A cardiologist weighs in on the question of Sanders's life expectancy

[highplainsdem]

I posted an OP earlier today about something published by Washington Monthly's editor-in-chief, which had showed up among the top news stories on Google about Sanders:

https://www.democraticunderground.com/1287596042

At the end of that piece the editor-in-chief had asked for feedback from doctors, especially cardiologists, and he just published a reply from a cardiologist:

https://washingtonmonthly.com/2020/02/28/more-on-bernie-sanderss-life-expectancy/

I am a cardiologist.

I think Senator Sanders’ risk of mortality is underappreciated because the importance of his heart attack is underappreciated. In a man of this age with a heart attack, good evidence suggests he has a median survival of 5 years. Here is the data, and the figure of it.

-snip-

As a cardiologist, to make a better assessment, I would like to know the following:

Which vessel was blocked and required the stenting?
Did he have ST segment elevations or depressions on his ECG?
How many vessels have significant blockage (>50%)
Is his heart pumping function normal or reduced?
Does he have diabetes?
How is his kidney function?
Does he have other vascular disease (stroke, known carotid artery stenosis, peripheral artery disease) as well?
What medications is he on now?
Are his blood pressure and cholesterol controlled?

-snip-

THIS is why it's important for Sanders to release his full medical records.

We've had posts here already on the importance of knowing Sanders' ejection fraction (referred to above by the question of whether his heart pumping function is normal or reduced).

But as this list of questions makes clear, there's a lot more information about Sanders' health that is needed before anyone can be at all certain that he's healthy enough to be the Democratic nominee, with some assurance he'd have a good chance of surviving at least one term.


And by the way, IF you think the questions about Sanders' health, especially his heart, will go away if he stonewalls on this and gets the nomination, guess again.

You can count on millions of dollars of GOP ads focusing on this, because it's an obvious vulnerability.

And one that Sanders should NOT subject the Democratic Party to, no matter how much he wants to be presdient.

He should release those records NOW.

For all our sakes.

And if you're a Sanders supporter who thinks he'll be able to respond to those questions and the inevitable attack ads about this by claiming he doesn't need to release those records -- good luck finding ANY cardiologists who'll give a professional opinion that voters have no reason to want to know what's in those medical records.

[zackymilly]

1. And 5 years is probably if you live a stress-free life, by not trying to run a country. n/t

[PatSeg]

21. The stress of the campaign trail,

especially so soon after a heart attack, probably isn't very healthy either. I worry that if he doesn't slow down and relax, he might not make until November. After a heart attack, most people dramatically change their lifestyle.

[patricia92243]

2. If the nominee died, who would take over the nominee position - His VP choice or the

next highest winner in the primaries?

[thesquanderer]

6. I think it's up to the party, and it doesn't even have to be either of the above (n/t)

[More_Cowbell]

7. According to an old WaPo story, the DNC chooses

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/monkey-cage/wp/2016/09/14/what-happens-if-a-u-s-presidential-candidate-withdraws-or-dies-before-the-election-is-over/

[FloridaBlues]

3. What do you think it will take to get him to release records? Drop in polling ?

[zackymilly]

5. His medical records may make him drop even lower, depending on what they say. n/t

[Rorey]

8. He'd release them if they were great

Or even pretty good. Anyone who's being honest with themselves has to admit that.

[ehrnst]

33. He'd be doing it to say that he had released more than anyone else...

If there was nothing in them that was problematic to his campaign.

[womanofthehills]

40. Biden & Bloomberg also have 2 stents each

Both of them also take blood thinners for irregular heartbeat. Bloomberg also takes a statin and a beta blocker. Alll 3 of the old white men are not exactly healthy - not just Bernie.

[Mosby]

50. Biden doesn't have any stents.

They both have some form of afib.

[thesquanderer]

9. re: "You can count on millions of dollars of GOP ads focusing on this"

I'm not sure... considering that Trump (who is widely to believed to have health issues) has, himself, never released detailed medical records, making it a line of attack that could come back to bite them. (Also that he hasn't released his tax returns, something else "we have a right to know.&quot

Personally, I would not be so concerned about this, as long as I was happy with his choice of VP.

[highplainsdem]

10. If we knew that Trump had suffered a heart attack in recent months, there'd be a hell of a lot

more pressure on him to release his full medical records.

And the same would be true for any of our candidates.

If Biden had suffered a recent heart attack, I'd expect him to release all the records.

Btw, if Warren supporters even hint that they're not worried about Sanders proving he's healthy enough to serve a full term, as long as Warren might be his VP, that probably won't go over very well with Sanders supporters. Many of whom already distrust Warren.

[First Speaker]

11. I am truly reluctant to make this any sort of issue...

...but I think it has to be. I think it's possible that Sanders privately regards himself as a sort of Moses--he'll get himself into the White House, glimpse the Promised Land...after, remarkably enough, 40 years in the Wilderness. But that the exploration and settlement might have to come from others. I don't know if I admire this or not, assuming that there's any truth to it at all. But it does make his Veep selection more than ordinarily important...

[LizBeth]

44. Sanders himself said it was the right thing to do to release the records. He would before the first

vote.

[Bernardo de La Paz]

12. tRump does not dare release his health records or his financial bona fides

I think that is who we should be focusing on, instead of one 77 year old Democrat attacking another 78 year old Democrat on health.

In any case, Don "Sniffles and Dementia" tRump should have no hope of making health of any candidate an issue.

Don't fall for the "Hillary is at death's door" trap again.

[PatrickforO]

13. Oh come now. Sanders is 78. Your candidate is 77.

According to US CDC data, BOTH of these men can expect to live to around 82 years of age.

So heart attack or no, Sanders can expect statistically to live another 4 years and change, while Biden gets a fifth year tacked on.

Basically, what the numbers are saying here is that EITHER man will probably, maybe, live through one term.

Here's the link: https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/hus/2010/022.pdf

Warren, according to these same averages, can reasonably be expected to live at least another 17.5 years.

Buttigieg, of course, will hopefully live another 40-50 years.

Bloomberg...well, I don't want to go there, but he's the same age as Bernie. So odds on to last another 4 years.

Steyer can be expected to live another 17 or 18 years - he's my age.

Klobuchar at least another 20 years.

Gabbard another 40 years or so.

No one knows, of course, but don't you think publishing a statement from a cardiologist saying Sanders probably has another five years when that's his actual life expectancy without actually mentioning that Biden enjoys virtually the SAME life expectancy is a bit...misleading?

[highplainsdem]

18. It's silly to pretend this is solely about age when Sanders has had a recent heart attack and is

refusing now to release his full medical records, despite promising earlier to do so.

The only rational conclusion anyone can draw is that he's hiding something very worrisome in those records.

[PatrickforO]

24. Maybe. But in the real world, which is what you and I live in,

after 60 or 65 your warranty's up. All bets are off.

And after age 75? You're on borrowed time. I mean, I'm not trying to be a jerk or bash these candidates by any means, and I will concede that Biden seems pretty healthy. But again - someone who enters the office of president, especially with the problems s/he will inherit, is going to age fast, because the job will be a pressure cooker. Look at how Obama aged. And Clinton. Both went in with color in their hair and both came out gray.

All I'm doing is being realistic in my view of either man. And, honestly, it is one of the reasons my primary vote went to Warren. Again, meaning no offense or ill wish toward any candidate on here.

[Jake Stern]

38. The more I read OPs like this, the more I'm reminded of my uncle

Never smoked, never drank alcohol or did drugs. Big on healthy eating and exercise. He was at the gym lifting weights at 80.

Just a few days after his 83rd birthday I stopped by his house on my way to the grocery store. He was bragging about how his doctor said he had the heart of a 40 year old and was in the peak of health. Saw the paper: with the exception of very slightly elevated cholesterol level he had a clean bill of health.

That afternoon while helping my cousin work on his car they were discussing an upcoming fishing trip when he suddenly crumpled to the ground. By the time paramedics arrived a few minutes later he was gone.

Despite an autopsy it's still not known what caused his heart to stop suddenly. They speculate that it was from some sort of chemical imbalance.

On paper he was as healthy as a man half his age but he still ended up dying suddenly.

Yet I had an aunt who smoked like a chimney, polished off a 12 pack of beer each night and loved pigging out on pork chops, sauerkraut and mashed potatoes. She died of pneumonia at 96

I just don't get it sometimes.

[LakeArenal]

37. Tell it to Jimmy Carter or even Bush l

[SleeplessinSoCal]

15. that gamble is as bad as trump's in pandemics.

There is way too similar an attitude going on with Bernie fans. Trump had the Congress and Moscow Mitch. Any Dem would be lucky to have one house. Obama had a filibuster proof Congress, yet could not get a public option or Medicare for all.

Btw, what the Russians do to help Bernie now, is bound to disappear after the convention.

[ehrnst]

19. +1000.

[ehrnst]

27. Well then....

Buhbye...

[ehrnst]

17. Please consider.... It's health concerns

He said people deserved to know about any Senator or POTUS' health - "full disclosure."

[highplainsdem]

20. Personally, I don't believe Sanders's "Not me, Us" slogan. And we have no reason to believe he'll be

fine.

Nor would I trust him to choose a reliable VP, given the people he's surrounded himself with, like Sirota.

We're voting for ONE PERSON. Not a team, and not an ideology or policy.

And in Sanders's case, that person has bad enough news in his medical records that he won't release them.

Which is disqualifying.

[ehrnst]

25. +1000.

[TTUBatfan2008]

16. It's a fair question...

...and he should definitely be as transparent as possible about his medical situation. I don't think he's going to win the nomination. But the longer this campaign goes, I would guess there will be more and more media pressure on him to be more transparent about the medical stuff. Certainly if he actually manages to get the nomination (I strongly doubt it), you would expect the media pressure to REALLY amp up during a general election campaign.

[FlaGranny]

22. My father

had a heart attack at age 71 back in the late 1950's. He died at 89 years old, but not of a heart attack.

[Orrex]

26. Yeah, and I worked with a guy who dropped dead of a heart attack at age 41

Anecdotes are useless here, and your father's happily long life is as irrelevant to the election as my coworkers sadly too-short life.

Sanders must release his medical records; otherwise he is hiding something significant.

Even if Sanders' supporters refuse to believe it, the media will absolutely run with it 24/7 until Sanders is rejected by everyone who hasn't already committed to him.


It's not complicated, honestly. He is (or appears to be) withholding something of profound relevance to his fitness for office. Why?

[FlaGranny]

52. I worked for

a guy who dropped dead at 39. So there!

P.S. He was the administrator of a hospital I worked in. He was loved by the entire staff. The kind of guy that would come into your office, sit down and ask you how things were going.

P.S.S. My own husband had an angioplasty for a blocked artery nearly 30 years ago. He is 80 now. Death is not inevitable after a heart attack.

[Orrex]

53. Your husband, my coworker, and your employer weren't running for president

If they were, then their health records should have been fully disclosed prior to election day.

Obviously death isn't inevitable after a heart attack, but when a 78 year old would-be presidential candidate refuses to address legitimate concerns about his cardiac health, he's hiding something.

Even if he's not hiding something, he might as well be, because he's deliberately making it look as though he is.

[FlaGranny]

54. That's true

but heart attacks are not a death sentence like they used to be (unless it's sudden and unexpected - a widowmaker). Since Bernie has already had a heart attack, his doctors know exactly how to treat him and what his prognosis is. Eisenhower had a heart attack in his first term and was reelected. He lived another 14 years after it. Eisenhower would fit right in with today's moderates. Not a bad president. Wish Kamala was going to be our nominee.

[Orrex]

55. Whatever Sanders' prognosis, he should disclose it

Otherwise, he's effectively confirming the worst-case prognosis.

During the impeachment of the idiot fuckhead Trump, people rightly noted that an innocent man does not block the testimony or conceal the evidence that would prove his innocence, so it was reasonable to conclude that Trump's stonewalling was an effort to hide an ugly truth.

A healthy man--especially a healthy 78 year old presidential candidate--isn't going to hide evidence of his good health, so it's reasonable to conclude that he's likewise hiding something unpleasant.

That conclusion may not be correct, but there's literally no reason to take Sanders at his word on this. Some on this board are dedicated Sanders supporters for whom his assurance is sufficient, but Sanders doesn't need to worry about convincing his supporters. Instead, he needs to demonstrate to his prospective supporters that he can handle the physical and mental rigors of the job for which he's trying to apply.

[FlaGranny]

56. From my experience

working in the medical field most of my life, and from personal experience knowing people with heart disease, no way could Sanders campaign as he is with severe or moderate heart disease. Of course, there's no guarantee, but there is no guarantee that a young man won't die from something. He's probably just as healthy as Biden, Warren or Bloomburg. They are all in their 70's and any might have a heart attack out of the blue or some other llfe-threatening medical problem. Heck, they're all old as Pete just dropped out.

[Orrex]

58. His actual health is irrelevant

If he doesn't disclose his medical records, then he is explicitly hiding something. And if he is hiding something, it is reasonable to conclude that it is something negative, potentially campaign-killing.

If he's healthy, then he should disclose this fact in order to end the controversy and to eliminate this pointless uncertainty.

If he is not healthy, then he should disclose that fact because his supporters and his potential voters have a right to know what they're voting for.

If Sanders doesn't disclose, then he's simply begging the press and Trump to swift-boat him.


I'm pretty much done repeating this obvious and, frankly, inescapable point.

[Hoyt]

28. Bet Sanders is getting better care than most at this point. Have lots of concerns with Sander,

but not this. He looked pretty strong at the last debate (physically).

[highplainsdem]

30. It's a safe bet that Sanders was already getting better care than most BEFORE the heart attack,

but it happened anyway.

We need to see those medical records.

[Yeehah]

29. Stay classy! n/t

[KPN]

41. THIS

[milestogo]

31. This is an argument for choosing Elizabeth Warren as his VP.

[highplainsdem]

32. Have you thought about how that sounds to Sanders supporters?

[ehrnst]

34. Or being Warren's VP. She's far more effective and has the

deep respect of her peers.

[milestogo]

35. Well that would be even better.

[Hekate]

36. Maybe he can get hold of Trump's doc for a testimonial. Worked for DT after all. nt

[myohmy2]

39. and...

...to this I say, Sanders, Warren...

...did you see the last debate?...did Bernie seem frail or incapacitated?

...he was kicking ass...he's out there everyday kicking ass and itching for a one-on-one with trump...

...shit, a 30 year old would have a hard time keeping up Bernie...

...I suppose a meteorite could tumble in from outer space and clobber him, but I highly doubt it...

...give me a break, Bernie will out live me...

[k2qb3]

42. I think he's going to release this info.

He's probably trying to get his numbers looking better before he does.

[LizBeth]

45. Sanders stated before the FIRST vote.

[KPN]

43. Getting pretty darned low with those blows. How do you know

Lowplains more appropriate?

[Julian English]

46. We have to ask why has BS failed to anser the really important questions about his health.

BS has avoided answering the questions in any meaningful.

There's an inescapable conclusion for Sander's refusal to answer these questions: BS is afraid the truth about his cardiac status would cost him votes. There is no other good explanation.

If that's then BS is hardly the sort of man we want as the presidential nominee of our Democratic Party.

He needs to come clean, release his health records or he needs to drop out for the good of the nation.

[scipan]

47. This cardiologist obviously never read doc letters

https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1212062702597623808.html

The 3 letters, reviewed by a doctor, plus he reviews Biden's and Warren's letters.

[Progressive dog]

48. Acting like Trump did and hiding his medical records

should not be acceptable to any Democrat.

[scipan]

49. You mean like Biden, right?

Biden put out only doctor's letter.

[Progressive dog]

51. Biden may have no new records to share

unlike the older guy who had the heart attack less than six months ago.

[kwenu]

57. Well this is why we have a vice-president.

The Veep choice will be important in 2020 Dem election cycle. Important to help consolidate the party and give us a back-up we can be comfortable with given this contest of old men.