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Joe BidenCongratulations to our presumptive Democratic nominee, Joe Biden!
 

pnwmom

(108,925 posts)
Tue Apr 9, 2019, 09:44 PM Apr 2019

How does Bernie think he's going to convince millions of voters who chose Hillary last time

to switch to him in 2020, instead of one of the many other well qualified candidates?

In 2016 he encouraged his supporters to protest against Hillary during the convention. He didn't campaign for Hillary until September, when he only had 2 events. (He did campaign in earnest in October.) Since 2016, he's made almost no outreach efforts to Hillary supporters and he even re-hired a staffer who announced, days before the election, that she was voting for Jill Stein.

Bernie can't win the MAJORITY of delegates without winning over millions of Hillary voters. How does he think he can manage that?

The reason this matters is because a candidate can't win at the convention without a MAJORITY of delegates. A plurality isn't enough. If there is no majority, then the delegates and the super-delegates will continue to have votes till a candidate with a majority emerges.

It's hard to imagine that this person will be Bernie Sanders, given his lack of attention to the concerns of Hillary voters.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
293 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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How does Bernie think he's going to convince millions of voters who chose Hillary last time (Original Post) pnwmom Apr 2019 OP
I'm not sure he can win the South during primaries Shell_Seas Apr 2019 #1
he isn't. the plan is they will split among others JI7 Apr 2019 #4
and our nominee is not going to beat trump in the south rampartc Apr 2019 #278
We chose her because she was the most qualified person to ever run. MrsCoffee Apr 2019 #282
+1 betsuni Apr 2019 #283
+1,000,000 Kahuna7 Apr 2019 #284
Are you sure about that? Shell_Seas Apr 2019 #285
i would need to be convinced to allow myself such optimism rampartc Apr 2019 #287
That's a BIG assumption!! InAbLuEsTaTe Apr 2019 #2
What's a big assumption? How do you think he will get Hillary voters to switch sides pnwmom Apr 2019 #3
Easy peasy... look no further than Bernie's progressive agenda. InAbLuEsTaTe Apr 2019 #18
That doesn't answer my questions. I'll make it simpler. pnwmom Apr 2019 #24
Love Warren... could see voting for her myself. Just like Bernie slightly better... InAbLuEsTaTe Apr 2019 #27
You know lots of people who supported Hillary over Bernie in the PRIMARIES, pnwmom Apr 2019 #35
No, Elizabeth is WAY more progressive than Hillary...and closer to Bernie on the political spectrum. InAbLuEsTaTe Apr 2019 #40
So what you said makes even less sense. pnwmom Apr 2019 #49
Are you shocked that it makes no sense? BlueFlorida Apr 2019 #55
Because they got over it and moved on Mr Tibbs Apr 2019 #124
They would have absolutely no reason to pick Bernie over a candidate pnwmom Apr 2019 #148
I'm over it.. here's the thing fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me Thekaspervote Apr 2019 #165
Because many if not most people TheFarseer Apr 2019 #164
No, actually Elizabeth Warren is not more progressive than Hillary Clinton. lapucelle Apr 2019 #141
I don't care what ontheissues says... I'll go with what Hillary says, cuz no one knows InAbLuEsTaTe Apr 2019 #144
But even based on your argument, it would make no sense for a Hillary supporter pnwmom Apr 2019 #149
Thank you for finally showing Bernie proper respect by referring to him as a "Democratic Socialist" InAbLuEsTaTe Apr 2019 #154
Democratic socialists are a sub-group of socialists. And he freely describes himself pnwmom Apr 2019 #155
+1000 Thekaspervote Apr 2019 #166
What are you talking about? N/T lapucelle Apr 2019 #151
Or, they might see EW as more attractive a candidate than BS malchickiwick Apr 2019 #230
It doesn't make any sense mcar Apr 2019 #45
i voted HRC last time and am sticking with Joe this time..we need samnsara Apr 2019 #252
Yeah, same... l'd vote for Joe if he somehow managed to get the nom... but in the primary? Never. InAbLuEsTaTe Apr 2019 #254
exactly..there are a lot of other candidates with progressive agendas.. samnsara Apr 2019 #251
What Agenda? Me. Apr 2019 #29
Slogans, Platitudes and Photo-ops nt BlueFlorida Apr 2019 #56
Wow, I did not know that. You should make that an op. Tipperary Apr 2019 #92
I do believe that it is in the mainstream from 2016, but good to be on the surface for 2020 Thekaspervote Apr 2019 #170
And BS's record is less progressive than that of Warren, Harris, Booker, and Gillibrand. lapucelle Apr 2019 #142
Seems Like A Not Trump Form Of 'Illlusion' Going On Here Me. Apr 2019 #162
It's remarkable that some of his supporters are not even aware of his record lapucelle Apr 2019 #194
Awhhh the truth of it!! Painful as it may be Thekaspervote Apr 2019 #168
Warren, Harris, Gillibrand, and Booker all have stronger progressive records than BS. lapucelle Apr 2019 #139
+1000 Power 2 the People Apr 2019 #201
a lot of us felt yelled at last time.. samnsara Apr 2019 #250
Yes, and the time before that... and we moved on. InAbLuEsTaTe Apr 2019 #253
He doesn't need anyone to switch sides FBaggins Apr 2019 #90
Bernie wasn't even close to having a majority of pledged delegates last time, pnwmom Apr 2019 #169
So? Have you not seen a primary before? FBaggins Apr 2019 #172
So? We've already hit peak-Bernie. He's loved now by the same people who loved him last time, pnwmom Apr 2019 #173
Dems don't have winner-take-all primaries thesquanderer Apr 2019 #279
Thank you for the correction FBaggins Apr 2019 #286
re: "when a dozen or more candidates are splitting the remaining delegates" thesquanderer Apr 2019 #288
I also don't think that he'll keep "his" voters FBaggins Apr 2019 #290
How? He didn't even come close the last time. What has changed? Thekaspervote Apr 2019 #176
I don't think he will FBaggins Apr 2019 #183
Polls show Bernie Sanders' popularity among all voters is plummeting Gothmog Apr 2019 #234
Sounds more like wishful thinking! InAbLuEsTaTe Apr 2019 #257
Denial is not just a river in Africa Gothmog Apr 2019 #259
Glad you show Bernie proper respect by recognizing him as "frontrunner"...at least that's progress!! InAbLuEsTaTe Apr 2019 #261
In the real world, these numbers show that sanders is NOT electable Gothmog Apr 2019 #263
A significant portion of sanders support were really non-democrats who will not be back Gothmog Apr 2019 #241
They won't pick BS. Hillary should have been potus- he should have been out there campaigning Thekaspervote Apr 2019 #163
Hillary graciously took responsibility for her heart-wrenching loss... you should accept that. InAbLuEsTaTe Apr 2019 #221
Many real democrats have very long memories Gothmog Apr 2019 #273
True, Hillary should've... soon it'll be Bernie, did've!! InAbLuEsTaTe Apr 2019 #291
So booing Congressman John Lewis will help win Clinton voters in the real world? Gothmog Apr 2019 #218
You can keep saying that over and over and over again... won't make your dreams come true. InAbLuEsTaTe Apr 2019 #220
Have any significant number of African American voters shown up to a sanders event yet? Gothmog Apr 2019 #233
Have you found video of any significant number of African Americans attending a sanders event yet? Gothmog Apr 2019 #239
From my Twitter feed Gothmog Apr 2019 #289
I supported Bernie in 2016; I don't now. This is nonsense. RDANGELO Apr 2019 #5
What is nonsense? Why do you think millions of Hillary voters would switch to Bernie pnwmom Apr 2019 #7
What is the rational reason for Hillary supporters to hold a grudge against Bernie? RDANGELO Apr 2019 #25
Most Hillary supporters I know are reasonable, rational, and fair... they don't hold grudges... InAbLuEsTaTe Apr 2019 #30
... BlueFlorida Apr 2019 #57
I will vote for Bernie if he is the nominee. But I don't know a single Hillary supporter pnwmom Apr 2019 #72
There are many. MrsCoffee Apr 2019 #38
+∞ LongtimeAZDem Apr 2019 #47
lol melman Apr 2019 #63
+ 100 Me. Apr 2019 #97
It's not a matter of holding a grudge. He didn't interest them before and there's no reason pnwmom Apr 2019 #71
That's a reasonable analysis since Hillary supporters would tend to be more moderate. RDANGELO Apr 2019 #79
Yes, why Hillary supporters are more likely to go for Joe. InAbLuEsTaTe Apr 2019 #255
It has little to do with him running against her radical noodle Apr 2019 #75
You nailed it! Thekaspervote Apr 2019 #182
Many MANY reasons, but not allowed to be posted. Amimnoch Apr 2019 #93
I don't think they're holding a grudge. lapucelle Apr 2019 #150
We didn't pick him the first time and now with even more choices we ain't gonna pick him now. UniteFightBack Apr 2019 #157
The rationale is he said he wouldn't play dirty in 2016.. he did. For 2020 he's hired attack dogs Thekaspervote Apr 2019 #181
That is not it. Many including me feel he did not support her properly in the general. Demsrule86 Apr 2019 #205
Absolutely; "because he ran against her" doesn't even come close to describing the issue. LongtimeAZDem Apr 2019 #211
I am surprised that folks don't understand how horrifying the2016 general election was ... Demsrule86 Apr 2019 #212
I'm not, but getting into it is frowned upon LongtimeAZDem Apr 2019 #213
I said election not primary...the election of 16 was heartbreaking Demsrule86 Apr 2019 #223
Two things are different this time thesquanderer Apr 2019 #280
There won't be enough new voters to make up for the 4 million edge Hillary last time. pnwmom Apr 2019 #281
Post removed Post removed Apr 2019 #42
+∞ LongtimeAZDem Apr 2019 #48
I don't know, and I supported him in 2016 before switching to Hillary at the convention, The Velveteen Ocelot Apr 2019 #6
I totally agree. I voted Bernie in primary, then ended up with Hillary. Irishxs Apr 2019 #13
In my view the most intelligent candidate in the whole group is Warren, especailly in regard to her still_one Apr 2019 #19
I like Warren a lot, too. And I think she'd do much better in the general than Bernie would. pnwmom Apr 2019 #73
I agree. still_one Apr 2019 #77
There are many who are not that hung up on the past. dogman Apr 2019 #8
Why would a Hillary voter pick Bernie over one of the others? He's the same candidate pnwmom Apr 2019 #10
They might be sick of t-Rump and want to win. dogman Apr 2019 #15
That would be true in the general. But I don't know any Hillary supporters who think pnwmom Apr 2019 #20
I don't know any Hillary supporters at all, so I don't know what they think. dogman Apr 2019 #26
I know lots of Hillary (and Bernie) supporters, and I don't know a single Hillary supporter pnwmom Apr 2019 #37
There's this. dogman Apr 2019 #44
That's nothing but name recognition at this point. In 2015 very few people would have said pnwmom Apr 2019 #52
Yep, I'm so over the 2016 bickering, its a whole new ballgame now with a ton of good, progressive yaesu Apr 2019 #69
I think that's the point of the OP radical noodle Apr 2019 #78
I was a Hillary supporter True Blue American Apr 2019 #102
No... the past is so yesterday. InAbLuEsTaTe Apr 2019 #59
Past is prologue. lapucelle Apr 2019 #195
Easy. He will appoint Briahna Joy Gray, David Sirota, and Nina Turner to high positions in his still_one Apr 2019 #9
Yep LongtimeAZDem Apr 2019 #51
I also believe Biden can win a general election still_one Apr 2019 #61
Those names hired by BS awesomerwb1 Apr 2019 #80
........................................................................................... still_one Apr 2019 #82
100% True Blue American Apr 2019 #103
Why should he? If he appeals to folks with his messaging, they'll vote for him. Decoy of Fenris Apr 2019 #11
Because he can't win the nomination without a MAJORITY of delegates. pnwmom Apr 2019 #12
Point being, I just don't think he cares. A brokered convention will winnow the field. Decoy of Fenris Apr 2019 #23
Holy Moses! The return of the fabled "BROKERED CONVENTION" Maru Kitteh Apr 2019 #89
I mean I think it's a real possibility this time qazplm135 Apr 2019 #132
Well, golly, how did an electorate which voted for Barack Obama jberryhill Apr 2019 #14
Do you personally know any Hillary voters who are supporting Bernie now? pnwmom Apr 2019 #16
This may come as a shock jberryhill Apr 2019 #21
There's one on this board. But, there are Cha Apr 2019 #22
Wouldn't be me. calimary Apr 2019 #198
A huge factor was the economic collapse that occurred. That helped President Obama tremendously. still_one Apr 2019 #28
From what I've seen on Twitter Cha Apr 2019 #17
You can plug in any of the candidates names Voltaire2 Apr 2019 #32
Riiiiiiight... that's why Bernie leads in the polls among all the declared candidates. InAbLuEsTaTe Apr 2019 #64
If sanders is the nominee, trump wins Gothmog Apr 2019 #274
I trust the voters... who trust Bernie!! Eventually, you'll realize you're wrong about Bernie... InAbLuEsTaTe Apr 2019 #276
How can sanders get the nomination without African American voters? Gothmog Apr 2019 #277
You seem concerned. aidbo Apr 2019 #31
We all are "concerned" about getting Cha Apr 2019 #34
Totally agree. democratisphere Apr 2019 #43
And I don't know it's ... cannabis_flower Apr 2019 #46
Yes, I am. I think a brokered convention is a large possibility, and that will greatly reduce pnwmom Apr 2019 #39
I totally agree that a broakered could nvention will be the death of D win. Social media will Ninga Apr 2019 #256
More like SCARED...not sure why. Bernie's progressive agenda is extremely popular with likely voters InAbLuEsTaTe Apr 2019 #62
He doesn't stand out as progressive anymore. Not against people like Elizabeth. pnwmom Apr 2019 #74
Why mischaracterize Bernie's message? You know full well he doesn't label himself a "socialist"... InAbLuEsTaTe Apr 2019 #91
Democratic socialists are still socialists. You are thinking of "social democrats," like the pnwmom Apr 2019 #108
Nope, BIG difference... please stop mislabeling Bernie, you're being disrespectful to him. InAbLuEsTaTe Apr 2019 #112
I'm not mislabeling him. You are. Democratic socialists ARE socialists, pnwmom Apr 2019 #114
You might want to follow Obama's advice and stop with the circular firing squad... InAbLuEsTaTe Apr 2019 #116
Bernie's already filed to run as an Independent for the Senate in 2024. pnwmom Apr 2019 #117
Yup, change the subject... I don't blame ya. InAbLuEsTaTe Apr 2019 #119
Right. When tens of millions of Hillary supporters decide he's a better candidate pnwmom Apr 2019 #120
Hillary isn't running Mr Tibbs Apr 2019 #131
She ran in 2016, in case you didn't notice. And the people who chose her over him, pnwmom Apr 2019 #134
that's not changing the subject! It points out the fact that he does not see himself as a dem Thekaspervote Apr 2019 #184
Obama was talking about attacks on Biden by a 2016 Sanders supporter Demsrule86 Apr 2019 #206
Labels over substance for 100, Alex Mr Tibbs Apr 2019 #126
Right. That's exactly what Bernie is doing when he insists on the socialist pnwmom Apr 2019 #147
Democratic socialism is heavily regulated capitalism Mr Tibbs Apr 2019 #125
I suppose you can make up your own definition for words, comradebillyboy Apr 2019 #143
Not according to the Democratic Socialists of America. pnwmom Apr 2019 #146
No it is not. Demsrule86 Apr 2019 #207
Thanks pnwmom. I get so tired of people telling me better social services comradebillyboy Apr 2019 #140
Polls show Bernie Sanders' popularity among all voters is plummeting Gothmog Apr 2019 #236
in a very crowded primary, bernie can win the nomination AlexSFCA Apr 2019 #33
How? What makes you think he would win in a brokered convention with only 30% pnwmom Apr 2019 #36
Not only CAN Bernie win the nomination, but he WILL win it... the writing's on the wall. InAbLuEsTaTe Apr 2019 #58
He had huge rallies in '16. Thousands and thousands of people who didn't vote lunamagica Apr 2019 #67
"Rallies are meaningless"... ohhh okayyyyy, whatever you say. InAbLuEsTaTe Apr 2019 #118
I'll tell that to anyone. Crowds are miningless. Just ask President Romney lunamagica Apr 2019 #121
A lot of writing on walls is just graffiti. MineralMan Apr 2019 #95
He is not winning in New Hampshire. Demsrule86 Apr 2019 #209
I think Biden puts an end to this plan. Demsrule86 Apr 2019 #208
Not in the real world Gothmog Apr 2019 #264
surely they will AlexSFCA Apr 2019 #267
I will support the nominee Gothmog Apr 2019 #268
Simple Answer. democratisphere Apr 2019 #41
Everything right now is speculation. Let's cross that road when we come to it. YOHABLO Apr 2019 #50
I was a Hillary voter BlueFlorida Apr 2019 #53
Maybe not you, but many will jump on the "Bernie bandwagon" InAbLuEsTaTe Apr 2019 #60
... BlueFlorida Apr 2019 #65
But you were always a Sanders supporter. You can't talk for Hillary supporters lunamagica Apr 2019 #68
Why not. That seems to be what they are best at. NT WeekiWater Apr 2019 #128
Runaway with the nomination? Naaa Thekaspervote Apr 2019 #186
No or few Clinton voters will support sanders during the primaries Gothmog Apr 2019 #265
Agree. He will not be the nominee. apcalc Apr 2019 #129
Has he changed his party affiliation yet? dhol82 Apr 2019 #54
It's too early to be certain of much. A lot can happen. Jarqui Apr 2019 #66
Agree with every word! This needs to be said. R B Garr Apr 2019 #70
The same way they got millions of Hillary voters to vote for Obama. vsrazdem Apr 2019 #76
Obama didn't make Hillary lose BlueFlorida Apr 2019 #136
+++++++ comradebillyboy Apr 2019 #145
+1000 Thekaspervote Apr 2019 #187
LOL vsrazdem Apr 2019 #197
You might want to check your facts, and stop living in a fantasy world. vsrazdem Apr 2019 #199
+1 very good list treestar Apr 2019 #262
Too bad so many BS voters didn't vote for Hillary in the GE.. Cha Apr 2019 #81
Too bad so many Hillary voters didn't for for Obama in the GE vsrazdem Apr 2019 #200
That has nothing to do with the Cha Apr 2019 #224
The implication is that Bernie voters cost Hillary the election, which is untrue. vsrazdem Apr 2019 #225
Jill Stein is now officially the Ralph Nader of 2016. Cha Apr 2019 #238
With slogans. betsuni Apr 2019 #83
Same way any other candidate would have to quakerboy Apr 2019 #84
Here's the difference: pnwmom Apr 2019 #85
Then you have no worries quakerboy Apr 2019 #87
My concern is that it will be like last time. pnwmom Apr 2019 #88
Since that didnt actually happen last time quakerboy Apr 2019 #244
Actually, it did. There were protesters at the convention, who had arrived there pnwmom Apr 2019 #245
Except it didnt quakerboy Apr 2019 #246
Hillary would have lost fewer Democrats if some of them hadn't walked away after the convention. pnwmom Apr 2019 #247
I doubt even one was lost after the convention quakerboy Apr 2019 #269
Then why did Bernie campaign for Hillary at all if he didn't think it would make a difference? pnwmom Apr 2019 #270
He can't. There's a huge difference between those who Hortensis Apr 2019 #86
Same as it ever was. Picking up enough support from others as they drop out Tom Rinaldo Apr 2019 #94
Thanks for your posting, Tom! RobertDevereaux Apr 2019 #99
With all the qualified candidates out there he's going to have a difficult time... George II Apr 2019 #96
He REALLY should not have left the Democratic Party after 2016...but he did Baltimike Apr 2019 #98
He joined the party again Mr Tibbs Apr 2019 #110
He did? When? nt Baltimike Apr 2019 #122
March 5th Mr Tibbs Apr 2019 #123
But he ran as a Democrat for the Senate and then changed back after he won... Demsrule86 Apr 2019 #210
It really does feel like he was 'kicking us when we were down" when he left in 2016. nt Baltimike Apr 2019 #248
Yes. I will never get over the 16 election and hope we can stop fascist Trump. Demsrule86 Apr 2019 #266
It's now convenient for him Cha Apr 2019 #242
It's about the policy Mr Tibbs Apr 2019 #100
I don't know that he does think that, and he certainly won't. KPN Apr 2019 #101
Do you think winning the nomination is his goal? MH1 Apr 2019 #104
+1 LongtimeAZDem Apr 2019 #105
Yet he is Miles Ahead of every other declared candidate Mr Tibbs Apr 2019 #111
If he gets the nomination, I'll work to see that he wins. But, I'll do everything I can to prevent LongtimeAZDem Apr 2019 #113
I'll vote for the nominee in the general election. It won't be Sanders. nt MH1 Apr 2019 #115
Miles ahead? apcalc Apr 2019 #127
he isn't miles ahead, And an undeclared is ahead of him JI7 Apr 2019 #135
Hopefully better than his supporters did in 2016. namahage Apr 2019 #204
He's the frontrunner Mr Tibbs Apr 2019 #133
Sorry, no he's not. revmclaren Apr 2019 #137
Attend one of his events, and roody Apr 2019 #106
This was the argument last time, but his events never translated into votes. LongtimeAZDem Apr 2019 #109
His events were covered on TV. Most of us don't need to see any more of them. pnwmom Apr 2019 #152
In this primary, how many are planning to vote for Hillary? Nt hughee99 Apr 2019 #107
Good question melman Apr 2019 #138
The real question is how many of Hillary primary voters will switch to Bernie, allowing him pnwmom Apr 2019 #177
I didn't think he would win last time, and I don't think he'll win this time. hughee99 Apr 2019 #189
The problem is that last time he led his followers to think he was going to win pnwmom Apr 2019 #190
His supporters thought they were getting robbed long before the convention, and hughee99 Apr 2019 #191
He doesn't really need to win over Hillary voters in the primary. Ace Rothstein Apr 2019 #130
Wrong. He can't win with just the plurality he got last time. It wasn't enough then pnwmom Apr 2019 #158
If Bernie has the highest delegate count then he should get the nomination. Ace Rothstein Apr 2019 #159
That's not how it works. It won't go to someone who only has 30 or 40% of the delegates pnwmom Apr 2019 #160
"actual Democrats" melman Apr 2019 #167
Actual Democrats don't file as Independents for the Senate in 2024 at the same time pnwmom Apr 2019 #171
But you weren't referring to him melman Apr 2019 #185
Thx.. so true Thekaspervote Apr 2019 #188
That would ensure a Trump victory and tear the party apart. Ace Rothstein Apr 2019 #192
It's looking like a likely possibility. That's why I was grateful that Hillary wasn't running again pnwmom Apr 2019 #193
You keep confusing delegates with voters FBaggins Apr 2019 #202
This is why Superdelegates are necessary LongtimeAZDem Apr 2019 #214
They certainly helped Clinton lock things up early last time around FBaggins Apr 2019 #215
Not going to get lured into "re-fighting the primary" LongtimeAZDem Apr 2019 #219
I have no intention of re-fighting anything FBaggins Apr 2019 #222
There is no reason to think that Bernie will. nt pnwmom Apr 2019 #229
I don't think he will either FBaggins Apr 2019 #232
I can't stand Bernie! leftieNanner Apr 2019 #153
This is likely his last chance at the WH, i am sure he will run 3rd party if he doesnt get D Eliot Rosewater Apr 2019 #226
Well that would suck! leftieNanner Apr 2019 #227
Oh yeah, I am not wrong. Sadly. Eliot Rosewater Apr 2019 #228
A few points TheFarseer Apr 2019 #156
Now he's got a ton of name recognition, and voters have already made up their minds about him, pnwmom Apr 2019 #161
If you said TheFarseer Apr 2019 #179
Some of Bernie voters just didn't like Hillary. There's no telling who they might vote for, pnwmom Apr 2019 #180
Some just didn't like Hillary TheFarseer Apr 2019 #196
If he's the nominee, I will support him... cynatnite Apr 2019 #174
The OP was about the primaries, not the general. n/t pnwmom Apr 2019 #175
I was trying to be polite. :) n/t cynatnite Apr 2019 #178
Does anyone have data that shows how many people Bernie is attracting? Politicub Apr 2019 #203
I agree. The short answer is...no they won't vote for him. Apple Fritter Apr 2019 #216
Polls show Bernie Sanders' popularity among all voters is plummeting Gothmog Apr 2019 #237
There are a large number of real democrats who will not support sanders for that reason Gothmog Apr 2019 #217
k and r nt Stuart G Apr 2019 #231
If we end up with a trump-Sanders election, Bernie will get my vote. Paladin Apr 2019 #235
The Russian effort to target Bernie Sanders supporters in 2016 was more than previously known Gothmog Apr 2019 #240
The Russian push for BS won't be anywhere near as successful this time. SFnomad Apr 2019 #243
i kind of felt yelled at by him during the last election.... samnsara Apr 2019 #249
He won't win PA in the general against Trump and ebbie15644 Apr 2019 #258
Bernie pamdb Apr 2019 #260
a lot of people voted for her due to perceived electablity KayF Apr 2019 #271
From the Hoarse Whisperer Gothmog Apr 2019 #272
Washingont Post-Can Bernie Sanders really win over Trump voters? Gothmog Apr 2019 #275
He won't NastyRiffraff Apr 2019 #292
I doubt that sanders will convert many Clinton voters due to stunts like this Gothmog Apr 2019 #293
 

