Why Don't Bernie Voters Matter?

[qwlauren35]

Last edited Mon Mar 30, 2020, 07:36 PM - Edit history (1)

I'm still trying to understand this.

I understand that Bernie doesn't have the majority. I understand that the chance of him catching up to Biden is probably statistically zero. But he has a LOT of delegates. So that means a lot of voters, maybe 20-30% of the Democratic Party, like his message.

If such a huge percentage of the party still likes him, shouldn't some of his platform be seriously considered?

Instead of constantly saying "Bernie, drop out!" Why not say "Bernie supporters we hear you, we want you in the party. A lot of Bernie's ideas are good ideas. Let's work together to move forward, and see how many of his ideas we can pull into our platform."

[showblue22]

1. They want us to beg...

Just so they can say NO. Lol, I'm done with their game.

[The Magistrate]

2. They Make Themselves Irrelevant, Sir

The fact is Sanders campaigns not to gain the Democratic Party's nomination for President, but to weaken if not wreck the 'Democratic Establishment'. For 'Bernie', ousting Trump and ending the Republican majority in the Senate is barely an afterthought to this long-standing purpose. Once Sanders' supporters face this fact squarely, they may be able to decide honestly what their best course in this election is: voting against 'Bernie' in any future primary, and for Mr. Biden and Democrats all down the ticket to the lowest office on the ballot come November.

It is probably true that Sanders sees destroying the 'Democratic Establishment' as an essential precondition to defeating Trump et al, and so by his own lights he means it when he says he will do all he can to defeat Trump. But that belief is so self-serving and delusional it deserves not just scorn but contempt.

The only purpose his voters serve now is to provide 'Bernie' with a weapon to employ for blackmail.





"From Bernie’s perspective, dropping out of a race once you have no chance of winning is peculiar behavior that can only be explained by the work of a hidden hand. For most politicians, though, it is actually standard operating procedure. Only Sanders seems to think the normal thing to do once voters have made clear they don’t want to nominate you is to continue campaigning anyway."





"When things are not called by their right names, what is said cannot make sense. When what is said does not make sense, what is planned cannot succeed. When plans do not succeed, people become uneasy. When people are uneasy, punishments do not fit crimes. When punishments do not fit crimes, people cannot know where to put hand or foot."

[Tribalceltic]

59. Well Said!

[Gothmog]

72. sanders has attacked the party and establishment Democrats

sanders wants to remake the Democratic Party into his own image and most of the party have no interest in sanders' vision for the party. I have worked long and hard to turn Texas blue and adoption of sanders vision of the party would kill down ballot candidates. After 2010, there were 101 republicans in the Texas state House compared to 49 Democrats. Due to Beto and demographic shifts, Democrats picked up 12 state house seats in 2018 and now need 9 additional seats. The party is targeting 19 or so state seats including 10 seat that Beto had the majority in.

We flipped two congressional districts and have targeted 7 additional seats. There is a chance that MJ Hegar could flip the Senate seat

If sanders vision for the party was adopted, we would lose Lizzie's and Colin's and give up any chance of picking up any additional seats

I like the current Democratic Party and see no need to remake the party into the image of sanders

[The Magistrate]

92. I Salute Your Efforts, Sir

Many of us at the North have high hopes for Texas this year, and it is a pleasure to address one of the people making tha possible.

[Gothmog]

102. We are gearing up for voter protection

We are also trying to start up a statewide Democratic Lawyers Association. Harris County has an organization that has over 600 active members. We hope to get a statewide parent otganization and chapters in key blue areas

[The Magistrate]

105. That Will Doubtless Be Necessary, Sir

"When conservatives conclude their views cannot prevail in a democracy, they will not abandon their views. They will abandon Democracy."

[Gothmog]

109. The GOP is the party of voter suppression

I have been volunteering on voter protection efforts since 2004 when I went to Florida as part of the Kerry Edwards voter protection team. Texas republicans are really nasty Texas had a very nasty voter ID law that the party and Marc Veasey were able to gut in court. I was in a meeting with the local GOP county party chair who got mad that I would not agree with his firm belief that poor people who did not have a “proper” ID did not deserve to vote. The trial court had ruled on the case and the issue was before the 5th Circuit at the time. I had read all of the trial briefs and fun citing the evidence used in the lawsuit. This asshole was firm that it was okay to deny the vote to poor people.

This quote from trump amuses me in that I have seen this attitude up close

Link to tweet

?s=20

[The Magistrate]

110. Richard Viguerie Was Making Speeches to This Effect, Sir, In Reagan's Time

Saying if everybody votes Republicans lose....

They have long known they cannot win honestly.

[Gothmog]

112. Here is a great quote from the founder of the Heritage Foundation

Link to tweet

[The Magistrate]

116. Thank You, Sir

I may have misplaced my names again --- that is the quote and fellow I was thinking of. I will try and remember in future....

[Gothmog]

123. I first heard Paul Weyrich's name back in 2004 at a training session in Florida

I have been working on voter protection issues for a very long time and it had become very clear to me that the GOP is the party of voter suppression

[Sunlei]

121. Thank you Gothmog, I'm in Texas and a few things about the TxGOP vote supression.

1.I take a few people to vote every election because they don't have transportation. Some D program to provide an Uber ride would bring in more votes. These rides need to happen during the early voting days.

2.One person I know- 'someone' changed their voter registration from harris county to a fort bend county address. They weren't even able to vote in the last election. polling Judge told them no, they'd have to go to the incorrect location and vote provisional. They went home and didn't vote at all. I don't think this was the only person with changed voter registration information. It wouldn't hurt to blanket the state with voter registration cards (postage I think is paid) so people could re-register.

3. and this is probably where much suppression 'was' planned to happen for 2020 GE- The change in Drivers License & Tx ID cards to 'REAL ID'. Some Tx persons can't renew online because their original application didn't require a ss card to be viewed. Texas started to send out letters this year requiring in person renewal with original ss card.

3a. because of corona virus locations are closed. DMV is allowing 60 days extra to renew. 60 days isn't enough. Is there anyway your group can help push this renewal/'REAL ID' issue to 2021? Push it to 2021 so it doesn't hurt the November General election voters at all.

ref info- https://www.dps.texas.gov/DriverLicense/

ref info on In accordance with section 418.016 of the Texas Government Code, the Office of the Governor approved the Department's request to suspend provisions of the Texas Transportation Code to the extent necessary to delay the expiration date of Driver Licenses (DL), Commercial Driver Licenses (CDL), Personal Identification Cards (ID), and Election Certificates (EIC).

If your Texas DL, ID, CLP, CDL card or EIC expires on or after March 13, 2020, you are granted a waiver for the expiration date for 60 days after the Department provides further public notice that normal operations have resumed.



https://www.dps.texas.gov/DriverLicense/covid-19.htm

The information requiring an in person renewal with original ss card in hand is in the normal renewal letter sent out to all car license/state id holders.

[Ellen Forradalom]

84. The self-importance of certain of his Bros

makes them useful idiots indeed. Bernie and his Bros don't bargain in good faith. It's clear they want nothing short of the party apparatus handed to them on a platter without so much as a whimper of protest. They have no intention of being solid coalition partners.

[Jokerman]

163. You couldn't be more wrong.

"The fact is Sanders campaigns not to gain the Democratic Party's nomination for President" - LOL

Maybe if the "democratic establishment" would stop trying to tell us what we think and actually listen to us, your so called "facts" would be exposed as the real delusion.

The truth is that many of us are fed up with general elections where our choices have been engineered down to a republican, and as Truman said, "A democrat who acts like a republican." We are literally sick and tired of being told that issues like health care and living wages have to be put on hold once again so that the bankers and defense contractors can get even richer off of our backs.

The democratic party is not a monolithic voting block. The nominee will have to make an honest effort to appeal to the half of the party that voted against him in the primary. Belittling us and our issues while telling us that we're not needed, as was done in 2016 will be a recipe for disaster.

[The Magistrate]

164. Thank You For Confirming My Point, Sir

It is always a pleasure when someone on the other side of the question does that, and I do appreciate the assistance.

Your entire post sums up as 'Democrats are just like Republicans', and that an insurgency to take over Party leadership is the need of the hour. With a few trimmings of gross over-estimate of the proportion of our Party, and the national electorate, which believes 'Revolution is the Solution'.

None of these things is true. Roughly a third of the Democratic Party primary electorate supports 'Bernie' and his revolution, which amounts to perhaps a tenth of the national electorate. And of this number, by far the greater proportion do understand the absolute necessity of evicting the cheap thug Trump and McConnell, the gravedigger of our Republic, from office. These people will in November support Mr. Biden and Democrats all the way down to municipal dog-catcher with their ballots. People whose loyalty to 'Bernie' runs to the point of active nihilism do not number more than one in fifty among the general electorate, and probably amount to even less. There are situations in which these slim pickings can do harm, mind, but it is unlikely they could be courted anyway, without losing more votes towards the center. The energy in this year's election comes from middle of the road types grown disgusted with the cheap thug Trump, and the energy of rank and file Democrats who hate the creature like poison. The level of concession the small splinter whose principal loyalty is to 'Bernie' would demand for support of Mr. Biden would repel the former group and enrage the latter group.

The problem 'Bernie' and his most devoted followers need to face up to is not one of policies, but of personalities and background. Very little 'Bernie' proposes is opposed, as a goal, by Democratic Party supporters. None of it originates with 'Bernie', and he holds no patent on any of these goals. Very few Democrats, however, consider 'Bernie' capable of achieving the goals he annunciates. He has demonstrated throughout his career that he lacks much ability to 'work and play well with others'. He would, if by some miracle he attained the Presidency, prove utterly incapable of securing majorities for his programs in the Congress. Most Democrats understand 'Bernie' is fatally flawed as a candidate for President, faced in a nationwide general election by a ruthless opponent willing to exploit his extremely problematic background as a Marxist radical. This is not brought up much in Democratic primary campaigning, but our enemies would not be so considerate of the sensibilities of the most devoted followers 'Bernie' has garnered through the years, and 'Crazy Bernie the Commie' would certainly be a staple line, and a most effective one as well.

As for the 'Democrats are just like Republicans' line, anyone who can look at the present situation and maintain that with a straight face may be excused further participation in the process. Such a one could be counted on to step out his door with his shoes on his head and his feet in his hat.





"From Bernie’s perspective, dropping out of a race once you have no chance of winning is peculiar behavior that can only be explained by the work of a hidden hand. For most politicians, though, it is actually standard operating procedure. Only Sanders seems to think the normal thing to do once voters have made clear they don’t want to nominate you is to continue campaigning anyway."





