Democratic Primaries
Related: About this forumAnd this is how you destroy a party
Interviews with dozens of Democratic Party officials, including 93 superdelegates, found overwhelming opposition to handing Mr. Sanders the nomination if he fell short of a majority of delegates.
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/02/27/us/politics/democratic-superdelegates.html?action=click&module=Top
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
TwilightZone
(25,423 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
JudyM
(29,181 posts)the voting populace. Parallel to the way the electoral college hurts Dems.
One person one vote.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
TwilightZone
(25,423 posts)If he had a problem with the rules for 2020 that he was involved in changing, he shouldn't have readily agreed to them by running as a Democrat. His entire stance on the issue vs. 2016 is the peak of hypocrisy.
https://www.npr.org/2016/05/19/478705022/sanders-campaign-now-says-superdelegates-are-key-to-winning-nomination
https://www.newsweek.com/elizabeth-warren-bernie-sanders-democratic-nomination-1489428
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
JudyM
(29,181 posts)The system had superdelegates in force so of course you work with what youve got. As soon as everyone regrouped after the election Sanders worked hard to try to get rid of the superdelegates so that the popular vote would actually matter more than the preferences of those with an interest in the status quo.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
PAMod
(906 posts)Even without superdelegates, the leader after the primaries would need to pick up delegates on subsequent ballots that had previously been assigned to other candidates from the voting.
How is that any different/better?
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
JudyM
(29,181 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
PAMod
(906 posts)...and now they might be voting for the candidate they voted against.
The right answer is its not better, at all.
Bottom line - either somebody wins on the first ballot, or the primaries failed to choose a candidate.
And it doesnt matter who the leader is.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
JudyM
(29,181 posts)Only delegates are sent by voters, superdelegates arent.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
PAMod
(906 posts)at the convention.
NOT to vote for a different candidate.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
JudyM
(29,181 posts)Im going to bow out of this, with all due respect.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Response to TwilightZone (Reply #1)
BlueTillIDie This message was self-deleted by its author.
TwilightZone
(25,423 posts)Sorry, but Sanders could not possibly be more hypocritical on this issue. Intentional ignorance doesn't change that fact.
https://www.npr.org/2016/05/19/478705022/sanders-campaign-now-says-superdelegates-are-key-to-winning-nomination
https://www.newsweek.com/elizabeth-warren-bernie-sanders-democratic-nomination-1489428
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Response to TwilightZone (Reply #37)
BlueTillIDie This message was self-deleted by its author.
ehrnst
(32,640 posts)the candidate who clearly got far more pledged delegates would be disrespecting the will of the people?
Good think that the Superdelegates have never done that, isn't it?
You know Bernie was a Superdelegate, right?
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
ehrnst
(32,640 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Tom Rinaldo
(22,911 posts)They represent a compromise of sorts between those who wanted them to differ in contradictory directions. They now are what we are playing by, OK.
It's not the rules, it is the mind set of many leaders of our Party. It is the implications of the phrase "Overwhelming opposition". Let's not play games. What is being talked about here isn't simply an intellectual defense of "playing by the rules", it is a "Stop Bernie" movement.
I'm not in any way pretending to speak for all Bernie supporters when I say the following but; if Bernie comes into the convention with 38% of the pledged delegates and Biden comes in with 34% of the pledged delegates, that's one thing. If Bernie arrives with 46% of the pledged delegates and the next nearest contender comes in with 31%, that's a completely different animal. I don't expect Super Delegates to exactly mirror the sentiments of actual voters in the Democratic primaries, but I don't expect to them to simply throw those results onto a rubbish heap and vote dramatically in a direction opposite to that taken by rank and file Democrats voting in our primaries either.
THAT would be what would tear our Party apart.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
LonePirate
(13,407 posts)You seem to have no clue how dangerous it will be for party insiders to anoint someone other than the clear plurailty leader going into the convention.
