Democratic Primaries
Related: About this forumAbout that Bernie-Russia video: It has been public for years
A few thoughts about a video of Bernie Sanders praising a few aspects of the Soviet Union. Namely, that the transportation was good and he liked the puppeteers and the cultural programs (including the puppeteer) for youth are positive.
Does that sound alarming to you?
I just saw not one, but several instances of that video dated 2016 or earlier. Which means the Hillary camp was well aware of it and decided it was not worth using as a political weapon.
Now that the right wing is nervous about Bernie possibly being the nominee, this video begins to be circulated much more widely. They're experts in turning a Nothingburger into a fake scandal. The right wing could have used it against Bernie Sanders but they didn't want to help Hillary in 2016.
This is not some just-unearthed footage.
With Bernie raising 10 million dollars in less than a week, we need to leave open the possibility that Bernie will be our only chance to keep Trump from packing the SCOTUS with 9 young Kavanaughs.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Mjolnir1956
(12 posts)Bernie might be the nominee but then again he might not be the nominee. We're a year out from Iowa and that's a lifetime in the political world. I see Kamela Harris setting the table to use the earlier California and South Carolina primaries to establish a numerical and emotional advantage that none of the other candidates can overcome. Bernie generated the same fevered online support and fund raising last time and we all know how that turned out If Bernie were to be the nominee I'd walk barefoot over broken glass to vote for him but I don't see him being the nominee at this point in time .
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
TomCADem
(17,682 posts)While Bernie has been progressive domestically, Bernie has been oddly pro-Russian oligarch. He famously was one of the very few no votes on the Magnitsky Act. Then in the wake of the 2016 election, he was a rare no vote against sanctions against Russian election meddling for the 2017 sanctions bill. Finally, last month, in a close senate vote to block Trump from lifting sanctions on a Russian oligarch, Bernie ditched the vote.
Bernie just has an inexplicable blind spot when it comes to Russia where it counts. In his voting record. This does not even address the fact that he has been hostile to NATO and even advocated transforming into an anti-terrorist coalition with Russia as a member, rather than a bulwark Against Russian expansion.
So, who cares about a video? People are ignoring Bernies actual record. Compared to other candidates Bernie is getting a huge free pass on this, particularly given how it affected his campaign in 2016.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
NurseJackie
(42,862 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Response to TomCADem (Reply #2)
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tinrobot
(11,419 posts)I would love to hear a valid reason.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Response to tinrobot (Reply #14)
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tinrobot
(11,419 posts)I was honestly curious.
Now I assume you're either stonewalling or a troll. Funny how perceptions can change.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Response to tinrobot (Reply #18)
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tinrobot
(11,419 posts)You could have answered the question... or not posted at all if you had nothing to contribute.
Instead, you went out of your way to tell me to "look it up". That's pointless and a waste of bandwidth.
Not cool.
Good day.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Maru Kitteh
(28,895 posts)People will be more inclined to assign a moment's consideration to them.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Response to Maru Kitteh (Reply #46)
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still_one
(95,502 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Cha
(304,047 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Hortensis
(58,785 posts)a surprising number of similarities with Trump's actions toward NATO and Russia, as do those of a number of other Republicans.
All beneficiaries of Russia's interventions in our elections and donations to American politicians should be asked a whole lot of questions by the electorate, by their colleagues in government, by investigative journalists, and by formal FBI and DoJ investigations where all questions have not been adequately set to rest.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
MrsCoffee
(5,817 posts)He is going to get hammered about this on the campaign trail. His explanation was bullshit. His skipping a vote was even more bullshit.
Bernie has a Russia problem. No amount of cognitive dissonance is going to make it go away overnight.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Response to MrsCoffee (Reply #21)
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MrsCoffee
(5,817 posts)Bookmarking.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
BannonsLiver
(17,629 posts)Last edited Wed Feb 27, 2019, 02:02 PM - Edit history (1)
Especially against the backdrop of the Mueller findings. It will ALL be on the table.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
TomCADem
(17,682 posts)After all, Bernie appears to be siding with Trump when Russian sanctions have come up in 2017 and last month? Trumps supporters also insist that Trump had valid reasons.
