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Gothmog

(145,130 posts)
Wed Feb 26, 2020, 11:48 AM Feb 2020

Even With New Pay-Fors, Bernie's Agenda Still Has A $25 Trillion Hole




Vermont Sen. Bernie Sanders has made some extraordinary promises in his campaign for president, including free health care, a federal jobs guarantee, universal forgiveness of all student debt, and radical expansions of nearly every government program from Social Security to housing subsidies. When asked at a CNN town hall last night how he would pay for this gargantuan expansion of government, Sen. Sanders presented moderator Chris Cuomo with a new document that Sanders claimed detailed how he would pay for his proposals. But don’t be fooled: these numbers still don’t add up, and Sanders should be pressed to explain his magic math at tonight’s debate.

The first problem is that the list of Sanders’ proposed spending increases is incomplete. Sanders has proposed costly plans for K-12 education, expanding disability insurance, paid family leave, and more that were not accounted for in the new document. He also grossly understates the cost of his Medicare for All plan by citing a flawed analysis that neglected to incorporate the costs of specific benefits Sanders proposes, such as universal coverage for long-term services and supports, and failed to account for how offering universal health-care benefits more generous than those offered by any other country on earth would increase utilization of health services.

Sanders and his surrogates regularly claim that critics are wrong to focus on how much Medicare for All increases government costs because it would reduce the total cost of health care. But independent analyses from the Urban Institute and Committee for a Responsible Federal Budget have concluded that even with the aggressive price controls he has proposed, Sanders’ Medicare-for-All framework would actually increase national health expenditures by up to $7 trillion. Sanders himself also admitted in a 60 minutes interview this weekend that his Medicare-for-All plan would likely cost around $30 trillion, yet the list of “options” Sanders has offered to pay for them (options which, it should be noted, he has never explicitly endorsed enacting together) would together cover less than 60 percent of that amount by the Sanders campaign’s own accounting.

In January, the Progressive Policy Institute published comprehensive cost estimates of the proposals offered by each of the leading candidates for president before the Iowa Caucus. After incorporating new proposals that Sanders has released since the publication of our analysis and minor methodological updates, PPI concludes that Sanders has now proposed over $53 trillion of new spending over the next 10 years – an amount that would roughly double the size of the federal government. Our estimate is, if anything, overly charitable to Sanders, as it accepts most of the Sanders campaign’s cost estimates outside of Medicare for All and assumes significant overlap in the costs of his proposed federal jobs guarantee and other spending proposals. Other analysts have estimated the total costs of Sanders’ proposals could be anywhere between $60 trillion and $100 trillion over 10 years. ,,,,

Sanders’ proposed pay-fors don’t even come close to covering these costs. The document Sanders published last night, along with others released earlier in his campaign, claim to collectively raise less than $43 trillion in new revenue – meaning that he’s at least $10 trillion short. But the revenue projections Sanders uses for his tax proposals are well outside the mainstream of what independent analysts at the Committee for a Responsible Federal Budget, Congressional Budget Office, Tax Policy Center, Penn Wharton Budget Model, and others have estimated. After reconciling Sanders’ latest list of pay-fors with these independent estimates, PPI concludes that even if Congress were to adopt every single revenue option Sanders has offered for consideration, it would fall almost $25 trillion short of his proposed spending increases over the next decade – leaving a gap nearly equal to the total value of all goods and services produced by the U.S. economy in one year.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
16 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Even With New Pay-Fors, Bernie's Agenda Still Has A $25 Trillion Hole (Original Post) Gothmog Feb 2020 OP
Math is important squirecam Feb 2020 #1
Sanders says he will create 20 million jobs uninformed people believe him. That's what's important uponit7771 Feb 2020 #2
$25 Trillion is really zero in Revolutionary math dalton99a Feb 2020 #3
lol Cha Feb 2020 #5
This message was self-deleted by its author BlueTillIDie Feb 2020 #13
KR Cha Feb 2020 #4
And that is after low-balling the expenses NCProgressive Feb 2020 #6
This message was self-deleted by its author BlueTillIDie Feb 2020 #7
Welcome to DU. Laelth Feb 2020 #9
This is not the argument Sanders/Warren has been making. squirecam Feb 2020 #11
Nope. It's not. Laelth Feb 2020 #14
Its because Democrats are squirecam Feb 2020 #10
This message was self-deleted by its author BlueTillIDie Feb 2020 #12
And the voters don't seem to care. Laelth Feb 2020 #8
What I read so far of the plan Meowmee Feb 2020 #15
This needs to be condensed and converted into an AD by one of the campaigns Moderateguy Feb 2020 #16
 

squirecam

(2,706 posts)
1. Math is important
Wed Feb 26, 2020, 12:22 PM
Feb 2020

Bernie’s plans still fall short in that department.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

uponit7771

(90,335 posts)
2. Sanders says he will create 20 million jobs uninformed people believe him. That's what's important
Wed Feb 26, 2020, 12:24 PM
Feb 2020
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

dalton99a

(81,451 posts)
3. $25 Trillion is really zero in Revolutionary math
Wed Feb 26, 2020, 12:27 PM
Feb 2020

It's all good


If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

Response to dalton99a (Reply #3)

 

NCProgressive

(1,315 posts)
6. And that is after low-balling the expenses
Wed Feb 26, 2020, 12:32 PM
Feb 2020

The real deficit is probably around $75 trillion

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

Response to Gothmog (Original post)

 

Laelth

(32,017 posts)
9. Welcome to DU.
Wed Feb 26, 2020, 12:38 PM
Feb 2020

You make a good point. They never told us that it would cost $13 trillion to kill a bunch of Iraqis, but we paid for it anyway. If we can spend $13 trillion killing Iraqis, we can spend whatever it takes to insure that all Americans have access to health care.



-Laelth

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

squirecam

(2,706 posts)
11. This is not the argument Sanders/Warren has been making.
Wed Feb 26, 2020, 12:40 PM
Feb 2020

Nt

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Laelth

(32,017 posts)
14. Nope. It's not.
Wed Feb 26, 2020, 12:45 PM
Feb 2020

I think they should.

Cost be damned. The American people deserve universal, taxpayer-funded health care.

The UK has it. Canada has it. Australia has it. New Zealand has it, and we're richer than all of those countries. Why can't we have it?

Barack Obama didn't win with the slogan, "No, we can't." He won by telling the American people, "Yes. We can," and we had better offer the American people what they want, or our party will suffer the consequences.



-Laelth

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

squirecam

(2,706 posts)
10. Its because Democrats are
Wed Feb 26, 2020, 12:39 PM
Feb 2020

The responsible parent. Repubs are the other one.

I like the responsible parent. Sure, both parents could just let you do whatever you wanted. But that doesn’t make for a health child.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

Response to squirecam (Reply #10)

 

Laelth

(32,017 posts)
8. And the voters don't seem to care.
Wed Feb 26, 2020, 12:36 PM
Feb 2020

Are we going to listen to them?

They're just happy that some politician is willing to fight for what they think they deserve ... cost be damned. At this point, it's looking like Bernie will waltz into the convention with an actual majority of pledged delegates.

What are we going to do then?



-Laelth

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Meowmee

(5,164 posts)
15. What I read so far of the plan
Wed Feb 26, 2020, 01:42 PM
Feb 2020

is pretty crazy and unbelievable

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Moderateguy

(945 posts)
16. This needs to be condensed and converted into an AD by one of the campaigns
Wed Feb 26, 2020, 01:55 PM
Feb 2020

The republicans are going to do it in the general anyways

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
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