Sanders supporter asks Warren a gotcha question, doesn't go so well

[BeyondGeography]

Last edited Thu Feb 27, 2020, 01:39 AM - Edit history (1)

Link to tweet

[Indykatie]

1. Warren Is Always Quick On Her Feet - Fools and Disrupters Need to Remember That

[blm]

2. Poor guy. He just really believes whatever the campaign tells him to believe.

[LizBeth]

3. Exactly.

[Cha]

13. Oh yeah. I tried to see it but couldn't

hear it that well. Could you please give me a summary? Thank you!

[tishaLA]

72. He asked her about not supporting the candidate with the plurality

of delegates for the nomination, which he thought the candidate deserved.

She said, "you know that was Bernie's position in 2016, right?"

"Not necessarily"

"Oh, no. That was his position." And then she talked about his folks being on the committee that established the rules being the person with 50% +1 and how people can't just decide to change the rules they'd agreed to when they got in the contest.

She ate him alive. .

[Cha]

73. It was Fate.. the Universe will Provide! Thank you

Sanders' supporter! Who should have known that.. "not necessarily" lol.

Mahalo, Tish..Shine the Light!

[ehrnst]

44. I wonder if he got hired after being seen saying this.

[DanTex]

4. The voter was right, of course.

There is no reason why party insiders should choose the candidate as opposed to the voters.

[blm]

6. Sure there is, the same reason Sanders was for it in 2016.

I don’t see why the majority of Dem voters should be pushed aside, do you?

[xmas74]

7. She explained that Sanders was part of this decision in 2016

Everyone entering the race knew the rules. Should we now change them according to whim or sour grapes?

[Cha]

14. Good question, xmas.. TY

[W_HAMILTON]

9. The voter was WRONG.

He was incorrect about Sanders's previous position on the subject -- which is even worse in Sanders's case, given that he wanted superdelegates to ACTUALLY overturn the will of the people given that Hillary actually won the majority of delegates, not just a plurality like is being discussed in these potential 2020 brokered convention scenarios.

Also, "party insiders" would not be choosing the candidates. If a candidate only receives a plurality of the delegates, that means the majority of voters did not vote for them. Would they be "overturning the will of the people" by selecting a candidate who the majority of voters did not vote for?

And, as I have already discussed with you at least once before, Sanders wrote these rules (as Warren correctly pointed out) -- he has to abide by them. If he wanted the nominee to be the candidate with a simple plurality of delegates and not the one with majority support, he should have fought for that, but he didn't. He signed off on these rules and now he wants to change them because he might not win with them -- gee, surprising given his hypocritical multiple stances on the subject (once again, something Warren correctly pointed out).

[TwilightZone]

11. Sanders tried to get the superdelegates to switch in 2016.

After losing the primary handily and losing Dems 2:1.

That was after spending the entire campaign whining that they shouldn't be involved in the process or overturn the intent of the voters.

He couldn't possibly be more of a hypocrite on this issue.

[Cha]

74. Thanks for paying attention

to all that and explaining it.

[LiberalFighter]

15. Those insiders as you call them...

are Democratic members of Congress, ex Democratic leaders, every state party chair and vice chair, and then the members elected at state conventions by state delegates. Those state party chairs and vice chairs are also elected.

If you don't want them to have a say in the process then don't expect them to provide their full support of the nominee.

It is not the voters that vote for the nominee. It is the elected state delegates voting for national delegates that vote for the nominee.

[mcar]

24. So, Bernie doesn't want to follow the rules he wrote?

[DanTex]

25. Umm, Bernie didn't write the rules. The DNC did.

And nobody is saying that the rules shouldn't be followed. Just that the people in charge of carrying out the rules should respect the will of the voters.

[xmas74]

34. But he agreed to the rules.

They were written in 2016. He had a seat at the table. He approved them.

[DanTex]

36. Sure. Everyone has. But that doesn't make them any less anti-democratic.

The question is, if it goes to a second ballot, will the delegates in charged of carrying out the rules respect the will of the voters, rather than of party insiders.

