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Joe BidenCongratulations to our presumptive Democratic nominee, Joe Biden!

Thu Feb 27, 2020, 02:42 PM

 

Gave some Sanders supporters a civics lesson today....

A few of us from the a local democratic organization helped out with a voter registration effort at a community college. It was three of us and about 16 college students (mostly ardent Sanders fans).

This is what I learned about what Sanders is going to do as President:

1. Issue an executive order making college free for all.
2. Issue another executive order forgiving all student loan debt.
3. Issue a third executive order changing the tax rate for billionaires to 90% AND reduce taxes to almost nothing for everyone else.

Needless to say what followed was a quick 20 min civics lesson on the distribution of powers. They were beyond shocked that he would need BOTH houses of congress to get any of this done. Furthermore, he would need to compromise to get the relevant bills passed and enacted into law-- the compromise might not look like anything resembling what his intentions were. And more importantly if there was no compromise from all sides NOTHING would change.

What bothered me the most was the shock and disappointment that most of these student felt. It was almost like a "Santa Claus isn't real" moment. A couple of student even articulated why bother voting then?

My take-away from this:

1. It seems a lot of people are caught up in the Sanders hype and have no idea how our government functions.
2. Even if Sanders were to become President- we would lose these young people starting 2022 when Sanders can't wave a magic wand and make all their wishes come true.
3. How this is like some Trump voters who were promised something that never materialized.

This has me worried for our future. It seems that there will be a significant percentage of the electorate that will get disappointed/disillusioned and stop participating in our political process.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Reply Gave some Sanders supporters a civics lesson today.... (Original post)
Moderateguy Feb 2020 OP
NurseJackie Feb 2020 #1
Squinch Feb 2020 #2
RandiFan1290 Feb 2020 #3
Cha Feb 2020 #49
frazzled Feb 2020 #4
Moderateguy Feb 2020 #17
frazzled Feb 2020 #22
dumptrump1 Feb 2020 #5
TomSlick Feb 2020 #43
dumptrump1 Feb 2020 #45
TomSlick Feb 2020 #46
LineLineLineLineLineReply .
dumptrump1 Feb 2020 #47
AncientGeezer Feb 2020 #59
Cuthbert Allgood Feb 2020 #6
melman Feb 2020 #44
HarlanPepper Feb 2020 #7
Bradshaw3 Feb 2020 #8
ripcord Feb 2020 #9
OnDoutside Feb 2020 #35
The Velveteen Ocelot Feb 2020 #10
Nanjeanne Feb 2020 #11
Moderateguy Feb 2020 #13
LanternWaste Feb 2020 #18
TwilightZone Feb 2020 #23
Blue_true Feb 2020 #37
bucolic_frolic Feb 2020 #12
jimlup Feb 2020 #14
Moderateguy Feb 2020 #20
jimlup Feb 2020 #24
Moderateguy Feb 2020 #25
jimlup Feb 2020 #34
Moderateguy Feb 2020 #36
Blue_true Feb 2020 #38
SCantiGOP Feb 2020 #15
zackymilly Feb 2020 #19
brush Feb 2020 #16
Post removed Feb 2020 #21
greenjar_01 Feb 2020 #26
MontanaMama Feb 2020 #27
LaurenOlimina Feb 2020 #28
Moderateguy Feb 2020 #30
Blue_true Feb 2020 #39
aikoaiko Feb 2020 #50
Jedi Guy Feb 2020 #29
Moderateguy Feb 2020 #31
DavidDvorkin Feb 2020 #42
Kurt V. Feb 2020 #32
highplainsdem Feb 2020 #33
Gothmog Feb 2020 #40
boston bean Feb 2020 #41
NYMinute Feb 2020 #48
Berniesbiggestfan Feb 2020 #51
former9thward Feb 2020 #52
Duppers Feb 2020 #53
Duppers Feb 2020 #57
Apollo Zeus Feb 2020 #54
Tweedy Feb 2020 #55
oasis Feb 2020 #56
Hermit-The-Prog Feb 2020 #58

Response to Moderateguy (Original post)

Thu Feb 27, 2020, 02:45 PM

1. I need new glasses. For one quick second, I thought I read "civility" instead of "civics"...

 

My take-away from this:

1. It seems a lot of people are caught up in the Sanders hype and have no idea how our government functions.
2. Even if Sanders were to become President- we would lose these young people starting 2022 when Sanders can't wave a magic wand and make all their wishes come true.
3. How this is like some Trump voters who were promised something that never materialized.