About the same acceptable convention alternative would be if the candidates in second and third place team to form a President/Vice President ticket that has more delegates together than the first place candidate. Otherwise, the party will burn down and 45 will romp in November.
Overturning the voice of the people in a democracy is never a good idea.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
TwilightZone
(25,423 posts)As for "party insiders", if you're talking about the SDs, they may not even be needed to attain a majority. If Sanders comes in with, say, 30% (or 35% or 40% or whatever short of a majority) of the vote and the delegates of the other candidates coalesce behind one candidate, there's your majority. No SDs required.
That's the problem with burning bridges. You might need to cross them at a later date.
"Overturning the voice of the people in a democracy is never a good idea."
If the majority support another candidate at the convention, that is the very definition of the will of the people. Are you seriously asserting that if 70% of the delegates agree to rally behind one candidate that that's overturning the voice of the people?
That's laughable. Telling people their votes automatically go to the guy with 30%, regardless of their wishes, is about as un-Democratic as it gets.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Evergreen Emerald
(13,069 posts)Too bad they did not do that with Trump.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
OliverQ
(3,363 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
jimfields33
(15,667 posts)Bernie just keep working for the people.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
TCJ70
(4,387 posts)...then it should go to whoever is.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Response to TCJ70 (Reply #4)
BlueTillIDie This message was self-deleted by its author.
ehrnst
(32,640 posts)to usurp the will of the people!
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Happy Hoosier
(7,209 posts)In a brokered convention, he is not fit to lead the party.
When Sanders entered the race, I knew it would split the party.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
NurseJackie
(42,862 posts)How long until Jill Stein tries to stick her nose in the tent?
One cold night, as an Arab sat in his tent, a camel gently thrust his nose under the flap and looked in. "Master," he said, "let me put my nose in your tent. It's cold and stormy out here." "By all means," said the Arab, "and welcome" as he turned over and went to sleep.
A little later the Arab awoke to find that the camel had not only put his nose in the tent but his head and neck also. The camel, who had been turning his head from side to side, said, "I will take but little more room if I place my forelegs within the tent. It is difficult standing out here." "Yes, you may put your forelegs within," said the Arab, moving a little to make room, for the tent was small.
Finally, the camel said, "May I not stand wholly inside? I keep the tent open by standing as I do." "Yes, yes," said the Arab. "Come wholly inside. Perhaps it will be better for both of us." So the camel crowded in. The Arab with difficulty in the crowded quarters again went to sleep. When he woke up the next time, he was outside in the cold and the camel had the tent to himself.
Author unknown
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
apcalc
(4,462 posts)time at age 74 and 78, after serving 30 years or so.
Without any longtime party friends, without much of a record.
Motivation?
I wonder all the time.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Happy Hoosier
(7,209 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Fresh_Start
(11,330 posts)nt
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Response to Happy Hoosier (Reply #5)
BlueTillIDie This message was self-deleted by its author.
Happy Hoosier
(7,209 posts)A party convention is not a one-off election.
The convention is where we pick who will be our banner bearer. We need a candidate that can convince a majority of delegates that they will unite and represent the party well. If a candidate cannot convince a majority of even our own party to support him in such a situation, how will he lead and unite the party? Answer: He cannot. So let's see if Sen. Sanders can be a leader and uniter, or if he just likes preaching to the choir.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Response to Happy Hoosier (Reply #53)
BlueTillIDie This message was self-deleted by its author.
AverageJoe
(2,292 posts)In the long run, its not that Sanderss supporters would be angry because was denied the nomination, even with the most delegates. Its that Sanders supporters would be given a strong message that their votes and support for the party dont matter. People can talk about all the rules they want, or suggest Sanderss supporters just need to suck it up and move on, but thats missing what is starting to look like the arc of history.
After the way things went last time, I see such a move as suicidal.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
ehrnst
(32,640 posts)un-democratic?