The rules don't require them to. But it would still be a good idea to act in a democratic way.

[xmas74]

65. In 2016 a candidate tried to bypass the popular vote

And get the super delegates to flip. Now that candidate worries about it in 2020? Come on.

This is a load of excuses-and bad ones at that.

[Hermit-The-Prog]

38. Headline: This time, Bernie Sanders 'rigged' the system against himself

This time, Bernie Sanders 'rigged' the system against himself

Analysis: As the Democratic front-runner claims a plurality should give him the nomination, his own actions come back to haunt him.

CHARLESTON, S.C. — There's nothing Bernie Sanders hates more than a "rigged" system — especially if he rigged it for his own benefit and then watched his handiwork backfire.

Sanders and his allies want Democrats to ignore the rules he helped rewrite and coronate him at the party's convention this summer if he arrives with a plurality — but not a majority — of the delegates. Even though Sanders has long been wary of the role party leaders can play in hand-picking a nominee, his position now is a reversal from the one he took in 2016, when he looked to so-called superdelegates to overcome Hillary Clinton's lead in regular delegates at the end of their primary race.

The risk for Sanders is that voters might begin to believe his definition of a "rigged" system has nothing to do with fairness and everything to do with whether he wins or loses. If they determine that's true when it comes to party rules, they might also start to question whether he's the right messenger to take on the economic and political systems he says are "rigged" against ordinary Americans.

[ ... ]

[awesomerwb1]

54. LOL LOL

[Bucky]

48. He was ready with the "Bernie won 22 states" line

Ignoring that 22 states is not a majority out of 50 states and that we vote by delegate, not by state.

I hope he doesn't go home and complain about the lack of discussion of issues instead of horse race dynamics

[Bettie]

52. Last time around

Clinton came with with more delegates and he wanted the party insiders to choose him instead.

No matter what the result of the election, the current rules were agreed to by everyone. HE asked for these rules.

[Gothmog]

58. Why is #PrimaryWarren trending?

Link to tweet

[Happy Hoosier]

67. Soooo..... fuck the rules?

The rules are pretty clear and they apply to everyone.

[rockfordfile]

5. I think that guy was a right-winger

[Afromania]

8. I think you're right. His whole demeanor came across like one.

[DURHAM D]

18. Nope -

Link to tweet

[TlalocW]

20. Get on the bus, son

Cuz Elizabeth's taking you to school.

TlalocW

[Warpy]

21. She certainly did

but I think he's a right wing plant, too. A Sanders supporter worthy of the name would know about the rules that were changed in `2016.

[xmas74]

35. There are supporters on this thread

Who are convinced that Bernie didn't know about the rules.

[Bucky]

49. Yep, that's why he's a Bernie Bro & not a Sanders supporter

I don't know why anyone would argue against requiring a majority of delegates.

[RhodeIslandOne]

66. He looks like Eric Trump

And might be the same type who as soon as Bernie gets nominated will suddenly drop the mask and support Rump.

[betsuni]

10. Bernie wrote the damn rules!

[BeyondGeography]

12. Lol

[Cha]

16. lol

[R B Garr]

17. LOL!

[Gothmog]

56. sanders supporters are mad at Warren

Link to tweet

[mtron32]

76. But they aren't...

At least not this one. I'm cynical, all this shit is a political game at this point. Warren ran to the center too fast and now she's stuck trying to walk the line between her values and the vanilla moderate lane. She has to stab Sander gently a few dozen times so she can still depend on his supporters if he should fall. I respect that and would happily slide over to her.

I'm just sad Warren decided to bow out last time, she would have easily ended Hillary and Trump, now she has to play this game.

[mahina]

19. Oh man. He though he had her by the tail.

He brought a moldy bologna sandwich to Top Chef. Nope.

[nilram]

22. Here's one with better audio...

Link to tweet

?s=20

[NurseJackie]

47. Bababooey Bro is a total schmuck!

His gotcha question totally backfired on his sorry ass!