"When things are not called by their right names, what is said cannot make sense. When what is said does not make sense, what is planned cannot succeed. When plans do not succeed, people become uneasy. When people are uneasy, punishments do not fit crimes. When punishments do not fit crimes, people cannot know where to put hand or foot."

[Don1]

3. They need to be shamed into submission?

[The Magistrate]

9. They Need To Be Prevented From Lending Themselves To Bernie's' Blackmail, Sir

To the degree 'Bernie' can brandish the claim some portion of his voters will not vote for anyone else, except possibly for this cheap thug Trump, he feels he can extort concessions from the Party well in excess of what his standing might entitle him to. It is his supporters who need to let 'Bernie' know they are not a pistol in his pocket.


"Now that is cool. A highwayman puts a pistol to my head and says give me your money, or I will have to shoot you, and then you will become a murderer."




"From Bernie’s perspective, dropping out of a race once you have no chance of winning is peculiar behavior that can only be explained by the work of a hidden hand. For most politicians, though, it is actually standard operating procedure. Only Sanders seems to think the normal thing to do once voters have made clear they don’t want to nominate you is to continue campaigning anyway."





"When things are not called by their right names, what is said cannot make sense. When what is said does not make sense, what is planned cannot succeed. When plans do not succeed, people become uneasy. When people are uneasy, punishments do not fit crimes. When punishments do not fit crimes, people cannot know where to put hand or foot."

[Don1]

14. That's not true.

There's no extortion. It's called DEMOCRACY.

[The Magistrate]

20. Yes It Is, Sir

'Bernie' tunes his supporters to such a pitch that he can make a credible threat to the leadership of the Party that if he is not placated, enough of his followers will stay home, or even vote for this cheap thug Trump, to do damage to the prospects of the Democratic ticket.

That is blackmail.

He has form, he did it in 2016.





"From Bernie’s perspective, dropping out of a race once you have no chance of winning is peculiar behavior that can only be explained by the work of a hidden hand. For most politicians, though, it is actually standard operating procedure. Only Sanders seems to think the normal thing to do once voters have made clear they don’t want to nominate you is to continue campaigning anyway."





"When things are not called by their right names, what is said cannot make sense. When what is said does not make sense, what is planned cannot succeed. When plans do not succeed, people become uneasy. When people are uneasy, punishments do not fit crimes. When punishments do not fit crimes, people cannot know where to put hand or foot."

[Thekaspervote]

27. Agree completely

[Don1]

124. No

That is not true. There is a distribution in the Democratic Party. Most of the leftmost tail in the distribution support Bernie. Because it is at the extreme, you also have people who will not vote for a rightward candidate. You also have very left people brought into the DP. Of course some of those people are not going to vote for Biden. That is what happens on the extreme end. Bernie will maximize these people voting Biden.

As far as the point you refuse to address, the delegates at the convention ought to have progressives with proportional representation. Bernie needs to stay in the race OR they need to make a deal to get a representative number of progressive delegates. That will feed into the party platform and DNC staff. That is DEMOCRACY.

[The Magistrate]

135. There Would Be No Point In Merely Repeating Myself, Sir

I have stated facts. You are free to deny them, and cling to illusions you find comforting. The world can be a harsh and hard place, and it is understandable if you do. People often enjoy feeling themselves part of a crowd, one of many like themselves. They do so especially when it is manifestly obvious that the sort of person they are is not actually very numerous. Most claims to 'stand out against the herd' are at bottom attempts at exaggerating the size of the herd the person making such claims identifies with.

But your right to do this is no reason anyone should take you seriously when you do. You apparently are willing to claim 'DEMOCRACY' is a backroom deal to get by prearrangement a number of delegates whose views you share which is in excess of what can be carried by counting ballots. Indeed, you seem to believe that 'DEMOCRACY' means the minority can dictate terms to the majority. These are not meanings many people would attach to the word. They run quite contrary to the common understanding of the term, and to the normal function of any democratic system.

The fact is that the energy in this election lies with two groups. First, middle of the road types who are disgusted by this cheap thug Trump, and the passion of rank and file Democrats who hate this cheap thug Trump like poison. The 'Bernie' left has made itself expendable. Any great concession given him will repel the middle of the road types, and enrage the rank and file of Democratic voters, who have turned out in great numbers determined to see off 'Bernie' before he can do to their hopes what he did his best to do four years ago. If the left-most tail of the Party continues to proclaim it cannot be relied on to vote for the Party's nominee, and seeks by blackmail rooted in this unreliability to secure representation out of proportion to their number, the Party is left no choice but to try and make up the deficit from voters more towards the center. There just aren't that many dyed in the wool leftists in the electorate which campaigns seeking victory in a nationwide general election must harvest votes from. The course taken by left elements of the Party is worse than futile, it is counterproductive. It all but ensures left views will have no place at the table, and drives the Party not towards the left but to the center.






"From Bernie’s perspective, dropping out of a race once you have no chance of winning is peculiar behavior that can only be explained by the work of a hidden hand. For most politicians, though, it is actually standard operating procedure. Only Sanders seems to think the normal thing to do once voters have made clear they don’t want to nominate you is to continue campaigning anyway."





"When things are not called by their right names, what is said cannot make sense. When what is said does not make sense, what is planned cannot succeed. When plans do not succeed, people become uneasy. When people are uneasy, punishments do not fit crimes. When punishments do not fit crimes, people cannot know where to put hand or foot."

[Don1]

141. You are NOT stating facts.

Here's an example:
"Indeed, you seem to believe that 'DEMOCRACY' means the minority can dictate terms to the majority."

No. Progressives should have proportional representation at the convention and not be preempted out of it! That's DEMOCRACY.

Here's another example:
"You apparently are willing to claim 'DEMOCRACY' is a backroom deal to get by prearrangement a number of delegates whose views you share which is in excess of what can be carried by counting ballots."

Anyone saying that Bernie should drop out is in favor of decreasing the progressive vote share to be DISPROPORTIONAL, not in excess at all! But instead LESS THAN what it out to be in free and fair elections!

Additionally, you attack me by saying it is because "whose views (I) share." No, actually I do NOT share all of Bernie's views and am somewhere in the middle of Biden and Bernie.

But the pure and unadulterated unfairness of the attacks on Bernie and unsubstantiated nonsense, including in some of your posts, has me on edge.

I support DEMOCRACY and OBJECTIVITY, not smears and unfairness. Progressives deserve a fair seat at the table, neither excess nor undercutting them.

Go DEMOCRACY!

[The Magistrate]

143. Your Own Words, Sir

"Bernie needs to stay in the race OR they need to make a deal to get a representative number of progressive delegates. That will feed into the party platform and DNC staff. That is DEMOCRACY." (emphasis added)

That is a backroom deal. Perhaps your basic problem is you are addressing yourself to people fluent in English who have no difficulty comprehending the meaning of the words you use. There is no surer indication of sloppy thinking than sloppy writing.

'Bernie' runs as a wrecker. His actions assisted this cheap thug Trump in 2016, and can only serve to assist this cheap thug Trump this year as well. When a person persists in actions which can only have one result, others must conclude that the result he achieves is the result he intends, particularly when there has been ample warning of those consequences, and they are so obvious a mere tyro can see their danger at a glance.

The fact is Sanders campaigns not to gain the Democratic Party's nomination for President, but to weaken if not wreck the 'Democratic Establishment'. For 'Bernie', ousting this cheap thug Trump and ending the Republican majority in the Senate is barely an afterthought to this long-standing purpose. Once Sanders' supporters face this fact squarely, they may be able to decide honestly what their best course in this election is: voting against 'Bernie' in any future primary, and for Mr. Biden and Democrats all down the ticket to the lowest office on the ballot come November.

It is probably true that Sanders sees destroying the 'Democratic Establishment' as an essential precondition to defeating this cheap thug Trump et al, and so by his own lights perhaps he means it when he says he will do all he can to defeat this cheap thug Trump. But that belief is so self-serving and delusional it deserves not just scorn but contempt.






"From Bernie’s perspective, dropping out of a race once you have no chance of winning is peculiar behavior that can only be explained by the work of a hidden hand. For most politicians, though, it is actually standard operating procedure. Only Sanders seems to think the normal thing to do once voters have made clear they don’t want to nominate you is to continue campaigning anyway."





"When things are not called by their right names, what is said cannot make sense. When what is said does not make sense, what is planned cannot succeed. When plans do not succeed, people become uneasy. When people are uneasy, punishments do not fit crimes. When punishments do not fit crimes, people cannot know where to put hand or foot."

[Don1]

145. My own words

In my own words, I wrote "REPRESENTATIVE NUMBER." Proportional representation is democracy.

This isn't a "BACKROOM DEAL"--your words, but out in the open because of the corona virus. DEMOCRACY requires transparency and proportional representation. Not PREEMPTIVELY removing the progressive vote from the delegates!

Calling an out in the open deal based on proportional representation a "backroom deal" is counter-factual and a smear. Meanwhile, supporting undercutting progressive representation in the delegate count is UNDEMOCRATIC.

Up is not Down!

Go DEMOCRACY!

[The Magistrate]

147. Good Luck, And Thank You For The Laugh

Last edited Tue Mar 31, 2020, 03:01 PM - Edit history (1)

Anything that is the result of 'negotiation' rather than ballots is a deal, and by definition has nothing to do with democracy. Parties to negotiation weigh their strength against one another, and the resulting settlement reflects the actual power at the disposal of each. Not what either side thinks it is entitled to, or even hopes or wants to have, but what it can actually prevail on the other to accept or grant.

"An election differs from Waterloo only as the bloodless surrender of a force outnumbered in the field differs from any open battle."





"From Bernie’s perspective, dropping out of a race once you have no chance of winning is peculiar behavior that can only be explained by the work of a hidden hand. For most politicians, though, it is actually standard operating procedure. Only Sanders seems to think the normal thing to do once voters have made clear they don’t want to nominate you is to continue campaigning anyway."





"When things are not called by their right names, what is said cannot make sense. When what is said does not make sense, what is planned cannot succeed. When plans do not succeed, people become uneasy. When people are uneasy, punishments do not fit crimes. When punishments do not fit crimes, people cannot know where to put hand or foot."

[OAITW r.2.0]

79. How about acknowledging the obvious?

The Party is behind Joe. The people are behind Joe. Why not jump in and work to push the Sander agenda with the rest of us against Trump? After we rid ourselves of Republican obstruction, then we can have a national debate on a range of issues - healthcare, climate change, and energy choices.

Even the most committed Bernie supporters ought to be smart enough to know that they can be far more effective supporting Biden and getting Bernie's agenda in our legislative priorities after we rid ourselves of the political terminal cancer that is destroying this country.

[Hortensis]

4. Well, because Democrats aren't really an alternative to

Republicans. Sanders once described the choice as between just Tweedledum and Tweedledee.