Shell_Seas

(3,319 posts)
1. I'm not sure he can win the South during primaries
Tue Apr 9, 2019, 09:46 PM
Apr 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

JI7

(89,174 posts)
4. he isn't. the plan is they will split among others
Tue Apr 9, 2019, 09:51 PM
Apr 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

rampartc

(5,264 posts)
278. and our nominee is not going to beat trump in the south
Mon Apr 15, 2019, 06:16 AM
Apr 2019

answering the op : many of ms clinton's supporters chose her because of "electability." how did that work for us?

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

MrsCoffee

(5,801 posts)
282. We chose her because she was the most qualified person to ever run.
Mon Apr 15, 2019, 07:43 AM
Apr 2019

Don’t even go down this bullshit road without mentioning sexism, Russia, Comey, DNC hack, voter purges, blocked recounts, obsessions with her emails and speeches, and a never ending stream of propaganda on social media.

The Comey letter alone cost her three percentage points. If it doesn’t happen, she wins the electoral college.

And how did that scorched earth campaign by her “allied” opponent work out?

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Shell_Seas

(3,319 posts)
285. Are you sure about that?
Mon Apr 15, 2019, 09:01 AM
Apr 2019

Florida and Texas both could be swing states this year.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

rampartc

(5,264 posts)
287. i would need to be convinced to allow myself such optimism
Mon Apr 15, 2019, 09:35 AM
Apr 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

InAbLuEsTaTe

(24,110 posts)
2. That's a BIG assumption!!
Tue Apr 9, 2019, 09:49 PM
Apr 2019

Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

pnwmom

(108,925 posts)
3. What's a big assumption? How do you think he will get Hillary voters to switch sides
Tue Apr 9, 2019, 09:50 PM
Apr 2019

this time, when there are so many other well qualified candidates?

If YOU voted for Hillary last time, what made you pick Bernie this time?

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

InAbLuEsTaTe

(24,110 posts)
18. Easy peasy... look no further than Bernie's progressive agenda.
Tue Apr 9, 2019, 10:16 PM
Apr 2019

Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

pnwmom

(108,925 posts)
24. That doesn't answer my questions. I'll make it simpler.
Tue Apr 9, 2019, 10:19 PM
Apr 2019

Why would a Hillary supporter vote for Bernie over Elizabeth Warren?

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

InAbLuEsTaTe

(24,110 posts)
27. Love Warren... could see voting for her myself. Just like Bernie slightly better...
Tue Apr 9, 2019, 10:26 PM
Apr 2019

Lots of people I know who supported Hillary, prefer Bernie over Elizabeth because of his stand on progressive issues. Personally, I hope they team up
in 2020...


Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

pnwmom

(108,925 posts)
35. You know lots of people who supported Hillary over Bernie in the PRIMARIES,
Tue Apr 9, 2019, 10:32 PM
Apr 2019

but now would choose Bernie over Elizabeth because she's not progressive enough?

That doesn't make sense. Elizabeth is as progressive as Hillary.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

InAbLuEsTaTe

(24,110 posts)
40. No, Elizabeth is WAY more progressive than Hillary...and closer to Bernie on the political spectrum.
Tue Apr 9, 2019, 10:40 PM
Apr 2019

Indeed, Hillary bragged about being moderate and center, which is fine... but, that's not how I would describe Elizabeth. So, if someone is attracted to Elizabeth's policy agenda, Bernie could be seen as an even more attractive candidate.


Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

pnwmom

(108,925 posts)
49. So what you said makes even less sense.
Tue Apr 9, 2019, 11:10 PM
Apr 2019
Lots of people I know who supported Hillary, prefer Bernie over Elizabeth because of his stand on progressive issues.


Why would someone who, in the primaries, supported Hillary over Bernie choose Bernie over Elizabeth?
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

BlueFlorida

(1,532 posts)
55. Are you shocked that it makes no sense?
Tue Apr 9, 2019, 11:14 PM
Apr 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Mr Tibbs

(539 posts)
124. Because they got over it and moved on
Wed Apr 10, 2019, 04:32 PM
Apr 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

pnwmom

(108,925 posts)
148. They would have absolutely no reason to pick Bernie over a candidate
Wed Apr 10, 2019, 07:18 PM
Apr 2019

who was closer in views to Hillary, their first choice in 2016.

And there are SEVERAL running who are much closer to Hillary.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Thekaspervote

(32,606 posts)
165. I'm over it.. here's the thing fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me
Wed Apr 10, 2019, 09:17 PM
Apr 2019

Lesson absolutely learned. Won’t move to part two...

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

TheFarseer

(9,308 posts)
164. Because many if not most people
Wed Apr 10, 2019, 09:14 PM
Apr 2019

Dont care about labels or don’t understand them. Does progressive even mean anything to most voters?

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

lapucelle

(18,039 posts)
141. No, actually Elizabeth Warren is not more progressive than Hillary Clinton.
Wed Apr 10, 2019, 06:58 PM
Apr 2019


Elizabeth Warren is a Hard-Core Liberal

http://www.ontheissues.org/Senate/Elizabeth_Warren.htm




Hillary Clinton is a Hard-Core Liberal

http://www.ontheissues.org/Hillary_Clinton.htm
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

InAbLuEsTaTe

(24,110 posts)
144. I don't care what ontheissues says... I'll go with what Hillary says, cuz no one knows
Wed Apr 10, 2019, 07:15 PM
Apr 2019

better than Hillary what her political leanings were when she was running for President against tRumpy. I trust Hillary knows what she's talking about.


Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

pnwmom

(108,925 posts)
149. But even based on your argument, it would make no sense for a Hillary supporter
Wed Apr 10, 2019, 07:20 PM
Apr 2019

to switch now to "Democratic Socialist" Bernie, when there are actual Democrats like Harris, Warren, Castro, Booker, and Inslee running.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

InAbLuEsTaTe

(24,110 posts)
154. Thank you for finally showing Bernie proper respect by referring to him as a "Democratic Socialist"
Wed Apr 10, 2019, 07:27 PM
Apr 2019

rather than INaccurately calling him a "socialist."


Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

pnwmom

(108,925 posts)
155. Democratic socialists are a sub-group of socialists. And he freely describes himself
Wed Apr 10, 2019, 07:39 PM
Apr 2019

as a socialist. You can keep pretending, but you won't fool many who were old enough to vote for Hillary in 2016.

https://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/article/2015/aug/26/bernie-sanders-socialist-or-democratic-socialist/

We wondered: Were we being inaccurate when we described him as a socialist?

The short answer: It’s akin to calling a honeycrisp an apple — not the most specific description, but not inaccurate. And here’s the kicker: Despite what he calls himself, Sanders isn’t exactly an apple, either.

Sanders’ campaign did not respond to multiple requests for comment. But we found many examples of Sanders describing himself as a democratic socialist, a specific type of socialist who wants public ownership of the means of production (which means the tools and money to make things) and a democratic political system.

But he’s also called himself just a socialist.

That’s because, like Sanders, most democratic socialists use the terms interchangeably, said Joseph Schwartz, vice-chair of the Democratic Socialists of America.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

lapucelle

(18,039 posts)
151. What are you talking about? N/T
Wed Apr 10, 2019, 07:21 PM
Apr 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

malchickiwick

(1,474 posts)
230. Or, they might see EW as more attractive a candidate than BS
Thu Apr 11, 2019, 03:34 PM
Apr 2019

Because of all of his vocal misogynistic supporters.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

mcar

(42,210 posts)
45. It doesn't make any sense
Tue Apr 9, 2019, 11:01 PM
Apr 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

samnsara

(17,570 posts)
252. i voted HRC last time and am sticking with Joe this time..we need
Sat Apr 13, 2019, 09:10 AM
Apr 2019

..someone who may physically punch trump in the nose on stage...besides i like him a lot. Im not thrilled with BS or Warren, I mean they are OK but not what i want in a candidate. BUT if either get the nom they get my vote.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

InAbLuEsTaTe

(24,110 posts)
254. Yeah, same... l'd vote for Joe if he somehow managed to get the nom... but in the primary? Never.
Sat Apr 13, 2019, 09:16 AM
Apr 2019

Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

samnsara

(17,570 posts)
251. exactly..there are a lot of other candidates with progressive agendas..
Sat Apr 13, 2019, 09:06 AM
Apr 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Me.

(35,454 posts)
29. What Agenda?
Tue Apr 9, 2019, 10:27 PM
Apr 2019

For all of his years representing Vermont, Bernie Sanders has passed a total of three bills, and two of them were for naming post offices.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

BlueFlorida

(1,532 posts)
56. Slogans, Platitudes and Photo-ops nt
Tue Apr 9, 2019, 11:15 PM
Apr 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Tipperary

(6,930 posts)
92. Wow, I did not know that. You should make that an op.
Wed Apr 10, 2019, 07:53 AM
Apr 2019

I have never been a fan of Bernie’s and never will, but I think that information would be good to get out in the mainstream.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

Thekaspervote

(32,606 posts)
170. I do believe that it is in the mainstream from 2016, but good to be on the surface for 2020
Wed Apr 10, 2019, 09:24 PM
Apr 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

lapucelle

(18,039 posts)
142. And BS's record is less progressive than that of Warren, Harris, Booker, and Gillibrand.
Wed Apr 10, 2019, 07:00 PM
Apr 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Me.

(35,454 posts)
162. Seems Like A Not Trump Form Of 'Illlusion' Going On Here
Wed Apr 10, 2019, 09:14 PM
Apr 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

lapucelle

(18,039 posts)
194. It's remarkable that some of his supporters are not even aware of his record
Thu Apr 11, 2019, 06:01 AM
Apr 2019

versus the the records of the other candidates.

Hopefully the press will focus more on fact-based information rather than story lines and ready-made narratives.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Thekaspervote

(32,606 posts)
168. Awhhh the truth of it!! Painful as it may be
Wed Apr 10, 2019, 09:20 PM
Apr 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

lapucelle

(18,039 posts)
139. Warren, Harris, Gillibrand, and Booker all have stronger progressive records than BS.
Wed Apr 10, 2019, 06:52 PM
Apr 2019



If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

samnsara

(17,570 posts)
250. a lot of us felt yelled at last time..
Sat Apr 13, 2019, 09:05 AM
Apr 2019

..and there are others with progressive agendas. but all in all who ever it is that gets the nom will get my vote..not necessarily because i LIKE the candidate..but only because they are the nom and we dont want trump.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

InAbLuEsTaTe

(24,110 posts)
253. Yes, and the time before that... and we moved on.
Sat Apr 13, 2019, 09:10 AM
Apr 2019

Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

FBaggins

(26,696 posts)
90. He doesn't need anyone to switch sides
Wed Apr 10, 2019, 07:27 AM
Apr 2019

The “so many other” point actually works in his favor, because you don’t neeed a majority to win a primary.

He could easily get a majority of delegates without adding any Hillary voters... then when he’s the nominee of course they’ll support him.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

pnwmom

(108,925 posts)
169. Bernie wasn't even close to having a majority of pledged delegates last time,
Wed Apr 10, 2019, 09:23 PM
Apr 2019

and this time there are a bunch of non-Hillary people competing with him for anti-Hillary votes. So between those people, and the Hillary voters, Bernie's not going to make it.

And CA, where Hillary did very well, is voting in March this year, not June. And there's going to be one less caucus state for Bernie. Washington state, which chose delegates in caucuses last time around, will have them chosen in a primary instead. And Hillary did much better in the primary than Bernie did, though he won the caucuses. (More than 93% of Washingtonians in a recent poll decided to dump the caucuses.)

As a reminder, Hillary got 2383 pledged delegates in 2016, and she only needed 2026 for the majority. The superdelegates beyond that were just a bonus.



https://www.politico.com/story/2016/06/clinton-delegates-pledged-224044

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

FBaggins

(26,696 posts)
172. So? Have you not seen a primary before?
Wed Apr 10, 2019, 09:28 PM
Apr 2019

You get delegates by winning state primaries... and those don’t require majorities to win.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

pnwmom

(108,925 posts)
173. So? We've already hit peak-Bernie. He's loved now by the same people who loved him last time,
Wed Apr 10, 2019, 09:32 PM
Apr 2019

except for the ones who've moved on to greener pastures -- like those over by Warren, Inslee, Buttigieg, etc.

And he's not going to be getting any converts from the voters who chose Hillary by a 4,000,000 vote margin in the primaries. HRC's primary voters are DONE with B.S.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

thesquanderer

(11,954 posts)
279. Dems don't have winner-take-all primaries
Mon Apr 15, 2019, 06:43 AM
Apr 2019

So even winning a state could get him fewer delegates than he got in a state he lost last time.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

FBaggins

(26,696 posts)
286. Thank you for the correction
Mon Apr 15, 2019, 09:26 AM
Apr 2019

I was aware of the superdelegate rule change but must have missed the change to all proportional distribution.

I wouldn't say that it substantially changes the argument on this thread. Bernie wouldn't need any of "Hillary's voters" (as if that were a thing) in order to win because "Sanders voters" (same caveat) would be enough for a strong lead when a dozen or more candidates are splitting the remaining delegates...

... BUT it dramatically changes my perception of the most likely path for the next 15 months. The chances of a brokered convention hurting us in the general (eating up our fundraising and damaging our eventual nominee) just doubled or tripled in my estimation.

I suspect I'm going to have to deal with more than my share of "your concern is noted" sniping.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

thesquanderer

(11,954 posts)
288. re: "when a dozen or more candidates are splitting the remaining delegates"
Mon Apr 15, 2019, 10:44 AM
Apr 2019

I think it will probably be down to half that by mid March.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

FBaggins

(26,696 posts)
290. I also don't think that he'll keep "his" voters
Mon Apr 15, 2019, 10:46 AM
Apr 2019

or, for that matter, fail to win some voters who preferred Clinton last time around.

I just found the OP's theory to be strange.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

Thekaspervote

(32,606 posts)
176. How? He didn't even come close the last time. What has changed?
Wed Apr 10, 2019, 09:35 PM
Apr 2019

Especially as so many have pointed out, many great candidates to choose from without the baggage

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

FBaggins

(26,696 posts)
183. I don't think he will
Wed Apr 10, 2019, 09:46 PM
Apr 2019

But the OP’s rationale is exactly backwards. The fact that a single opponent is replaced by several doesn’t make it less likely a candidate can win... but more.

Second place in polling is unimpressive when there are only two candidates. Solid second is a great place to be when there are a dozen or more... particularly if the early primaries lean more progressive

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

Gothmog

(143,999 posts)
234. Polls show Bernie Sanders' popularity among all voters is plummeting
Thu Apr 11, 2019, 04:20 PM
Apr 2019



One of the arguments Bernie Sanders' fans made during the 2016 Democratic primary was that he was more electable than Hillary Clinton. His favorable ratings with the general electorate were far higher than Hillary Clinton's. Indeed, Sanders maintained fairly high favorable ratings with all voters as late as 2018.

Sanders' popularity among all voters seems to be declining considerably in the last few months, however.

Our new CNN poll puts Sanders favorable rating at 46% compared to an unfavorable rating of 45% among registered voters. This is only the latest poll to have Sanders at basically even in his net favorability rating (favorable-unfavorable). A Quinnipiac University poll from late December gave the Vermont senator a net favorability of just +2 points. An average of all recent polls put Sanders' net favorability at about -1 points.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

InAbLuEsTaTe

(24,110 posts)
257. Sounds more like wishful thinking!
Sat Apr 13, 2019, 10:03 AM
Apr 2019

Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

Gothmog

(143,999 posts)
259. Denial is not just a river in Africa
Sat Apr 13, 2019, 10:23 AM
Apr 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

InAbLuEsTaTe

(24,110 posts)
261. Glad you show Bernie proper respect by recognizing him as "frontrunner"...at least that's progress!!
Sat Apr 13, 2019, 10:40 AM
Apr 2019

Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

Gothmog

(143,999 posts)
263. In the real world, these numbers show that sanders is NOT electable
Sat Apr 13, 2019, 11:17 AM
Apr 2019

In the the real world, these numbers are bad news for sanders. sanders is not electable in the real world

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Gothmog

(143,999 posts)
241. A significant portion of sanders support were really non-democrats who will not be back
Fri Apr 12, 2019, 07:41 PM
Apr 2019


Without the #neverhillary voters who were not really democrats, sanders will have a very hard time repeating past results
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Thekaspervote

(32,606 posts)
163. They won't pick BS. Hillary should have been potus- he should have been out there campaigning
Wed Apr 10, 2019, 09:14 PM
Apr 2019

Everyday Everywhere like she did for Obama ... didn’t happen.

And you want them support this guy... naaaa!

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

InAbLuEsTaTe

(24,110 posts)
221. Hillary graciously took responsibility for her heart-wrenching loss... you should accept that.
Thu Apr 11, 2019, 01:35 PM
Apr 2019

One thing we should all agree on is to cease with the circular firing squad. We need to stop eating our own!!


Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

Gothmog

(143,999 posts)
273. Many real democrats have very long memories
Sun Apr 14, 2019, 12:21 PM
Apr 2019

Good luck in getting these real Democrats’ support. They have long memories and will not forgive or forget

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

InAbLuEsTaTe

(24,110 posts)
291. True, Hillary should've... soon it'll be Bernie, did've!!
Mon Apr 15, 2019, 11:33 AM
Apr 2019

Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

Gothmog

(143,999 posts)
218. So booing Congressman John Lewis will help win Clinton voters in the real world?
Thu Apr 11, 2019, 01:16 PM
Apr 2019

sanders will not do well in the south and will not be getting any significant African American support

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

InAbLuEsTaTe

(24,110 posts)
220. You can keep saying that over and over and over again... won't make your dreams come true.
Thu Apr 11, 2019, 01:31 PM
Apr 2019

Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

Gothmog

(143,999 posts)
233. Have any significant number of African American voters shown up to a sanders event yet?
Thu Apr 11, 2019, 03:53 PM
Apr 2019

Last edited Thu Apr 11, 2019, 04:33 PM - Edit history (1)








If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Gothmog

(143,999 posts)
239. Have you found video of any significant number of African Americans attending a sanders event yet?
Fri Apr 12, 2019, 03:42 PM
Apr 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Gothmog

(143,999 posts)
289. From my Twitter feed
Mon Apr 15, 2019, 10:45 AM
Apr 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

RDANGELO

(3,430 posts)
5. I supported Bernie in 2016; I don't now. This is nonsense.
Tue Apr 9, 2019, 09:54 PM
Apr 2019

Bernie ran for the nomination; he drew a contrast which should be expected form any major competitor. Hillary won the nomination; Bernie supported her.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

pnwmom

(108,925 posts)
7. What is nonsense? Why do you think millions of Hillary voters would switch to Bernie
Tue Apr 9, 2019, 10:06 PM
Apr 2019

instead of choosing Biden, Harris, Inslee, Castro, Klobuchar, or one of the others?

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

RDANGELO

(3,430 posts)
25. What is the rational reason for Hillary supporters to hold a grudge against Bernie?
Tue Apr 9, 2019, 10:22 PM
Apr 2019

If there are Hillary supporters who wont consider Bernie because he ran against her in 2016, I don't think that is a rational reason. What exactly do you expect Bernie to do?

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

InAbLuEsTaTe

(24,110 posts)
30. Most Hillary supporters I know are reasonable, rational, and fair... they don't hold grudges...
Tue Apr 9, 2019, 10:28 PM
Apr 2019

that would be self-defeating.


Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

BlueFlorida

(1,532 posts)
57. ...
Tue Apr 9, 2019, 11:18 PM
Apr 2019


Most Hillary supporters I know despise Bernie and are contemptuous.

I'll vote for Bernie in the GE if he is the nominee but none of my Hillary supporter friends will. They will not vote in the POTUS box and vote for down the ballot Democrats.

Bernie might as well drop out in my opinion unless Old Towne Media needs the profits.

https://vtdigger.org/2016/07/15/sanders-campaign-millions-go-to-mystery-firm/
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

pnwmom

(108,925 posts)
72. I will vote for Bernie if he is the nominee. But I don't know a single Hillary supporter
Wed Apr 10, 2019, 12:51 AM
Apr 2019

who would pick him in the primaries. And I have friends who supported Bernie last time who are more interested in other candidates now, like Warren and Mayor Pete.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

MrsCoffee

(5,801 posts)
38. There are many.
Tue Apr 9, 2019, 10:37 PM
Apr 2019

But we aren't allowed to talk about them here.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

pnwmom

(108,925 posts)
71. It's not a matter of holding a grudge. He didn't interest them before and there's no reason
Wed Apr 10, 2019, 12:49 AM
Apr 2019

to think they'll choose him this time, over one of the many other excellent candidates.

He's presenting almost the same spiel as last time around. It didn't work then and it won't work now. Not to win a MAJORITY.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

RDANGELO

(3,430 posts)
79. That's a reasonable analysis since Hillary supporters would tend to be more moderate.
Wed Apr 10, 2019, 01:14 AM
Apr 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

InAbLuEsTaTe

(24,110 posts)
255. Yes, why Hillary supporters are more likely to go for Joe.
Sat Apr 13, 2019, 09:18 AM
Apr 2019

Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

radical noodle

(7,990 posts)
75. It has little to do with him running against her
Wed Apr 10, 2019, 12:58 AM
Apr 2019

and more to do with the way he reacted to losing to her.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Amimnoch

(4,558 posts)
93. Many MANY reasons, but not allowed to be posted.
Wed Apr 10, 2019, 08:19 AM
Apr 2019

Most of the ones that would be stated would fall under "don't keep fighting the last Democratic presidential primary" or "don't bash Democratic public figures". Those are the rules, and we adhere to them.

Without breaking the rule, I am one, and many here are (read through the posts, PLENTY of evidence), and many out in Twitter are, and I personally know quite a few who will not support him. More than a few won't support him under ANY condition.

ANY Democratic Party candidate or bust.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

lapucelle

(18,039 posts)
150. I don't think they're holding a grudge.
Wed Apr 10, 2019, 07:20 PM
Apr 2019

There are other candidates who have a much stronger record than he does and better reputations for collegiality, which is an important leadership quality.

In addition, there are genuine concerns over his work ethic, pro-gun votes, sponsorship for funding of the military-industrial complex, and his problematic votes on Russia sanctions, including his having missed the most recent vote.

It took a deliberately leaked letter signed by 24 whistle blowers for him to finally address allegations of a pervasive predatory culture, discrimination, harassment, and sexual violence in his previous campaign.

Finally, having hired a campaign staff made up primarily of virulent anti- Democratic Party operatives and Jill Stein supporters, he has made it abundantly clear that he does not have the requisite judgment for so high an office.





If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

UniteFightBack

(8,231 posts)
157. We didn't pick him the first time and now with even more choices we ain't gonna pick him now.
Wed Apr 10, 2019, 07:53 PM
Apr 2019

Maybe it's a grudge for some but for me it just is what it is.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Thekaspervote

(32,606 posts)
181. The rationale is he said he wouldn't play dirty in 2016.. he did. For 2020 he's hired attack dogs
Wed Apr 10, 2019, 09:43 PM
Apr 2019

The likes of sirota. I don’t call that holding a grudge. It’s called wising up!

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Demsrule86

(68,351 posts)
205. That is not it. Many including me feel he did not support her properly in the general.
Thu Apr 11, 2019, 12:29 PM
Apr 2019

I vote for Sanders in a general but not in a primary.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

LongtimeAZDem

(4,494 posts)
211. Absolutely; "because he ran against her" doesn't even come close to describing the issue.
Thu Apr 11, 2019, 12:42 PM
Apr 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Demsrule86

(68,351 posts)
212. I am surprised that folks don't understand how horrifying the2016 general election was ...
Thu Apr 11, 2019, 12:52 PM
Apr 2019

Last edited Thu Apr 11, 2019, 01:45 PM - Edit history (2)

Trump was elected...the worst president ever.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

LongtimeAZDem

(4,494 posts)
213. I'm not, but getting into it is frowned upon
Thu Apr 11, 2019, 12:54 PM
Apr 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Demsrule86

(68,351 posts)
223. I said election not primary...the election of 16 was heartbreaking
Thu Apr 11, 2019, 01:42 PM
Apr 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

thesquanderer

(11,954 posts)
280. Two things are different this time
Mon Apr 15, 2019, 06:56 AM
Apr 2019

One thing is that there may have been people who voted for Hillary last time even if they preferred Bernie, because they thought Bernie didn't have a chance, especially in the early part of the cycle. Voting for him seemed more like merely making a statement. This time, he's actually seen as a credible candidate.

Also, there are 4 more years worth of young voters now able to vote for the first time, this gives Bernie a fresh pool of new potential voters who he can draw from who weren't Hillary voters last time.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

pnwmom

(108,925 posts)
281. There won't be enough new voters to make up for the 4 million edge Hillary last time.
Mon Apr 15, 2019, 07:12 AM
Apr 2019

And while there is a new group of young voters, there are now 3 thirty-something candidates who might interest them, too. And Bernie will have fewer caucuses to participate in, the only places where he really shined last time. My state of WA is one that has just switched to picking delegates from our primary. And our primary last time chose Hillary, even though all of our delegates went to Bernie, through the caucuses. That won't happen again.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

Response to RDANGELO (Reply #5)

 

The Velveteen Ocelot

(115,280 posts)
6. I don't know, and I supported him in 2016 before switching to Hillary at the convention,
Tue Apr 9, 2019, 10:02 PM
Apr 2019

but I won't this time. Then, the choice was binary - Hillary or Bernie. It's a whole different scenario now. Even for those who are looking for a "progressive" candidate there are highly-qualified alternatives to Bernie, like Harris and Warren. Warren in particular checks all the economic-progressivism boxes, and she's at least as qualified (and less burdened with Bernie's divisive baggage and lack of tax returns). I haven't made a choice yet, except that it definitely won't be Bernie, Gabbard or any of the vanity candidates like Williamson or Yang.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Irishxs

(622 posts)
13. I totally agree. I voted Bernie in primary, then ended up with Hillary.
Tue Apr 9, 2019, 10:13 PM
Apr 2019

This time it’s a much different choice. My “no way” list includes gabbard, yang, gillibrand, booker, and a few more, probably also bernie. I want a fighter who can whoop up on potatohead.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

still_one

(91,959 posts)
19. In my view the most intelligent candidate in the whole group is Warren, especailly in regard to her
Tue Apr 9, 2019, 10:16 PM
Apr 2019

grasp of economic issues, and how to solve them.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

pnwmom

(108,925 posts)
73. I like Warren a lot, too. And I think she'd do much better in the general than Bernie would.
Wed Apr 10, 2019, 12:52 AM
Apr 2019

But I think that about several of the candidates.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

dogman

(6,073 posts)
8. There are many who are not that hung up on the past.
Tue Apr 9, 2019, 10:06 PM
Apr 2019

Much of the Country does not dwell there.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

pnwmom

(108,925 posts)
10. Why would a Hillary voter pick Bernie over one of the others? He's the same candidate
Tue Apr 9, 2019, 10:08 PM
Apr 2019

who they didn't choose last time. And he's made no effort at outreach.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

dogman

(6,073 posts)
15. They might be sick of t-Rump and want to win.
Tue Apr 9, 2019, 10:14 PM
Apr 2019

He is second choice for a few candidate's supporters, the field will ween. We'll see who has the delegates at the convention. His outreach is a strong, clear, consistent message. If you don't buy what he is selling, you can go elsewhere, that's what it's all about.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

pnwmom

(108,925 posts)
20. That would be true in the general. But I don't know any Hillary supporters who think
Tue Apr 9, 2019, 10:17 PM
Apr 2019

Bernie is the strongest candidate to beat Trump.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

dogman

(6,073 posts)
26. I don't know any Hillary supporters at all, so I don't know what they think.
Tue Apr 9, 2019, 10:26 PM
Apr 2019

I know a few Bernie supporters who are looking at other candidates, but those candidates have no movement yet and I think their will be a thinning or a brokered convention might be possible. Looking at polling I just can't believe people in the real world are as hung up on 2016 bickering.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

pnwmom

(108,925 posts)
37. I know lots of Hillary (and Bernie) supporters, and I don't know a single Hillary supporter
Tue Apr 9, 2019, 10:36 PM
Apr 2019

in the primaries who's interested in Bernie this time around.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

dogman

(6,073 posts)
44. There's this.
Tue Apr 9, 2019, 10:54 PM
Apr 2019
https://www.democraticunderground.com/128761656

If that holds, People will be start to think about this early next year. A clearer picture will evolve. Right now the lesser candidates are being hindered by the polls including Biden. With him listed, many don't stand a chance of rising, which boosts funding. He is scaring away some support, I think.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

pnwmom

(108,925 posts)
52. That's nothing but name recognition at this point. In 2015 very few people would have said
Tue Apr 9, 2019, 11:13 PM
Apr 2019

Sen. Bernie Sanders of VT would have had a chance.

We don't know who's going to move ahead of the pack once the debates and primaries begin.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

yaesu

(8,020 posts)
69. Yep, I'm so over the 2016 bickering, its a whole new ballgame now with a ton of good, progressive
Wed Apr 10, 2019, 12:10 AM
Apr 2019

candidates so the point of this thread is quite outdated.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

radical noodle

(7,990 posts)
78. I think that's the point of the OP
Wed Apr 10, 2019, 01:11 AM
Apr 2019

There are a ton of good, progressive candidates from whom to choose so Hillary voters would be unlikely to pick Sanders this time.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

True Blue American

(17,972 posts)
102. I was a Hillary supporter
Wed Apr 10, 2019, 11:13 AM
Apr 2019

But that is 2016. Now I want to see how the fresh field works out. I have no intention of fighting the last last election. Not even 2018. I want to win in 2020.

Retreads are not for me.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

InAbLuEsTaTe

(24,110 posts)
59. No... the past is so yesterday.
Tue Apr 9, 2019, 11:31 PM
Apr 2019

Last edited Thu Apr 11, 2019, 07:46 AM - Edit history (1)


Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

still_one

(91,959 posts)
9. Easy. He will appoint Briahna Joy Gray, David Sirota, and Nina Turner to high positions in his
Tue Apr 9, 2019, 10:06 PM
Apr 2019

campaign, and all who not only voted for Jill Stein in 2016, but encouraged others to do , up until the day before the election.

Oh he is a "real uniter" alright.

If Sanders wasn't in the race, I wouldn't want Biden to run, but since he is, I want Biden in the race, because I believe that will stop Sanders from getting the nomination in a brokered convention.

I am not just saying this because I think he is a divisionary candidate among Democrats, but because I believe if he got the nomination, we would lose the general election, because he would not be able to succeed in any red or purple states.



If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

still_one

(91,959 posts)
61. I also believe Biden can win a general election
Tue Apr 9, 2019, 11:38 PM
Apr 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

awesomerwb1

(4,256 posts)
80. Those names hired by BS
Wed Apr 10, 2019, 01:14 AM
Apr 2019

That is a big a turn off for myself and my circle of political friends as there will ever be.

I could actually see BS hiring Candace Owens for a Minority Outreach position at this point.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

still_one

(91,959 posts)
82. ...........................................................................................
Wed Apr 10, 2019, 01:19 AM
Apr 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Decoy of Fenris

(1,954 posts)
11. Why should he? If he appeals to folks with his messaging, they'll vote for him.
Tue Apr 9, 2019, 10:09 PM
Apr 2019

Sanders doesn't strike me as the type to do much meaningless, simpleminded pandering, and Clinton supporters don't strike me as the type of people to take the hook on a pander even if it's offered. They'll either support him on policy and/or actions, or they won't, same as with any other candidate. If it goes to delegate votes, then so be it.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

pnwmom

(108,925 posts)
12. Because he can't win the nomination without a MAJORITY of delegates.
Tue Apr 9, 2019, 10:11 PM
Apr 2019

And he can't get that majority without getting millions of Hillary voters to pick him over someone else.

He lost to her by 4 million votes last time. That's a pretty big hole to dig out of, and he won't manage that without getting some Hillary votes this time.

If it goes to a brokered convention, someone like Biden -- who is much more conservative than Bernie -- will win. Maybe that's Bernie's actual goal, but it seems unlikely.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Decoy of Fenris

(1,954 posts)
23. Point being, I just don't think he cares. A brokered convention will winnow the field.
Tue Apr 9, 2019, 10:17 PM
Apr 2019

I wouldn't be sweating too hard over it if I were in his place either. Truth told, I think once Biden announces, Sanders will have very little chance regardless of any pandering he stoops to and I think he knows that.


ON EDIT: You edited in on the brokered convention, and I'm in 100% agreement with that part. If I were Sanders, I'd bank on a brokered convention to winnow Warren, Beto and Buttigieg (spelling) supporters, trying to pick them up to make up the difference.

SECOND EDIT: Corrected Buttigieg's spelling.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

Maru Kitteh

(28,303 posts)
89. Holy Moses! The return of the fabled "BROKERED CONVENTION"
Wed Apr 10, 2019, 04:23 AM
Apr 2019

Ya - still no.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

qazplm135

(7,447 posts)
132. I mean I think it's a real possibility this time
Wed Apr 10, 2019, 04:52 PM
Apr 2019

I think you see Biden and Bernie drop into the teens, and one or two others in the teens and you might have a four way of folks who all get significant numbers of delegates.

Then you have one of two scenarios...one of the candidates dropping out and throwing support to another (perhaps in exchange for VP consideration), or you have a convention with no one with the requisite number of votes.

If someone breaks out, then yeah that will be that, but I don't see one person pulling away by a significant margin.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

jberryhill

(62,444 posts)
14. Well, golly, how did an electorate which voted for Barack Obama
Tue Apr 9, 2019, 10:13 PM
Apr 2019

...subsequently lose a chunk of votes to Donald Trump?

How did we go from Ronald Reagan to Bill Clinton.

How is Joe Lieberman looking as a VP pick in retrospect?

Shit happens.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

pnwmom

(108,925 posts)
16. Do you personally know any Hillary voters who are supporting Bernie now?
Tue Apr 9, 2019, 10:14 PM
Apr 2019

If so, why are they supporting him this time instead of someone else?

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

jberryhill

(62,444 posts)
21. This may come as a shock
Tue Apr 9, 2019, 10:17 PM
Apr 2019

But I do not generally poll persons I know about their primary voting preferences.

The number of persons whom I personally know, in general, is not a substantial voting block, nor would it be representative of anything in particular if I did know their voting histories.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Cha

(295,912 posts)
22. There's one on this board. But, there are
Tue Apr 9, 2019, 10:17 PM
Apr 2019

many more who supported BS and have now moved on for one reason or another.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

calimary

(80,699 posts)
198. Wouldn't be me.
Thu Apr 11, 2019, 11:28 AM
Apr 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

still_one

(91,959 posts)
28. A huge factor was the economic collapse that occurred. That helped President Obama tremendously.
Tue Apr 9, 2019, 10:27 PM
Apr 2019

There are reasons that favored Bill Clinton also, a big one was anger toward George H. Bush in increasing taxes, which divided republicans, plus Perot's third party run, which also helped Bill Clinton.

Forgetting what we know about Lieberman now, he was a terrible pick before that. He brought nothing to the table, and in the debates he came across very badly. No energy and no fight. Gore made a terrible decision along with his advisors on that choice.

Ironically, McCain chose Palin, and they had Lieberman tutoring her in foreign affairs. That is what I call Karma.


However, your point is a good one, unexpected things happen

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Cha

(295,912 posts)
17. From what I've seen on Twitter
Tue Apr 9, 2019, 10:15 PM
Apr 2019

and here most Democratic Voters are choosing other candidates than BS.

Fortunately, we have a wide range of excellent choices.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Voltaire2

(12,626 posts)
32. You can plug in any of the candidates names
Tue Apr 9, 2019, 10:29 PM
Apr 2019

into that statement and it would be equally valid. At this point nobody is polling above 35%.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

InAbLuEsTaTe

(24,110 posts)
64. Riiiiiiight... that's why Bernie leads in the polls among all the declared candidates.
Tue Apr 9, 2019, 11:42 PM
Apr 2019

Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

Gothmog

(143,999 posts)
274. If sanders is the nominee, trump wins
Sun Apr 14, 2019, 03:31 PM
Apr 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

InAbLuEsTaTe

(24,110 posts)
276. I trust the voters... who trust Bernie!! Eventually, you'll realize you're wrong about Bernie...
Sun Apr 14, 2019, 06:28 PM
Apr 2019

hopefully, before President Sanders' reelection in 2024.


Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

Gothmog

(143,999 posts)
277. How can sanders get the nomination without African American voters?
Mon Apr 15, 2019, 01:35 AM
Apr 2019

I will support the nominee of the party but too many real democrats have long memories and these real democrats will not forgive or forget

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

aidbo

(2,328 posts)
31. You seem concerned.
Tue Apr 9, 2019, 10:28 PM
Apr 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

Cha

(295,912 posts)
34. We all are "concerned" about getting
Tue Apr 9, 2019, 10:31 PM
Apr 2019

the best candidate to beat the freakshow fascist.

And, I don't think it's BS.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

cannabis_flower

(3,764 posts)
46. And I don't know it's ...
Tue Apr 9, 2019, 11:07 PM
Apr 2019

Joe Biden either. I would vote for Joe in the General Election but I probably won't be supporting him. I'm not sure who I'm for in the primary yet. I only know who it won't be...

Won't be Tulsi Gabbard, won't be Kirsten Gillibrand, won't be Marianne Williamson.

I voted for Bernie Sanders in the primary last time but not sure if I will again.

I like Elizabeth Warren also. I don't know enough about the rest of them to rule them in or out.

However, any of them that wins will have my vote in the General Election

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

pnwmom

(108,925 posts)
39. Yes, I am. I think a brokered convention is a large possibility, and that will greatly reduce
Tue Apr 9, 2019, 10:38 PM
Apr 2019

our chances to beat Trump.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Ninga

(8,266 posts)
256. I totally agree that a broakered could nvention will be the death of D win. Social media will
Sat Apr 13, 2019, 10:03 AM
Apr 2019

convey the discord to an extreme so much so, that D's will eat their own.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

InAbLuEsTaTe

(24,110 posts)
62. More like SCARED...not sure why. Bernie's progressive agenda is extremely popular with likely voters
Tue Apr 9, 2019, 11:40 PM
Apr 2019

Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

pnwmom

(108,925 posts)
74. He doesn't stand out as progressive anymore. Not against people like Elizabeth.
Wed Apr 10, 2019, 12:53 AM
Apr 2019

Other than on his insistence in sticking to a label, "socialist," that turns off even more voters than it attracts.

Warren is too smart to do that.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

InAbLuEsTaTe

(24,110 posts)
91. Why mischaracterize Bernie's message? You know full well he doesn't label himself a "socialist"...
Wed Apr 10, 2019, 07:52 AM
Apr 2019

he refers to himself as a "DEMOCRATIC socialist"... in the mold of FDR. There's a BIG difference!!

So, if you're going to bash Bernie, at least be accurate. I see absolutely NOTHING wrong with Democratic socialism. Bernie wears the "Democratic socialist" badge proudly... as he SHOULD!! This also accounts for why AOC is widely popular... her agenda promoting Democratic socialism is how she was able to knock off the #3 Democrat in the House and why, without a doubt, she is a President in the making.

Other Democrats would be SMART to embrace the label... even Elizabeth, whom I obviously love!!


Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

pnwmom

(108,925 posts)
108. Democratic socialists are still socialists. You are thinking of "social democrats," like the
Wed Apr 10, 2019, 01:02 PM
Apr 2019

Scandinavians. They practice a well-regulated capitalism, with a safety net. Like FDR Democrats.

If Bernie is really just an FDR Democrat, and not a socialist, that's what he should call himself. But Bernie insists on calling himself a Democratic Socialist, and they ARE socialists. You can see what the views are by looking at their website.


From the Democratic Socialists of America

https://www.dsausa.org/about-us/what-is-democratic-socialism/#govt

Today, corporate executives who answer only to themselves and a few wealthy stockholders make basic economic decisions affecting millions of people. Resources are used to make money for capitalists rather than to meet human needs. We believe that the workers and consumers who are affected by economic institutions should own and control them.

Social ownership could take many forms, such as worker-owned cooperatives or publicly owned enterprises managed by workers and consumer representatives. Democratic socialists favor as much decentralization as possible. While the large concentrations of capital in industries such as energy and steel may necessitate some form of state ownership, many consumer-goods industries might be best run as cooperatives.



https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2018/09/03/what-would-a-socialist-america-look-like-219626

Democratic socialism is about expanding democracy.
David Duhalde is the senior electoral manager for Our Revolution, the Sanders-inspired progressive nonprofit.

The often-ignored core of how we would implement socialism is the expansion of who makes decisions in society and how, including the democratic ownership of the workplace. Democratic socialism in the United States is as much about expanding democracy as it is anything else.

In the short term, socialists, like liberals, want to protect, strengthen, and expand social services and public goods. We do so, however, not just because those programs are humane, but to move us toward a social democracy where people’s lives are less bound to the whims of the so-called free market. Universal health care and a jobs guarantee, two seemingly radical ideas that are in fact currently before the Senate, would be just the first steps toward social democracy.

Establishing democratic socialism means democratizing ownership of capital, our jobs and our personal lives. Socialists believe that if you work somewhere, you should have a say it in how it’s run. Through unions, worker councils and elected boards, this is possible at the company level today. Furthermore, if your labor generates profit, under socialism you would have an ownership stake and a democratic say in how your workplace is run. Co-ops and public enterprises like Mandragon in the Basque country, Cooperation Jackson in Mississippi and Red Emma’s in Baltimore give us a partial glimpse into what such ownership could look like. This type of democratized economy would grant autonomy to historically neglected communities, and it would be the foundation of any socialist United States.


https://jacobinmag.com/2018/08/democratic-socialism-social-democracy-nordic-countries

But absolute numbers are always deceptive out of their context. There are about 2.8 million total employed workers in Norway. Just 10 percent of the employed workforce work in these state-owned enterprises. The public sector in general employs about 30 percent of the workforce, the highest proportion in the capitalist world.

While this is surely a lot in comparison to other capitalist democracies, the Norwegian state still leaves the significant majority of workers working in capitalist firms for their survival. This is even more so the case in the other social democracies.

Democratic socialism, on the other hand, should involve public ownership over the vast majority of the productive assets of society, the elimination of the fact that workers are forced into the labor market to work for those who privately own those productive assets, and stronger democratic institutions not just within the state but within workplaces and communities as well. Our characterization of democratic socialism represents a profound deepening of democracy in the economy.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

InAbLuEsTaTe

(24,110 posts)
112. Nope, BIG difference... please stop mislabeling Bernie, you're being disrespectful to him.
Wed Apr 10, 2019, 01:16 PM
Apr 2019

Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

pnwmom

(108,925 posts)
114. I'm not mislabeling him. You are. Democratic socialists ARE socialists,
Wed Apr 10, 2019, 01:29 PM
Apr 2019

according to their own website. And according to Our Revolution.

If Bernie views himself as a Social Democrat that's what he should call himself, but he doesn't.

https://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/article/2015/aug/26/bernie-sanders-socialist-or-democratic-socialist/

Sanders’ campaign did not respond to multiple requests for comment. But we found many examples of Sanders describing himself as a democratic socialist, a specific type of socialist who wants public ownership of the means of production (which means the tools and money to make things) and a democratic political system.

But he’s also called himself just a socialist.

That’s because, like Sanders, most democratic socialists use the terms interchangeably, said Joseph Schwartz, vice-chair of the Democratic Socialists of America.

"When Bernie is asked, ‘Are you a socialist?’ he doesn't deny it, and he immediately talks about Scandinavia. He uses them interchangeably. But if you look at his history, he knows the distinction," Schwartz said.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

InAbLuEsTaTe

(24,110 posts)
116. You might want to follow Obama's advice and stop with the circular firing squad...
Wed Apr 10, 2019, 01:39 PM
Apr 2019

We need to unite, not eat our own... it starts with showing Bernie proper respect!!


Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

pnwmom

(108,925 posts)
117. Bernie's already filed to run as an Independent for the Senate in 2024.
Wed Apr 10, 2019, 01:42 PM
Apr 2019

Maybe he should follow Obama's advice and join the Democrats, instead of just using the party every 4 years.

That would be unifying.

https://www.npr.org/2019/03/04/700121429/bernie-sanders-files-to-run-as-a-democrat-and-an-independent

Bernie Sanders filed Monday to be a candidate for the Senate in 2024 — as an independent.

But last month, Sanders filed as a Democrat for president.

It's not unusual for candidates to file with the Federal Election Commission for re-election to their current office, which allows them to begin raising money. Most candidates file shortly after Election Day, in fact.

But with Sanders, it creates the odd situation of having a high-profile presidential candidate file to run for two different offices with different parties, just as the Democratic Party is adopting rules mandating presidential candidates take something of a loyalty pledge.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

InAbLuEsTaTe

(24,110 posts)
119. Yup, change the subject... I don't blame ya.
Wed Apr 10, 2019, 01:46 PM
Apr 2019

BTW, Bernie will be the Democratic President in 2024... that's all we need to know.


Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

pnwmom

(108,925 posts)
120. Right. When tens of millions of Hillary supporters decide he's a better candidate
Wed Apr 10, 2019, 01:48 PM
Apr 2019

to vote for than Warren, Harris, and all the other contenders.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Mr Tibbs

(539 posts)
131. Hillary isn't running
Wed Apr 10, 2019, 04:50 PM
Apr 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

pnwmom

(108,925 posts)
134. She ran in 2016, in case you didn't notice. And the people who chose her over him,
Wed Apr 10, 2019, 05:10 PM
Apr 2019

by a margin of 4 million votes, are extremely unlikely to decide to back him this time.

Nothing has happened in the interim to endear Bernie to them, and several compelling contenders are likely to win their votes.

That means that Bernie will be stuck with, at best, a plurality; but a majority is required at the convention or else the superdelegates weigh in. And they're not going to choose Bernie either.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Thekaspervote

(32,606 posts)
184. that's not changing the subject! It points out the fact that he does not see himself as a dem
Wed Apr 10, 2019, 09:58 PM
Apr 2019

So once again he will use the democratic platform for his own goals, but when the election is over he will go back to being independent. I don’t call that being respectful.. do you?

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Demsrule86

(68,351 posts)
206. Obama was talking about attacks on Biden by a 2016 Sanders supporter
Thu Apr 11, 2019, 12:33 PM
Apr 2019

And who also served on the board of out revolution.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Mr Tibbs

(539 posts)
126. Labels over substance for 100, Alex
Wed Apr 10, 2019, 04:36 PM
Apr 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

pnwmom

(108,925 posts)
147. Right. That's exactly what Bernie is doing when he insists on the socialist
Wed Apr 10, 2019, 07:16 PM
Apr 2019

or "democratic socialist" label, while NOT really espousing socialism or socialistic principles -- or so he says now.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Mr Tibbs

(539 posts)
125. Democratic socialism is heavily regulated capitalism
Wed Apr 10, 2019, 04:34 PM
Apr 2019

That is what Bernie has been selling for the last 4 years.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

comradebillyboy

(10,119 posts)
143. I suppose you can make up your own definition for words,
Wed Apr 10, 2019, 07:00 PM
Apr 2019

but socialism is not really any kind of capitalism.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

pnwmom

(108,925 posts)
146. Not according to the Democratic Socialists of America.
Wed Apr 10, 2019, 07:15 PM
Apr 2019

Bernie's just making things up as he goes along.

He's been interested in socialism since the 70's. Now he's calling it Democratic socialism, and pretending it's the same thing as practiced by the social democracies. It's not.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

comradebillyboy

(10,119 posts)
140. Thanks pnwmom. I get so tired of people telling me better social services
Wed Apr 10, 2019, 06:56 PM
Apr 2019

are socialism while ignoring the actual meaning of the word.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Gothmog

(143,999 posts)
236. Polls show Bernie Sanders' popularity among all voters is plummeting
Thu Apr 11, 2019, 04:35 PM
Apr 2019



One of the arguments Bernie Sanders' fans made during the 2016 Democratic primary was that he was more electable than Hillary Clinton. His favorable ratings with the general electorate were far higher than Hillary Clinton's. Indeed, Sanders maintained fairly high favorable ratings with all voters as late as 2018.

Sanders' popularity among all voters seems to be declining considerably in the last few months, however.

Our new CNN poll puts Sanders favorable rating at 46% compared to an unfavorable rating of 45% among registered voters. This is only the latest poll to have Sanders at basically even in his net favorability rating (favorable-unfavorable). A Quinnipiac University poll from late December gave the Vermont senator a net favorability of just +2 points. An average of all recent polls put Sanders' net favorability at about -1 points.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

AlexSFCA

(6,137 posts)
33. in a very crowded primary, bernie can win the nomination
Tue Apr 9, 2019, 10:30 PM
Apr 2019

with just 30% of actual votes until it becomes inevitable. Isn’t it similar to trump’s victory?

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

pnwmom

(108,925 posts)
36. How? What makes you think he would win in a brokered convention with only 30%
Tue Apr 9, 2019, 10:34 PM
Apr 2019

of actual votes? Why wouldn't the delegates and superdelegates get together to pick a compromise candidate over someone who had won only 30% of the votes?

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

InAbLuEsTaTe

(24,110 posts)
58. Not only CAN Bernie win the nomination, but he WILL win it... the writing's on the wall.
Tue Apr 9, 2019, 11:30 PM
Apr 2019

The size of his rallies, which just keep growing - while those of the other candidates keep shrinking - are the dead give away.


Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

lunamagica

(9,967 posts)
67. He had huge rallies in '16. Thousands and thousands of people who didn't vote
Wed Apr 10, 2019, 12:08 AM
Apr 2019

rallies are meaningless.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

InAbLuEsTaTe

(24,110 posts)
118. "Rallies are meaningless"... ohhh okayyyyy, whatever you say.
Wed Apr 10, 2019, 01:44 PM
Apr 2019

Tell that to Kamala supporters who brag nonstop about the size of her political rallies... which, btw, are dwarfed by the turnout for Bernie!!


Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

lunamagica

(9,967 posts)
121. I'll tell that to anyone. Crowds are miningless. Just ask President Romney
Wed Apr 10, 2019, 02:05 PM
Apr 2019

Tris was in Pennsylvania, a stare President Obama won

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

MineralMan

(146,192 posts)
95. A lot of writing on walls is just graffiti.
Wed Apr 10, 2019, 09:44 AM
Apr 2019

Read it before it gets removed.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Demsrule86

(68,351 posts)
209. He is not winning in New Hampshire.
Thu Apr 11, 2019, 12:36 PM
Apr 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Demsrule86

(68,351 posts)
208. I think Biden puts an end to this plan.
Thu Apr 11, 2019, 12:35 PM
Apr 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Gothmog

(143,999 posts)
264. Not in the real world
Sat Apr 13, 2019, 11:20 AM
Apr 2019

There are too many real democrats who have long memories who will not forget or forgive

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

AlexSFCA

(6,137 posts)
267. surely they will
Sat Apr 13, 2019, 12:19 PM
Apr 2019

cause we all know if bernie does win the nomination, 100% of dems will support him in the general. So the grudge is not that strong after all. Considering that most dems running this time adopted bernie’s political positions, it makes it even more plausible. By the way, we don’t yet know if Biden will be running. It is a very real possibility that he won’t. Would that make bernie’s win even more likely?
I think it is unhealthy to outright rule out a possibility or even a likelihood that bernie may secure the nomination. Better start weighing all options now to avoid divisions. All I can say is that all my Bernie supporting friends who annoyed me to no end in 2016, got reactivated again so I surely don’t want to relive 2016 drama with them again. Turns out they were correct about so many issues and the dangers of compramise. The reality is Bernie is much stronger now than he was in 2016. He is no longer facing a single viable contender, he is #1 in the polls right now among all dems who enetered the race.
Also, remember that Biden’s poll numbers are high right now buy they will likely go down if/when he starts campaigning. It has always happened to him, he could never get far in the process.

P.S. What’s with the nonsense, he is not a real democrat? Would you want him to run as independent? Would that help us in any way win in the general? Shouldn’t we be grateful he doesn’t?

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Gothmog

(143,999 posts)
268. I will support the nominee
Sat Apr 13, 2019, 01:53 PM
Apr 2019

sanders will not be the nominee with these unfavorability numbers. sanders is not electable

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

democratisphere

(17,235 posts)
41. Simple Answer.
Tue Apr 9, 2019, 10:50 PM
Apr 2019

BS is not.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

YOHABLO

(7,358 posts)
50. Everything right now is speculation. Let's cross that road when we come to it.
Tue Apr 9, 2019, 11:10 PM
Apr 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

BlueFlorida

(1,532 posts)
53. I was a Hillary voter
Tue Apr 9, 2019, 11:13 PM
Apr 2019

and I'll NEVER vote for Bernie because of what I know he did.

I'll vote for him if he is the nominee but that ain't gonna happen.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

InAbLuEsTaTe

(24,110 posts)
60. Maybe not you, but many will jump on the "Bernie bandwagon"
Tue Apr 9, 2019, 11:36 PM
Apr 2019

when it becomes clear he's running away with the nomination. It's only natural... most people want to be associated with a winner!!


Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

lunamagica

(9,967 posts)
68. But you were always a Sanders supporter. You can't talk for Hillary supporters
Wed Apr 10, 2019, 12:09 AM
Apr 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

WeekiWater

(3,259 posts)
128. Why not. That seems to be what they are best at. NT
Wed Apr 10, 2019, 04:41 PM
Apr 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Thekaspervote

(32,606 posts)
186. Runaway with the nomination? Naaa
Wed Apr 10, 2019, 10:00 PM
Apr 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Gothmog

(143,999 posts)
265. No or few Clinton voters will support sanders during the primaries
Sat Apr 13, 2019, 11:22 AM
Apr 2019

A large number of real democrats have good memories and these real Democrats will not forgive or forget

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

apcalc

(4,461 posts)
129. Agree. He will not be the nominee.
Wed Apr 10, 2019, 04:42 PM
Apr 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

dhol82

(9,351 posts)
54. Has he changed his party affiliation yet?
Tue Apr 9, 2019, 11:13 PM
Apr 2019

Can’t run as a Democrat unless you’re a Democrat.
Not that his supporters seem to care.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Jarqui

(10,110 posts)
66. It's too early to be certain of much. A lot can happen.
Wed Apr 10, 2019, 12:00 AM
Apr 2019

A big thing is Biden. If Joe doesn't run, Bernie has quite an advantage. He has a lot of money and a sizable base to build up a lead. With the others diluting the vote, he might jump out.

If Joe runs, then maybe he gets the most but Bernie and his base take a hunk leaving the rest fighting over dwindling delegates.

From my top sentence, a lot can change with the upcoming debates. One or a handful will rise like cream to contended. i'm hoping for this because I would like us to have the candidate for change. If the GOP pull a swticheroo, we're in better shape for that.

The candidate who is going to decide it will probably be like what Trump & Obama were -media darlings for ratings.

I'm fighting for everyone but those who emerge with excitement, credibility, good messages to voters in the townhalls and speeches that fire people up. Those at the ones that I'm looking for. We have a number who might pull it off. No one will rub away with it - the media interest would wane so they'll mixed it up to sustain the ratings.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

R B Garr

(16,920 posts)
70. Agree with every word! This needs to be said.
Wed Apr 10, 2019, 12:27 AM
Apr 2019

This and much more actually, especially with his 3rd party voting staffers.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

vsrazdem

(2,176 posts)
76. The same way they got millions of Hillary voters to vote for Obama.
Wed Apr 10, 2019, 01:08 AM
Apr 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

BlueFlorida

(1,532 posts)
136. Obama didn't make Hillary lose
Wed Apr 10, 2019, 05:12 PM
Apr 2019

1. Hillary's campaign leaders didn't advocate voting for third party like Sirota, Gray and Turner.

2. Hillary ACTIVELY campaigned for Obama and had several joint appearances.

3. She didn't continue campaigning after it was mathematically certain that she lost.

4. Hillary didn't claim unfairness in losing and rile up supporters to mistrust and hate Obama.

5. Hillary may have lost but Obama was a Democrat - not "running as a Democrat" for the benefits of the party apparatus.

6. Obama's policies were rooted in reality with detailed policy proposals - not slogans, platitudes and promises of free stuff.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

vsrazdem

(2,176 posts)
199. You might want to check your facts, and stop living in a fantasy world.
Thu Apr 11, 2019, 11:33 AM
Apr 2019

Moreover, defections from a primary to general election are common. More voters went from Hillary Clinton to John McCain in 2008 than went from Sanders to Trump in 2016; about 13 percent of Trump’s 2016 voters also voted for Barack Obama in 2012.

https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2017/8/24/16194086/bernie-trump-voters-study

https://www.thenation.com/article/the-2008-democratic-primary-was-far-nastier-than-2016s/
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

Cha

(295,912 posts)
81. Too bad so many BS voters didn't vote for Hillary in the GE..
Wed Apr 10, 2019, 01:14 AM
Apr 2019


Second, a lot of Bernie Sanders supporters weren’t big fans of Clinton. So Stein campaigning on the idea that Clinton and Trump were similar made it harder for Clinton to win over those voters — even if Sanders voters didn’t vote for Stein, they may have stayed home out of disgust.

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/jill-stein-democratic-spoiler-or-scapegoat/

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

vsrazdem

(2,176 posts)
200. Too bad so many Hillary voters didn't for for Obama in the GE
Thu Apr 11, 2019, 11:39 AM
Apr 2019

Moreover, defections from a primary to general election are common. More voters went from Hillary Clinton to John McCain in 2008 than went from Sanders to Trump in 2016; about 13 percent of Trump’s 2016 voters also voted for Barack Obama in 2012.

https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2017/8/24/16194086/bernie-trump-voters-study

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

Cha

(295,912 posts)
224. That has nothing to do with the
Thu Apr 11, 2019, 02:31 PM
Apr 2019

shithole in the WH now.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Cha

(295,912 posts)
238. Jill Stein is now officially the Ralph Nader of 2016.
Fri Apr 12, 2019, 01:46 AM
Apr 2019


Second, a lot of Bernie Sanders supporters weren’t big fans of Clinton. So Stein campaigning on the idea that Clinton and Trump were similar made it harder for Clinton to win over those voters — even if Sanders voters didn’t vote for Stein, they may have stayed home out of disgust.

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/jill-stein-democratic-spoiler-or-scapegoat/
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

betsuni

(25,128 posts)
83. With slogans.
Wed Apr 10, 2019, 01:20 AM
Apr 2019

If those darn Hillary voters would do this: "We have got to look at candidates, you know, not by the color of their skin, not by their sexual orientation or their gender and not by their age"; stop nitpicking about policy details, the policies that require enough votes to be passed into legislation (Republicans will totally be reasonable and vote with Democrats if Bernie wins the presidency). Remember, everyone is corrupt, you must be pessimistic and angry but always lash out in the wrong direction. Forget history before 2015. Listen to the slogans, repeat the slogans...

Just in case:

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

quakerboy

(13,901 posts)
84. Same way any other candidate would have to
Wed Apr 10, 2019, 02:33 AM
Apr 2019

I mean, not a single candidate out there, announced or unannounced can win without convincing a majority of delegates. And with somewhere between a 16 to 50 way split, thats gonna be a challenge. If I were in that field, I guess I'd rather start with the biggest group of support than the smallest.

And equally, if not more importantly than the primary vote.. Any one of these candidates needs to win something approaching 100% of all of those primary voters, plus a whole hell of a lot more folks over to vote for them in the general.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

pnwmom

(108,925 posts)
85. Here's the difference:
Wed Apr 10, 2019, 02:39 AM
Apr 2019

I think Bernie's already hit peak Bernie. There's little reason to think he'll get more than what he managed to get last time, against a single opponent. Hillary voters, who numbered 4 million more than Bernie voters, are going to be looking for someone else.