Again, it is one thing to vote with Russia in isolation, but to repeatedly do so over a long period of time coupled with a hostility to NATO, which is similar to Trumps?
I looked it up as you suggest, and Bernies statements on such issues sound similar to Trumps. So, do you agree with Trump on these issues or do you think that Bernie has different reasons for his pro-Russia, anti-NATO statements and votes.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Response to TomCADem (Reply #31)
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George II
(67,782 posts)... and 98 Senators for the other?
Do you know why he did that?
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
George II
(67,782 posts)the Magnitsky Act AND the Russia sanctions. Can you explain why?
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Eliot Rosewater
(32,374 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Response to TomCADem (Reply #2)
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TomCADem
(17,682 posts)The text of that bill was incorporated into S2943 and Bernie was one of 7 no votes on the bill.
2. Sanders voted YES 2015 Magnitsky Act because it was MORE robust. Note: this was an unanimous vote.
Again, one vote in isolation is excusable, but to keep on coming on the side of Russian oligarchs?
To put this into context, even Dana Rohrbacher voted yes on the S2943 even though he loudly complained that Russia was being unfairly targeted. Yet, we condemn Dana as a Russian sell out, but Bernie gets a free pass.
As you point out, facts and votes matter.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Response to TomCADem (Reply #48)
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TomCADem
(17,682 posts)...on all of the other items you listed?
Let me ask you this, doesnt that concern you at all? If Bernie just had one isolated vote, this would not be an issue. Under your analysis, Dana Rohrbacher could be painted as being unfairly targeted so long as someone else voted with him.
Is that your position? I just want to make sure I am not misinterpreting your argument, which can just as easily apply to Rohrbacher.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Response to TomCADem (Reply #56)
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BannonsLiver This message was self-deleted by its author.
ehrnst
(32,640 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Response to TomCADem (Reply #2)
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ehrnst
(32,640 posts)As you said, his previous opponent decided not to go negative on him, and he wasn't vetted very thoroughly by the Democratic Party.
What vetting the GOP has done remains to be seen.
Ambition to the Oval Office comes with a very harsh spotlight.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
still_one
(95,502 posts)the South the prospects for 2020 in the WH are not very good.
and while it is still very early, the latest 2020 poll in South Carolina, at least at this point in time, that Sanders, who is a known, still does not appear to have much traction there.
"Fifty-five percent of the likely S.C. Democratic primary voters surveyed were African-Americans, who account for more than 60 percent of the states Democratic voters.
When we only asked about already declared candidates (not including Sanders who hadnt yet declared), black voters overwhelmingly supported Booker (38 percent) and Harris (37 percent), said polling firm chief executive Mike Greenfield. But with Biden, Sanders (and) Beto in the race, Biden has a clear lead among black voters, with 43 percent, and Booker, Harris and Sanders all at 13 percent.
Read more here: https://www.thestate.com/news/politics-government/article226541900.html#storylink=cpy
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
pnwmom
(109,425 posts)to be the one running against Trump? They clearly thought he'd be the weaker candidate. And they could easily have more to put out from that trip. We won't find out unless he's our nominee.
The rightwing isn't nervous about him being the nominee. They'd welcome it. They think they'd have a win against the Democratic Socialist who honeymooned in the Soviet Socialist Republic and came back singing its praises.
Three years latter, the USSR that he'd praised collapsed.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Response to pnwmom (Reply #6)
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Trenzalore
(2,490 posts)They had a bad relationship when she was SOS. Trump being so amenable to doing Putin's bidding was probably a happy surprise for the Kremlin.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
tinrobot
(11,419 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
George II
(67,782 posts)...I see you told someone else here who asked a question to "look it up".
You also didn't read the entire post to which you responded. It's there.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Response to George II (Reply #25)
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still_one
(95,502 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
pnwmom
(109,425 posts)whoever they think will have the hardest time against them and Trump.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
ehrnst
(32,640 posts)Wanting someone to win a party primary and wanting someone to win the GE can mean wanting two different people to win those elections.
If the GOP and Russia could choose a Democratic candidate, do you think they would would want the strongest candidate to win the Democratic primary?
Does that make things clearer?
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
brooklynite
(96,882 posts)Republicans will be under no such obligation.