So you see, it's actually that NO voters matter EXCEPT Sanders voters.

[oasis]

37. Exactly. nt

[betsuni]

40. +1

[Thekaspervote]

41. Sanders also called democrats intellectually bankrupt

[mikeysnot]

51. Link please...

[Hortensis]

95. You're kidding? Sanders says this stuff in many ways,

I believe almost every day, but how often depending on how many speeches/interviews he's giving. Who knows what he says in private about Democrats (!), but in public he's like a talking doll with its string pulled. Almost any question about a Republican problem is liable to generate some variation on, "Anyway, the Democrats do it too."

No, we don't do it too, and how can it be that you never noticed this endless string of slanderous whoppers?

[The Magistrate]

99. It Strikes Once Again, Ma'am

"This pretense of not knowing what everybody knows has come to dominate our political discourse."

Actually, it is a fairly basic technique of trolling. The aim of trolling is to get a disproportionate reaction from someone. If with a simple one word query, 'Link?', someone can be baited to spend time searching the web for citations to prove something the person making the query already knows is true, he has won, in his own mind. He spent a few seconds time, and someone else devoted several minutes at least to making a reply. You may be sure any link posted would have been dismissed, probably for being out of context, in hope of repeating the pathetic little win.

Sanders has said on several occasions "I am not, and never have been, a liberal Democrat." Probably while mayor of Burlington, but as we all know, 'Bernie' sticks to his principles and is consistent, so there is no reason to suspect he has changed that view.

Anyone who wants to take the time can look it up. It's out there....






"From Bernie’s perspective, dropping out of a race once you have no chance of winning is peculiar behavior that can only be explained by the work of a hidden hand. For most politicians, though, it is actually standard operating procedure. Only Sanders seems to think the normal thing to do once voters have made clear they don’t want to nominate you is to continue campaigning anyway."





"When things are not called by their right names, what is said cannot make sense. When what is said does not make sense, what is planned cannot succeed. When plans do not succeed, people become uneasy. When people are uneasy, punishments do not fit crimes. When punishments do not fit crimes, people cannot know where to put hand or foot."

[Hortensis]

115. :) You're right. But sometimes I like to shoot down

false or just undermining messages with information for anyone else reading, causing the post to backfire.

[ehrnst]

165. "When advised that his third-party candidacy might result in a Republican victory,

he saw no difference between Democrats and Republicans, saying: “It is absolutely fair to say you are dealing with Tweedledum and Tweedledee.”

https://www.democraticunderground.com/110742390

You're welcome.

[snowybirdie]

5. His ideas are good and need discussion, but

given he won't be the nominee at this point, he keeps dividing us. The menace we face needs to be defeated and it will take all liberals and progressives to come together to retake our government. Policy issues can be debated once thinking and competent people are again running things.

[dansolo]

162. Don't fall into that trap. His ideas aren't good.

Proposing something that is not at all feasable, and then lying about it on top of that, is not what I would consider good ideas. Good ideas are those that can have a reasonable chance of success.

[Nonhlanhla]

6. Nobody's saying that Bernie voters don't matter

In fact, it's the Bernie folks who are saying that Biden's voters don't matter, because they're constantly complaining that "the DNC" or "the Establishment" chose Biden - no, VOTERS did, not the DNC or some shadowy "Establishment."

But Bernie lost and will not catch up, so it's time to end it and get focused on the general election. This is how it's always done. Those who do not stand a chance bow out before they sow more division and start helping the frontrunner get ready for the general election. It's just Bernie who does not want to play by those rules.

[pnwmom]

7. Why don't Biden voters matter? Why doesn't that fact that Biden has 300 more delegates

and they are heading into even more difficult primaries for Bernie convince his supporters that it's time to unite behind Joe Biden?

[questionseverything]

45. i am more than willing to unite behind joe but i also have asked for an explanation

as to why the public option will be a good fix compared to m4a, I just want details and what I get from biden supporters on this board is...o he has talked about all that but I have read his web page, there are no details

what I hear is expand Medicaid, and while Medicaid is better than nothing, it is a nightmare if you are seriously sick, with co pays and meds not being covered

I feel this is especially important if insurance premiums are going to go up 40% next year

I do a lot of phone work for the dems and I need sound bites that work to win over Bernie voters, undecided, whoever

those over 50 got clobbered by the aca, we need details to show joe realizes there is a problem and he has a fix in mind

[comradebillyboy]

50. Incremental change works slowy but surely.

Public option is a big step forward to real universal coverage and it possible. Pushing a plan that has insufficient support gets nothing.

[questionseverything]

54. so what exactly is the public option gonna cost,what will it cover,who will get subsidies, like that

I understand he will have to negotiate but where is his starting place?

[comradebillyboy]

63. Beats me...

[thucythucy]

82. You might find answers to these questions

by going first to Biden's web site, where his health plan is spelled out in fairly great detail.

You might then want to check out the Democratic Party Platform on health care reform for additional information.

The Biden campaign has apparently put a lot of thought into this, and how best to represent it to undecided voters. Why not do that first, and see then if you still have questions?

[questionseverything]

93. i have read his web site...it is pretty vague

as far as the dem platform peops have told me extending medicare to 50 year olds is part of that platform, if that is true biden could really help himself by expounding on why he supports that


I am asking for the candidate himself to push the details he believes in,
hopefully to bring in the part of the party that has previously been left out of the medical benefits so far.

[qwlauren35]

52. I hope you get what you need.

I wasn't able to find what I needed from his website because there was so much "dressing".

If you think Medicaid isn't good enough, then Medicare 4 All is definitely not the solution. Medicaid covers a lot more than Medicare does. Both have co-pays.

My step-daughter had Medicaid. She was jobless and had her third baby in the nicest maternity singles room imaginable. I would bet that she paid $50 or less.

Please start writing letters to editors and on his Facebook page (if he has one) with your questions and see what you get.

[questionseverything]

61. m4a is medicare on steroids..they just called it medicare because peops were familiar with the term

I have always thought m4a was undoable as Bernie described it,no co pays,no premiums and including dental and glasses but if we were starting from that point we would probably negotiate down to a generous public option

since I cant even find where biden wants to start, I don't have as much faith in the end negotiations

Medicaid is better for children than for adults, I have a grown daughter who took some tests in November that showed spots over 3 sets of organs,it is march now and Medicaid still will not ok her seeing an oncologist after tons more testing, each with a co pay

for her it would take a miracle at this point

btw I enjoy reading your posts , you seem kind and measured

[qwlauren35]

71. Thanks much.

Twelve months ago, I told my friends that I didn't care who won the primaries, as long as Trump lost in November. I stand by that firmly. I think not having a preference excuses me from the anger and ugliness that I see here.

Having put the "Bernie" sign below me will probably get me taken less seriously, but I accept that. I applaud Bernie's charities. That's the only reason why I "chose" him.

I am happy to be kind and measured.

Hugs to you in these dangerous times.

[Rilgin]

83. Just call them members of a cult. Thats what some people here think works.

Some people will not vote for Joe. Most people will. I would not worry about people not voting for an opposing candidate after a primary. Its pretty normal. The only thing that will increase the percentage of people not voting is what some people on this site and on this Thread seems to work, try to beat them over the head on how their support for their preferred candidate is misplaced and that he is actually the worst person to ever live on the planet.

What works is what they don't do. Have respect for others opinions. Acknowledging that they like Bernie and are not enthusiastic about Joe but should vote for Biden cause Trump is a disaster for all of us might work. Acknowledge that even though Bernie lost that his voters are a large and important part of the democratic party coalition might be a good idea. We need everyone to vote Trump out. Pretending that Bernie voters are cultists, unreasonable, deluded or stupid is just not a good idea.

So my advice is to ignore the advice you get from People who hate Bernie and listen to people who ignore the constant Bernie bashing and still both like Bernie and are willing to vote for Joe Biden.

[pnwmom]

103. Ask Elizabeth Warren. She was smart enough to know that Medicare was constructed

step by step, and so can Medicare for all.

First, offer a strong public option that people will voluntarily flock too. Then turn THAT into Medicare for all.

By the way, you don't understand Medicare if you think there aren't copays and meds not being covered. Only Part A is free. The rest is optional and costs extra. And Bernie, unlike Elizabeth, hasn't explained how he'll pay for it.

[questionseverything]

168. bernie said it was a step up from medicare

all I know is "this strong public option" has no info about what it will cost

and since I fell for that line last time, I want details

the ovr 50 crowd get rapes by the aca premiums and smokers are totally out of luck but a 600 pound peop that drinks a gallon of booze a day is just fine

ticks me off when people go on about how to pay for it.....I am not hearing that about this 2.2 trillion dollar virus bailout

[pnwmom]

170. Not true. Elizabeth Warren's website went into great detail about her plan

and how to pay for it. Bernie's doesn't.

[questionseverything]

172. you didn't address anything i said

last I checked liz is not going to be the nominee so whatever she said about paying for anything doesn't really matter

btw I love liz and feel her policies come closest to bernies so I really am puzzled when liz supporters hate sanders

[pnwmom]

177. Warren doesn't constantly disparage other Democrats or the DNC.

She views herself as a member of the team and because of that, she'd have a great deal more chance of getting her plans into place if she'd been the nominee.

Bernie , by contrast, is a my way or the highway kind of guy, and proud of it.

[questionseverything]

178. i would still love liz to be the vp candidate

maybe it is because I am not on much social media but the only place I hear about Bernie doing the bashing is here at du

I am more an idea person not a personality person, personalities can be "changed" depending on who you are in front of

I get a hoot out of the argument that liz could pay for m4a but Bernie couldn't/////like she wouldn't tell him or what?

and again no worries over that 2.2 trillion dollars we just borrowed?

[pnwmom]

179. If Bernie were the candidate we don't know what plan he'd be trying to sell in the general.

That's the problem. It sounded like pie in the sky to me and to many. For one thing, calling it Medicare for All was clearly not accurate, since only Part A is covered without any further payment. How did Bernie intend to pay for Parts B, C, and D? He wouldn't say. That apparently was fine with his fervent supporters but it wouldn't be enough for the general.

[Blue Streak Science]

8. They Don't VOTE

If Sanders "voters" could not be bothered to show up at the polls for their candidate in the primaries, then why should we expect them to show up to vote for the Democratic nominee in the general? Answer: We can't. Sanders "voters" don't matter because Sanders "voters" don't vote.

[RGinNJ]

10. +1

[Vogon_Glory]

15. Had Bernie supporters turned out in 2016 numbers

Maybe we could have taken them more seriously. But when fewer of them turn out to vote this year than four years ago, I don’t see them as being as relevant as they were in days gone by.

Turning out to vote gets you noticed and gives you clout. Sitting on the sidelines and whining doesn’t.

[DAngelo136]

11. They DO Matter

But Sanders' supporters, like their candidate will not compromise. They believe that compromising will betray their ideals and ideology.

By railing against "Establishment Democrats" they've painted themselves into a corner. On the one hand, they don't want to sully themselves by associating with the DNC (Their sworn enemy) on the other, they need those same "Establishment Democrats" to win; that's why Bernie ran in the first place as a Democrat

You can best believe that if the positions were reversed and it was Biden trailing behind Bernie, not only would they welcome the DNC assistance, they'd demand that all other Democrats fall in line and support Bernie without question. Like Bernie, their inflexibility and dogmatism dooms them. While the vast majority is "Vote Blue, no matter who", the Sanders supporters have a caveat: "...unless it's not Bernie, then all deals are off."

The Biden supporters, being pragmatic would in the words of LBJ,rather have them inside the tent pissing out rather than outside the tent, pissing in. In any event, we have to prepare for the likelihood that Sanders supporters will sit it out in a fit of pique and beat Trump without them. It IS doable.

[qwlauren35]

23. Does their "Revolution" have any merit at all?

My husband is a Bernie supporter. (I'm not, I just like donating to his charities.)

It's very hard for me to listen to what he says because there's so much anger. But I try. And what I hear is: the 1% need to pay their fair share of taxes, and the corporations need to have their power taken away from them. Candidates who are not willing to take power away from the corporations are "Establishment" candidates.

Bernie supporters believe (and its partly true) that the majority of Senators and Representatives are "owned" by corporations and lobbies, and given the uncomfortable option of choosing between their "owners", and the American people, the "owners" will win. We have all seen it happen. Bernie supporters believe (and its partly true) that the majority of Senators and Representatives will never go after dismantling the Military Industrial Complex or the Prison Industrial Complex, or the Health Insurance and Pharmaceutical industries because they are too big, too lucrative, and too interwoven into our society.

Me personally, I say: easier said than done. But I think Warren would have tried.

I have not seen anything that suggests that Biden is going to take on America's corporations and the 1% and force them to give a bigger share of the pie to America's citizens, or better still, put an end to their greed in some way.

This is, apparently, what 30% of Democratic VOTERS (count those delegates. Those are voters, not just supporters) want.

I have others in my family who prefer Bernie but will suck it up and vote for Biden. They are disappointed that there will be no revolution. They really hoped for one.

I really feel as though 30% of the Democratic Party is not being heard. And it saddens me.

[questionseverything]

47. well stated

we cant win without that 30 %

[brush]

88. The so-called 30% were heard in the primaries already taken place. They didn't prevail.

Democracy is as it always has been, the majority rules. Why don't the 30% get that? Sanders and them should get behind Biden and help defeat trump.

He is the enemy not the majority that voted for Biden and not Sanders.

[HarlanPepper]

140. It was heard

We’ve had a multitude of primaries. Don’t confuse not being heard with not winning.

[zentrum]

12. Excellent question.

[marble falls]

13. They do matter. Just not as much as the majority of voters.Why should the opinions of ...

30 - 40% mean more than 60 - 70% of everybody else? How did you feel when 47% of the voters over rode the 53% of them or do you think Trump voters as a large minority deserved to be heard?

[The Magistrate]

19. Excellent Point, Sir

.





"From Bernie’s perspective, dropping out of a race once you have no chance of winning is peculiar behavior that can only be explained by the work of a hidden hand. For most politicians, though, it is actually standard operating procedure. Only Sanders seems to think the normal thing to do once voters have made clear they don’t want to nominate you is to continue campaigning anyway."





"When things are not called by their right names, what is said cannot make sense. When what is said does not make sense, what is planned cannot succeed. When plans do not succeed, people become uneasy. When people are uneasy, punishments do not fit crimes. When punishments do not fit crimes, people cannot know where to put hand or foot."

[qwlauren35]

28. I am African-American

We make up 14% of the American population.

We struggle to be heard, we struggle for our issues to win support. We RELY on white people to take the time to listen to us and consider our needs. We will never, never, never be the majority.

So, when people say that we should not listen to the minority of voters, and that minority is 30%, I cringe. If a 30% minority can't be heard, what chance to black people have?

[democrank]

35. You matter to me, qwl35.

I mean that.

[Hav]

46. You will be heard

if you are part of a coalition and work together with others who strive for similar goals. There is no alternative to this.
I think the whole premise of this thread is incorrect. It's not that BS voters don't matter or that policy suggestions of all the other candidates will be automatically discarded. But when different interests come together, it is a process of compromises. BS so far showed a remarkable tendency to not be a part of this process.

[The Magistrate]

48. You Might Want To Ask Mr. Sanders, Sir

The much bruited 'reforms' he insisted on for the 'superdelegate' system in 2016 reduced the influence of black Democrats in elected or Party office, and were bitterly protested by the Congressional Black Caucus. But 'Bernie' had to be placated. After all, he was the future of the Party, and once was involved in a demonstration where Dr. King led the crowd.






"From Bernie’s perspective, dropping out of a race once you have no chance of winning is peculiar behavior that can only be explained by the work of a hidden hand. For most politicians, though, it is actually standard operating procedure. Only Sanders seems to think the normal thing to do once voters have made clear they don’t want to nominate you is to continue campaigning anyway."





"When things are not called by their right names, what is said cannot make sense. When what is said does not make sense, what is planned cannot succeed. When plans do not succeed, people become uneasy. When people are uneasy, punishments do not fit crimes. When punishments do not fit crimes, people cannot know where to put hand or foot."

[qwlauren35]

55. I am...

SO Not a Sir.

Not even remotely, imaginably a sir.

I am of the camp that Bernie doesn't "get" black people, and it doesn't surprise me that we don't vote for him... except some do. I remember a young black Bernie supporter who felt that Bernie was the only one with good ideas. I didn't want to get political at work so I kept my mouth shut.

There has been a significant percentage of Bernie supporters in the AA Group. We are, for the most part, a pragmatic people, and I would bet that most black Bernie supporters voted for Hillary.

Someone else in this thread said that everyone comes to the table. That's really all I want.

[The Magistrate]

60. My Apologies, Ma'am

And I will do my best to remember.

[jrthin]

64. Thank you.

[marble falls]

58. I find it hard to equate the trevails of the Bernie only's and the struggle of people of ...

color, who by and large are not supporting Bernie. Everyone's concerns need to be considered.

No doubt - your insight about this is much more informed than my own.

[Dream Girl]

101. Are you paying the race card? . This African American wants BS to bugger off

He LOST. Wat do you people even want? Pardon me while I put you on ignore.

[qwlauren35]

107. Just in case...

Just in case you're not ignoring me....

I'm not trying to play the race card, I'm just stating how I react when someone says that 25% is not significant.

I'm not "YOU PEOPLE". I'm not even a Bernie supporter. My husband is. I'm trying to understand, so that I can give him some hope that he is going to be heard in some way.

What Bernie supporters want, from what I can tell, is the toppling of corporate America. That's "the revolution". And they definitely are not going to get it. What I hear from my husband is anger and resentment at being the little guy, and having such a hard time catching a break when the 1% are in control of everything and hoarding all the money. What he wants is like a Robin Hood, take from the rich, give to the poor, the working class, the middle class, the 99%.

Maybe that answers your question.

[NBachers]

16. I'm resentful of what you fuckers did to Hillary & John Lewis; we aren't putting up with it now.

We see the wreckage of the multiple trump / republican atrocities and know that many of you voted for Sanders, with-held your vote, or voted for trump in 2016 to get revenge against the Democratic party and the Democratic nominee.

We see many of you threatening to do the same thing this time. The atrocities you've helped sponsor will be nothing compared to what is to come if trump is elected again.

Go do your hand-wringing someplace else.

[Cha]

25. Thank You!

[MFM008]

33. This!

[qwlauren35]

34. I voted for Hillary.

You're using a broad brush there. Not all Bernie delegates misbehaved at the convention, not all Bernie voters refused to vote for Hillary.

What percentage of Bernie voters stayed home? Are you sure that it was statistically relevant?

Yes, Bernie supporters saw Hillary as an "establishment politician". And knew that she would not dismantle the corporate stranglehold on American politics.

Me personally, I expected them to hold their noses and vote for Hillary. It crushed me that she lost. For me personally, it was as if racism had just won the election.

Please reconsider who you direct your anger to. Some did, some didn't. Be discerning.

[The Magistrate]

57. That Hardly Matters, Sir

Enough did to set the tone, and they went un-rebuked by their leader, St. Bernard of Burlington. That is the most important debit in this regard. 'Bernie' gave the disruptions countenance, he would not speak forcefully against them. He did not dare, for he depends on such people to give credence to his threats when engaged in blackmail, and they would desert him a flash, denouncing him as a sell-out, if he made the slightest attempt to rein them in.

"The troops are the mirror of their officer."





"From Bernie’s perspective, dropping out of a race once you have no chance of winning is peculiar behavior that can only be explained by the work of a hidden hand. For most politicians, though, it is actually standard operating procedure. Only Sanders seems to think the normal thing to do once voters have made clear they don’t want to nominate you is to continue campaigning anyway."





"When things are not called by their right names, what is said cannot make sense. When what is said does not make sense, what is planned cannot succeed. When plans do not succeed, people become uneasy. When people are uneasy, punishments do not fit crimes. When punishments do not fit crimes, people cannot know where to put hand or foot."

[kcr]

68. Blame Bernie for that broad brush

It's his fault.

[democrattotheend]

96. Me too

I supported Bernie in the 2016 primaries but wholeheartedly supported Hillary in the general. I not only voted for her but traveled to a swing state to volunteer. I know other Bernie supporters who did the same.

[Gothmog]

111. I was at the convention

The booing of Congressman Lewis and Cummings were planned stunts by vetted sanders delegates. The Clinton campaign was expecting up to 4 floor votes on the first day of the convention and had a good “whipping infrastructure” in place. I was warned about these planned stunts by my whip well in advance of these disgusting stunts. sanders was asked to stop these stunts and declined. sanders took no action to stop these stunts. While there were a number of decent Democrats among the sanders delegates, there were more disrupters. The boos were from a very large number if not a majority of sanders delegates.

As for the number of sanders supporters who helped to elect trump, there were sanders supporters who (i) voted for trump, (ii) voted for stein or third party candidate or (iii) stayed home

Link to tweet

[qwlauren35]

113. Thanks for the education.

I heard about what happened at the convention, but I certainly didn't know it was the majority. That's rather sickening. There are a lot of things about Bernie that I don't like, and you just reminded me of another one. I have a friend who is a delegate, and that might be why she can't stand Bernie.

My husband is a Bernie supporter who voted for Jill Stein. I was a Hillary supporter. We didn't talk politics. Here we are 4 years later, and I find myself wanting more information about whether Bernie will shape the platform. I wish the party was more on the left. But it isn't. I think that frustrates some people. But I have no answers.

[MyOwnPeace]

36. So there you have it, "Bernie" guys...........

You can go back in this thread and read the reasoned responses from "The Magistrate" - or you can read the "condensed version" from NBachers.

Either one will give you an idea as to how "The Bern" is not being a productive movement in ridding our country of the filth of IQ45.
It will take teamwork - and everybody has to be willing to be "on the team" for teamwork to actually work.

We've got to GET OUT THE VOTE - and that means EVERYBODY has to actually GO AND VOTE!!!!!

[betsuni]

43. +1

[Gothmog]

73. I was there and saw how sanders and his vetted delegates acted

Normally going to a national convention is a once in a life time experience. I have worked really hard inside the party on campaigns and voter protection issues for a very long time to earn this trip. Too bad that sanders and his vetted delegates ruined that experience and did their best to help trump. A candidate has absolute approval rights over their pledged delegates because these delegates can change their votes and these delegates represent the candidate and campaign. I helped vet Clinton delegates and I know that I was vetted. The Clinton campaign told us that we represent her and that our actions would reflect on her and her campaign.

In contrast, sanders sent one very weak text the Sunday night before the convention and then did little or nothing to control his delegates. It was nasty I was there when the sanders delegates booed Congressman John Lewis. I was warned about this stunt 30 minutes before it happened by the Clinton campaign whip. According to my whip, sanders was asked to stop this event and declined. There were some pissed off members of the Georgia delegation (Texas and Georgia shared a bus to the convention site).

I was at the Texas delegation breakfast when a group of sanders delegates marched in and demanded that we condemn Clinton and change our votes to sanders.

sanders spoke to the Texas delegation the next morning and his speech was again solely about himself. There was a mini-riot due to his delegates the prior morning and the only thing that sanders talked about was himself. sanders did nothing to deal with the fact that his delegates were out of control and did nothing to try to help Hillary Clinton win the general election.

Finally a group of sanders delegates yelled at my daughter and called her the c-Word because she would not try to get me to change my vote. Again sanders was asked to tell his delegates to behave during the convention and sanders refused

sanders has not apologized for this conduct and made no attempt to control his delegates.

[qwlauren35]

150. I have no words.

What an awful experience. I am so sorry that all of that happened.

I have read most of the posts here, and the clearest are the ones that explain that the majority of the party does not to move so far to the left. I'm not convinced of that. I personally think that a lot of Democrats have given up moving left in favor of beating Trump. But I can't prove it. I only believe that it will play out at the convention.

For Magistrate and "backroom deals", it was always my understanding that the Senate and House had discussions about bills, so that everyone could be heard. There were, admittedly, also backroom deals. So evidently, that's part of how our Congressional Democracy works.

The Democratic Party has so many faces and so many coalitions. The Progressive Caucus is one of them. When I think of Bernie supporters, I think "Progressive/Left/Liberal" arm of the party. I think I'm more liberal than center. Maybe it's that *I* want to be heard.

My cousins are Bernie supporters, and I'm not sure if they voted for Hillary. They have bought into the "Democrat=Republican" message. I want to hear their voices, so I guess I want to see if there are aspects of Bernie's message that can be included in the platform.

I personally do not want Bernie to be the nominee. Never have, never will. But I think he makes some good points, and I'm curious as to whether the voices of Bernie supporters can have an effect.

[The Magistrate]

161. I Appreciate Your Comments, Ma'am

I would point out that my reference to 'backroom deals' in exchanges with 'Don1' (if recollection serves as to who I was addressing), referred to his proposal that some deal be struck in which 'progressives' (ie 'Bernie') would be allocated delegates in proportion to what he conceived as their actual strength within the Party, and that this would be a sort of price for 'Bernie' ceasing his attempts at sabotage. This he proclaimed as 'DEMOCRACY', while to me it is obviously the very picture of a backroom deal, and one I cannot imagine there being any mechanism for executing with the delegate selection practices of the Democratic Party. It would be, if struck and followed through on, the antithesis of democratic practice.

Not that you have mis-characterized my view of how our Congress works, mind.

Regarding composition of the Party electorate, I do not agree with you, but this must necessarily be a question of judgement on which people of good will may differ. As a leftist, I consider in present circumstances the first duty of anyone on the left, from the most radical to the mildest liberal, is to beat back the christo-fascist right. Nothing towards the advance of policies left, progressive, and liberal people desire can be achieved unless this is done first. I have no patience whatever for anyone calling himself or herself a leftist who cannot see this.

There will never be reflected in the Democratic Party platform any idea or program based on the view that the two major parties are equal or effectively equivalent. People who hold to that view consign themselves to a powerless political existence. Their ideas will never be reflected, and frankly are sufficiently false to fact they ought not to be reflected. That is a view pumped out and plumped up by ivory tower radicals, and even if they live in grungy walk-ups with holes in the soles of their shoes they are in fact ivory tower types. 'Bernie' began as one of these sorts, and has learned over the years to perform as a poor imitation of a 'real' politician, at least if one does not look too close. He remains at heart a Marxist radical, and anyone familiar with the sort can readily discern its lineaments in his words and manner.

I regret that your cousins take such a view, and wish they would not. But people cannot be argued out of unreasonable beliefs, though sometimes they can be shocked out of them. People who hold that view voluntarily ostracize themselves from the political life of the country. Even were one to concede for purposes of argument that there might be some sense in which that view was 'right' it would not matter. To hold it is to agree not to participate in the political system as it exists. Multi-party parliamentary systems form their coalitions after an election; our two party 'first past the post' system requires coalitions be formed prior to elections. The Democratic Party is the only coalition that will include people of the left, and the only mass vehicle by which the worst excesses of christo-fascist reaction on the right can be opposed with any effect.

[Codeine]

128. Then clean up your own yard.

Put your dogs on leashes. Discipline your children. Etc.

[Hav]

17. A majority would love to move forward together

It's rather the Bernie or bust wing that doesn't want that.
But first, this is how democracy works. The winning party sets the agenda. You could just as well ask: There are so many Democrats, why doesn't Trump care about incorporating Dem policies?

Further, it's not that BS' ideas wouldn't be considered and they aren't particularly unique. It's wrong to suggest there wouldn't be an outreach. Biden tried it with the free public college/university plan. But BS was unable to give any credit for that because for him it only matters that he himself is the one implementing it.
But realistically, BS lost and he can only shape the Dem platform if he's a teamplayer and if he has an interest in finding common ground. That would mean putting his policy proposals above his personal ambitions. Warren apparently knows how to promote her ideas without trying to kneecap the presumptive Dem nominee.

[relayerbob]

18. Why do you think they matter more than the majority

And or of those who voted for others who have dropped out?

And Biden has already loudly and clearly asked for Bernie's supporters input.

The others' who have dropped out are getting their voices heard, including Warren, who still hasn't endorsed. Why can't Sanders just join the freaking team already? It's totally absurd

[yaesu]

21. Yep, its getting pretty sickening for sure and only helps tRump. nt

the sun,

[Cha]

22. Why Don't Biden Voters "Matter".. 'they're the ones who

came out and voted Overwhelmingly for Joe Biden on All the Super Tuesday and in South Carolina.

BS Lost and he Spent 4x the $$$$ to do it than Joe Biden did to WIN.

[LizBeth]

24. If Sanders is not nominee, they won't vote or vote Trump. Or, the will be a part of blue wave.

It is one or another and anything any one says or does wont change this. If right here and now does not get a person behind Biden, nothing will.

[LiberalFighter]

26. Did a review and Sanders' numbers are lower than that.

Not including Iowa, a caucus with no numbers to use, Sanders received 23.7% of the votes. 7,653,671 out of 24,650,588. The only 30% or higher were Democrats Abroad (36.7), Vermont (33.6), and Northern Marianas (38.5). In 2016, Sanders got all 16 delegates for Vermont.

As for the ideas. Biden has been including some of those ideas. Mostly from other candidates. Which are nearly the same.

[qwlauren35]

44. Thanks for the correction.

I thought he was doing better than 25%.

To be clear, I just feel sorry for Bernie supporters. They are so disappointed, so crushed, that the majority of the Democratic party doesn't want the revolution that they want.

I honestly don't understand how anyone could want "the revolution" more than they want to get rid of Trump. But for some of them, dismantling corporate power is the most important thing in the world. More important than climate change. For those people, I can see how Biden=Trump, since neither will dismantle corporations.

Personally, I consider it the most myopic drivel I've ever heard. But since my husband is a Bernie supporter (I'm not, I just like his charity picks) I am trying to understand.

[LiberalFighter]

86. Electing the President is not the sole thing that needs to happen.

And under most circumstances cannot do it on their own.

It is electing members to both the House and Senate that support those issues. They create the legislation and can make it happen even if the president does not initially support it.

Look at it like baseball's farm system. You elect officials at the township level, city and villages with mayors and city councils, county level, thru the state legislators.

And then it requires educating the public both at the school and community.

Part of the problem is messaging. Just like most everyone else, Sanders did not explain why and especially how it could be accomplished. And most people were not listening to him. I told my former Senator when he was running for re-election not to say "fix ObamaCare". It should be improve it. He didn't listen and lost. There were probably other reasons but if that was his mindset then he was trying to pander to the wrong people.

I got fed up with him during the 2016 primary and general. He and his campaign were complaining about the process when they knew about the process but they made it out as something it wasn't. And they complained about the DNC was favoring Hillary when they don't control how the voters vote. They try to imply that elections were rigged. As someone that is involved in assigning workers for the polling places I knew that was not the case. And I knew that the DNC did not control how primaries were conducted. All of that is under control of state law usually via the Secretary of State office. And the majority of states and SOS are Republican.

I also got fed up when I realized that someone that talks about helping those in need and hyping his civil rights protest he didn't stay in Chicago or Brooklyn. Both having strong presence of minorities. Vermont does not.

I also got fed up when he complained about the Democratic Establishment yet he wanted to hijack the party to run as one. And he runs as a Democrat in the Primary only to take out any opposition and then runs as an Independent in the General.

In all his time in Congress there has not been any meaningful legislation from him either.

They complain about these moderates as if it were a bad thing without considering that their current position would be considered ultra liberal back 20 or 30 years ago. Joe and most of the others that ran this year would be found in the middle of the pack within the left. Not in the fringe right of the party. I base this on govtrack that tracks it.

Then too many fail to understand despite what has happened under Trump the importance of who the President appoints to the different departments and agencies. Of importance to working people, the DOL, NRLB, and OSHA are three that are of major importance.