This has me worried for our future. It seems that there will be a significant percentage of the electorate that will get disappointed/disillusioned and stop participating in our political process.
That's about the long and short of it. You are definitely NOT alone in your observations and in your feelings about them.

You may include me among those who are worried for our future. Heaven help us.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to Moderateguy (Original post)

Thu Feb 27, 2020, 02:47 PM

2. This is kind of common. Sadly.

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to Moderateguy (Original post)

Thu Feb 27, 2020, 02:47 PM

3. Cool story, bro. nt

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to RandiFan1290 (Reply #3)

Thu Feb 27, 2020, 09:49 PM

49. Glad you liked it, Randi.. It's an Important story, too.

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to Moderateguy (Original post)

Thu Feb 27, 2020, 02:48 PM

4. Why cost is so important

 

Power of the Purse House

“All Bills for raising Revenue shall originate in the House of Representatives; but the Senate may propose or concur with amendments as on other Bills.”
— U.S. Constitution, Article I, section 7, clause 1
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Joe Biden

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Response to frazzled (Reply #4)

Thu Feb 27, 2020, 03:03 PM

17. This is not about how to pay for it BUT about how ignorant our young (and old) are about govt.

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to Moderateguy (Reply #17)

Thu Feb 27, 2020, 03:08 PM

22. Bu that's the point

 

A President doesn’t control appropriations for programs he may push for. Congress does.
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Joe Biden

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Response to Moderateguy (Original post)

Thu Feb 27, 2020, 02:48 PM

5. #2 only requires an executive order

 

The dept of education has full control over what happens with the loans issued by them.
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Undecided

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Response to dumptrump1 (Reply #5)

Thu Feb 27, 2020, 08:23 PM

43. I don't think so.

 

First, not all student loans are direct federal loans. Many are federal guaranteed loans - loans made by private lenders but guaranteed by the government. The President cannot void these obligations without the government paying off the loans.

For both direct federal loans and federally guaranteed loans, forgiveness would require legislation to amend the applicable law and a Congressional appropriation to pay the costs.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to TomSlick (Reply #43)

Thu Feb 27, 2020, 09:11 PM

45. I mean for only federal loans.

 

But most loans are federal. Even though others have taken out private loans -it is still a much smaller percentage. Same thing with legalizing marijuana, it doesn't take the legislature: just an executive action, as it is the DEA that determines how dangerous the drug is.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to dumptrump1 (Reply #45)

Thu Feb 27, 2020, 09:27 PM

46. Even for direct federal loans, there would have to be a change in the law and an appropriation.

 

Similarly, legalizing (or even decriminalizing) marijuana would require Congressional action. A President could direct that the DoJ not prosecute marijuana cases but possession would remain illegal.

U.S. Presidents are not all powerful, what Trump says to the contrary notwithstanding. Neither the President nor Congress can lawfully do much without the other, at least in the domestic policy area.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to TomSlick (Reply #46)

Thu Feb 27, 2020, 09:42 PM

47. .

 

"

To effectively end marijuana prohibition through the executive branch, according to an analysis from the Brookings Institution’s John Hudak, the secretary of the Department of Health and Human Services (HHS) or an outside party would have to file a petition, which would then be reviewed by the attorney general, who has usually delegated that responsibility to the Drug Enforcement Administration (DEA). The attorney general can also initiate the process on their own, requesting a scientific review directly to HHS. Under HHS, the Food and Drug Administration (FDA) would then assess the scientific, medical and public health implications before submitting that review to the Justice Department."

https://www.brookings.edu/blog/fixgov/2015/02/13/how-to-reschedule-marijuana-and-why-its-unlikely-anytime-soon/

It would be difficult either way, but it can be done both ways.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to dumptrump1 (Reply #5)

Fri Feb 28, 2020, 10:17 AM

59. No.....

 

Your pot reference only has bearing on how the Executive branch handles that issue at the Federal level and could be undone with the stroke of a pen by the next POTUS demanding the AG to reverse the previous AG's

Student loan money starts as a Legislative appropriation. DOE can dispense the funds per legislation that authorized the Federal funds with much leeway of course.
They have Zero authority to Disappear that money that belongs to all tax payers.
Again an EO can be undone by another EO........EO's don't make laws.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to Moderateguy (Original post)

Thu Feb 27, 2020, 02:49 PM

6. #theneveryonestoodupandclapped

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to Cuthbert Allgood (Reply #6)

Thu Feb 27, 2020, 08:30 PM

44. #arealthingthatreallyhappened

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to Moderateguy (Original post)

Thu Feb 27, 2020, 02:49 PM

7. I've witnessed the same dynamic in real life and here

 

A few weeks ago I had to explain senate super majorities and the filibuster to a Sanders supporter. At least that one knew it couldn’t be done via EO.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to Moderateguy (Original post)

Thu Feb 27, 2020, 02:50 PM

8. I bet there is another side to the story

 

Sorry but a candidate who has misleading ads, at the least "mischaracterizes" his past statements and actions, and isn't transparent about his past business dealings that includes numerous lawsuits isn't anyone to believe. One of his supporters claiming to have "schooled" them pesky yunguns is not only showing a lot of arrogance but a good reason to question this version of things.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to Moderateguy (Original post)

Thu Feb 27, 2020, 02:54 PM

9. Going to be interesting if we get a brokered convention

 

If Bernie has say a 20 percentage point lead and the DNC tells all those young voters you are registering that their opinions don't matter.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to ripcord (Reply #9)

Thu Feb 27, 2020, 07:26 PM

35. You might then instruct them on the rules of the contest ? If he's

 

as popular as many of you say he is, surely he'll have it all wrapped and up before the convention ? If he doesn't then the rules of the convention come into play.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to Moderateguy (Original post)

Thu Feb 27, 2020, 02:56 PM

10. There is an awful lot of ignorance in this country about how our government actually works,

 

including here on DU. I wonder when they stopped teaching this stuff in high school? There are so many misconceptions about the powers of the presidency, the fact that both houses of Congress have to approve legislation (and the process of reconciling bills in Congress usually results in something much different from the original bills), and then the president has to sign it. And then the Supreme Court might weigh in if the constitutionality of the law is challenged. And it seems like hardly anybody has actually read the Constitution, either.

It's not uncommon for politicians to promise the moon, but I would hope voters understand that these plans are merely aspirational. Knowing what a candidate would like to do is useful as a guide to his/her ideology, but the candidates themselves - especially the Senators - know damn well that they can't make these promises come true all by themselves, and they aren't being honest with voters (who they also know damn well are mostly pretty ignorant about the process) if they're writing checks they can't cash.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to Moderateguy (Original post)

Thu Feb 27, 2020, 02:59 PM

11. So cool that you could educate those dummies. Maybe we should only let the landed gentry vote.

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to Nanjeanne (Reply #11)

Thu Feb 27, 2020, 03:01 PM

13. Or do a better job of educating our young about it in school

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to Moderateguy (Reply #13)

Thu Feb 27, 2020, 03:05 PM

18. Or do a better job of making our stories sound more plausible.

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
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Joe Biden

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Response to LanternWaste (Reply #18)

Thu Feb 27, 2020, 03:44 PM

23. Is the implausible part...

 

the part where the Sanders supporters accepted facts as, well, facts?

I'm joking, of course. Well, maybe.
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Joe Biden

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Response to Nanjeanne (Reply #11)

Thu Feb 27, 2020, 07:27 PM

37. Comeon. YOU, of all people wouldn't want just the land gentry to vote. I totally agree with you on

 

that point.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to Moderateguy (Original post)

Thu Feb 27, 2020, 03:01 PM

12. I thought you just got some crooks to do things and then ignored all subpoenas

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to Moderateguy (Original post)

Thu Feb 27, 2020, 03:02 PM

14. I'm sure ignorant Bloomberg supporters exist as well

 

give it a rest already. The division the mainstream has made over the Sanders campaign is disruptive to our party and our chances of beating that Orange Clown in the WH.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to jimlup (Reply #14)

Thu Feb 27, 2020, 03:06 PM

20. It is a widespread problem not limited to any one candidates' supporters

 

These people just happened to be Sanders supporters only because they are college kids and their primary concern is how to pay for college. And this particular candidate is offering them a potential solution.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to Moderateguy (Reply #20)

Thu Feb 27, 2020, 07:00 PM

24. I am a Bernie Supporter

 

Though I would prefer Elizabeth, I don't think she's viable given the polls. I vote the week after super Tuesday.

I essentially have just finished paying off my student loans (I have a Ph.D. which cost the majority of my loans.) I'll go on Medicare next year because I will be 63. I will likely take a hit in my retirement account because stocks are likely to drop when Bernie wins.
And, I expect my taxes, which I am already behind on, will go way up because I'm at the peak of my salary earning life cycle.

Nevertheless, I support Bernie. He's not the perfect candidate. I think his "Green New Deal" doesn't totally understand the scientific reality of what we are facing. Nevertheless, I think it is time to discover some truth about the American people. We've tried it the "move to the center" way for decades or longer. Maybe it is time to try things from the other direction and discover that what the so called "wise" pundits say isn't really as true as they lead us to believe.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to jimlup (Reply #24)

Thu Feb 27, 2020, 07:07 PM

25. I get where you're coming from

 

Just to clarify I consider healthcare to be a human right. I just don’t believe that Bernie can win in middle America. If I had to chose a progressive candidate I’d choose Warren— she understands that change is incremental and can build the necessary relationships to make it happen. All I see in Bernie is a stubborn man with a my way or highway mentality. That could work if we were electing a King but were are electing a President
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to Moderateguy (Reply #25)

Thu Feb 27, 2020, 07:25 PM

34. You should look again at Bernie

 

as he may be the nominee.... and I for one will celebrate that.

Maybe it is time to try from the left rather than the center as the center just doesn't work as anticipated. I think "middle America" isn't necessarily what you think.
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Joe Biden

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Response to jimlup (Reply #34)

Thu Feb 27, 2020, 07:26 PM

36. We shall soon find out

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to jimlup (Reply #14)

Thu Feb 27, 2020, 07:30 PM

38. I have seen that level of ignorance among Trump supporters.

 

When I take time to talk to and question them, I am astounded by how little they know about how even our city government works.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to Moderateguy (Original post)

Thu Feb 27, 2020, 03:02 PM

15. What I learned from a valuable civics lesson

 

1. Poster signs up a week ago but already has 3 posts removed
2. Lectures DU as he lectured a bunch of supposed community college students
3. Supports Bloomberg

uh, no thanks.
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Joe Biden

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Response to SCantiGOP (Reply #15)


Response to Moderateguy (Original post)

Thu Feb 27, 2020, 03:02 PM

16. Scary. This is why udeliverable promises and the promisee are dangerous.

 

Uniformed, young Sanders voters who believe in his ability to deliver on his promises could have a devastating and negative impact on our party, the outcome of the election and our country.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to Moderateguy (Original post)


Response to Moderateguy (Original post)

Thu Feb 27, 2020, 07:08 PM

26. RIP your mentions

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to Moderateguy (Original post)

Thu Feb 27, 2020, 07:10 PM

27. Did they respond with

 

snark and laughing emojis?
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Response to Moderateguy (Original post)

Thu Feb 27, 2020, 07:12 PM

28. Ok Bloomer

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to LaurenOlimina (Reply #28)

Thu Feb 27, 2020, 07:17 PM

30. 😄

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to LaurenOlimina (Reply #28)

Thu Feb 27, 2020, 07:31 PM

39. That was just cruel.

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to LaurenOlimina (Reply #28)

Thu Feb 27, 2020, 10:25 PM

50. DUzy!!!

 



If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to Moderateguy (Original post)

Thu Feb 27, 2020, 07:16 PM

29. Sadly this isn't exactly what I'd call a rare phenomenon.

 

During the 2012 election when Obama was going for a second term, I had a friend who was a single-issue voter, with the issue in question being marriage equality. I admired her dedication to marriage equality, but she had this notion that if re-elected, Obama could simply... declare that marriage equality was a thing, and it would be so.

I had to explain to her that a President has a great deal of influence, both on his or her own party and through the power of the bully pulpit, but he or she can't simply declare that X is legal/illegal by fiat.

There is a lot of misunderstanding about how our government functions, on the left, the right, and the unaffiliated. Go on Youtube sometime and watch those videos where they quiz college students or randos on the street about US history and civics. The results are depressing as all hell.
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Response to Jedi Guy (Reply #29)

Thu Feb 27, 2020, 07:20 PM

31. Being an immigrant I am a bit mad about it

 

Immigrants are made to study up on government and how it functions before we can naturalize yet most Americans by birth don’t seem to know how the government functions
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to Moderateguy (Reply #31)

Thu Feb 27, 2020, 07:36 PM

42. Yes

 

I like to say that I had to take a test to prove that I qualified for citizenship. The native born get there the easy way.
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Joe Biden

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Response to Moderateguy (Original post)

Thu Feb 27, 2020, 07:23 PM

32. Bloomberg is the greatest threat to democratic party. bar none.

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to Moderateguy (Original post)

Thu Feb 27, 2020, 07:24 PM

33. That's been my experience with Sanders supporters, too. Most of them have no idea

 

how little chance he has of making good on his promises if he's elected.
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Joe Biden

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Response to Moderateguy (Original post)

Thu Feb 27, 2020, 07:34 PM

40. None of sanders proposals can be adopted in the real world

 




But Reid, who served as a Democrat in the U.S. Senate for 30 years, including as majority leader for eight years, said it didn't matter which candidate comes out in support of Sanders' signature health care plan: "I’m against it."

"It’s impractical ... There’s not a chance in hell it would pass," he told ABC News Political Director Rick Klein, instead advocating for strengthening the Affordable Care Act -- or Obamacare -- and looking to pass a public option.


There are not enough Democratic votes to get this concept passed in the real world

If I were to vote in a presidential
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Joe Biden

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Response to Moderateguy (Original post)

Thu Feb 27, 2020, 07:35 PM

41. This is why Elizabeth Warrens response at the last debate was,worrisome.

 

She was essentially stating that her and Bernie’s ideas were popular. As if that is enough.
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Response to Moderateguy (Original post)

Thu Feb 27, 2020, 09:46 PM

48. Free tuition and debt forgiveness are the biggest pandering scams

 

without fully disclosing that it would be extremely difficult if not impossible to pass any of that.
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Joe Biden

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Response to Moderateguy (Original post)

Thu Feb 27, 2020, 10:41 PM

51. Cool story bro.

 

Yeah I'm sure Bernie is going to sign an executive order to make the top tax rate 90%...said no one ever.
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Response to Moderateguy (Original post)

Thu Feb 27, 2020, 11:10 PM

52. In your civics lesson did you explain how Bloomberg tried to tell people

 

how much soda pop they could drink? And how he got his ass handled to him as a result by the courts?
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Undecided

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Response to Moderateguy (Original post)

Thu Feb 27, 2020, 11:13 PM

53. These *naive* young Bernie supporters...

 

Are exactly like the MAGA Hats now. Easily deceived!!

Bernie's campaign people's messaging in 2020 seems to be a lot extreme hype and exaggeration. And these young ppl are buying it hook, line, & "border-wall."





If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to Duppers (Reply #53)

Thu Feb 27, 2020, 11:20 PM

57. Note: I said "Bernie's campaign people's messaging"

 

NOT Bernie!

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Response to Moderateguy (Original post)

Thu Feb 27, 2020, 11:17 PM

54. Meanwhile Sanders got $15/hr from the largest employer in the US

 

which is 12-cents more per hour than Bloomberg pays his "influencers"
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Response to Moderateguy (Original post)

Thu Feb 27, 2020, 11:19 PM

55. #2 can be done by executive order

 

Under the authorizing legislation, the secretary has the power to forgive all, or part, of student debt. There is no limiting language.

Tax bills must originate in the house. So, number 3 is a constitutional no go. Though a tax bill can be achieved with reconciliation. 90% (still lower than FDR) is not likely.

Neither the president, nor the secretary of education have the power to make landgrant colleges free so far as I know.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to Moderateguy (Original post)

Thu Feb 27, 2020, 11:19 PM

56. Party pooper

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to Moderateguy (Original post)

Thu Feb 27, 2020, 11:43 PM

58. No magic wand involved. You just have to yell and flap your arms just right.

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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