You are a political activist. The average voter has never see this.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
LongtimeAZDem
(4,515 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
brooklynite
(96,882 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
blue cat
(2,437 posts)Concerns me.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Trenzalore
(2,490 posts)It wasn't close. There was a hard calculation made that going all out attack on Senator Sanders would lead to his supporters turning on Hillary in the general election.
If it was a closer election it would have been a lot nastier.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
MistakenLamb
(770 posts)The attack ads write themselves, intercut Sanders praising Ortega and the Soviet Union self proclaiming himself a socialist with videos of people of Venezuela rushing to Columbia for food. There is a reason why Pence has been spending time in South America. Trump has a path to win enough Latino voters with Anti Socialism and Anti Abortion to win again in 2020 than people realize.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
still_one
(95,502 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Honeycombe8
(37,648 posts)Just the opposite. They'd love to run against someone that they will say is a Socialist. That makes the choice clear, in their opinion. American values, or socialism (aka communism...to them).
It's not a correct argument, but that's how it will be played. And many voters will agree, IMO.
Those on the far left and far right will vote for either the Democratic or Republican candidate. No problemo. But all those millions in the middle, moderates on both sides, as well as Independents, will decide who will win.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
WeekiWater
(3,259 posts)Give me a break. Its offensive.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
DemocratSinceBirth
(100,006 posts)The problem is these attacks are harder to make in a Democratic primary but they will be debilitating in a general election. As to myself I never found much to admire in totalitarianism and authoritarianism, whether they emanate from the left or right.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
still_one
(95,502 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
still_one
(95,502 posts)progressives who supported Sanders, but refused to vote for the Democratic nominee by either voting third party or not voting, and it didn't take many to achieve that either.
In those critical swing states, Hillary lost by less than 1%, and Jill Stein received 1% of the votes in those states.
Every Democrat running for Senate in those critical swing states lost to the incumbent, establishment, republican, and those Democrats were progressive by any standard.
Now suddenly some who seem to be leaning toward Sanders are so concerned about the Supreme Court? Where were they in 2016 when it DID MATTER. In fact I remember the discussions here at the time how some were saying the Supreme Court didn't matter.
Gee, what a difference a day makes
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Amimnoch
(4,558 posts)Any Democratic Party candidate BUT BS.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
LakeArenal
(29,677 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
LovingA2andMI
(7,006 posts)Right Here. Thanks for the information.....
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Garrett78
(10,721 posts)I'm not saying anything one way or another about the video, but of course Clinton didn't use it. And the media was far too preoccupied with fomenting Hillary Hate.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
ehrnst
(32,640 posts)as the Democratic candidate.
I'm sure that there was oppo in the waiting to drop on Sanders by Russia and the GOP had he won the Democratic primary. Waiting until then would have inflicted the most damage to the candidate's chances, and the most support for Trump.
Bernie got a pass on vetting last time. I don't think that will happen in 2020.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
lunamagica
(9,967 posts)Hillary treated him with kid gloves.
This time he will not get a pass on that and many other things. He'll have to answer some tough questions.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Skidmore
(37,364 posts)He needs to be fully vetted.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Blue_Tires
(55,445 posts)Just sayin'
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Yosemito
(648 posts)Was it in this life?
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Blue_Tires
(55,445 posts)Does that sound alarming to you?
I just saw not one, but several instances of that video dated 2016 or earlier. Which means the Hillary camp was well aware of it and decided it was not worth using as a political weapon.
Now that the right wing is nervous about Bernie possibly being the nominee, this video begins to be circulated much more widely. They're experts in turning a Nothingburger into a fake scandal. The right wing could have used it against Bernie Sanders but they didn't want to help Hillary in 2016.
This is not some just-unearthed footage.
With Bernie raising 10 million dollars in less than a week, we need to leave open the possibility that Bernie will be our only chance to keep Trump from packing the SCOTUS with 9 young Kavanaughs.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Yosemito
(648 posts)You even highlighted my statement that it is a possibility that he will be our only chance. But you ignored your own bold letters.
Possible is even less than likely come out by the way.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Blue_Tires
(55,445 posts)No way in hell is a non-party member getting the nomination
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden