Joe Biden, Not Bernie Sanders, Is the True Scandinavian.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

Sanders totally misunderstands what’s behind Denmark’s safety net.

Bernie Sanders often cites Denmark as the kind of country he would like America to be under his ideology of “democratic socialism.” Well, here’s a news flash: Bernie Sanders, with his hostile attitudes toward free trade, free markets and multinational corporations, probably couldn’t get elected to a municipal council in Denmark today. Ironically, Joe Biden, with his more balanced views on trade, corporations and unions, probably could....

As the former Danish prime minister Lars Lokke Rasmussen once remarked in a speech at Harvard’s Kennedy School of Government to those who might not fully grasp the Danish model: “I would like to make one thing clear, Denmark is far from a socialist planned economy. Denmark is a market economy. The Nordic model is an expanded welfare state, which provides a high level of security for its citizens, but it is also a successful market economy with much freedom to pursue your dreams and live your life as you wish.”....

Denmark did not become Denmark because of a revolution. It evolved where it is today through a steady iteration — unleashing its entrepreneurs on the world to generate as much wealth as they could while constantly forging a dialogue at home among all the stakeholders about how best to share enough of the profits to have a truly just safety net, while not destroying the free-market, free-trade engines of growth, and while maintaining a high sales tax so everyone contributes something.

If Denmark’s social contract is your model — and it’s a good one — then I’d trust Biden much more than Bernie to head us there.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/10/opinion/sanders-biden-socialism.html?fbclid=IwAR0UshfjS6v-bqfDlkiNqfIFVIl2Oi2yuBgYhVALelJlJLUqA0wVHliWg94

[guillaumeb]

1. But to reach that goal,

we must expand the dialogue and argue that what works in Denmark can work here.

Sanders never argues for a planned economy, he argues that, in the case of MFA, it should not be left to private industry to control healthcare.

And the tax code, and the laws, play their part in regulating capitalists.

[Hortensis]

7. Sanders knows what the Scandinavian model is.

He knows that he's lying to all those who trust him when he claims that's what his democratic socialism is.

This statement is HUGE: The Nordic model is an expanded welfare state, which provides a high level of security for its citizens, but it is also a successful market economy with much freedom to pursue your dreams and live your life as you wish.”....

Sanders is opposed to that part. BIG time. He's even said that democratic socialism would develop better people in a better society and at times has vaguely hinted at sacrifices needed. But he does not discuss the freedoms that must be sacrificed in order to evolve into better people.

[FrozenMoonage]

2. That's misleading

This article is super misleading

Yes, the Danes have a high amount of individual economic freedom, and corporations are also not bogged down by regulations themselves. So yeah the economy is far from planned.
HOWEVER, free markets and the economic freedom of the individual are completely different.
The reason the PM can say accurately that, "[The Nordic Model] is a successful market economy with much freedom to pursue your dreams and live your life as you wish." is mainly because the individual is given much more freedom to act within a market than you'd find in America. This is mainly because of the robust labor unions found within Denmark which encompass a wide range of professions from manufacturing workers to lawyers.

It's with these trade unions that the Danish people are able to hold corporations accountable and demand a fair slice of the pie.
The Danish economy boasts "market freedom" in a much different way than the American version of "market freedom"
In America, our ideas of a free market manifest as a market in which corporations are allowed to do whatever they want. Market Freedom in America allows for corporations to pay starvation wages and to amass an inordinate amount of wealth while not contributing to the community. American market freedom is the freedom to exploit others and force workers to develop a dependency on the corporation they work for. American market freedom is the ability for huge corporations to consolidate a market that works within the interests of profit motive, not for the interests of the people working under them.

On the flip-side, Danish market freedom is the freedom to pursue any profession you want with the govt funding of higher education (colleges, trade schools). Danish market freedom is the ability for workers to organize and demand that if a corporation is thriving, the people working for it thrive as well. Danish market freedom is the ability of an individual to be able to leave their job if they don't enjoy it and find another without worrying about losing their employer-provided health care.

The Danish Govt itself levies high taxes (55% income tax) but actually uses those taxes to provide govt jobs that work to benefit everyone (Hell even the people employed by the govt have their own labor unions, so even then the public parts of the economy can't be "planned" without workers consent), and they use it to fund useful safety nets for everyone so people don't starve or die from preventable medical emergencies. The Danish govt also acts as an impartial entity between the capitalist class and the working class, acting as a completely neutral mediator because of the govt's long reaching reforms to limit corruption/bribery in govt. Unlike in America where most our senators have a paper trail of corporate lobbying in which they effectively serve as oligarchic puppets.

Biden doesn't really embody any of those things. Bernie does.

[TomVilmer]

3. Your take is more true to the reality of Denmark...

... and the quote carrying the first article is Lars Løkke Rasmussen, who has his very own conservative agenda.

[dansolo]

4. Bernie intentionally hides the taxes part

He wants to convince people that he can force only the rich to pay for these plans that everyone benefits from. Let's see how his approval rate would be if he proposed a 55% income tax for everyone and a VAT to fund his plans.

[TomVilmer]

5. Yes, we pay for all our nice security in Denmark by tax...

... and by not paying all the US insurances etc, we have plenty of money left for that tax and much more!

BTW - only the more wealthy pays 53 percent (including church tax). The rest of us pays 37 percent with lots of deductions. Which gives us all of those free doctors, unemployment benefits, pensions and such. I would like it to be even better - but would newer switch!

[FrozenMoonage]

6. not really

show me where Bernie said he's gonna raise EVERYONE'S income tax to 55%?
and please explain to me how that if he did that, and America's general happiness rose to Denmark's level, how would that be a bad thing?
i dont think american workers are stupid enough to realize when their material conditions are improving, and if things are better they'd be ok with it.
Though to begin with there's nowhere in the proposed medicare for all bill that says the income tax is going to be raised that high in the first place so all you're saying is conjecture
If you wanna know one of Bernie's proposed methods of funding m4a would be an added 4% tax on income with the first $29k you earn is exempt from the tax. Above $250k/yr is when the tax rate really starts to go up
If you earn more than $2mill a year you'd be taxed at like ~50% because it's a progressive tax structure. I'm not one to castrate myself for the rich and I'm against people being able to amass an inordinate amount of wealth without contributing to the community. rich people can certainly live comfy with that $1mil