Howard Fineman: Boy do #Dem Congress leaders despise @BernieSanders .

[octoberlib]

Link to tweet

Boy do #Dem Congress leaders despise
@BernieSanders
. It’s long-standing, visceral, abiding. If he wins, they’ll cringe, distance themselves and, they tell me, have no hope he’ll become a unifying statesman. “He’s a 78-year-old egomaniac,” one told me tonight. “He is what he is.”’

[TheCowsCameHome]

1. Imagine if Trump clobbers him?

Hoo-boy - everyone will be pissed.

[helpisontheway]

5. *WHEN Trump clobbers him...WHEN..nt

[lapfog_1]

53. Trump won't clobber him

but Trump will win the electoral college.

And that is enough for me to oppose him for winning the nomination.

Never mind he is a populist who promises tons of free stuff (and no way to pass any of it or pay for it and no compromise).

Never mind his supporters are, shall we say, a bit over the top... almost cult-like.

Never mind that he is a 78 year old with a bad heart who won't release the records from his cardiologist.

Never mind that he has some of the most odious people working for him... one's that actively encouraged 3rd party votes in the last Presidential election.

He won't beat Trump. Maybe wins the popular vote... but the swing states will swing to Trump.

He might even lose us the House.

[oasis]

63. The only consolation: It'll force Michael Moore to go into hiding. forever.

Get thee gone, annoying toad.

[True Blue American]

72. I am sick

Of Mike and his predictions. Be gone!

[Rebl2]

84. YES PLEASE!!!

[charliea]

91. Hmmph

I approve direction he wants to go, he's an actual supporter of the citizenry, and the country. Yes both he an Warren have plans to pay for their ambitious overhauls. Hers are more specific though. His goals (and Warren's) are supported by the majority of Americans according to polls.

Yes I worry about him and indeed anyone that age, however Trump releases nothing about his health records, peppers them with lies, and after today's press conference looks in worse shape.

I have never met a fabled Bernie Bro extremist, a purist who would vote for no one else, but I'm an old fart in a blue state. As far as I can see they're a figment of the MSM.

Who are these odious people, any specifics? Worse than Faux News or the Trump Administration?

Some current polls show Biden, Buttigieg, Klobuchar, Sanders, and Warren all leading tRump in election polling.

My preference for a particular candidate will not hinder me one bit in voting for the Democratic candidate.

[zackymilly]

23. Yeah, but Bernie and his 3 houses will be fine. n/t

[ramen]

58. about that..

http://rossblocher.com/hosted/candidatewealth.html

[lapucelle]

62. Wow BS is a multimillionaire, not just a millionaire.

2500 times as much money as Mayor Pete.

[peequod]

71. According to Forbes, Pete has 130K in student debt.

Bernie didn't likely start with that burden in life, so if you're trying to make Bernie seem like a hypocrite for calling out billionaires and now your gal, Warren, attempting to buy the election with SuperPac money, while having a very modest fortune in his late 70's, you failed.

[lapucelle]

74. Did you just say E Warren is trying to buy an election?

[lapucelle]

75. Three houses and a "very modest fortune" of $2,500,000...

[Celerity]

100. that 1.7m to 2.5m USD net worth includes his houses, he is nowhere near the top 1% in net worth tbf

I am NOT a Sanders fan, but I am a stickler for comparative truth. Many people in the US and the UK (especially London, where I grew up, and Los Angeles, where I was born) are now technically millionaires due to their houses exploding in value since they bought them years ago. Inflation has made the term millionaire almost meaningless in many circumstances, especially if you are comparing the term to what constituted a millionaire just 30, 40, 50 years ago. My boomer grandparents on my father's side (he is Swedish) bought a flat in central Stockholm (Vasastan) in 1983 for around 310,000 sek (at the time a little over 34,000 USD or so). It is now worth over 12 million krona (around 1.25m USD) If you told them they were 'millionaires' (in the US sense) they would laugh at you. The vast majority of their net worth comes from the flat, which would subject to massive taxes if/when they sell it.