[Hav]

23. Poor bro, got schooled by Warren. Feel that burn

Perfect illustration of the double standard of the BS followers.

[C_U_L8R]

26. Hey Bros. That's not how it works. That's not how any of this works.

[Walleye]

27. I don't think they can change the rules of the electoral college.

What would they do if Bernie got the most votes in the GE but lost the EC?

[Bucky]

50. I'd take to the fucking streets

I'm assuming our candidate this time around won't be so following as to mostly ignore the Great Lakes states

[JudyM]

28. I like her. But she lied. I had to turn off the town hall.

He had to work within the system as it then existed, which involved attracting superdelegates to your side. He was working with a status quo-skewed system.

He never wanted superdelegates to be able to overturn the popular vote. Period. He was just trying to balance the superdelegate influence on the other side. As soon as folks regrouped to hammer out revisions to the rules, he argued against superdelegate influence. Having them wait to vote until the second round was the most the party leaders would give him. Her suggestion that he is not wanting to play by rules he created is a damned lie. “Damned” because it’s an attack on his character, his integrity, not just an innocent misstatement. Notice how carefully she walks around the issue of him creating the rule. She knows she’s lying.

[BeyondGeography]

29. Oh sure, you like her

And Bernie Sanders never openly fantasized about getting superdelegates to anoint him in 2016.

[JudyM]

31. That's not the issue, though... he was working within the system as it existed. And he fought

against that when everyone regrouped after the election. He has consistently held the position that superdelegates shouldn’t supplant the popular vote.

[BeyondGeography]

32. Except when he thinks they can?

Yeah, run with that.

Btw, is calling EW a damn liar the latest form of bridge building in Bernie World? Are the snake emojis flying again?

[JudyM]

33. Nope I really like Warren but my main issue is corruption and integrity is a large factor in that.

[ehrnst]

51. When told that his convention superdelegate push would defy history and the will of the voters...

And even as Clinton secured the Democratic nomination the following week, Sanders continued to push for superdelegates to vote to override Clinton’s pledged delegate majority.

Told on June 7, 2016, that his superdelegate convention push would defy history and the will of the voters, Sanders said, “Defying history is what this campaign has been about.”

Bernie Sanders pushed for a contested convention in 2016. Now he wants to avoid one

So there's that.

[JudyM]

68. I will say I cannot agree

but that is all I’ll say, because of rules.

[ehrnst]

45. "Told on June 7, 2016, that his superdelegate convention push would defy history and the

and the will of the voters, Sanders said, “Defying history is what this campaign has been about.”

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2020/02/20/bernie-sanders-pushed-contested-convention-2016-now-he-wants-avoid-one/

[JudyM]

69. .

I responded to you about this in another post. Sorry I can’t say more.

[ehrnst]

70. Yes, there really isn't much to say after that, is there?

Right there in his own words.

[JudyM]

75. Um. No.

Not going to get roped in to it, sorry to disappoint you, ehrnst.

[Gothmog]

59. Bros are trending #PrimaryWarren because Liz exposed Bernie's hypocrisy.

Link to tweet

[blm]

62. Neither does she, but, she'll stick to the rules.

[dalton99a]

30. Beautiful.

[Billsmile]

37. Some Additional Stuff

In 2016 Sanders did want the superdelegates serve their purpose, to do their job, & choose "the best, strongest, candidate to defeat Trump." It's also clear that he'd rather not have superdelegates at all.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/video/politics/bernie-sanders-wanted-superdelegates-to-overrule-voters-in-2016-now-hes-changed-his-mind/2020/02/20/bcbd7abe-db4f-4df0-a661-60c66fb52900_video.html?fbclid=IwAR0w9Br-dg4FtHUDEHiCSDG_BEHEbMftiW74cpwhGkuWfj3rwZlGjLx-QvE

Keep in mind that, in May of 2016, polls showed Sanders outperforming Clinton in matchups against Trump.

https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2016/may/29/bernie-sanders/bernie-sanders-says-he-polls-better-against-donald/?fbclid=IwAR0GLjZRPPLh4H22bYSm2odle0bywLeNCgXnqXj_c5cWbOT7dLZ5JBdnDew

[Sparkly]

39. "polls showed Sanders outperforming Clinton"

I don't want to fight the last election again, but this pertains to THIS election, as well. Until there is a nominee, nobody has faced the full onslaught of the general election opposition.