With the newer candidates, they don't have nearly as much name recognition -- yet. We don't know how they'll do when the debates and primaries start. A dark horse could overtake and surpass Bernie. It's happened many times in the past.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

quakerboy

(13,901 posts)
87. Then you have no worries
Wed Apr 10, 2019, 03:41 AM
Apr 2019

Sit back, enjoy the ride and wait till bernie loses the primary and we pick our candidate, dark horse or other. Maybe Biden will come out of nowhere and sweep us all off our feet!

Unless you are concerned that a bunch of those who voted for Hillary might in fact switch over and chose Bernie this time, or that there will be 4 more years of those pesky youth folks who basically carried Bernie as far as he got last time who are now able to, which in theory might be enough to win him a primary (roughly 4 million people turning 18 each year, 4 years=16m, 76% register to vote, 45% Dem, thats your 4m right there). And further, unless you dont like that possibility, in which case, lets have lots and lots of "no way can he win the primary" posts on DU!!

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

pnwmom

(108,925 posts)
88. My concern is that it will be like last time.
Wed Apr 10, 2019, 03:56 AM
Apr 2019

Bernie supporters will have false hopes till the bitter end. After someone else wins at the convention, a significant group of Bernie supporters will decide he was "robbed" because of "corruption" in the party, and that they're not going to vote for whoever the nominee is.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

quakerboy

(13,901 posts)
244. Since that didnt actually happen last time
Sat Apr 13, 2019, 02:39 AM
Apr 2019

I guess thats not much of a worry for me.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

pnwmom

(108,925 posts)
245. Actually, it did. There were protesters at the convention, who had arrived there
Sat Apr 13, 2019, 02:48 AM
Apr 2019

still hoping maybe they could change delegates' minds. And when they didn't succeed, a certain fraction didn't vote for the Democratic nominee. That mattered in an election that was only decided by 80,000 votes across three states.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

quakerboy

(13,901 posts)
246. Except it didnt
Sat Apr 13, 2019, 03:16 AM
Apr 2019

Protests yes. People who hoped for a last minute change of heart/mind/influence yeah. Democrats turning against the nominee en masse.. Not so much.

Trump lost about as many Republicans as Hillary did Democrats. The big shift in the states we lost was independents. Luckily for us Trump has been an ill will machine, so we've got a reasonable chance to regain many of those votes.

But yeah. Lets keep blaming fellow Democrats who came along grudgingly and who virtually all ended up voting for the Democratic nominee even if it wasn't the one they wanted. That should help us win the next one.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

pnwmom

(108,925 posts)
247. Hillary would have lost fewer Democrats if some of them hadn't walked away after the convention.
Sat Apr 13, 2019, 04:47 AM
Apr 2019

It sure didn't help that Bernie people like Nina Turner announced that they were supporting Jill Stein instead.

And guess what? For 2020 Bernie's re-hired Nina Turner. He must have been very pleased with her.

(And it is completely irrelevant how many R's failed to vote for Trump. Bernie's actions had no impact on them, but he did affect the turnout for Hillary.)

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

quakerboy

(13,901 posts)
269. I doubt even one was lost after the convention
Sat Apr 13, 2019, 05:30 PM
Apr 2019

Anyone who walked away after the convention was NEVER going to have voted for Hillary. Regardless of the existence of Bernie or any other politician.

We didnt lose based on Democrats. We lost based on Independants. We lost based on Russian interference. We lost based on Misogyny. We lost based on 30 years of virulant, hardcore anti-clinton propeganda that we knowingly and willfully walked into. We did not lose based on Democrats.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

pnwmom

(108,925 posts)
270. Then why did Bernie campaign for Hillary at all if he didn't think it would make a difference?
Sat Apr 13, 2019, 05:35 PM
Apr 2019

He didn't campaign for her at all in July or August, and he only had two events in September (because he was too busy writing the best selling book that just had to be published the day after the election) but he had multiple events in October. Why bother if his campaigning made no difference?

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Hortensis

(58,785 posts)
86. He can't. There's a huge difference between those who
Wed Apr 10, 2019, 03:14 AM
Apr 2019

Last edited Wed Apr 10, 2019, 04:01 AM - Edit history (3)

are drawn to the resentful negativism and hostility of populist messages and those who are drawn to candidates focusing on positive plans to fix problems and advance society. Bernie or Hillary, and notably, Hillary's principled and goal-focused liberalism won big, even with the large conservative spoiler vote for him in many states and with Russia and the Republicans investing heavily in his victory.

Yes, Sanders says he has plans also, but his are constantly used as delivery systems for attacks on other Democrats. Whatever's going on in his head, no amount of common purpose in his avowed plans causes him to see other Democrats as allies to join with to advance our nation.

This huge, defining difference will show more clearly as time goes on. I believe just coverage of the shocking behaviors of many of those drawn to him, which was light in 2016 compared to what it's going to be, will enlighten a lot of people. It's not just that he wouldn't control the "lock her up-level" antagonism toward Democrats in those who listened to him then, he couldn't have if he'd tried. And he won't be able to now.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Tom Rinaldo

(22,911 posts)
94. Same as it ever was. Picking up enough support from others as they drop out
Wed Apr 10, 2019, 09:14 AM
Apr 2019

No matter who is currently considered a favorite it is an uphill battle for any of our candidates to emerge with a majority of delegates.

The odds literally do not favor any one of them winning. It is just a matter of who faces more or less steep odds to do so. No candidate's supporters form a monolithic bloc. There were some Hillary supporters, for example, who backed her over Bernie in 2016 because they feared Bernie could not beat Trump, even though they were more drawn to Bernie on most issues.

The person who wins the nomination will start with their own base, and then pick up some support from those who had them as their second choice, then some from those who had them as their third choice and so on as candidates are eliminated. When it gets down to two or at most three viable options opinions will be strongly influenced by who appears to have the momentum at that stage. In other words who has the look and feel of a potential winner. Right now that could be practically any of our potential candidates. Come late Spring 2020, when the field is tightly narrowed, the main and practically only consideration could well end up being "who looks like they can defeat Trump?"

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

RobertDevereaux

(1,841 posts)
99. Thanks for your posting, Tom!
Wed Apr 10, 2019, 10:18 AM
Apr 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

George II

(67,782 posts)
96. With all the qualified candidates out there he's going to have a difficult time...
Wed Apr 10, 2019, 09:50 AM
Apr 2019

...winning any caucus or primary.

Wait until Joe Biden enters the race, he's already double digits ahead of Sanders. And now, with the revelation that Sanders became a millionaire via is first run, he probably lose many of the idealist supporters he had.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Baltimike

(4,126 posts)
98. He REALLY should not have left the Democratic Party after 2016...but he did
Wed Apr 10, 2019, 10:17 AM
Apr 2019

and his ties to creepy Devine puts me on the fence about him AT ALL.

If he doesn't register as a Democrat, he doesn't get my vote. plain and simple

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Mr Tibbs

(539 posts)
110. He joined the party again
Wed Apr 10, 2019, 01:09 PM
Apr 2019

There is no need to register to be a Democrat

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

Demsrule86

(68,351 posts)
210. But he ran as a Democrat for the Senate and then changed back after he won...
Thu Apr 11, 2019, 12:40 PM
Apr 2019

He is already set to run as 2024 as an independent.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Baltimike

(4,126 posts)
248. It really does feel like he was 'kicking us when we were down" when he left in 2016. nt
Sat Apr 13, 2019, 08:58 AM
Apr 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Demsrule86

(68,351 posts)
266. Yes. I will never get over the 16 election and hope we can stop fascist Trump.
Sat Apr 13, 2019, 11:37 AM
Apr 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Cha

(295,912 posts)
242. It's now convenient for him
Sat Apr 13, 2019, 12:09 AM
Apr 2019

to register "Dem".. he'll go back to being an I when he loses.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Mr Tibbs

(539 posts)
100. It's about the policy
Wed Apr 10, 2019, 11:01 AM
Apr 2019

It's always been about policy

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

KPN

(15,587 posts)
101. I don't know that he does think that, and he certainly won't.
Wed Apr 10, 2019, 11:06 AM
Apr 2019

Personally, I think Bernie's window is closing, but I like seeing him at the table because of the focus he brings to progressive economics. Let's wait and see how the first several primaries go before getting concerned about a brokered convention, shall we?

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

MH1

(17,537 posts)
104. Do you think winning the nomination is his goal?
Wed Apr 10, 2019, 12:13 PM
Apr 2019

I no longer think that.

Or, he's in Trump territory for egotism. (for the reason you posted. Winning is almost certainly out of reach for him.)

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Mr Tibbs

(539 posts)
111. Yet he is Miles Ahead of every other declared candidate
Wed Apr 10, 2019, 01:11 PM
Apr 2019

I think the real issue will be, if and when he wins the nomination how will his detractors react.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

LongtimeAZDem

(4,494 posts)
113. If he gets the nomination, I'll work to see that he wins. But, I'll do everything I can to prevent
Wed Apr 10, 2019, 01:17 PM
Apr 2019

him from getting the nomination.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

MH1

(17,537 posts)
115. I'll vote for the nominee in the general election. It won't be Sanders. nt
Wed Apr 10, 2019, 01:29 PM
Apr 2019


If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

apcalc

(4,461 posts)
127. Miles ahead?
Wed Apr 10, 2019, 04:41 PM
Apr 2019

By what measurement?

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

JI7

(89,174 posts)
135. he isn't miles ahead, And an undeclared is ahead of him
Wed Apr 10, 2019, 05:12 PM
Apr 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

namahage

(1,157 posts)
204. Hopefully better than his supporters did in 2016.
Thu Apr 11, 2019, 12:13 PM
Apr 2019

And probably better than his 2020 support and the “sore winner” attitude many of them project.

Seriously. If you’re that far ahead why not try to boost up your potential VP and Cabinet choices than try to laser focus on and smear every challenger that comes close?

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

Mr Tibbs

(539 posts)
133. He's the frontrunner
Wed Apr 10, 2019, 05:05 PM
Apr 2019

😁

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

revmclaren

(2,488 posts)
137. Sorry, no he's not.
Wed Apr 10, 2019, 05:28 PM
Apr 2019

A nondeclared is.

When Biden enters the race, all bets are off.



Edit: because of Biden' strength even with all the attacks, I am seriously tending to change my candidate choice to him.

ONLY!!! 2019 and beyond.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

roody

(10,849 posts)
106. Attend one of his events, and
Wed Apr 10, 2019, 12:38 PM
Apr 2019

you will find out.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

LongtimeAZDem

(4,494 posts)
109. This was the argument last time, but his events never translated into votes.
Wed Apr 10, 2019, 01:06 PM
Apr 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

pnwmom

(108,925 posts)
152. His events were covered on TV. Most of us don't need to see any more of them.
Wed Apr 10, 2019, 07:23 PM
Apr 2019

The people who love him will vote for him again without needing to attend a single rally (even if they do.)

The people who were turned off by his negativity will be looking elsewhere -- to Booker, Harris, Warren, Inslee, Castro, etc.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

hughee99

(16,113 posts)
107. In this primary, how many are planning to vote for Hillary? Nt
Wed Apr 10, 2019, 01:00 PM
Apr 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

pnwmom

(108,925 posts)
177. The real question is how many of Hillary primary voters will switch to Bernie, allowing him
Wed Apr 10, 2019, 09:36 PM
Apr 2019

to win next time?

The answer is: almost zero. There are plenty of other excellent alternatives who didn't do things like re-hire Nina Turner, who advocated for Jill Stein in October 2016.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

hughee99

(16,113 posts)
189. I didn't think he would win last time, and I don't think he'll win this time.
Wed Apr 10, 2019, 10:48 PM
Apr 2019

And while he may not be able to get many former Clinton voters to support him, I am pretty sure our nominee will need his supporters to win in the GE. Just like I said in 2016, Bernie isn’t going to win the primary, the only goal of the other candidates should be not to go out of their way to specifically piss off his supporters, because you’ll eventually need their support. A large enough number of his supporters are not going to support someone whose supporters argue that they or Bernie are racists, sexists, liars, etc...

Much in the same way you suggest Clinton supporters would never support him.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

pnwmom

(108,925 posts)
190. The problem is that last time he led his followers to think he was going to win
Wed Apr 10, 2019, 10:55 PM
Apr 2019

all the way up to the convention -- despite not having enough PLEDGED delegates. His plan then was for superdelegates to switch from Hillary to him -- which of course would never have happened. And the result was many of his supporters came to the convention and started protesting, because they thought they'd somehow been robbed.

If Bernie continues, the best he'll do is a plurality, not a majority, and the delegates will coalesce around someone "neutral" -- like Biden. (Not one of my favorites, either.) And many Bernie people will be unhappy and resentful. Again.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

hughee99

(16,113 posts)
191. His supporters thought they were getting robbed long before the convention, and
Wed Apr 10, 2019, 11:07 PM
Apr 2019

Last edited Thu Apr 11, 2019, 01:31 AM - Edit history (2)

suggesting they were racists and sexists (as some Clinton supporters did) certainly didn't help when it came time to get them to turn out for the GE. Bernie will have enough money to stay until the end if he wants to, but he'll never be able to get a majority, as you said.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

Ace Rothstein

(3,109 posts)
130. He doesn't really need to win over Hillary voters in the primary.
Wed Apr 10, 2019, 04:49 PM
Apr 2019

If he can maintain his 2016 voters and Hillary's 2016 voters are split among a few candidates, he'll end up on top. It probably won't be enough to clinch pre-convention but if the party nominates someone else over him, say hello to four more years of Trump.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

pnwmom

(108,925 posts)
158. Wrong. He can't win with just the plurality he got last time. It wasn't enough then
Wed Apr 10, 2019, 08:02 PM
Apr 2019

and it won't be enough in 2020, because the winner has to have a MAJORITY of delegates at the convention.

So what happens when he goes to the convention with his minority of delegates? He won't win on the first ballot. Maybe no one will have a majority. And then the superdelegates get to vote, and all the pledged Democrats (the ones for Harris, Warren, etc.) can change their votes and support someone else. Do you think they're going to pick Bernie over an actual Democrat?

Yeah, right.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Ace Rothstein

(3,109 posts)
159. If Bernie has the highest delegate count then he should get the nomination.
Wed Apr 10, 2019, 08:13 PM
Apr 2019

Giving it to someone else would be a guarantee of 4 more years of Trump.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

pnwmom

(108,925 posts)
160. That's not how it works. It won't go to someone who only has 30 or 40% of the delegates
Wed Apr 10, 2019, 09:00 PM
Apr 2019

from the primaries.

It will go to whoever can get 51% of the delegates at the convention.

And Bernie is doing no outreach to actual Democrats to help him get over the top.

What is most likely to happen is that the person Bernie would least like to win -- the most conservative candidate, Biden -- will be chosen at the convention.

He's not my favorite, but he is a LOT more likely than Bernie.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

melman

(7,681 posts)
167. "actual Democrats"
Wed Apr 10, 2019, 09:19 PM
Apr 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

pnwmom

(108,925 posts)
171. Actual Democrats don't file as Independents for the Senate in 2024 at the same time
Wed Apr 10, 2019, 09:28 PM
Apr 2019

that they file to run as Democrats for President in 2020.

He must think he's very clever.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

melman

(7,681 posts)
185. But you weren't referring to him
Wed Apr 10, 2019, 10:00 PM
Apr 2019

when you said "doing no outreach to actual Democrats"

If we look at the whole thread, we see the OP says "Since 2016, he's made almost no outreach efforts to Hillary supporters" and "given his lack of attention to the concerns of Hillary voters."

It seems safe to assume this what you mean by "actual Democrats"

So people that supported Hillary in the primary are actual Democrats, and people who didn't are not. Is this what you really mean? Sure reads that way.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

Ace Rothstein

(3,109 posts)
192. That would ensure a Trump victory and tear the party apart.
Wed Apr 10, 2019, 11:42 PM
Apr 2019

You'd have millions of people staying at home come November.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

pnwmom

(108,925 posts)
193. It's looking like a likely possibility. That's why I was grateful that Hillary wasn't running again
Thu Apr 11, 2019, 12:07 AM
Apr 2019

and I wish Bernie wasn't either. He's at peak popularity right now and he's never going to get the majority of Dems to support him. They supported Hillary strongly last time and they're done with him.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

FBaggins

(26,696 posts)
202. You keep confusing delegates with voters
Thu Apr 11, 2019, 11:54 AM
Apr 2019

A candidate can easily end up with a majority of delegates without ever getting a majority of voters is the field is large

That’s essentially how Trump got the GOP nomination.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

LongtimeAZDem

(4,494 posts)
214. This is why Superdelegates are necessary
Thu Apr 11, 2019, 01:04 PM
Apr 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

FBaggins

(26,696 posts)
215. They certainly helped Clinton lock things up early last time around
Thu Apr 11, 2019, 01:14 PM
Apr 2019

But they not longer play the same role. Roughly 2/3 of them will be committed with the state's primary/caucus results.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

LongtimeAZDem

(4,494 posts)
219. Not going to get lured into "re-fighting the primary"
Thu Apr 11, 2019, 01:17 PM
Apr 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

FBaggins

(26,696 posts)
222. I have no intention of re-fighting anything
Thu Apr 11, 2019, 01:39 PM
Apr 2019

It's simply a change in the nomination process that is relevant to the conversation. Superdelegates don't play anywhere near as large a role as they did in 2016.

Additionally, without a single established-name-in-the-party candidate, those remaining independent super-delegates are far less likely to align behind one candidate. Without a presumed winner, most of them will hold back until there is a clear frontrunner (well into the primaries).

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

pnwmom

(108,925 posts)
229. There is no reason to think that Bernie will. nt
Thu Apr 11, 2019, 03:17 PM
Apr 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

FBaggins

(26,696 posts)
232. I don't think he will either
Thu Apr 11, 2019, 03:50 PM
Apr 2019

But it certainly isn’t for the nonsensical reasons laid out above. It’s because his own success in activating the more progressive elements in the country (and Clinton’s failures) have resulted in a flood of solid progressives into the race. He doesn’t stick out among them in the way that he did in 2016. If you’re more progressive than Clinton’s (and now Biden’s) historical positions, you no longer have just one alternative. You have several.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

leftieNanner

(14,997 posts)
153. I can't stand Bernie!
Wed Apr 10, 2019, 07:26 PM
Apr 2019

Sorry Bernie supporters, but I can't.

I seriously doubt if he will be able to win the primary, so I will hang my hat on that.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Eliot Rosewater

(31,097 posts)
226. This is likely his last chance at the WH, i am sure he will run 3rd party if he doesnt get D
Thu Apr 11, 2019, 03:12 PM
Apr 2019

nomination

willing to bet on it even

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

leftieNanner

(14,997 posts)
227. Well that would suck!
Thu Apr 11, 2019, 03:15 PM
Apr 2019

And I hope you are wrong!

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Eliot Rosewater

(31,097 posts)
228. Oh yeah, I am not wrong. Sadly.
Thu Apr 11, 2019, 03:16 PM
Apr 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

TheFarseer

(9,308 posts)
156. A few points
Wed Apr 10, 2019, 07:49 PM
Apr 2019

Last time he started with almost zero name recognition.

There was only one establishment candidate. This time they will split the vote.

Ideas like Medicare for All, $15/hr minimum wage free college and getting money out of politics is more mainstream.

Some voters in some states had to get registered to vote way ahead of time and couldn’t make the deadline. This time they’ll be ready. Not saying he’ll win for sure but the idea Bernie has no chance is wishful thinking by some of you.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

pnwmom

(108,925 posts)
161. Now he's got a ton of name recognition, and voters have already made up their minds about him,
Wed Apr 10, 2019, 09:04 PM
Apr 2019

and he still isn't at the point where he could get a majority. Meanwhile, there are some younger candidates who could significantly cut into his numbers, including Mayor Pete, Julian, and Beto. (Not everyone who backed Bernie last time loved all his positions. Some of them just hated Hillary, but she's not in the race this time.)

And he lost to Hilary by 4 million votes. He's not going to get millions of Hillary voters turning into Bernie converts. They're done with him.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

TheFarseer

(9,308 posts)
179. If you said
Wed Apr 10, 2019, 09:37 PM
Apr 2019

Warren is going to cut into his numbers, I might agree, but Beto or Castro? I don’t see it. He consistently polls in the top few candidates. I think you don’t like him and you are projecting. As for me, I haven’t decided who is my favorite but I do like Bernie.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

pnwmom

(108,925 posts)
180. Some of Bernie voters just didn't like Hillary. There's no telling who they might vote for,
Wed Apr 10, 2019, 09:39 PM
Apr 2019

given a non-binary choice.

I notice you left off Mayor Pete and Gov. Jay Inslee. They're both strong progressives.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

TheFarseer

(9,308 posts)
196. Some just didn't like Hillary
Thu Apr 11, 2019, 09:12 AM
Apr 2019

That’s very true. I like Inslee too but I wonder if he will get much traction. Never say never, but I don’t think mayor Pete will end up being a factor.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

cynatnite

(31,011 posts)
174. If he's the nominee, I will support him...
Wed Apr 10, 2019, 09:34 PM
Apr 2019

That's where I stand.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

pnwmom

(108,925 posts)
175. The OP was about the primaries, not the general. n/t
Wed Apr 10, 2019, 09:34 PM
Apr 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

cynatnite

(31,011 posts)
178. I was trying to be polite. :) n/t
Wed Apr 10, 2019, 09:37 PM
Apr 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Politicub

(12,163 posts)
203. Does anyone have data that shows how many people Bernie is attracting?
Thu Apr 11, 2019, 11:56 AM
Apr 2019

Some of those folks will be Hillary voters.

But he may not pick them up in the primaries, though.

I think we'll all get in line behind the Dem nominee in the general, though.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Apple Fritter

(131 posts)
216. I agree. The short answer is...no they won't vote for him.
Thu Apr 11, 2019, 01:14 PM
Apr 2019

But Bernie has got lots of support and large group. I think there are plenty of alternatives for centrists, moderates, or Dems who don't fit into the Bernie branch. So...like yeah. I have no idea how the primary election will play out but no worries we have plenty of opportunists to see the candidates do different things and speak together. It's going to be a beautiful political marathon.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

Gothmog

(143,999 posts)
237. Polls show Bernie Sanders' popularity among all voters is plummeting
Thu Apr 11, 2019, 04:36 PM
Apr 2019



One of the arguments Bernie Sanders' fans made during the 2016 Democratic primary was that he was more electable than Hillary Clinton. His favorable ratings with the general electorate were far higher than Hillary Clinton's. Indeed, Sanders maintained fairly high favorable ratings with all voters as late as 2018.

Sanders' popularity among all voters seems to be declining considerably in the last few months, however.

Our new CNN poll puts Sanders favorable rating at 46% compared to an unfavorable rating of 45% among registered voters. This is only the latest poll to have Sanders at basically even in his net favorability rating (favorable-unfavorable). A Quinnipiac University poll from late December gave the Vermont senator a net favorability of just +2 points. An average of all recent polls put Sanders' net favorability at about -1 points.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Gothmog

(143,999 posts)
217. There are a large number of real democrats who will not support sanders for that reason
Thu Apr 11, 2019, 01:15 PM
Apr 2019

There are a large number of real democrats who have long memories and will not forgive or forget. sanders will not be able to get the support of these voters.

BTW, I was at the National Convention where these protests took place. The booing of Congressman John Lewis was a planned stunt that the Clinton campaign found about and warned her delegates 20 to 30 minutes in advance. According to my whip, sanders was asked to stop this stunt and declined

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Paladin

(28,202 posts)
235. If we end up with a trump-Sanders election, Bernie will get my vote.
Thu Apr 11, 2019, 04:31 PM
Apr 2019

Short of that, to hell with him. Same for the loutish segment of his supporters, who made DU such a miserable place during the 2016 campaign.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Gothmog

(143,999 posts)
240. The Russian effort to target Bernie Sanders supporters in 2016 was more than previously known
Fri Apr 12, 2019, 03:58 PM
Apr 2019

sanders did nothing or very little to stop the efforts of Russians to use him against Clinton


If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

SFnomad

(3,473 posts)
243. The Russian push for BS won't be anywhere near as successful this time.
Sat Apr 13, 2019, 01:08 AM
Apr 2019

Rather than have a single opponent that has been vilified by RepubliCONs for decades, we have numerous candidate that people are more than willing to vote for. This means that BS won't get anywhere near the traction he got last time around as the "opposition" opponent.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

samnsara

(17,570 posts)
249. i kind of felt yelled at by him during the last election....
Sat Apr 13, 2019, 09:02 AM
Apr 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

ebbie15644

(1,208 posts)
258. He won't win PA in the general against Trump and
Sat Apr 13, 2019, 10:12 AM
Apr 2019

I don't believe he'll win Florida or Ohio. What is his path to victory?

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

pamdb

(1,331 posts)
260. Bernie
Sat Apr 13, 2019, 10:24 AM
Apr 2019


I don't want Bernie, he's too damn old. In spite of having voted for him in the michigan primary (something my husband regrets)
I don't want him again. I want someone younger, like mayor Pete, or Kamala Harris or Amy Kloboucher, Would have loved Sherrod Brown. I'm not crazy about Joe Biden, wish he would have run last time, he would have beat pumpkin head.

Having said that, I, of course will vote for whomever is nominated and who has the best chance of beating that big orange thing currently squatting in the WH. I like Joe Biden, even though he's old he somehow SEEMS younger. I see Elizabeth Warren as
a cabinet member. I think she's great but she has this, maybe because she was a professor, of lecturing and sort of instructing
people, which rubs them the wrong way. And my husband is a college professor.

If Biden does get the nomination (hell, at this point he hasn't even declared) her must know he has to pick a woman. Amy or Kamala, take your pick.

But no more Bernie. I still remember how he wouldn't concede (like Hillary did in 2008) and kept pushing, even talking about a brokered convention, and when he finally endorsed her at the convention, the shot of him sitting in a row seat glowering at everyone really turned me off. I feel he could have done a lot more to help Hillary get elected. His time is over. If it wasn't for the fact that maybe he could beat pumpkin head, I would say Biden's time is over as well.

I'm 68, I'll be dead in probably less than 20 years (86 sounds like a nice number) it's not my world anymore. It belongs to the 20 and 30 and 40 year olds. I would love Amy and Pete or Kamala and Pete.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

KayF

(1,345 posts)
271. a lot of people voted for her due to perceived electablity
Sat Apr 13, 2019, 05:52 PM
Apr 2019

voting for Bernie seemed like too big of a risk.

I think more than winning over Hillary supporters, the problem will be getting people to think he's the most electable.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Gothmog

(143,999 posts)
272. From the Hoarse Whisperer
Sun Apr 14, 2019, 12:16 PM
Apr 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Gothmog

(143,999 posts)
275. Washingont Post-Can Bernie Sanders really win over Trump voters?
Sun Apr 14, 2019, 03:52 PM
Apr 2019

sanders is claiming that he can win over trump voters. There are good reasons to doubt this claim https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/can-bernie-sanders-really-win-over-trump-voters/2019/04/14/43744f10-5c65-11e9-9625-01d48d50ef75_story.html?utm_term=.ff3386b1b77e




In Wisconsin and Michigan, Democrats nominated more traditional candidates for governor and captured both seats from Republicans. Some Democrats say a similar model is the path to victory in 2020.

Framing Sanders as the face of the Democratic Party, as the Fox appearance could do, will help Trump rather than hurt him, they contend.....

Sanders campaigned for Democrats in the Midwest several times in the run-up to the 2018 midterms, but most of his endorsed candidates lost. Kansas’s Brent Welder and Iowa’s Pete D’Alessandro, for example, were defeated in their House primaries by more moderate Democrats who went on to win in November.

Sen. Doug Jones (D-Ala.), who faces reelection in a ruby red state, said his constituents want a consensus builder at the top of the ticket, “someone who can govern, who can reach across, not only across the aisle, but within the various groups, within the Democratic Party.” He declined to discuss whether Sanders qualifies.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

NastyRiffraff

(12,448 posts)
292. He won't
Mon Apr 15, 2019, 02:24 PM
Apr 2019

There are too many good Democratic candidates to choose from. Who needs Bernie?

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Gothmog

(143,999 posts)
293. I doubt that sanders will convert many Clinton voters due to stunts like this
Tue Apr 16, 2019, 06:49 PM
Apr 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
Latest Discussions»Retired Forums»Democratic Primaries»How does Bernie think he'...