Sanders' total net worth (depending on what you go by) is 1.7 to 2, or 2.5 million USD or so. He has a couple good income years (2016, 2017) due to book sales, which he then turned around and spent a good chunk on his 2nd Vermont property and paying off past debts. He is still one of the least wealthy Senators. If he writes another book, he will surely go up again though.

For comparative purposes:

Joe and Jill Biden reported earning $15.6 million from book deals and speaking engagements since leaving the White House

Jul 11, 2019

https://www.businessinsider.com/bidens-earned-156-million-from-book-deals-speeches-since-2017-2019-7?r=US&IR=T

https://www.investopedia.com/terms/q/quarter.asp

The minimum net worth of the top 1% was roughly $10.4 million, according to Forbes. The top 10%, on the other hand, has a net worth of about $1.2 million. The report also showed that the wealth of the middle class is also rising—about three times in nearly two decades. Assets for this group totaled between $10,000 and $100,000. Despite this, the wealth of the top 1% continues to go beyond that of the middle class. In fact, the top earners hold more wealth than the middle and upper-middle classes put together. This is due to a number of reasons including the fact that these people own more than 50% of the equity in both private and public companies. And they've also benefited from surges in the stock market. These gains help them reinvest their money back into exclusive investments like hedge funds and private equity.

In terms of income per year Sanders made

2014 205,000
2015 240,000
2016 1.1m
2017 1.1m
2018 540,000
2019 ?

2015 and before he was never in the top 1% as a yearly earner, and as a 74 year old, in 2015 , his net worth was less than 750,000 USD


Here is the chart for yearly income and what it takes to qualify for different levels as of 2019 (so for the 2018 tax year)

[lapucelle]

103. My response was specifically to any implication that there is nothing wrong

with one specific candidate being wealthy, while the others with fortunes might be suspect. It reminds me of the line from Animal Farm, "All animals are created equal, but some are more equal than others."

I agree with you that nuance and context are key, but there is nothing nuanced about the graphic that led to this subthread.

[Tumbulu]

88. because he stole electricity from his landlord and let his kid go hungry

and would not actually do any work.

No, he is a nasty kind of guy and very good at the hoodwinking.

[ramen]

83. .. and 1/4 of Biden, who is 3/4 of Warren, who is

etc etc. I'm not upset that some of the candidates have some money, though those last couple seem pretty obscene. I'm linking to that chart because the poster above was asserting that Sanders doesn't care what happens because of his unspeakable wealth. The chart nullifies that baseless argument.

[lapucelle]

89. And?

Those candidates didn't build their brands by implying that people with money are dishonest and motivated purely by greed and self interest.

We even have someone who just posted that Elizabeth Warren is "trying to buy" an election. Whose talking point is that?

[ramen]

102. It's certainly not my talking point, if that us your accusation.

Sanders' message is not that people with money are evil. It is that one of the consequences of the insane income inequality in this country (and elsewhere) leads to some pretty grim stuff.

[lapucelle]

105. Your graphic shows "inequality" via an extremely unrepresentative subset,

the seven candidates for the Democratic nomination.

I was under the impression that your graphic was a direct response to this post about BS owning three houses. After all, it does directly follow that post and was specifically directed to the poster who noted BS's ownership of three homes:

Yeah, but Bernie and his 3 houses will be fine. n/t

about that..

http://rossblocher.com/hosted/candidatewealth.html

If the point of your graphic was to underscore income inequality in this country, a response that acknowledged that "in the US some people own three houses while some own none" may have been more effective.

[ramen]

107. It is indeed a direct response to that.

The relevance of said graphic to the "Sanders has houses" attack seems really clear to me but to pin it down: Sanders does indeed have money, endless amounts more than I ever will. But if we want to 'measure dicks' here then look at how comparatively little money he has when you look at Biden, Warren, Steyer, and Bloomberg. Can you ask a clarifying question if that doesn't make it plain?

[lapucelle]

108. Your explanation speaks to income relativity rather than income inequality. N/T

[Old Terp]

82. He may have to get some very long extension cords

Don't want to spend money on electricity if you can get it for free.

[Tumbulu]

90. i think he has experience pulling that little stunt!

and I don't find it amusing.

[LizBeth]

2. Not only the Democratic leaders. He is what he is.

[bluedye33139]

3. We will have to salvage our future out of whatever happens in this primary.

Sanders is not my first choice, but I am somewhat worried at the closing of ranks against him. If he becomes our nominee, the strong negative is that many Democrats will refuse to support him. I hope that we all get over that if he is the nominee. And Congressional Democrats will have more chance of success with their legislation if Sanders is president, as opposed to Trump. We have to unite as a party, no matter what.

On a personal front, I deleted a very negative statement I made about Sanders today. As I looked at it, I realized it did not represent the best part of my soul or psyche. So I get that people have reservations. I just think that we have to accept reality and make the best possible path forward no matter what.

[TTUBatfan2008]

8. He won't be the nominee...

I think we are about to see a pretty strong momentum shift in favor of Biden. My question is just how long the campaign will drag out and what kind of mess could happen at the convention. Guess we'll see if the momentum shifts enough to give Biden the 2,000 delegates to lock up the nomination before the convention.

[RKP5637]

10. I would be OK with Biden. n/t

[bluedye33139]

16. I have resigned myself to whoever the winner is. I make no predictions myself.

My gut instinct is that delegates for candidates other than Sanders will end up supporting someone with the longer history with the Democratic party when it comes to the convention. I don't really expect Sanders to become the nominee, but I think it is possible.

[Cosmocat]

80. I am not hopeful

Bernie's momentum built at just the right time, he is going to take a VERY commanding lead on Tuesday.

[TTUBatfan2008]

85. I don't think so.

The polling is pretty competitive in a lot of states. Proportional delegate system will not allow him to take a huge lead. Biden is about to get a serious bandwagon effect from South Carolina. So I think we will see a lot of undecided or "soft support" voters decide on Tuesday to vote for Biden instead of Bloomberg or others.

[Rebl2]

87. We can hope

but not so sure

[writes3000]

4. That's a crappy report. Not helpful. I wonder why there isn't a better relationship there though.

Many have worked side by side for decades.

[LizBeth]

25. Sanders equally despises Dems. Haven't we all heard what he has said about us for five decades?

[trueblue2007]

42. why there isn't a better relationship? people have spoken. Hillary said it herself. NO ONE LIKES BS

remember she said it?

https://www.google.com/search?q=hillary+says+NOBODY+LIKES+BERNIE&spell=1&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwir59SQ6PfnAhVBIjQIHZ5WBlEQBSgAegQICxAm&biw=1292&bih=728

[Demsrule86]

46. He will lose the house and he has primaryed Democrats too.

[Fran2020]

6. That's the establishment, attacking Bernie again.

And again and again. Bernie will win because the voters are sick of the establishment attacking progressives like Bernie.

[emmaverybo]

11. Well when you rail against "the establishment" again and again, eventually it rails back.

[Fran2020]

15. Superdelegates, the media. Everyone except the voters is against Bernie.

[bluedye33139]

18. There are voters who are not Sanders supporters. How do you not know this?

[PatSeg]

31. Well that's in the eye of the beholder

I hear positive things about Bernie in the media all the time, but he and his supporters don't take any criticism too well. Meanwhile, constantly calling long time Democrats, many liberals, the "establishment" and inferring they are somehow the enemy is not serving Sanders well. I know it is rubbing me the wrong way.

Playing the victim is not a winning strategy for any candidate.

Welcome to DU however! Its always good to hear many points of view.

[2naSalit]

70. +1

[leftieNanner]

35. You're new here

My response to your post - I'm a very consistent Democratic voter, as is my husband and my two daughters. None of us like Bernie.

[Fran2020]

41. What do you not like? Bernie stands for Democratic priorities and policies.

Is it just because the D versus the I?

[Lucky Luciano]

55. It is exactly the superficial D vs the I.

[leftieNanner]

61. The D vs the I is part of it

But for one thing I think his age and health are a problem. The fact that he won't release his medical records is a huge red flag for me.

I don't like the idea of being hollered at for four years by a cranky old man who wants me to get off his lawn. I think his policies will not work as he has laid them out because he has no way to pay for them and there is no way to get them through Congress. I don't like the way his supporters behave and I did not like the way he handled the election in 2016 (not gonna rehash the last primary).

After the last three plus years of The Orange One, we need someone who will heal our country's wounds and reconnect us with our overseas allies. I just don't see Bernie doing that.

All that being said, if he ends up being our nominee in the general election, I will hold my nose and vote for him.

[2naSalit]

73. +1

[PatSeg]

78. You summed that up nicely

Said pretty much what I've been saying for quite awhile. Like you, it is not just one thing, it is the whole package and the whole package does not add up to a president in my view.

[emmaverybo]

51. The media gave Bernie a free pass while it was bashing and ignoring Biden.

[Fran2020]

54. Media bashing Biden? Ha! Who do you think Fineman is?

He's the establishment media. They hate Bernie.

[PatSeg]

86. You know

Labeling anyone who disagrees with your candidate as "establishment" is not a winning tactic. The Democratic party is a big tent party, but using that term as a dismissive put-down will only serve to shrink the party and help republicans win the White House, take back the House, and keep the senate. It is a Karl Rove/Frank Luntz tactic and should not be used by Democrats.

So many of the good Democrats that get labeled "establishment" are proud progressive liberals, who have helped bring about positive change, while fighting against corporate bought republicans. The vast majority of them would have done far more if they could have, but for years they've had to work with constant obstructionists in congress. So because they couldn't always win, they get labeled "moderates", "centrists", and god-forbid "establishment".

So anyone who wants to see four more years of Donald Trump and possibly a republican controlled congress, keep insulting Democrats. It is hardly a winning strategy.

[Fran2020]

98. Howard Fineman is an establishment figure bashing Bernie Sanders.

I don't really care whether you like the word establishment or not. A lot of people are sick and tired of the establishment shooting down anyone left of center.

[LizBeth]

112. Sanders is the very definition of do nothing establishment. This dawg is old and tired.

[njhoneybadger]

101. Is Bernie stuck in the 60's with all this anti-establishment talk

[OnDoutside]

17. That's the Democratic Party members who fought all their lives for the

Democratic party cause, through many decades when Bernie Sanders was attacking them. What goes around comes around.

[RazBerryBeret]

24. or... maybe...

that's the voice of the wealthy realizing they may have to pay their fair share?

[OnDoutside]

43. Unlikely.

[PatSeg]

33. Yes

Civil rights, women's right, environmental protections, gay rights, fair housing, the Affordable Care Act, marriage equality, voting rights, etc. So many things that we all take for granted every day came from those Democrats that Bernie and his people derisively refer to as the "establishment".

All of a sudden, long time liberal Democrats are called "moderates", often by people who haven't really accomplished much of anything, but they've done it very loudly.

[Mariana]

56. So they'll hurt their own constituents, just to spite Bernie?

I think more highly of of most of them than that.

[OnDoutside]

64. They'll save the House, win the Presidency and give themselves a

fighting chance of the Senate too.

[LizBeth]

27. Seriously? Five decades of Sanders attacking Dems while using their power and resources.

[PatSeg]

34. Welcome to DU!

[treestar]

109. I wonder why the Dam "establishment" let Bernie do this again

They figure he is more of a danger as an independent candidate? I don't see how, since he would not have access to the debates that way. Maybe he could get enough support to make the debates in the general.

It is amazing how his people seem to think that the Democratic "establishment" owes him the nomination.

[fallout87]

37. Dont say the "E" word outloud

It pisses some people off when they hear the truth.

[Mr.Bill]

67. Some of us are old enough to remember

that we wore out the term "Establishment" in the late 60s. Might as well be saying vote for Bernie and everything will be Groovy.

It's about as lame as "Deep State" is now.

I don't vote according to somebody's definition of the boogeyman.