[brush]

90. Most people work for corporations, most small businesses are even incorporated.

They seriously need to ask themselves where they're going to work if corporations are dismantled? Dems have always raised the tax rate on corps and repugs lower it when they get in. Corporations should be highly regulated but if they are done away with, the jobs they provide go with them.

Totally dismantling corporations is absurd naivete. Sanders and his supporters claim to like the Nordic model, but those countries are not socialistic societies but capitalist democracies with highly regulated and taxed corporations whose taxes provide a robust safety net for citizens.

Do they even understand that? So many seem to demonize corporations without thinking through what happens to their jobs without them.

[qwlauren35]

151. I agree.

The idea of toppling corporations makes no sense to me.

But I guess that's why it's a "revolution". To me, it sounds like one big fat mess.

[gibraltar72]

29. How is this helpful?

We need one message. Stop Trump from killing us. Being uncooperative is not a good way to get cooperation. I supported Bernie last time until I no longer could. These are special times. Unity is called for right about NOW.

[MontanaMama]

30. Why should Bernie voters matter more

then the system we have in place to nominate a candidate?

[Skittles]

31. zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

[33taw]

32. They do, but right now a lot of people are thinking about other things right now.

[Happy Hoosier]

38. Imagine the shoe is on the other foot...

I have a really hard time imagining Sanders and his supporters being worried about winning over “centrists” by considering their policy positions.

[betsuni]

39. Some of his platform? When asked how his student debt policy was different from Warren's,

he said he didn't have the details in his pocket. Doesn't know how he'll break up the big banks. "I don't know how much my plans will cost." He doesn't know. The job is to know. That's government. And that's the problem here.

Warren comes out with a student debt plan and then Bernie has to be more progressive so he says his policy is cancelling all debt. He always does that. Nothing is thought out. Last time Bernie got most of what he wanted in the platform, the most progressive in history. Did it stop him and his supporters from claiming for the last four years that Democrats are corrupt and not progressive, centrist, establishment, status quo? No it didn't. What's the point.

[Eko]

42. I missed the part where you showed Bernie voters dont matter.

Thanks.

[qwlauren35]

49. I think it's a feeling I get from being here.

One poster called them a bunch of fuckers.

(You're supposed to get alerted for that, but I let it slide.)

Here, it seems that they are laughed at, ridiculed, abused and attacked. But never *heard*.

I'm going to vote blue in November. It is not like me to vote pure party, but as a response to Trump, it feels like a duty.

But I admit, having someone go after the big pharmaceutical companies, someone to go after the prison industrial complex, that would thrill me.

[Eko]

65. You have been here longer than I.

Surely you are aware of how the primaries are on DU. Shoot, last time we had such awesome titles as "Which is worse for America, Hillary or Trump?" or this gem of a reply "She is also fond of the practice of leaving brown kids toys to play with via the fun high tech pinatas known as cluster bombs." Not that any of that makes one type of supporter on here any worse than another I was just using it to show how the mud flies in both directions. Me, I decided to stay out of it this time for the most part and when I do comment its on the logic or fallacies someone is using in their argument and not the politics. Don't let what some posters on here ruin it for you and don't fall for the food fight that goes on . Glad you are voting blue no matter what, same with me.
Keep on keeponing!
Eko

[onecaliberal]

53. They do matter but majority rules.

[TreasonousBastard]

56. Some of his platform is being considered but that's not the problem ...

A major part of the problem is talking about Bernie Voters as if they are some new species.

BernieBots may be Bernie voters if they can find the polling place and get their asses over to it. Most seem to be more interested in blowing up the system than improving it.

Now, that's just the cult end of Bernie fans and I'm not really sure jut how big it is. However big it ends up being, I'm not sure there's any point going after them. Lost cause kind of says it all.

[qwlauren35]

152. OK

70% of Bernie supporters voted for Hillary. I think I want to try to increase that percentage this time, and I think if we can point to specifics in the platform that address Bernie supporters' issues, then we win.

But you're right - it may be a lost cause.

[Squinch]

62. Why do BS voters insist that they matter more than

Harris or Warren or Buttigieg or Bloomberg voters?

When those candidates became unviable and dropped out, those of us who supported them didn't whine about how everyone was being mean to us, we didn't threaten to make trouble if we didnt get prizes for participation, and we didn't loudly trash the winning candidate.

The rest of us chose not to act like spoiled children. We chose to follow the rules we agreed to play by.

[qwlauren35]

75. To be honest,

I think it's good to stay in touch with the reasons why you liked your candidate, and push for the inclusion of those things in the Democratic platform.

I think for me, it is the platform I think about more than the candidate. Biden is the candidate and I accept that. But moving to the left is important to many Bernie supporters and I think that's why they cling to their identity.

I always thought that candidates stayed in the race if they had the money. Bloomberg excepted.

And not for blackmail purposes, but simply to be heard.

[Squinch]

81. And moving to the left -as defined by BS - was rejected by the vast majority

of Democrats.

Why do you think your views outweigh theirs?

[sheshe2]

108. My candidate was Warren.

She went back immediately to the Senate to fight against trump and do the job we in MA elected her to do. She fought for the Coronavirus bill to give relief to those hit hardest due to their unemployment and financial needs. The people that BS says he stands for, yet never bothered to go back to his seat, to have his voice heard.

He is going to wait around for:

I think it's good to stay in touch with the reasons why you liked your candidate, and push for the inclusion of those things in the Democratic platform.

I think for me, it is the platform I think about more than the candidate. Biden is the candidate and I accept that. But moving to the left is important to many Bernie supporters and I think that's why they cling to their identity.

My Senator is already accomplishing that from her Senate seat.

There will always be those that do the heavy lifting and then there are others talking about others doing just that.

If I might add, Warren has accomplished far more with her short time in the Senate than he has in 30 years. Fact is prior to her election she founded the CFPB ( Consumer Finance Protection Bureau). You see, she actually took on the Big Banks And Won. Not Talking...Doing.

[nini]

66. Why don't Biden voters matter?

JFC.. Biden got more votes. MORE people want him than Sanders. Yet we have to step aside for a twice failed candidate

Screw that sideways.

[still_one]

67. When 15% of Sanders supporters say they will vote for trump if Biden is the nominee

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/elections/2020/03/29/bernie-sanders-supporters-vote-trump-over-biden-poll/2936124001/

[Gothmog]

69. 20% to 30% is far less than 80% to 70% in the real world

I have never taken sanders seriously as a candidate due to sanders complete and utter lack of legislative accomplishments. sanders has not been able to get his fellow Democratic members of Congress to back his agenda and that is not going to change. As I understand it, sanders is now relying on a magical voter revolution to convince republicans to be reasonable. sanders has no magical voter revolution or movement backing him up. sanders has a cap of around 30% of the Democratic voters and that does not constitute a movement or revolution

Link to tweet

For months — for years, really — the media have reported that the Democratic Party has gone far left. They have treated social media as a barometer of the party’s political attitudes and characterized center-left candidates as out of touch with their own party. They have done so despite the triumph of moderate Democratic House candidates in 2018; despite the failure of left-wing Democrats to flip a single House seat; despite the polls showing a substantial percentage of Democrats consider themselves moderate or somewhat liberal; and despite the failure of super-progressive presidential candidates to attract the most critical element in the Democratic Party (African Americans).

With this faulty premise, the media’s coverage has been at times wildly off-kilter. It was easy for anyone caring to look closely to see that Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-Vt.) did not “win” a single debate, because his ranting and raving merely reinforced the fervor of his own cult while turning off the rest of the party. The media have been obsessed with the “likability” of female candidates, never considering that Sanders’s angry and rude demeanor would turn off women, who make up more than half of the Democratic electorate. A simple question — “Who is he gaining by all this yelling?” — should have been front and center in the media’s coverage. His “movement” was assumed but never examined carefully.....

Sanders’s ceiling turned out to be real, because there are generally less than a third of voters in the Democratic Party willing to embrace wide-eyed socialism, venom-filled rhetoric and utter disregard for the demands of governing (e.g. compromise). Michael Moore does not speak for the Democratic Party any more than Rep. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez (D-N.Y.) speaks for House Democrats. (I have long maintained that the person who has the best read on the party as a whole is House Speaker Nancy Pelosi; get to her left, and you are in no-man’s land.)

The Democratic Party does not live on social media nor does it favor bomb-throwers. If anything, it is desperate to play it safe and find an antidote to President Trump — not an imitation. Voters want the madness, the cruelty, the dysfunction and the stupidity to stop. They have found their safe, reliable and decent candidate in Biden. En masse — in every geographic region and Democratic group — they are telling us that they want the primary to end and the effort to rout Trump to beg. The media might have taken Sanders’s “revolution” seriously, but it turns out that Democratic voters as a whole did not.

sanders will get some concessions but there are some really hard feelings form the 2016 convention about how sanders and his delegates acted.

[qwlauren35]

78. WOW!

Thank you for posting that.

It did not occur to me that the media may have latched on to the Bernie/Biden fight to prop readership, when in fact, his supporters are outliers. Because I live with a Bernie supporter, and I am a "Get Trump Out By Any Means Necessary" voter, I just missed reality.

That was a really good read.

[Gothmog]

169. The benefit of the Democrats denouncing Sanders's selfishness

I am tired of sanders and his supporters demanding that we bend a knee and anoint sanders as the nominee. It may be better to simply give up on the 15% who will not vote for any real Democrat and move on

Link to tweet

If you are in the search for silver linings, one benefit of Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-Vt.) pointlessly continuing his losing campaign is the freedom for Democrats to denounce him and his anti-party escapades. After years of humoring him, the vast majority of Democrats, from super-progressives to moderates, can now say out loud what they’ve said quietly: It has always been about Bernie. It’s not a movement, but rather a vanity project. ....

The problem, according to many Democrats, remains that 15 percent of Sanders supporters say in polling that they would vote for President Trump over Biden. This nugget actually makes the opposite argument: There is nothing that would satisfy some faction of the Sanders coalition that would rather blow up our democracy and reelect Trump. With people so irrational, the best response is to ignore them. They, like the MAGA-hat crowd, are unreachable and cannot be bargained with (e.g., more New Green Deal talk!). So do not try. No more outreach to Sanders, no more promised policy modifications, no more speaking slot at the convention. Enough

This would have some salutary effects.

First, it would make perfectly clear that Biden is not Sanders and not a crazy left-winger, as Trump would like to paint him in the campaign. Biden makes a sharp distinction between the “democratic socialist” crowd and his own brand of center-left politics. Since he cannot get the 15 percent of “Bernie or Bust” Democrats (or independents), he might as well make a strong play for moderate independents and disaffected Republicans. Cutting Sanders off effectively allows Biden to pitch to gettable swing voters, not waste time on unattainable Bernie Bros.