What would you call a candidate who asks superdelegates to do that, even if another candidate has a very clear, wide lead over them?
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
ehrnst
(32,640 posts)So there's that.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
WhereAmerica
(23 posts)Poll after poll has shown that a substantial -- in some cases, an overwhelming -- majority of voters don't want a socialist. Period.
Sanders will lose in a landslide, especially after the Trump/Russian machine makes his socialism front and center, in ways that will scare everyone over 45 and some below. It will be a bloodbath.
If the Democratic Party needs to find a nominee that most Democrats prefer, in order to save the party, democracy and the rule of law, then so be it.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
CentralMass
(15,265 posts)Even in Florida where he has a small 0.3 point advantage.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
redstateblues
(10,565 posts)We would most likely lose the House as well as the White House
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Response to WhereAmerica (Reply #6)
BlueTillIDie This message was self-deleted by its author.
Autumn
(44,962 posts)Are they all wrong?
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Response to Autumn (Reply #55)
BlueTillIDie This message was self-deleted by its author.
ehrnst
(32,640 posts)Hmm...
https://www.commoncause.org/press-release/common-cause-files-complaint-against-pro-bernie-sanders-group-our-revolution-for-violating-soft-money-ban/
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Autumn
(44,962 posts)They should relax and have a glass of wine before they panic. Personally I would think any party would be stupid to not rally behind the front runner.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Demsrule86
(68,454 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Autumn
(44,962 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Demsrule86
(68,454 posts)Closed primaries.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
TwilightZone
(25,423 posts)"if he fell short of a majority of delegates"
It's right there in the sub-heading in the event that you didn't bother to read the article.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Autumn
(44,962 posts)that was in the header of MY response to the OP that you didn't bother to read to
this part of the
Reading and words and stuff. Yeah sometimes it's hard.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Happy Hoosier
(7,209 posts)And he should. But if it just a plurality, he has more work to do.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
treestar
(82,383 posts)They haven't won the nomination.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
SidDithers
(44,228 posts)Sid
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
redstateblues
(10,565 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Demsrule86
(68,454 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
bucolic_frolic
(43,025 posts)We are going to lose
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
zackymilly
(2,375 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Squinch
(50,901 posts)IT WAS BERNIE'S IDEA!!!!
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
DanTex
(20,709 posts)The DNC wrote the rules, not Bernie. Bernie was in favor of getting rid of superdelegates.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Squinch
(50,901 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
DanTex
(20,709 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
This was one of his bones of contention going into the convention. In order to unite the party rather than, I don't know, having people boo the Democrat in a race in which we were running against the most corrupt person ever to run for or hold the office of president, they gave him everything he asked for. Both with respect to superdelegates and the rules on plurality candidates.
There is also the point that he knew these were the rules going in. If he wanted them changed - AGAIN - he could have mentioned it then.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
DanTex
(20,709 posts)Because Bernie didn't write the rules.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Squinch
(50,901 posts)had the Democrats over a barrel. They wanted to give him what he wanted so he would control his supporters in the convention.
Fat lot of good it did.
But your hair-splitting is noted, as is the fact that it shows you know how weak your argument is.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
DanTex
(20,709 posts)The DNC refused, and instead there was a compromise made so supers wouldn't vote on the first ballot. But to say Bernie and his supporters wanted this is outright false.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Squinch
(50,901 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
DanTex
(20,709 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
PunkinPi
(4,874 posts)If he didn't like the rules, he didn't have to run.
Listen to Liz here -->
Link to tweet
(not my tweet, using for video)
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
DanTex
(20,709 posts)The rules, with superdelegates, are anti-democratic and favor insiders over voters, which is a shame. Hopefully the people in charge of carrying out those rules will decide to respect the will of the electorate.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
TwilightZone
(25,423 posts)He just doesn't care.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
TwilightZone
(25,423 posts)https://www.newsweek.com/elizabeth-warren-bernie-sanders-democratic-nomination-1489428
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
DanTex
(20,709 posts)Bernie's always been against having superdelegates be part of the process, because they are undemocratic. Let the people decide. I have no idea why anyone would disagree with that.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
boston bean
(36,217 posts)So, he handed them even more power on the second round. Where any delegate can vote how they want.
He made the bed now he must lay in it.
I like it much better when ALL had a vote on the first round.
If Bernie does not have the delegates needed to prevent a second round, then hes got to live by the rules he pushed for and agreed to.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
DanTex
(20,709 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
boston bean
(36,217 posts)It doesnt matter what you say about it even if it were true, which it is not.
He wanted on the dem ballot. He agreed to the rules.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
DanTex
(20,709 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
boston bean
(36,217 posts)It does not matter what you think he wants.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
mr_lebowski
(33,643 posts)The clear implication from such verbiage is that you're arguing the person got exactly what they asked for.
Bernie asked for NO super delegates.
There are super delegates.
There's no 'thinking (about) what Bernie wanted' involved here. We KNOW what he wanted.
He did not get exactly what he asked for, he compromised and got some of what he wanted.
Ergo, saying he 'wrote' or 'demanded' (and received) the rules to be as they are is logically disingenuous.
Period.
That said, the fact that he had input into and agreed to them (and should now live with them) is a separate ... and valid ... point.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
boston bean
(36,217 posts)And he got what he wanted.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Oh sweet poetic justice He is now asking for the same thing Hillary asked for in 2016 and what he railed against in 2016. His supporters were behind him when he made his pitch to the DNC and they are behind him now when he opposes. The height of hypocrisy but, I do not expect better from the my way or the highway crowd.
So he griped about superdelegates and the "Democratic establishment" in 2016, triggered a rule change, agreed with the compromise solution and now is griping about the solution he helped to create. Why does Bernie seem to have problems with order and rules? These rules were in place before he entered the 2020 race, and similar to 2016 he's now going to cause friction over the process that IS ALREADY IN PLACE because it does not suit what he now believes will be his position at the convention. I'm tired of the divisiveness and I hope the electorate sees the most common denominator.
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2018/aug/25/democrats-rules-superdelegates-sanders
All sides went home feeling at happy with the solution (full stop)? Nope. One side now sees a disadvantage for said side with the new rules. So here we go again... Griping about superdelegates and the "Democratic establishment".
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
honest.abe
(8,609 posts)Period.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Eric J in MN
(35,619 posts)NT
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
honest.abe
(8,609 posts)If he cant get majority delegates and he cant get majority Supers then he shouldn't be our nominee.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Eric J in MN
(35,619 posts)...not corporate lobbyists who were given the title of Super Delegate.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
honest.abe
(8,609 posts)They come form all sorts of backgrounds such as former presidents, congressional leaders, mayors, labor leaders, longtime local party functionaries and prominent fund-raisers. They were put in place for just such a scenario as may play out this year where a candidate has a plurality of delegates but the majority want someone else. The supers can help give the nomination to the candidate that most represents the majority Democratic voters.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
sheshe2
(83,625 posts)69. Convince the voters in elections
...not corporate lobbyists who were given the title of Super Delegate.
You do realize that Bernie was and is a super delegate, correct? I hardly think he is a corporate lobbyist anymore than Warren is.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
TwilightZone
(25,423 posts)He can't be a victim of something he helped write and then agreed to.
Besides, he was perfectly fine trying to get the SDs to overturn the will of the voters in 2016. Were you OK with it then?
Always a victim, poor Bernie.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Eric J in MN
(35,619 posts)...who voted for Hillary Clinton and lost food stamps under Trump cant be Trumps victim because he or she participated.
Bernie Sanders appointees to the Unity Reform Commission wanted to eliminate Super Delegates but they were outvoted.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
boston bean
(36,217 posts)We dont change them in the middle of the race.
If he doesnt have enough delegates on the first round. He lives with the result of the second round. Period end of story.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Squinch
(50,901 posts)It just gets too ridiculous.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Eric J in MN
(35,619 posts)...Unity Reform Commission wanted to get rid of Super Delegates. They were outvoted.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Squinch
(50,901 posts)conventions in the future and to remove Superdelegates from the first round of voting.
So yes, they didn't take dictation. They held on to one thing, namely superdelegate participation in successive rounds. They did not concede that to a person who by that point had already left the party and declared himself, once again, Independent.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
showblue22
(1,026 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Squinch
(50,901 posts)McGovern debacle.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Response to honest.abe (Reply #21)
BlueTillIDie This message was self-deleted by its author.
honest.abe
(8,609 posts)They come form all sorts of backgrounds such as former presidents, congressional leaders, mayors, labor leaders, longtime local party functionaries and yes prominent fund-raisers. They were put in place for just such a scenario as may play out this year where a candidate has a plurality of delegates but the majority want someone else. The supers can help give the nomination to the candidate that most represents the majority Democratic voters.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Squinch
(50,901 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
George II
(67,782 posts)....prior to announcing their candidacy.
Why change the rules now?
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Sloumeau
(2,657 posts)that they want to make sure that the nominee does not end up causing them to lose their seats.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
MrsCoffee
(5,801 posts)Since all he does is trash the party and sow division.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
beastie boy
(9,227 posts)Every Democrat, whether they support or oppose Bernie, is aware of it. Some welcome it, others oppose it.
This is the definition of democracy. Hate to be pessimistic about it, but the party risk destruction either way. The majority will decide how the party will be destroyed.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
redstateblues
(10,565 posts)The minute Bernie is nominated.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
HarlanPepper
(2,042 posts)Bernie brings another 4 years of Dump.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
uponit7771
(90,301 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Response to AverageJoe (Original post)
democratisphere This message was self-deleted by its author.
Skidmore
(37,364 posts)"...if he fell short of delegates" means he lost. Period. What is hard to understand about that? They cast their votes for the winner.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
redqueen
(115,101 posts)Avoiding a brokered convention is now Job 1.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
I don't know why people think a brokered convention and giving the nomination to the people's second choice instead of their first choice will somehow motivate people to come out in droves for the down ticket races - or the top race.
I'm hard pressed to think of a shittier Get Out The Vote slogan than "Your Vote Doesn't Really Matter to Us."
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
redqueen
(115,101 posts)Seems like a sure fire way to depress turnout.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
OliverQ
(3,363 posts)and guarantee a Trump win. Massive amounts of people will refuse to vote again if this happens.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
redstateblues
(10,565 posts)Candidates are already putting distance between themselves and Bernie. FL is probably already gone.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
OliverQ
(3,363 posts)and you all need to stop with this defeatism.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
redstateblues
(10,565 posts)It would help if Bernie would stop bashing the Democratic Party. He is a very divisive candidate
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
PAMod
(906 posts)if no one gets to 1,991 on the first ballot.
Its really as simple as that.
Subsequent ballots will be where everyone will have to work together to name a nominee.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Response to AverageJoe (Original post)
democratisphere This message was self-deleted by its author.
wyldwolf
(43,867 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
PubliusEnigma
(1,583 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
polichick
(37,152 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Apollo Zeus
(251 posts)We knew the superdelegate issue but letting Bloomberg in is the bigger mistake IMHO because it keeps ALL the non-Bernie options fighting each other.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
BusyBeingBest
(8,052 posts)understanding how it works? I just assumed he would do that, since he would prefer Joe.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Aaron Pereira
(383 posts)People were angry about that comment but taking them on will be required to win the nomination.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Hekate
(90,519 posts)Plus, the party he may destroy is not really his party, as he tells us repeatedly. It's like he's the stepson who keeps saying "You're not my mom," but shows up for meals nonetheless.
What to do with such a person?
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden