This time, Bernie Sanders 'rigged' the system against himself

[highplainsdem]

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2020-election/time-bernie-sanders-rigged-system-against-himself-n1144361

CHARLESTON, S.C. — There's nothing Bernie Sanders hates more than a "rigged" system — especially if he rigged it for his own benefit and then watched his handiwork backfire.

Sanders and his allies want Democrats to ignore the rules he helped rewrite and coronate him at the party's convention this summer if he arrives with a plurality — but not a majority — of delegates. Even though Sanders has long been wary of the role party leaders can play in hand-picking a nominee, his position now is a reversal from the one he took in 2016, when he looked to so-called superdelegates to overcome Hillary Clinton's lead in regular delegates at the end of their primary race.

The risk for Sanders is that voters might begin to believe that his definition of a "rigged" system has nothing to do with fairness and everything to do with whether he wins or loses. If they determine that's true when it comes to party rules, they might also start to question whether he's the right messenger to take on the economic and political systems he says are "rigged" against ordinary Americans.

-snip-

[DanTex]

1. LOL. Man, they're really pushing the "Bernie wrote the rules" talking point.

But he didn't. The DNC wrote the rules. Bernie didn't want superdelegates at all.

And really, what possible logic is there for having superdelegates?

[LisaM]

4. There's a lot of logic.

Last edited Fri Feb 28, 2020, 02:42 PM - Edit history (1)

They are the party faithful, people who have earned a seat at the table. They provide a safety net, and they are a counter balance to caucuses and open primaries. They would serve a huge purpose if a candidate has to drop out. They prove a candidate can build coalitions.

Not having them is the puzzler.

[DanTex]

5. You mean the "Democratic establishment"? I thought that was just a myth...

[relayerbob]

9. It's not a myth

It's the majority of us who have been in this for decades, 44 years for me.

[DanTex]

10. LOL. "Majority". Sorry, but the majority of us are not superdelegates or party insiders.

[Skidmore]

71. Ummm

Sanders is a superdelegate.

[LisaM]

97. Bwa ha ha

Tip of the hat to you, my friend.

[still_one]

102. +++

[LisaM]

94. Or not Democrats.

I have been working and supporting Democrats my whole life, including getting signatures on petitions since I was a kid, running for precinct delegate, working at car washes and Bingo, pounding yard signs, making phone calls, stamping mailers, and a lot of other stuff. And I still tip my hat to the true party faithful, like my mom, who have been going to meetings on a weekly basis for decades to do the grunt work of deciding things like whether they should endorse someone for a school board position in a town with 3000 people.

I admire that dedication to the Democratic party (which I love). Clearly you don't. We differ.

[lapucelle]

103. Nina Turner is a superdelegate.

Why did superdelegate BS hire a superdelegate to run his campaign?

[sheshe2]

18. Bernie was and is a Super Delegate.

[LiberalFighter]

87. They are part of the Democratic "establishment"

because
state party chairs and vice chairs are elected

the district chairs and vice chairs elected their state party officers

the county chairs and vice chairs elected their district officers

the precinct and vice precinct committepersons elected their county officers

the voters elect the precinct committepersons in their precinct

because
state DNC members are elected

the state convention delegates elected their DNC member

the voters elected those state convention delegates

These Democratic "establishment" members have been involved in the Democratic Party.

Just like the "establishment" members Jimmy Carter, Bill Clinton, Barack Obama and others.

[Hermit-The-Prog]

7. See the link in the article.

[DanTex]

8. Yeah. It's wrong. Bernie didn't write the rules, the DNC did.

[Hermit-The-Prog]

12. Bernie is the only candidate who had a hand in writing the rules, your assertion notwithstanding.

See the link.

[DanTex]

14. LOL. "A hand in". Bernie didn't write the rules, period. This is hilarious.

Bernie wanted there to be no superdelegates. But his supporters were outvoted, and so we still have superdelegates. And now people are trying to blame the existence of the superdelegates on Bernie, who opposed having superdelegates.

[Hermit-The-Prog]

19. Glad to have helped you laugh. I'm still not sure you're reading though.

The link I am referring to is not in the OP, but within the article linked and quoted in the OP.

It's about Tom Perez and Bernie Sanders, if that helps.

[DanTex]

22. Yeah, I've seen it, and I know exactly how the process went down.

And, yes, it is truly hilarious that people are blaming Bernie for superdelegates.

[Hermit-The-Prog]

30. What blame? Why not credit? Does he regret working for 2 years to change the rules?

[JudyM]

90. Crazy how some folks keep repeating a total fabrication.

[sheshe2]

23. Then Bernie should deny/rescind his status as a Super Delegate.

[oasis]

27. Yup, on principle. Just as he's refusing Bloomberg help if he's the nominee.

Gotta be consistent when it come to principles.

[sheshe2]

34. You just nailed it!!!!!

On principle.

[NurseJackie]

75. He'll never do that.

And I could tell you why, but for obvious reasons I wont say. But you know what I'm thinking.

[sheshe2]

76. Yep 👍

[mzmolly]

26. "Today's decision by the DNC is an important step forward," Sanders said in a statement.

"This has been a long and arduous process, and I want to thank Tom Perez and all of those who made it happen.”

https://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/democrats-vs-trump/democrats-strip-super-delegates-power-reform-caucuses-historic-move-n903866

[DanTex]

29. And it was an improvement. But not a solution.

[mzmolly]

53. It was a solution that many painfully

agreed to, feeling that people of color would not be properly represented.

Some of the strongest opposition to the change came from black delegates, especially in the older generation, who said it would “disenfranchise” African-American and Latino party leaders and make their convention less diverse.

https://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/democrats-vs-trump/democrats-strip-super-delegates-power-reform-caucuses-historic-move-n903866

Bernie had more say than anyone else running and made significant changes. He will have to live with those changes, as do others. He was a key part of 'the establishment' in this case.

[MontanaMama]

50. Bernie wasn't the boss of it all

and didn’t get everything he wanted. *

[cstanleytech]

58. From what it looks like you are right he did not write them however it does appear he proposed

and helped push through a number of reforms that are currently being used in this election.
Before you get your dander up keep in mind I am not taking any candidates side as I personally intend to support whoever wins the Democratic nomination be it Warren, Sanders, Biden or Pete because no matter what Trump cannot be allowed a 2nd term.

[W_HAMILTON]

15. He is the only candidate in the race that had a direct say in writing the rules.

It is not a talking point -- it is the truth.

No only claimed that "he alone" wrote the rules, but when people say that he is the only candidate that had a direct say in writing the rules that everyone is now playing under, that is most certainly true.

[DanTex]

16. LOL. He *opposed* superdelegates, and now people are trying to blame him for them.

His supporters were a minority on the committee, and they got outvoted. It's hilarious that people are trying to blame Bernie for the exact opposite of what Bernie's supporters wanted.

Too much!

[W_HAMILTON]

25. He didn't get all he wanted, but neither did anyone else.

It's called compromise, which Sanders apparently knows little about, which is why he has barely accomplished anything legislatively despite three decades in Congress.

I'm so sorry that a part-time temporary Democrat that left the party immediately after using their resources to boost his national profile didn't get to write the rules all by himself. He's lucky he got any say in it all. None of the other candidates currently running had any say in it and they aren't complaining that Sanders rigged the process in his favor.

[DanTex]

31. Right. And the undemocratic part -- the superdelegates -- is the part that Bernie didn't want.

And now people are trying to blame Bernie for exactly the thing that he didn't want. It's absurd.

[W_HAMILTON]

37. Bullshit.

I already responded to you in another post (#35). Sanders himself endorsed the rules that we are now currently operating under. Stop trying to blame everyone else for playing by the rules that Sanders himself helped write and then ENDORSED.

[DanTex]

38. It's the truth. Bernie and his supporters didn't want superdelegates.

I don't know why you are denying that. It's obvious, and everybody knows it.

Even the people trying to blame Bernie for the existence of superdelegates. They know that Bernie was against them. It's pure hypocrisy.

[MrsCoffee]

74. Then it's pretty fucking hypocritical of him to be one now and in the past.

Bernie Sanders is one of the most hypocritical politicians in the game. That people are so sucked in as to keep making excuses for him just blows my mind. He is so much of what he preaches against it’s almost comical.


Bernie Sanders: Wealthy establishment superdelegate with super pacs and shady non-profits and doesn’t believe in transparency for himself.

[showblue22]

95. So what? You can't have everything you want.

It should not be Bernie and his supporters alone anyway. The important part is that he and the DNC together compromised and came to an agreement. That agreement is not null and void just because parts of it Bernie didn't like.

[JudyM]

91. Including Warren. That was a bigger disappointment

than random people here who are going to pile on any shred of a complaint, however ridiculous, against Sanders.

He’s not perfect, by any means, but focus on what’s real instead of boogie man/straw man arguments. Anything else is disingenuous and is beneath us as Dems.

[Old Terp]

100. You can't always get what you want

And if you are not a member nor do you support the organization, just being allowed is more than you are owed.

[William769]

66. HOLD THE PRESSES!!!

So what you are saying is Bernie supporters didn't have the majority and they are upset they didn't get exactly what they wanted.

Seems to me like you and your friends are very selective about when you want the Majority to count and when you don't.

Here's a tip, the all delegates at the convention are going to pick who our nominee is and there's not a damn thing you or I or anyone on this site can do about it.

[Cha]

68. ..

[George II]

17. It's not a talking point. His people DID write some of the modifications to the rules....

AND, by deciding to become a candidate for the Democratic nomination he agreed to the rules in place when he became a candidate.

By the way, it should be pointed out that one of his top campaign advisers/staffers, Tad Devine, was instrumental in the establishment of the super delegates. As Yogi Berra used to say, "you can look it up."

[DanTex]

24. His people were a minority on the committee, and they didn't get what they wanted.

The reason there are superdelegates is because Bernie's supporters were outnumbered. And now people are trying to blame Bernie's supporters for the very superdelegates that they opposed, but weren't able to get rid of, because they were outnumbered.

It's hilarious. Seriously.

[George II]

28. The reason there are super delegates is because the DEMOCRATIC PARTY wanted them!

The Democratic Party is more than one person. No single person dictates the way an organization operates or conducts themselves.

[W_HAMILTON]

35. Don't even try to make those excuses.

Sanders HIMSELF endorsed the rules that our nomination is being run under:

The Democratic National Committee moved one step closer toward reforming its presidential nominating process Tuesday, as the Unity Reform Commission created to deal with the aftermath of the last primary voted to advance new rules that would essentially make superdelegates irrelevant.

The compromise, which emerged after the URC’s suggestions were debated by the DNC’s Rules and Bylaws Committee, would prevent the hundreds of unpledged delegates — figures as diverse at former presidents and low-ranking DNC members — from voting on the first ballot of a presidential nomination. While they would be free to make endorsements, their support would not count toward a candidate’s delegate total, except in the event of a brokered convention.

…

That reform, which was first pitched by party activists at the 2016 convention in Philadelphia, diverged from the URC’s original recommendation. Led by supporters of Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-Vt.), commission members initially debated proposals that would have bound superdelegates to the results of state primaries, and bound superdelegates who did not represent states to the national vote total.

The idea, initially embraced by Sanders supporters, was rife with logistical problems. After the “no vote till second ballot” compromise emerged, Sanders himself endorsed it, smoothing its path through Rules and the URC.

Taken from: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/powerpost/wp/2018/07/17/dnc-moves-ahead-on-superdelegate-reform-but-fight-looms-on-transparency/

STOP WITH THE LIES.

[DanTex]

36. It's not an "excuse", it's a fact. Bernie's people wanted to get rid of superdelegates,

but they weren't able to, because they were outnumbered. And now Bernie is being blamed for the very superdelegates that, if he had his way, wouldn't have even existed.

It's mindbogglingly hypocritical.

[W_HAMILTON]

40. Outnumbered my ass. READ THE ARTICLE.

He ENDORSED these rules, which is one of the main reasons they went on to pass to begin with.

Post the up-and-down vote totals from the Unity Reform Commission that you are referring to if you want to continue to make those claims. Provide the proof.

[DanTex]

41. Yes, outnumbered. As in, less than half of the committee.

I have no idea why you are trying to deny that. It's common knowledge. Bernie and his supporters didn't want any superdelegates at all, but they didn't have the votes.

[W_HAMILTON]

42. It was a COMMISSION and it was tasked to come up with proposals...

…which were arrived at through consensus and compromise and not simply through up-and-down votes.

As I said, post the vote count from the Unity Reform Commission that you are referring to. Post it.

[DanTex]

43. Committee, Commission. The point is, the Bernie people were outnumbered on it,

and so they weren't able to get rid of superdelegates. And now, with supreme hypocrisy, Bernie is being blamed for the very superdelegates that his supporters weren't able to get rid of because they didn't have the votes.

[W_HAMILTON]

45. I didn't correct you because of semantics.

I corrected you because you clearly don't understand the purpose of a commission in this scenario. Show us all these up-and-down votes you are referring to from the Unity Reform Commission or stop pushing your lies. As much as I have read, there were no up-and-down votes. There was compromise and consensus reached among all the members of the commission, after which their proposals were forwarded to the DNC as a whole to be voted on. If you have evidence to the contrary -- which you damn sure better, given that you are talking about all these mythical votes -- SHOW IT.

[DanTex]

46. OK. Still, Bernie's people were outnumbered, I hope you're not denying that.

And also I hope you're not denying that Bernie and his supporters wanted to get rid of superdelegates entirely. Are you?

So I'm not sure what else there is to say???? It's pretty clear what the situation was.

[W_HAMILTON]

47. It doesn't mattered if someone was "outnumbered"...

...when it was a commission format, which meant that they had to get buy-in from all parties before they could move forward with a proposal. There were not simple up-and-down votes -- lord knows we would have heard numerous stories about """rigging""" if that were the case. The Sanders people signed off on the resulting rules changes and Sanders himself ENDORSED the rule compromises that everyone else is now running under. Those are the FACTS.

[DanTex]

48. Of course it does. It meant they couldn't get what they wanted in terms of getting rid of supers.

And now, we still have superdelegates, and for some reason, people are trying to blame them on Bernie, even though Bernie didn't want them there.

It's head-spinning hypocrisy.

[W_HAMILTON]

72. NO ONE got everything they wanted.

Once again, that's the point of a commission-type format: it requires a consensus being reached among all parties involved, not just one, and not just a majority.

These are the rules Sanders agreed to, PERIOD. His people negotiated for them. He personally ENDORSED them. If he disagreed with them, he could have refused to support them, in which case they would not have been forwarded for a full vote of the party. As has already been pointed out to you, his personal support of them is what ultimately pushed them across the finish line.

ACCEPT RESPONSIBILITY.

[OnDoutside]

73. But if Sanders wasn't happy that he didn't get everything he demanded, there's no way he

would have endorsed the rule change ? Which he did of course. But his supporters are so polarized, it's all or nothing, when things don't go their way.

[AncientGeezer]

93. Maybe Sen. Sanders should register as a Democrat and STAY a Democrat...

....if he wants to try to dictate to the commission.

[redstateblues]

61. Bernie bitched and moaned til he got what he wanted.

They bent over backwards to please Bernie

[fleabiscuit]

56. Irony. Kind of sounds like a democratic way to an end. nt

[chillfactor]

54. some of you sanders supporters......

remind me of an ostrich ...... you have your heads buried in the sand and cannot accept FACTS because you cannot accept that you are wrong.

[awesomerwb1]

59. They remind me of Jim Jones followers

Absolutely incredible.

You know who (Not dump) could shoot someone in broad daylight and they would blame the victim for standing in front of you know who. Which reminds me of MAGAts.

[William769]

65. Who the hell is complaining about the Work Bernie did?

Hell I applaud his work! it's going to come back and bite him in the ass!

[MontanaMama]

49. You said it yourself!

Bernie’s supporters were outnumbered. It happens. He got a seat at the table...He was heard...he had a voice and it didn’t all go Bernie’s way. Bernie isn’t a Democrat. Maybe if he invested in the party that he uses to his advantage but clearly disdains, the outcome might me different. Why is Bernie always the victim?

“It’s hilarious. Seriously”.

[fallout87]

33. Yes they are

The attacks are getting pretty desperate

[Indykatie]

52. Strange That We Never See Bernie Supporters Questioning the Logic for Caucuses

I say thank goodness for super delegates. I'm sure most won't vote to give the nomination to someone who has such disdain for the Democratic party and only identifies as one when he needs our party infrastructure.

[jmowreader]

55. //Insert picture of Donald Trump here//

There's a pretty good chance that if the GOP had superdelegates in 2016, someone besides Trump would have been the Republican nominee.

[honest.abe]

82. LOL.. and you are relentlessly pushing just the opposite.

And failing I might add.

[aikoaiko]

2. This article is disengenuous. Bernie wanted to get rid of the super delegates completely.

... but the party establishment couldn't trust the Democratic primary voters to pick their own candidate.

So they were retained for the second round as a "fail-safe" to a first round without superdelegates.

I, for one, am grateful we're not hearing anything from the superdelegates yet.

[TwilightZone]

11. He wanted to get rid of the SDs until he needed them.

Then he tried to get them to switch.

https://www.npr.org/2016/05/19/478705022/sanders-campaign-now-says-superdelegates-are-key-to-winning-nomination

His position appears to be whichever option is the most advantageous to himself, including his current one.

[W_HAMILTON]

21. It's not disingenuous.

Sanders had a seat in writing the current rules. I'm sure he didn't get everything he wanted, but neither did anyone else who had a hand in writing the rules. It's called compromise.

Sanders signed off on the rules as they were adopted, period.

[fleabiscuit]

57. Considering the established role of outside forces messing in our last election then the ...

"party establishment couldn't trust the Democratic primary voters to pick their own candidate" is pretty much a good call. A failsafe seems exceedingly prudent.

It's deja vu all over again.

[lapucelle]

70. We heard from four of the superdelegates right on the debate stage.

Three of them want to follow the rules. One of them doesn't.

Bernie Sanders is the only Democratic candidate on the debate stage who thinks the candidate with the most delegates should win the party’s presidential nomination even if he or she doesn't have a majority.

His rivals on Wednesday night in Las Vegas say the party should let the convention play out according to rules set by the party, which allow for multiple rounds of voting if a candidate is unable to get a majority of the delegates on the first round.

https://www.thestate.com/news/article240435686.html#storylink=cpy

I wonder if the super delegate running the BS campaign (Senator© Nina Turner) agrees with BS that the rules should be broken.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_2020_Democratic_Party_automatic_delegates

[lapucelle]

106. BS is a superdelegate. He hired superdelegate Nina Turner to run his campaign.

Superdelegate Ocasio Cotez has already endorsed BS before she knows the will of the people she represents.

And just this month, superdelegate Rashida Tlaib (who has also already endorsed BS before the people she represents expressed their will) led a crowd booing our 2016 general election candidate Hillary Clinton, who is not a superdelegate.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_2020_Democratic_Party_automatic_delegates

[Cha]

3. omg.. Finally!

Thank you.. bookmarked!

[msongs]

6. there are clear precedents for a politician with a plurality that gamed the system and took over

[Me.]

13. And Remember...BS Is A Super Delegate

[Squinch]

78. Bwahahahaha!!!! I did not know that!!!!!

Man, that guy is too freaking much.

[betsuni]

20. "voters might begin to believe that his definition of a 'rigged' system has nothing to do with

fairness and everything to do with whether he wins or loses."

Duh.

[Cha]

69. That's why I said

Finally!

[dalton99a]

39. Kick

[Orrex]

44. If the past few years have shown us one thing...

it's that Sanders doesn't need to worry about his supporters faulting him for his mistakes and missteps.

[TwilightZone]

51. That...

is an accurate statement.

[redstatebluegirl]

101. A lot of the things about BS and his supporters is very familiar in a bad way.

[NoDakLinda]

60. If the past few years have shown us one thing...

….It's that when people can’t discuss the real issues, they make up bogus issues, or start a red-baiting campaign. They are in the campaign doing both. Those interested in stopping Bernie from being elected have powerful backing. During the Democratic debates the word “oligarchy” has been heard once. “We are living in a nation increasingly becoming an oligarchy,” Bernie Sanders said, “where you have a handful of billionaires who spend hundreds of millions of dollars buying elections and politicians.”

The Washington Post opined that the platforms of Sanders and Elizabeth Warren “probably would fail at the polls and, if not, would carry extreme risks if they tried to implement them.” While it praised “the relative moderates in the race” Joe Biden, Pete Buttigieg and Amy Klobuchar they are “offering a more positive future.”Yes, and they are also offering a great future for the owner of the newspaper, Jeff Bezos, who is one of the richest people in the world. Jeff Bezos bought the Washington Post in 2013. Bezos is an American internet and aerospace entrepreneur, media proprietor, and investor. He is best known as the founder, chief executive officer, and president of Amazon.

The crazy rich Americans and huge corporations that own the biggest U.S. media outlets don’t want actual democracy, because “a government in which a small group exercises control especially for corrupt and selfish purposes” isn’t a democracy.

Bernie Sanders wants to break up the New York banks, he wants to impose a Wall Street transaction tax, he wants to regulate drug prices, he’s for full Medicare for everybody, free choice of doctor and hospital he wants to get rid of these corporate tax havens, he’s pushing for a $15 dollar an hour minimum wage, he wants to stronger labor unions. In other words he is for everything democrats are supposed to be for. We don't need a government that does nothing to take care of sick people, while they have state-of-the-art medical care for themselves, and we sure shouldn't pay for it.

[JudyM]

89. +1

[ehrnst]

92. We have other choices that would be far more effective at doing the job and

have the skills to actually gets us moving towards those goals.

[House of Roberts]

62. Wasn't it Hillary who started this asking the superdelegates to vote for her

over Obama?

'The risk' for Sanders is still the same. The 'Iron Rule of Institutions' is that the party leaders would rather lose than lose their control.

[showblue22]

96. Hillary and Obama is a total different election

IIRC Hillary won the popular vote in that one.

[House of Roberts]

99. The principle is the same.

And Bernie is only using a hypothetical.

Obama won 17,535,458 to 17,493,836, and won pledged delegates 1794.5 to 1731.5. The superdelegates went 478 to 246.5 for Obama.

[showblue22]

105. Bernie stayed in the race hoping for superdelagets

Link to tweet

[rwsanders]

63. Sorry, I see this as another "gotcha" thread to avoid issues.

I'll judge my candidate based on this:

Are they going to make a difference, or are we going to get more of the same.

[Squinch]

81. Ummmmm...... I guess it IS important to name post offices....

[rwsanders]

98. Maybe he could have gotten more done with a few wealthy donors on his side

https://www.rootsaction.org/news-a-views/2036--joe-biden-i-dont-think-500-billionaires-are-the-reason-why-were-in-trouble

[betsuni]

64. This reminds me of how Sanders had a hand in writing the party platform.

About 80% of what he wanted. Then why the dramatic claims since then of the Democratic Party being centrist/moderate/establishment/status quo/corrupt/neoliberal/not progressive/too right-wing/same as Republicans? Sanders said "I'm not going to tear up the Affordable Care Act. I helped write it." But now it's killing millions because it's not the Medicare for All and anyone who wants to add the public option to the ACA doesn't want universal health care?

[William769]

67. And I thank him for that everyday.

[Farmer-Rick]

77. OMG another I hate Bernie scree from our corporate masters.

There is no disinformation about Bernie that isn't spread far and wide.

[Squinch]

79. Hahahaha! highplainsdem is our corporate masters? Or maybe you think they are just

a tool of the corporate masters? Because no one but BS followers can actually resist those corporate masters, right?

[Farmer-Rick]

83. You are very funny. Too bad you didn't read what I actually wrote.

Is ABC not a corporation? Was that link Not to ABC?

Talk about taking information out of context.

You are too funny....but inaccurate and wrong about what I wrote.

[Squinch]

84. .

[Squinch]

80. Hey, highplainsdem! Apparently you've been promoted to corporate master!!!

Congratulations! Cake in the break room after lunch!!

(see post above saying your post is a message from the corporate masters)

[Farmer-Rick]

85. You are taking comments out of context

But if you think ABC is not a corporation, let them know. And when you post a comment with a link to a corporate media story, should we assume you are a corporation Too?

Your humor lacks nuance.

[Squinch]

86. My humor lacks nuisance? Gracious!

[Farmer-Rick]

88. Thanks for the spell check

[MontanaMama]

104. I like cake.

Where is this break room of which you speak?

[Me.]

107. A Case Of Be Careful What You Wish For....

[Gothmog]

108. These are rules that sanders crammed down the DNC and so he has to live with these rules