Second, freezing out Sanders will make governance in a Biden administration much easier and more cohesive. There will be no debt to be paid to Sanders, no advisers taken on to satisfy Sanders, and no weird and distracting policy initiatives to lead the new administration astray. This would be a center-left administration confident of its own governing agenda — and personally cohesive.

Third, it would free up constructive, smart progressive leaders such as Sen. Elizabeth Warren (D-Mass.) to lead that wing of the party. She has already begun that process, contributing bankruptcy and student loan forgiveness plans to the Biden campaign. With a practical, crafty progressive in the Senate (hopefully in the majority and able to lead on legislation), Biden would be able to broaden his appeal and cultivate allies in the Warren wing of the party.

In other words, shoving Sanders offstage opens up room for party builders and party reformers, putting aside unattainable proposals (e.g., Medicare-for-all) in favor of a smarter, more broadly acceptable agenda. (Biden would not need to fend off a Warren primary challenge, as Barack Obama did with Sanders in 2012.)

The party is never going to make the 15% to 25% of sanders supporters happy. 25% of sanders supporters either voted for trump, voted for a third party candidate like Stein or stayed home

Link to tweet

I am tired of trying to appease sanders supporters who are not going to be happy and there are real benefits in moving on and ignoring these voters.

[robbedvoter]

70. Because there's not enough of them? Majority rules.

It's a democracy thang. Look it up.

[qwlauren35]

74. It's my understanding

that in a true "Democracy" every voice is heard and considered.

As an African-American and part of the 14% minority, your comment is crushing. I will always be a minority. So are you saying my voice will never be heard?

We are in a country now where Dems and Repubs rarely work across the aisle, and majority matters, and minority is silenced. But at least in Congress, people are allowed to speak, to be heard. And sometimes, a big bill will have lots of little add ons, so that more voices have been "heard".

I believe in win-win whenever possible. Look at the bigger picture, how can everyone have as much of what they want as is possible.

Bernie is flawed in so many ways, that he is an unviable candidate to most Democrats. But there is a desire within the party to move to the left. I don't want that to be ignored.

[brush]

91. Support Biden and you will be in the majority of the Democratic Party.

The majority rules, always has.

[Squinch]

120. Every voice HAS been considered. BSs has been considered and REJECTED by the majority.

It has been rejected by the majority because there is absolutely no substance to it. So we move on to the more viable plans. That's how this works.

[Skid Rogue]

76. Biden will consider/adopt Bernie's issues where can.

He'll try to reach out. However, the voters didn't just reject Sanders as a person, they rejected his platform. Yes, 20-30% of the party agree with Sanders' platform, but on the other hand 70-80% do not agree with his platform. Biden has to honor the wishes of the folks that voted for him. If he had ran on Bernie's issues he would not have won the nomination.

[qwlauren35]

80. OK

That's good enough for me.

Thanks.

[mikewv]

77. These voters matter.

We need to unite all never trumpers. I am confident that Biden will do that.

[Ellen Forradalom]

85. But at the same time

This business of holding the Party hostage is bullshit. We've been enduring bad faith attacks since Nader and it has to stop.

[thucythucy]

87. I think Biden supporters

and people such as myself (originally for Warren, now for Biden) would be happy to do all that.

On the other hand, instead of constantly attacking Biden through his surrogates--who have accused Vice President Biden of being senile, deluded, absent, at death's door and--the latest--of being a rapist and a pedophile--why aren't Bernie and his surrogates and supporters trying to reach out to the 70s% of the party who haven't and don't support Bernie?

It's awfully difficult to reach out to someone who keeps spitting in your hand. Bernie's near constant attacks on Democratic voters who choose not to support him are hardly the actions of someone looking to mend fences.

Maybe you, as a Bernie supporter, can try explaining to us why Bernie and his campaign continue these attacks. And perhaps as a Bernie supporter you might even contact the campaign yourself, and in the interest of coming together to defeat the worst threat to our democracy since 1861 ask them, plead with them, beg them to stop these scurrilous, demeaning, misleading and divisive attacks.

Once the attacks stop, then we can come together to discuss issues. But first the attacks have to stop.

[qwlauren35]

153. Hmm...

I have the Bernie Sanders avatar because I wanted to post something in the Bernie group. I am really excited about his efforts to have supporters donate to COVID-19 charities and I wanted to be a part of that. So I gave $2 to his campaign so I would get on his list and be able to donate to the charities.


OF COURSE I will vote for Biden.

I recently asked my cousins, who are Bernie supporters, to explain why. They LOVE him. Everything that DU Biden supporters have pointed out would not dissuade them. However, I want to try. To win at least one of them.

Attacks on candidates are normal, and I don't think I could stop them. But what I can do, one-on-one, is point out that some of Biden's platform is intended to make a difference for working class Americans.

[thucythucy]

156. That sounds like a good plan

and I wish you the best of luck.

Attacks on candidates are indeed "normal" but I think some of the Bernie people--including most especially his top paid staffers--are taking it to new depths, worthy of the worst Republican tactics. They (or someone pretending to be part of the campaign) have started a "NeverBiden" hash tag and are posting truly despicable crap. Then there's the doctored ad that accuses Biden of wanting to cut Social Security.

None of this is in the best interests of the party or the country. And I think MineralMan makes a good point--the longer Bernie stays in, the more difficult it will be for his supporters to accept their loss and move on to the general.

Given how incredibly high the stakes are in this of all elections, it's difficult not to see this as a deliberate effort on the part of Bernie and his campaign to say, "If I can't be elected president as a Democrat, then nobody can." At the very least Bernie could make an effort to denounce the worst of the smears--assuming of course he actually thinks defeating Trump is top priority this year for all progressives.

Anyway, best of luck with your efforts.

One thing about Biden that I truly admire--his stellar work on the Violence Against Women Act. An important achievement for anyone who has survived or has a loved one who has survived domestic and sexual violence.

[qwlauren35]

158. Thanks.

[stopbush]

89. Nope.

[doc03]

94. He lost get over it nt

[Demsrule86]

97. It is not a huge percentage...and Sanders never did expand his base...less votes than last time

for Sanders and we barely lost...so I think we will be fine. Sanders is staying in...I want nothing to do with him...and since you still have his pic even though you admit he can't win and support his decision to stay in a primary he can not win thus risking the general, I am placing you on ignore until the end of the primary. I hope we can come together than...see you on the other side. I seriously can not look at the pic of Sanders anymore so angry with him.

[LakeArenal]

104. Right. I have trashed threads with Sanders

It is great.

But I still get some. One that use Bernie.
If I have too, I will add Bernie.

This subjectcomes up ten times a day. The same posters give them a zillion reasons why we don’t want to trust Bernie fans. They refuse to hear it. Just like Bernie.

[stopdiggin]

98. Sanders tried this strategy in 2016

largely to success. He was in fact able to exert a lot of influence on the platform and rules. This cycle that is much LESS likely to happen because 1) that card has already been played .. and people remember. (fool me once ..), and 2) the country, the electorate, and the party are in a radically different place, and with a radically different set of concerns and priorities than they were in 16.

If you thought the electorate was going for "safe and stable" in Feb-Mar .. just imagine where they're going to be after another rugged 2 or 3 months of C-19? So .. no .. I predict Sanders will get a fair hearing for his agenda and ideas .. but I suspect great deference and the collective wisdom that he represents "the future of the party" is probably fast fading into the distance.

Like any candidate, it is up to Senator Sanders to play his own hand .. but he doesn't hold the same hand that he did in 2016. (And many of us wish he would try a different hand for this cycle.) Equally, what Sanders supporters chose to do about this changing set of circumstances .. is also .. their hand to play.

[qwlauren35]

154. Good points.

Thank you for your words. They make sense to me.

[BGBD]

100. Biden has already adopted some of Bernie's policies

and made the a part of his platform. However, Biden won running on his policies and most of those are going to be what stays. He did win on those policies, afterall.

Also consider that Biden is going to be running on the most liberal platform of any major party nominee in history. That's more liberal than FDR, McGovern, Obama, everybody. Do you expect him to just become Bernie? What more does he need to do for you to support him against the antithesis of everything that you say you stand for?

[LakeArenal]

106. You just don't like the answer to your question

This subject comes up ten times a day. The same posters give them a zillion reasons why we don’t want to trust Bernie fans. They refuse to hear it. Just like Bernie

[COLGATE4]

114. Been there. Done it. No interest in repeating it. nt

[fallout87]

117. Because they have decided we are the enemy for some reason

I can't understand it, its really asinine.. but Ive been nothing but attacked here just for supporting someone other than the status quo...

[betsuni]

118. ...

What does "status quo" mean?

[Squinch]

119. Also, "For some reason." Have you heard the shit coming out against Biden from BS followers?

Spare me.

The reason, if you care, is that BS and his followers are helping Filthy Donnie. And we have all seen it before.

We are living in a maelstrom. We MUST defeat trump. We don't have time for BS's shit or his followers' demands for attention and participation prizes.

Get on the bus or get off, but quit standing in front of it.

[thucythucy]

133. Was Elizabeth Warren "status quo"?

Funny thing, no one on DU attacked me for supporting Warren.

The ONLY alleged Democrats I saw attacking her and her supporters were Bernie Bros. And the attacks were vicious.

I guess anyone but Bernie is status quo, huh?

[Politicub]

139. Why must Bernie voters need to be treated as if they're special?

Every democratic vote matters in November. If Bernie voters are so rarefied that they need special consideration, they can’t be depended on to do the right thing in November.

Since there is a contingent of only-Bernie voters, then there needs to be focus on widening our democratic coalition in order to blunt the 15 percent who say they will vote for Trump over Biden.

[Sunlei]

122. In my dreams I'd like to see Biden pick Sanders as VP, because he excluded a male then Hillary!

I don't think either of the current candidate's should have excluded a gender from their VP choices, but Hilary's a female & certainly as Biden mentioned he wanted, "someone ready to be president"

[Happy Hoosier]

125. Lotsa answers here and I don;t see many replies from the OP. Shit-stirring?

I'd just like my question answered. Would Bernie and the Bros be worried about Biden supporters if the shoe were on the other foot?

Not a chance, IMO.

This scolding is misguided.

[The Magistrate]

144. Actually, there Have Been Plenty, Sir

Look up in the thread's middle. The lady has made her situation and her intent clear enough, and she does not seem to be to doing anything but what she has said was her intent.

[Happy Hoosier]

146. I've read them. I see lots of Butwhatabout kinda stuff.

I just wanna know if the OP thinks the concernes of "centrists" would matter to Berners if the shoe were on the other foot. I personally doubt it.

[qwlauren35]

157. I completely agree with you.

Bernie wouldn't give centrists the time of day. He is slash and burn 100%. Revolution at all costs. For that of many reasons, I am glad that he cannot win.