[ChazII]

104. +1 n/t

[SilasSouleII]

95. Kinda like saying the "S" word aloud?

Really pisses off some people when they hear the truth.

[Happy Hoosier]

45. The establishment is people like me.

even is Sanders wins (he won’t) he’ll need people like me.

[Fran2020]

48. When Sanders wins, he will unite Democratic voters.

I don't know who you are or what makes you the establishment. If you are super-rich, then Bernie will raise your taxes, yes.

[Happy Hoosier]

49. Keep dreaming. Bernie burns bridges.

He doesn’t build them.

I am the establishment because I believe in the Democratic party, it’s ideals, and it’s approach. I think Bernie Sanders is a snake oil salesman.

[sheshe2]

52. ...

[redstateblues]

92. How about being a lifelong Democrat and Union member?

If Bernie wins the nomination I will hold my nose, vote blue and against Trump. Bernie has done nothing to win me over.

[zackymilly]

93. Are you a serious poster here? Asking for a friend. n/t

[treestar]

110. no, it's the people who worked

in the party for years, for lesser elections than the Presidency too, who have been involved.

[shadowmayor]

57. Ahh

Must be more of that Unity chorus I've been hearing so much about.

[napi21]

7. I don't know about the egomaniac part. I don't see that, but after demonizing and fighting with

the Dems for decades, what do you expect? Bernie may be thinking that the Dems will support him like the Pubs did for dDT, but he's wrong! Dems don't do that. My orediction is that Bernie wouldn't be able to get ANYTHING passed. He'd be a failure by nature of being an Independent.

[Skittles]

66. I see it

loud and clear

[Shrek]

9. "He is what he is."

I love a deftly-argued tautology.

[madville]

12. Most Super Delegates will not vote for Bernie

That’s the bottom line. His only chance is to win it on the first round with a majority, if not, he’s out and Biden is in. Bernie’s supporters will then either vote for Biden or be assisting Trump to reelection.

[OnDoutside]

44. And they should stand by their beliefs in not giving him their vote. There's no

easy way forward, but the worst way is to let Sanders destroy the Democratic Party in a General.

[Mr.Bill]

68. Of course they won't.

They're the evil Establishment, you know.

[msongs]

13. people who've known him for 50 years know him best.

[Sloumeau]

14. Pretty much all of the Democrats that I meet face to face,

and I know quite a few, do not want Bernie Sanders to be the nominee. They all say basically the same thing. They all say, "He has no chance of beating Trump." They all think that Biden, Warren, Klobuchar, Buttigieg, and Steyer have a better shot. Gabbard they just laugh at, because they consider her a DINO--basically a Republican in Democratic clothing, and Bloomberg has so much baggage that most don't even want to consider him. Most people that I know would be plumb happy if any of the five people that I listed, Biden, Warren, Klobuchar, Buttigieg, or Steyer was nominated. For them, a Bernie Sanders nomination is the nightmare scenario...a sure Trump victory.

They don't see why, if we have Biden, Waren, Klobuchar, Buttigieg, and Steyer, we should end up with Bernie Sanders. Frankly, neither do I.

[First Speaker]

21. Isn't there a "don't" missing from your first sentence?

[Sloumeau]

26. Yes, thank you. I fixed it.

Sometimes when I edit, words just kind of disappear.

[avebury]

19. Sanders has been in the Senate for a long

time and I don’t think he has his name on much legislation. I question whether he will work well with anybody who doesn’t fall into line with him. He may be accurate in some of his assessment of this country but if he won’t won’t work well with others, a Sanders presidency will not be successful. In his own way, he is the far left version of Trump. If the Rethugs were running a far better candidate and Sanders wins the nomination I would have a really hard time voting. His only potential saving grace in his candidacy is the fact that the Rethugs are running Trump.

The majority of the American people want a calm, competent President that can undo a lot of what Trump has done. That is just not Sanders. If McConnell is not voted out of office or the Democrats can’t take back the Senate, a Sanders presidency would drag us from the far right to the far left and McConnell will dig his heels in refusing to let Sanders accomplish anything and we will be left with an angry, shouting President. Sanders is wishful thinking to achieve change but just not realistic.

