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[progree]

This message was self-deleted by its author (progree) on Thu Mar 5, 2020, 09:10 PM. When the original post in a discussion thread is self-deleted, the entire discussion thread is automatically locked so new replies cannot be posted.

[Cha]

1. Thank you, progree

[progree]

54. Thanks for the instantaneous response: First response and first rec. 💜 💜

Glad it made you happy. So nice to see the first moment after I posted

(Sorry about the blue heart icons on the title line. Only ones I had in storage. Will hunt down some red ones. I got a lot of fan mail to deal with Suddenly the star of the minute, but after tonight I'm just Bozo In Flyover Country ).

[3catwoman3]

59. Blue hearts are fine!

We are Democrats, after all -

[progree]

63. I forgot! I didn't even think of that. These were old emoticons I collected from DU

before they started displaying them in color. Makes me think about red hearts and blue hearts differently now. Wow!

[Cha]

65. You're Welcome!

[Walleye]

2. thanks you!

[still_one]

3. Thanks. I know it could not have been easy for you

[William769]

4. Good reasoning.

Thanks for that.

[PubliusEnigma]

5. Hard wisdom to come by, but we need more of this

[Peacetrain]

6. Thank you!!!!

thank you

[oldtime dfl_er]

7. Thank you

I just love people who are reasonable.

[Just_Vote_Dem]

8. Thank you!

Sometimes your head has to overrule your heart.

[ibegurpard]

9. The reason I'm not enthusiastically supporting Bernie this time

is because there are too many Democrats that hate his guts and that blame him for the 2016 election. I think that's garbage but it is what it is and therefore he's just too divisive. He should have kept the Democratic designation after 2016 too. Left way too much room for attack if he was planning on running again. And he should have spent the past four years mending fences and building alliances with party people.
Politics is not just about the best ideas... it's about relationships.

[Bradshaw3]

12. Well said n/t

[IronLionZion]

47. We need less hate in our party

and in our country

[blm]

10. Respect for your truth.

[Sloumeau]

11. Thank you, progree.

Most of us that support Joe Biden also support greatly improving government healthcare, making college a lot more affordable, and a whole host of other things that Bernie Sanders supports. There is absolutely nothing wrong with wanting those things at all.

Where most of us Biden supporters separate from many Bernie supporters are in two ways:

1. The ability of Bernie Sanders to get elected
2. The ability of Bernie Sanders to pass his agenda.

The problem with the first one you already understand. Trying to get a Socialist elected to any office in America is dang hard, is only able to be done on occasion, and only seems to be able to be done in the bluest of states and in the bluest of Congressional districts. The problem here, of course, is if you cannot get elected does it really matter how great your proposals are? No, it does not.

The problem with the second point is that no Republican wants to pass any of Bernie Sander's proposals, and unless he can keep the House and somehow get 60 votes in the Senate, none of his agenda is getting passed. Not only would it be hard to get 60 votes in the Senate while holding on to the House majority, but many in the House that are in purple districts think that Bernie Sanders at the top of the ticket would actually make it harder for them to retain their seats--that Democrats could actually lose the House majority with Bernie at the top of the ticket.

So, our support of Joe Biden rather than Bernie Sanders is based on real and practical issues. It is not because we do not like a lot of his proposals. We are Democrats. Of course, we like a lot of his proposals.

Thank you again for voting for Joe Biden.



This is good news for Joe Biden!



Welcome to Team Joe Biden!

[Sloumeau]

53. Joe Biden worked tirelessly to get the ACA passed.

How is it that you seem not to know this?

[MFGsunny]

13. + 1000 for your pragmatic conclusion and TYVM for voting it. n/t

[progree]

14. Thanks much for the thanks

I'm on new phone, so is a struggle with the "keyboard" so won't attempt to deal with the longer very thoughtful and spot-on replies that deserve more than just a two word acknowledgement.. Not until I get back to my regular computer tomorrow.

But just wanted to thank u all for ur thanx

Sorry I can't put the heart icons on the title line like I tried. Will fix that when I get back on my regular computer where I know how to do EVERYTHING

[redstatebluegirl]

102. Thank you progree, you did something the GOP cannot do, you voted what is best for the country

at this moment.

[helpisontheway]

15. Thank you. Nt

[nolabear]

16. Thank you. You do your candidate proud.

Good folks who can make an effort for the common good are so vital, and seem to me to be the real core of what Bernie says he supports. No matter what, I am grateful.

[LakeArenal]

17. Thank you.

A vote to unite us.

[marcopolo63]

18. All I seem to be saying today is...

OK boomer!

[McKim]

109. I Am Praying........

I am praying that Warren will be VP and push the excellent ideas from the Sanders campaign. This would be a dram team for Warren/Sanders supporters. And I don’t want to see anymore bashing towards the Left of Our Democratic Party. Just take a tour of your local tent city to see we need some big changes.

[marcopolo63]

110. I totally agree!

I doubt Biden will select Warren as his VP candidate, but think she would really balance the ticket out politically, gender-wise and as an acknowledgment of the divisions in the Party. The moderate/centrist hand-wringers won't allow it is my guess.

[BigmanPigman]

19. Rob Reiner told Chris Hayes last night that this

is THE election that will determine the fate of our country/democracy and the fate of the world! And he was NOT exaggerating, he is right.

[scrabblequeen40]

20. Thank you for the transparency

I hope there will be others who follow your path.

[Owl]

21. Thanks!

[Stuart G]

22. Thank You

[progree]

56. A special kudos to you, Stuart. Thank you right back! +++ 😂😂😂 n/t

[NCProgressive]

23. Congratulations!!

[Fla Dem]

24. Yes, sometime you have to go with your head, not your heart.

[aikoaiko]

25. I think both Bernie and Elizabeth can beat Trump.

I’m sorry to hear you have up.

Such is life. We move on.

[progree]

35. I do regret not giving enuff consideration to Warren

Last edited Tue Mar 3, 2020, 10:06 PM - Edit history (1)

but dont think she was going to come close to winning the democratic primary. So would have been throwing away my Biden vote.

As for Bernie I've said my piece. I know that there are some polls that say anyone with a pulse can beat Trump. But I think it will be a different story when it's head to head and its all about whether we want to be Stalinist Russia or North Korea or Cuba and we have to go blah blah about Sweden. Maybe in 2032, but its not going to work out in 2020.

Luv ya tho. Sincerely.

[Pepsidog]

26. My thoughts exactly. Spent years listening to Bernie on Hartman and wish we had an electorate smart

enough to understand the benefits of a Bernie or Warren presidency but we are not there yet. Sure wish we can get some of that Bernie enthusiasm behind Biden. And Joe stop the gaffs because the MSM is determined to will play and replay each one a million times.

[wicket]

27. Likewise, and I've known Bernie for nearly 30 years

n/t

[redstateblues]

28. Kudos to you progree! Let's beat Trump

[mcar]

29. ...

[ToxMarz]

30. Bernie chose long time ago to brand himself with the nuanced

Socialist affiliation. He could be exactly who he is and always has been and not ever used the word socialist. There is so much "socialist" policy in our (and every) government. Republicans already consider Democrats borderline Comunists. Just calling him a socialist wouldn't hurt him. But his choice to associate himself proudly and defiantly with that word is basically doing all the heavy lifting for his opponents. It has not hurt him up to now, possibly been an asset with the constituents he has served, but to become President. It is a tough sell in this country. Not saying he can't do it, but I too am seriously doubtful.

[quakerboy]

57. Not borderline

They stick us all with both socialist and communist labels at will.

Literally the only one in the race that they'd have trouble sticking the socialist label to is Bloomberg. They will stick it to Biden when they feel the time is right, and a ridiculously large number of people will buy it.

[warmfeet]

31. We need a Democrat in the White House.

If it is Joe Biden, so be it.

[RiverStone]

32. Reluctantly, I agree. Tho my children don't

I get the pragmatism of voting for Biden. I worked tirelessly for Bernie in the last election.

My twenty-something kiddos are passionate for Bernie no matter what. I hope I can speak to them (so they hear me) of the existential threat as well

[MFM008]

33. Yes

[LiberalFighter]

34. I have concerns too.

I put in a call today to a rep about how if any one of Sanders' plans would impact me and others. He was going to check up north to find out.

[Ferrets are Cool]

36. Thank you. I could have almost written that same post.

[NurseJackie]

37. Hey...

[kstewart33]

38. Thank you.

Biden has his issues, but he's the best chance we've got to defeat Trump, keep the House majority and perhaps increase our Senate membership.

I believe Joe will build a great team both in the White House and the secretaries of the difference departments. It's going to take a gargantuan effort to restore what was destroyed by Trump.

[samnsara]

42. yes hes had issues but hes a saint and a Rhodes Scholar next to trump*..

[grantcart]

39. Thank you, thank you, thank you

Your realistic logic is needed in purple and red states to expand the map

[ProudProgressiveNow]

40. KR NT

[samnsara]

41. yeas ago I campaigned hard for one candidate and in the booth I voted for the other...

...i don't know if my heart or my gut won...

[progree]

67. Thanks, sounds like me, tho I didn't campaign for him that hard, but glad to hear that

it's not unreasonable to change when its time to actually mark the ballot.

[Demsrule86]

43. Thank you...

[radical noodle]

44. It's ultimately all about beating trump

Thank you for your thoughtful (and difficult, I'm sure) vote.

[progree]

68. " It's ultimately all about beating trump"

Totally. Thanks++

[Turin_C3PO]

45. Thank you!

[GulfCoast66]

46. You Sir, or Madam, are a great Democrat.

Support with your heart, vote with your brain.

Not saying the Bernie supporters who disagree with you have no brain. Hardly. But you made the decision you thought best supported our Nation.

Vote Blue!

[DiverDave]

48. So, same old, same old

Eh? Glad your conscience is clean, mine wouldnt be.

[progree]

58. Yes, my conscience is 100%, 1000% clean n/t

[mzmolly]

49. Well stated.

Welcome.

[amuse bouche]

51. Facing facts is good for the country. I am a big Pete and Warren fan

but decided to be practical. I want the jackass gone

[socialist cyclist]

52. I respect your decision

I'm a Vermont boy and voted for Bernie today. But I understand your decision. I don't agree with it, but I respect it. I think Bernie CAN beat Trump. But at the end of the day, I think Biden can beat him as well. And as long as we beat that jerk, I'll be satisfied.

[progree]

60. Thanks for your nice and thoughtful reply. Much appreciated. I very much respect ur vote too. nt

[Joinfortmill]

55. I appreciate this was difficult

You did the right thing. The world thanks you.

[TheFarseer]

61. I never vote against the guy I really want

For the same reason I never bet against my favorite football team - if I bet on the other guys and they lose, I’m going to feel really dumb.

[TheFarseer]

79. I won't bother to try and make an argument

Because people here have obviously watched too much cable news BUT you all that think it’s so obvious Bernie will lose and Biden will win are in for a rude surprise because Trump will be very hard to beat with basically the same campaign we ran last time. We ran Hillary in 2016 and Kerry in 2004 over more progressive candidates and lost. We took a chance in 2008 and won. I even like Joe as a person. I just think he’s off on some of the issues. And I’m hoping I’m wrong about November because being right won’t get me a damn thing.

[TheFarseer]

85. For a long time Bernie supporter

You sure are trashing the guy. Anyway, congrats on a pretty solid night at the polls.

[TheFarseer]

80. You were so pissed at me you replied twice!?

I don’t know whether to be honored or what. It’s a primary. You can vote your concise in the primary. Btw, I have no interest in a Jill Stein presidency even if it were remotely possible if that’s what you were implying.

[Hortensis]

72. Ok. I otoh do my sincere best to vote strategically so the power

of my vote furthers what I want to accomplish: to elect good people, to give America's only good party the majorities needed to do good things, and to stop bad candidates and Republicans from getting power. Every time without fail.

If a candidate isn't going to get 15%, all votes for that candidate are wasted and someone else wins, and that's only one way voting for someone who can't win can inadvertently help elect the very people I need to kick out.

Biden's the picture below, and I do like him. He's a good, honorable person and would be a very principled and competent president, but I never vote for anyone just because I like him or her the most or to make some kind of statement about who I am. The day I believed Biden was a weaker candidate than another good liberal Democrat would be the day he was history.

[TheFarseer]

81. Well I agree with that

Vote for someone that’s likely to get over 15%

[Hortensis]

96. Exactly. Very odd things going on with what pollsters

are reporting and can be really hard to guess what's true, of course. Happy day after. Wonder how many weeks it'll take for California to finish counting.

[Glaisne]

62. It's pretty sad that that no self-declared Socialist (or "social democrat" ) is going to win

the general election. Not now, not ever. It's so depressing.

[progree]

70. "It's pretty sad that that no self-declared Socialist (or "social democrat" ) is going to win"

Yes, not in 2020. Will work better when the boomers (like me) die off. (Not that this boomer is opposed to what Bernie or Elizabeth is proposing, but I know we're a minority in our age cohort).

[3catwoman3]

64. You thought it thru, and reached, IMO, a very logical...

...conclusion and chose to act on it. Logic and emotion are often in conflict with each other.

May your fellow Bernie supporters join you soon.

Thank you.

[Richard58]

66. Sigh.

I am a Bernie supporter and I think he would be the best thing for America since FDR. However I acknowledge that the "socialist" label hurts. Americans have been conditioned to give a knee-jerk reaction to the word "socialist" and many equate it with Stalin's Russia. (That's absurd but American's are not the brightest people in the world.) It depresses me that so many Americans hate socialism but yet they love Medicare and Social Security which are socialist programs. Bernie is no difference than any European politician. In fact I have heard some Europeans say that Bernie would be considered a centrist in their countries. So he is in no way radical.
But if Biden is the candidate so be it. I will vigorously campaign for him because I DESPISE that monster in the White House and I will gladly vote for him on election day. But I will say one thing. A lot of people here say that Bernie would never get any legislation passed. But what makes you think Biden will? Do you think the GOP will stop being a--holes should he win? Of course not. They will try to block everything he does. That is what they do! What we need are super-majorities in both the Senate and the House. Then stuff will get done no matter if it is Biden or Bernie.

[EndlessWire]

73. I understand

but you shouldn't put down American voters just because they don't agree with your opinion of Bernie. I personally did not vote for Bernie, and it wasn't a "knee-jerk reaction to the word socialist." This time, Bernie did the same thing he did last time, which for me was a failure of his campaign. This is what I got from Bernie: a lot of special programs and effects for which he provided no idea of where he would get the money except to raise taxes.

In California, we are being asked to pay more taxes almost monthly. Well, maybe not that bad, but it feels like it! Especially since food prices along with everything else is going up. I'm willing to bite the bullet a little more, if I have to, but waving extravagant dreams in my face without a pathway to them is not an endearing plea for my vote. The Primaries are always the playing field where you display your dreams and ideals, that's fine, but there has to be more than just that we're going to get it from the 1%.

The other thing that was very irritating was hearing about the antics of his supporters. Hell, I have enough stress in my life without our side acting up. Putting a Socialist into office isn't my agenda; my agenda is GETTING RID OF TRUMP. Now, I think something will happen to thwart that, but still, you have to try. Neither Bernie nor Biden was my first choice (Warren,) but if he wins, I'll support him, but not because of nor inspite of his projected policies. I want to oust a dictator. That's my motivation, and I suspect many voters this year are voting to oust Trump with whomever they feel can beat him.

I like Warren. I like Pete. And I like Amy. Any one of them would have made me happy. I feel like I'll have a stroke if I have to face four more years of Orange Asshole and all those Nazis who surround him.

[GulfCoast66]

87. Good post. But most European Parties do not generally call, or considered themselves Socialist

Because they are not. Europeans have much better political education than Americans. They know Socialism is state ownership of industry, which with few exceptions Europeans do not do. They, like me, are social democrats who support tightly regulated capitalism. But too many Americans, even those on the left hear about European Social Democratic or Some such Party name and think it means socialist.

To make matters worse, the DSA do support state ownership of industry and they are among Bernies biggest supporters. Camel nose under the tent kind of thing. Oh, there are 50,000 of them in a nation of 300 million.

Had Bernie shed the socialist label decades ago he might well be president. I actually agree with many of his positions. Not all, by any means but that goes for a politicians.

Have a nice evening.

[progree]

91. "Oh, there are 50,000 of them" Yeah! count me in! 50,001 now....

To make matters worse, the DSA do support state ownership of industry and they are among Bernies biggest supporters. Camel nose under the tent kind of thing. Oh, there are 50,000 of them in a nation of 300 million.

but don't think we are going to get Trump out of office that way. Don't want Trump to pick the next 2 Supreme Court justices (shudder to the nth power max) or to have some more whacks at destroying healthcare and leaving still more millions of Americans uninsured (already a Great American Genocide IMHO, horrified at the possibilty that it could get worse -- a certainty under TRump for four more years)

So I'm not in favor of risking it all in trying to sell Americans on socialism as much as I love Scandanavia. Would love to try, but Trump's trying to destroy the ACA (which was first time I had health insurance in more than a decade because before that it was a wild west of lies) and Medicare where I happily perch now FFS.

[EndlessWire]

97. Not a time for any of us to be faint hearted.

The Primaries are not the main work to be done. November 3rd is what we have to turn out for in fearsome droves.

"So I'm not in favor of risking it all in trying to sell Americans on socialism as much as I love Scandanavia." So, are you a pure Socialist? Because, otherwise you are projecting the same thinking that the average American gets criticized for when they reject the "Democratic Socialism" form of government. You have also called it socialism.

Maybe I haven't got it right, but I do not look at my Social Security as a freebie. The government took money out of my paycheck my entire working life, so I feel like it's work I did coming home to roost. I'm not embarrassed by it.

The point of my previous post was to point out that most citizens get it when they are told that Donald Trump and the TP are fascists. They can see this with every day that passes. We are not in a position to debate the finer points of "Social Democracy" and "Democratic Socialism." Trump is turning the United States into Trumplandia. He for sure isn't striving for any kind of government which might accrue to the benefit of We The People. No, he is in it for himself and his spawn. That's all. And he is willing to shred the Constitution in order to do it. I feel that Socialism will also want to shred the Constitution.

We are a long way from being perfect, for sure. But, we were getting better. As soon as Trump arrived, all those base-thinking people were given permission to come out from under their rocks. What a surprise to the rest of us! I certainly think that we can have anything we want if we figure out how to pay for it. But, it has to be a democratic decision by ALL of us, and not just by some people who got elected and then ran off with all the marbles.

We MUST win in November. I agree with you that this might not be enough to get rid of Trump and his thugs. I fear that. But, I do not choose to live under a dictator, and we have to find a way to get rid of Trump and to restore our country.

[MainSt99]

74. If Biden wins the nomination, I'll support him because Trump, but ...

Biden is 77 and his mind is showing the effects old age. As an example, in South Carolina, a week ago he told a crowd he's running for "United States Senate".
https://www.newsweek.com/joe-biden-says-hes-running-united-states-senate-while-south-carolina-supporters-say-its-1489034

And in the debates, his reactions were slow when faced with unexpected attacks.