Putting that aside, based on the things I have read here, the majority of the party does not want to move left.

However, and I think I said this elsewhere, I'm not 100% sure that that is true. I think the majority of the party wants to beat Trump, and knows that moving left won't do it. So there is a portion of the party that has let go of their desire to move left "for the greater good".

I would like to see a center + left party. It's a personal bias.

Sometimes it seems like beating Republicans is more important than moving the ideology. In fact, perhaps that is a big "duh". Perhaps you beat the Republicans first, then shift. I don't know.

Someone challenged me to read Biden's platform. I have read some of it. He is hitting the notes I want to hear. I feel okay with him.

But what I'd like to be able to do is win over Bernie supporters. I think I know where to start, but it involves some hard truths - that most Americans don't want Bernie's revolution. I feel as though if they know that they'll get pieces of what they want, they will vote for Biden.

That is my true aim. To give Bernie supporters - the reasonable ones - a reason to vote for Biden.

[Codeine]

126. When you made #bendtheknee your rallying cry

your well became sufficiently poisoned as to render it undrinkable.

[beachbumbob]

127. we tried being nice in 2016 and what did that get us???

if sander's supporters have concerns about their country, they be sure a trump would NEVER BE ELECTED or reelected

[lees1975]

129. His Platform WILL be considered

In 2016, Sanders' delegates had almost carte blanche say over the Democratic platform.

I can't imagine where you and other Sanders' supporters get the idea that's not going to happen. That sounds like trouble being stirred up from outside, either Trump sources, unreliable fake extremist right wing media (which you shouldn't be watching anyway) or Russian infiltration.

Biden was Obama's VP. Absolutely guaranteed, he's going to give Bernie himself as large a role in the Democratic party as he wants to have. Pay attention to what Bernie says and does and you'll see that he know this is going to come about.

From my perspective, Bernie needs to be put in charge of health care reform.

Unless you prefer four more years of the orange headed buffoon to Joe Biden, what you need to do is stop whining and wailing and stop trying to undermine the other Democrat in the race and direct that energy and resource against Trump. Because if we get four more years of him, nothing you are interested in will ever be considered again and your money will be in the pockets of billionaires under a locked down dictatorship.

[Me.]

132. In Charge Of Anything?

He doesn't even vote when it counts.

[qwlauren35]

159. Hmmm....

Didn't mean to come across as whining and wailing.

I will vote for Biden, I will donate to Biden's campaign, I will encourage people to vote and will tell them why I support Biden.

But for the people in my life who are Bernie supporters, I want to be able to offer them something.

Their candidate has essentially lost. But his vision may still have merit. I want to be able to show them how Biden has adopted a lot of Bernie's 2016 platform into his own platform. Right now, they are too blind to see it. But when the General comes around, I want to have those eggs in my basket.

[janterry]

130. they matter, just not on this board

(we love him up here in Vermont

[Me.]

131. Just Stop Already

There is no huge percentage, there never wasw. If there was you wouldn't be parroting this nonsense.

[NNadir]

134. They matter a great deal to themselves. Is this not enough?

I don't think that any sane person has to waste time trying to convince people to do the right thing, which is to defeat Trump.

Why should anyone be required to beg anyone to do the right thing?

Either you do the right thing because its right, or you do the wrong thing and claim that if the wrong outcome prevails, it's because nobody believed that your wrong thing was right.

Now, if our country is destroyed by failure to defeat the corrupt racist incompetent pig in the White House, I'm sure that Sanders voters will run around gloating about it. Since they are disinterested in any views other than their own, like cultists of all types, MAGA cultists, religious cultists, what have you, they will claim that the result comes from rejection of them.

This is just the application of a dogmatic sense of rectitude that is disinterested in the real views of the rest of humanity.

[honest.abe]

136. I think a large percentage of Sanders supporters are not really dedicated Democrats.

They are hard core Independents and are probably not going to vote for Biden no matter what. They are more interested in slash and burning the current political system than trying to improve it from within. Not sure we should coddle to that type of voter or even if we do will it actually help bring them in.

[MineralMan]

137. Why would that need to be said at all?

The nominee is selected by the voters in their primaries or caucuses. Once we have a nominee, Democrats should vote for that nominee, so we don't get four more years of Donald Trump.

Why does anything need to be said about that to Sanders supporters? What is it about voting for the Democratic nominee that is hard to figure out?

As for Senator Sanders dropping out, once it's clear that he has no path to the nomination, we might as well get on with the general election campaigning, it seems to me. He will do as he pleases, of course, but that will not change the eventual outcome.

Sanders supporter are just another group of Democrats, aren't they?

[qwlauren35]

160. To be clear.

I know Bernie lost, and I have no interest in him being the nominee.

Maybe I'm wrong, but I thought part of the convention was determining the platform. That's what I care about.

In talking to some Bernie "fanatics", Bernie is god. But for other Bernie "supporters", Bernie has ideas that are worth looking at.

So please, don't think that I want to see Bernie nominated. I don't. I want his ideas considered.

Someone responded to me that 25% of Democratic voters want Bernie/left, and 75% want Biden/moderate. And we can't ignore that 75% in order to hear the 25%. Very good point. So then, I think - collaborate. Can we hear both sides, can we work both sides into the platform. More center than left, but some left.

We shall see.

[Politicub]

138. It seems like Bernie or bust voters have a martyr complex

They would rather die for the cause (whatever that is) than vote for the democratic candidate.

Trouble is, if Trump wins, everyone loses.

[Kahuna]

142. No one should need to be asked or begged to do their civic duty. nt

[scrabblequeen40]

148. it depends

on whether you share the goal of taking Trump from office.

your comment: Instead of constantly saying "Bernie, drop out!" Why not say "Bernie supporters we hear you, we want you in the party. A lot of Bernie's ideas are good ideas. Let's work together to move forward, and see how many of his ideas we can pull into our platform."

That's been done forever to no effect.

[nolawarlock]

149. At this point? Two words. Tara Reade. n/t

[Proud Liberal Dem]

155. Didn't Bernie get a LOT of say in the 2016 Democratic Party Platform?

Including rule changes to this year's primary process? Who's to say he and his supporters won't be able to add to this year's platform? That does not mean, however, that they get everything they want, however. If Bernie supporters want to have a greater say and influence in the party, they might want to consider actually joining the party and working from the inside to help influence it. Helping to elect more progressive Democrats would help. Everything but fighting the party would be useful.

[Gothmog]

166. How 'Never Bernie' Voters Threw In With Biden and Changed the Primary

sanders was appealing only to 30% of the party and after South Carolina the rest of the party moved to Joe Biden to stop sanders.

Link to tweet

Rarely has political momentum flipped as quickly as it did in the first half of March, as Mr. Sanders lost serious ground to Mr. Biden before the coronavirus slowed their race. There are well-known reasons for the shift: Moderate candidates like Mr. Buttigieg and Senator Amy Klobuchar of Minnesota rallied around Mr. Biden. He enjoyed demographic advantages, particularly with black voters. And turnout among young voters and liberal nonvoters did not surge, failing to reshape the electorate as Mr. Sanders had hoped.

But beyond ideology, race and turnout, a chief reason for Mr. Biden’s success has little to do with his candidacy. He became a vehicle for Democrats like Ms. King who were supporting other candidates but found the prospect of Mr. Sanders and his calls for political revolution so distasteful that they put aside misgivings about Mr. Biden and backed him instead.

In phone interviews, dozens of Democrats, mostly aged 50 and over, who live in key March primary states like Massachusetts, Virginia, Michigan and Florida, said that Mr. Biden’s appeal went beyond his case for beating President Trump. It was his chances of overtaking Mr. Sanders, the only candidate in the vast Democratic field they found objectionable for reasons personal and political.....

These voters’ willingness to unite against Mr. Sanders helped Democratic Party leaders stave off his insurgent campaign and has made Mr. Biden the all-but-certain Democratic nominee. The convergence behind Mr. Biden also highlights a critical difference between this year’s primary and what happened to the Republican Party in 2016. Four years ago, establishment Republicans were openly skeptical of Mr. Trump after his victories in early primary states, but a fractured field and split primary vote allowed him to amass an insurmountable delegate lead, reshaping the party in the process.....

Ahead of Mr. Sanders’s presidential run in 2020, his campaign did not concern itself with smoothing tensions among voters who supported Mrs. Clinton in 2016. He did not seek the endorsements of many party leaders, who were always unlikely to back him, but could have been swayed from being openly antagonistic to ambivalent.

As a result, after a strong finish in Iowa and wins in New Hampshire and Nevada, Mr. Sanders did not benefit from an assumed truth of presidential campaigns: that early-state victories help bring in voters from other factions. Instead, people like Lori Boerner of McLean, Va., said Mr. Sanders’s performance sent them searching for a candidate who could stop his rise, and after the South Carolina primary, they landed on Mr. Biden.

The vast bulk of the party does not like sanders which is why Joe Biden is going to the nominee

[The Magistrate]

167. Quite True, Sir

Sanders grossly underestimates the cold hatred rank and file Democrats have for him....





"From Bernie’s perspective, dropping out of a race once you have no chance of winning is peculiar behavior that can only be explained by the work of a hidden hand. For most politicians, though, it is actually standard operating procedure. Only Sanders seems to think the normal thing to do once voters have made clear they don’t want to nominate you is to continue campaigning anyway."





"When things are not called by their right names, what is said cannot make sense. When what is said does not make sense, what is planned cannot succeed. When plans do not succeed, people become uneasy. When people are uneasy, punishments do not fit crimes. When punishments do not fit crimes, people cannot know where to put hand or foot."

[GeorgiaPeanut]

175. In the HUGE blind spot that Sanders has

He never understood that Hillary won the nomination with about 4 million more votes.

I don't know of any Hillary supporter like me who would even consider Bernie for the job of a municipal animal control officer let alone POTUS.

Sanders had 4 years to build a bridge to the Hillary supporters - he chose not to do that to his detriment and political demise.

History will remember Sanders as the person most responsible for Trump getting elected followed by Mr. Putin. No a great legacy to have. If Sanders wants to save his legacy, he should drop out and endorse Biden.

[Gothmog]

171. A large number of real democrats have very good memories

These real Democrats will not forget or forgive

Link to tweet

[ehrnst]

173. That's not something Sanders supporters were saying about supporters of any other candidate

when Sanders was ahead.

They were calling for all the candiates to simply drop out and support Sanders.

So there's that.

[GeorgiaPeanut]

174. For every lost Bernie voter there are 5 to 10 near the center

who will overwhelmingly vote for Biden.

Bernie is making the ultra left irrelevant very fast.

[snowybirdie]

176. At this point

You should be a Democratic voter.