I will vote for whoever the Democrats nominate but I have zero illusions about Sanders.

[leftieNanner]

38. Excellent Post

Very thoughtful response and I agree with you!

[ramen]

59. What far left?

There is nobody far left in the house or senate. Not a single person. There are some center left and some left but Sanders' policy priorities are Democratic priorities and not some kind of Maoist or Marxist screed.

[Zeus69]

20. Hes very good on the stump

but clear as day that he's a crabby old dude most of the time

[melman]

22. So they "hate" and "cringe" and "distance"

But worry he won't be "unifying"

[LizBeth]

28. He is what he is.

[whathehell]

39. Lol

Yes, they all sound quite "unifying".

[Mariana]

60. Apparently, we are to believe they will harm their constituents out of spite.

I have a hard time believing that.

[HarlanPepper]

29. The ego part of Fineman's tweet is very underrated. Not talked about enough.

[comradebillyboy]

47. Yes many of us feel that way.

[LakeArenal]

30. Bernie threw down the gauntlet with his Democratic Establishment stance

Why should any Establishment Democrat give him any grace?

Unifying... sounds like it’s going well.

[Squinch]

32. This is well known. And long standing. He has little support from his colleagues.

[Me.]

36. "A 78-year-old Egomaniac"

Guess HRC was right/correct...again.

[Kurt V.]

40. that dude is full of shit.

[bucolic_frolic]

50. Yup. The signs are all over it.

[Skittles]

65. they're not the only ones

no indeed

[DeminPennswoods]

69. All those bills Pelosi/House passed that are sitting in Senate

right now? Sanders will support and sign all of them, and then some. If Dems can take the Senate, they will all get a hearing and be passed when Schumer nukes the fillibuster.

Whoever put this comment in Fineman's ear needs to put his/her/their own ego aside and not worry about Sanders.

[bdamomma]

76. that's our corporate media.

rather sickening these people piling on Bernie, when we have a dictator/sex predator in the WH. Rather hypocritical. Those people said the same about FDR, with the new deal.

[Evolve Dammit]

77. Bernie and Liz is the ticket. The Dem "establishment" ain't workin'.

[zentrum]

79. Wonder if they hate him

......because he's so progressive and the comparison is a real problem for them.

[mjvpi]

81. This vitriol has to stop. He is not my choice, but......

There are so many on this site who were so pissed at Bernie supporters who didn’t support Hillary, as was I. Are you going to support him and his supporters should he win the nomination like we expected his supporters to do for Hillary? We have to be the solution to beat Trump. Are we going to go into a convention and tell a quarter of our party to get lost? Hillary won by 3 million voters. Bernie and his supporters are going to be a force at the convention. At the very least he will help shape our platform. We need his supporters and their enthusiasm. Russia is involved in this election via social media. You can bet your ass they just love, and are amplifying this rift. Debate policy. This hate within ur party has to stop.

[octoberlib]

94. I agree the vitriol has to stop. Bernie Sanders needs to stop bashing Democrats for starters.

Bernie Sanders is not a Democrat. The Democratic party owes him nothing and he should have no input whatsoever to the Democratic party platform.

[budkin]

97. Bernie will DESTROY Trump

The amount of panic is laughable. Look at the head to head numbers in the most crucial states.

[highplainsdem]

99. Can't imagine why. LOL.

[PatrickforO]

106. Because he speaks truth to the powerful, which makes the powerful

feel uncomfortable.

Whoever our nominee actually turns out to be, s/he needs to wade in there and really be a leader in making huge reforms to the whole system.

[MyNameGoesHere]

111. Who would have thought that the Independent Senator from Vermont

who has been so supportive of the Democratic Party would not be loved and adored? In my home when someone brings a flamethrower while visiting and proceeds to burn my home down I ask them over for more tea. I have to because they occasionally bring the biscuits and you know that's more important than burning down my house right?