@PolitiFact rates sanders' latest claim from the #DemDebate "mostly false"

[Gothmog]

Link to tweet

Defending his signature health plan — a single-payer system known "Medicare for All" that would move all Americans to government-funded coverage — Vermont Sen. Bernie Sanders argued that the massive health care expansion would actually save the system hundreds of billions of dollars.

Sanders’ figures come from a study published Feb. 15 in The Lancet, a British medical journal.....

Our ruling
Sanders said a recent study suggested Medicare for All would save $450 billion annually and saves 68,000 lives.

That study does exist. And it cites some evidence. But many of its assumptions are flawed, and experts uniformly told us it overestimates the potential savings. It cherry-picks data in calculating mortality effects.

This statement has some truth, but ignores context that would create a dramatically different impression. We rate it Mostly False.

[groundloop]

1. Aside from the political fighting of the primary we desperately need some form of "MFA"

Bottom line is that countries with "socialized health insurance" or "socialized medicine" have equal or better healthcare outcomes than the US while paying significantly less on a per-capita basis. We absolutely must get away from our profit driven system controlled by huge insurance companies.

[DanTex]

2. So politifact is contradicting a peer reviewed study in Lancet.

How exactly do the people at politifact think they are better qualified than the scientists performing the peer review at one of the leading medical journals?

[Hassin Bin Sober]

4. And why are they saying Bernie Sanders is saying false things when he's quoting a study.

[JudyM]

3. Politico is taking issue with the study, *itself* - acknowledging sanders did *not* misrepresent

the findings. They found some “experts” who are apparently more knowledgeable than the rigorous peer-review that Lancet requires for publication.

Politifact has by this entry, lost its credibility based on:
A) their implication that Sanders spoke falsely, which Politifact’s own writeup shows he did not and
B) it is beyond presumptuous for politifact to purport to judge the validity of a scientific paper based on its own “experts” when the best experts in the world comprise the peer reviewers of Lancet.

[NurseJackie]

5. I'm not at all surprised.

Thank you.

[Cha]

6. KR

[msongs]

7. medicare for all those....who want it. then they can choose dr sanders as their primary nt

[highplainsdem]

8. The study Sanders cited had huge flaws. It didn't take into account long term care costs.

It assumed MFA would be able to pay current Medicare rates across the board. (There are already a lot of doctors and clinics that won't accept Medicare patients.)

And it assumed there would be no greater demand for health care once co-payments are eliminated.

Any one of those would create a flawed study. All three together make the study's findings useless.

[DanTex]

9. Somehow it passed the Lancet peer review despite the protests of random people on the internet!

How could that possibly have happened?

[highplainsdem]

11. Random people on the street?

https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2020/feb/26/bernie-sanders/research-exaggerates-potential-savings/

https://khn.org/news/bernie-sanders-embraces-a-new-study-that-lowers-medicare-for-alls-price-tag-but-skepticism-abounds/

[DanTex]

12. Yeah, all the worlds top experts on healthcare work for politifact. Obviously.

Who does Lancet think they are?

[Cha]

14. Thanks .. I trust your analysis

[dansolo]

21. And don't forget about the administrative costs "savings"

Medicare has low administrative costs because a lot of it is still handled by insurance companies. M4A will not have the same level of administrative costs as Medicare does now. There will probably be some savings, but not nearly as much as is being claimed.

[showblue22]

10. Lancet peer review is no longer as credible as it once was.

https://statmodeling.stat.columbia.edu/2016/01/05/pace-study-and-the-lancet-journal-reputation-is-a-two-way-street/

https://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/908647

https://www.students4bestevidence.net/blog/2018/01/16/peer-review-and-publication-does-not-guarantee-reliable-information/

[DanTex]

13. But politifact "peer review" is?

It's really something the lengths people will go to smear Bernie Sanders.

[maximusveritas]

23. Did you bother reading it? They cite a number of experts who actually study health care policy.

And they point out the numerous biased assumptions made by the authors.
The primary authors of that Lancet study infectious disease and clearly had a bias in mind as they cherry pick evidence to support their predetermined conclusion.
It's really something the lengths people will go to defend Bernie Sanders and his unrealistic policies.

[Gothmog]

15. Joe Biden on sanders not being honest about cost of program

Link to tweet

[peggysue2]

16. How surprising!

Not.

Sanders only came up with his 'more detailed' explanation because he was being hammered by the press. Throwing together a bunch of numbers on the fly is not a good approach. Start digging into the details and Bernie math falls apart. Again.

[Tweedy]

17. Corporate capture do I smell

Not by you, by politifact

We don't need a study to show us that removing profit from our health insurance will save us money.

Every country, everywhere, that has taken on insurance has seen that savings dividend. The Netherlands kept their private insurers, but strictly regulated profit and the industry and saved. The Swiss kept private insurance, but eliminated their profit and saved.

We know this. We have eyes.

No doubt Senator Sanders is short on specifics, but that does not alter quantified experience.

Joe Biden knows this, too. He argued these very things for Obamacare, which has saved our country money despite the GOP efforts to strangle it in its crib.

Anyway, Joe Biden does not have a "no, we can't" plan. Joe Biden has a sturdy detailed plan to make Obamacare even better.

I like Joe's plan, although I like Elizabeth's better. Joe's likely has a much better chance of becoming law in its entirety.

That would be my argument if I were you.

We don't wake up and say "no, we can't."
Never have those words left Joe Biden's mouth either.

[Cha]

18. Thanks Goth

[oasis]

19. Busted!

[Cha]

22. +1

[betsuni]

20. K&R

[Gothmog]

24. Sanders has yet to explain how he'll pay for half of his agenda

Link to tweet