Sanders recently said about Biden: "Trump would chew him up and spit him out". I believe this to be prescient. Whether Biden could prevail over Trump despite that disadvantage is doubtful. To me, the main thing is to replace Trump with a Democrat in the White House.

[progree]

77. Ughh. This deserves a response. Bernie will turn 80 in his first year of office

Biden in his 2nd year. They are about a year apart

I worry a lot about Biden.

But I think anyone who thinks they are going to win an election as a socialist is an idiot. Though maybe anyone can beat Trump if the stockmarket and economy crumbles. .. yes I keep track daily. So far (as of the end of January) the vast majority think the economy is doing well or great, and we'd being fooling ourselves otherwise with crap about "do you want fries with that" anecdotes.

In wonderfully wonderful ProgressiveLland, its all about MacJobs. In the real world where the vast majority live, and votes, there is constant yammering about all the job openings that are unfilled.

On the stock market - obviously there's been a big downtrend in the last 2 weeks, and maybe anyone who has a pulse and isn't too repulsive can beat Trump.

Bottom line: I'm not willing to take my chances on a socialist acceptance experiment at this juncture. And that was why I voted the way I did today (for Biden).

Socialist acceptance experiments? Yes I hope to vote for those in the future. But not today.

[Marcuse]

78. The Dotard is not the sharpest knife in the drawer, just the loudest and the lyingest.

[Duppers]

75. Well said.

Very well said!! And you said it all for me. I think we understand the nature of the voters in the country.

[peggysue2]

76. A big hattip to you, progree

[calimary]

83. THANK YOU, progree!

[SunSeeker]

88. Great post. You have a way with words.

[progree]

89. " You have a way with words." -- you are utterly kind beyond belief. Last time I heard that

was in college 45 years ago. You just gave me a phenominal youth experience. THANKS

[Randomthought]

90. Me, too

Voted for Bernieeverytime but we have to defeat Trump.

[progree]

93. In all this fan mail (and I know it's a one day phenomonon only), I sure appreciate this

from a south Minneapolis neighbor.

[Awsi Dooger]

92. Delusional idiot is harsh but I've said the same type of thing

It is necessary to shake up the knuckleheads who somehow believe preference doesn't matter and we're going to trounce Donald Trump with youth turnout backing a socialist.

If that isn't delusional idiocy I don't know what qualifies. Maybe me winning the Masters next month.

[lefthandedskyhook]

98. Biden is toast vs the monster

nt

[Just_Vote_Dem]

101. Great thread

Some good reading here. Thanks to everyone who posted

[Dennis Donovan]

103. You crystallized my thoughts on this - I backed Senator Sanders up until the 2016 convention

...because, after 8 successful years under a Dem POTUS, I wanted things to be kicked up a notch in regards to swinging the socioeconomic trajectory back in favor of the "99%". When Bernie didn't prevail, I gladly supported Secretary Clinton from the convention thru the GE.

This time around, we're in a MUCH different situation. Our institutions are in flames, our national character sullied. It's not a good time for dramatic, fundamental change. We need someone who will stabilize the mess and unite Americans because the job in front of us is a big one.

Cleanup; Aisle 2020.

[MrModerate]

104. My knock on Bernie? He's imagining he can get done in a single 4-year term...

What I'm convinced will take several presidencies and congresses to enact. Sadly, I think that means if he wins the presidency, he loses.

[Mickju]

105. I couldn't agree more.

[Sogo]

106. Bravo, progree.

....and good on you for being so forthright....

[Laripu]

107. Well thought out.

Well thought out and well expressed.
And the phrase "existential threat" is dead-on.

[hay rick]

108. Well stated.

My view is similar. I helped organize for Bernie in 2015. His programs and understanding of our problems are more similar to my own than any other candidate's. Unfortunately, a critical mass of the American electorate responds to branding and are unprepared and unwilling to engage in a serious consideration of issues. I believe Bernie's self-description as a democratic socialist makes him unelectable.