination."

re:

But at this point her attacks on Bloomberg are mostly helping Sanders.

Or maybe they mostly help Biden, where the lion's share of disaffected Bloomberg supporters would be more likely to go.

[Awsi Dooger]

48. Warren is incompetent from a situational standpoint

She's like Trump's best friend up there. I like her policies but have to laugh at what a fool she is in terms of primary math and especially general election math.

And I had several professors like that. She reminds me of them. They get stuck in their little box with window only covering the past few days and the next few days. Then advance a week and they are only capable of advancing a week. Somehow they have zero capability of projecting into the future and what the situational variables will be at that point in time.

Lecturers without instinct. I never received top grades from them because I didn't mind calling them out on it in class. I would win every exchange. Fellow students loved it while the professor paced and stewed. I could do that to Elizabeth Warren also. I'd detail the 46% of Floridians who said Andrew Gillum was too liberal for the state. That's what you are accomplishing, Elizabeth. There's a reason national elections do not cover Massachusetts and Vermont alone.

[booley]

51. You have it backwards

Attacking Bloomberg wasn't a waste.

It reminded us why we liked her in the first place.

Attacking Sanders has only hurt her.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

54. POINT WELL TAKEN!!

Bernie/Elizabeth or Elizabeth/Bernie 2020!!
Either way, they're stronger together & can't be bought!!
Jump on the Bernie Bandwagon & join The Revolution!!

[Kaleva]

60. Being "liked" will not win her any states.

[thesquanderer]

65. In this case "why we liked her" should be read as "why we wanted to vote for her." (n/t)

[totodeinhere]

63. No, all of the other candidates need to go after Bloomberg with all they've got.

In my opinion at least.

[Vivienne235729]

64. It looks like she is jockeying to be VP.