The game is to knock the strongest candidate out early. For the candidate perceived as the weakest, the mud is held back in hopes they will be nominated, at which point it's thrown full force. (Does anyone else remember the W campaign saying, "Oh we sure would hate to have to run against John Edwards?!&quot

We do not know what they have on Bernie and we won't until/unless he is nominated. But just like the polls you are referring to from 2016, the polls now in head-to-head matchups mean nothing. Some candidates have already taken fire, others haven't been touched, and Bernie in fact has had outside support.

So let's stop comparing polls from primaries, including this one. Okay?

[HarlanPepper]

41. +1. The talking points hamster wheel has been in overdrive

[Bucky]

57. Actually, we know exactly what they have on Bernie

He's been thoroughly vetted and trashed in the public eye. We know the dirt will involve the *gasp* three houses he owns, that one silly article he wrote in the 70s about sex, and whatever else has been dug up on him.

We also kind of know what they would trot out about Bloomberg or Warren to discourage minority voters.

If we nominate Biden they'll talk about Hunter and his messy personal life nonstop--something no Democrat has had the indecency to do. If we end up with Buttigieg, Franklin Graham will hammer at the gay thing so relentlessly I can guarantee there'll be an uptick in homophobic violence in the fall--they'll get people killed and they won't care cause that's the monster were fighting.

So I don't care about Republican smears. They'll do them and they won't care about the truth. I refuse to let the sick fantasies of psychotic fools dictate my course of actions.

[ehrnst]

43. "In 2016 Sanders did want the superdelegates serve their purpose,"

Here's some 'more info" for you:

And even as Clinton secured the Democratic nomination the following week, Sanders continued to push for superdelegates to vote to override Clinton’s pledged delegate majority.

Told on June 7, 2016, that his superdelegate convention push would defy history and the will of the voters, Sanders said, “Defying history is what this campaign has been about.”

Bernie Sanders pushed for a contested convention in 2016. Now he wants to avoid one

Is that what you think the purpose of the superdelegates is?

[blm]

46. No GOP group targeted Sanders. RNC never opened their op research book

on Sanders which Eichenwald, who saw the book, reported it is 2 feet high.

Clinton was targeted for 30 years by GOP operatives.

[Gothmog]

60. I saw sanders and his delegates try to pull this stunt at the National Convention

I was at the Texas delegation breakfast when a group of sanders delegates marched in and demanded that we condemn Clinton and change our votes to sanders.

sanders spoke to the Texas delegation the next morning and his speech was again solely about himself. There was a mini-riot due to his delegates the prior morning and the only thing that sanders talked about was himself. sanders did nothing to deal with the fact that his delegates were out of control and did nothing to try to help Hillary Clinton win the general election.

[HarlanPepper]

40. One of my favorite moments of the campaign was watching her sit this guy down.

And they called Maggie Thatcher the Iron Lady. We’ve got one of our own only unlike Thatcher her politics are right.

[blm]

61. ✔️

[ehrnst]

42. You won't catch her sleeping!

[Funtatlaguy]

53. She's so smart. But, just as with Hillary, we don't value her enuf. Sigh.

[Gothmog]

55. #PrimaryWarren was trending on twitter earlier today

Link to tweet

[ehrnst]

71. Because of course it is.

[wyldwolf]

63. Bernie bros are low information voters

[Cha]

78. ..

[wyldwolf]

79. Seriously, just last night one told me he was a policy wonk!

He thought it meant he had a passion for certain ideas. LOL.

[Blue_Tires]

64. Berners fold when stood up to...

[Gothmog]

77. Warren calling Bernie Sanders a massive failure. Fails to get things passed, fails to stop things h

Link to tweet