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Joe BidenCongratulations to our presumptive Democratic nominee, Joe Biden!

Wed Apr 17, 2019, 12:48 PM

 

For those who are mad at Berners, still.

It's important to study the NPR data from 2017. Here's an important paragraph about the 1 in 10 Bernie supporters who crossed over to Trump in the GE:

Party seems to have had something to do with it — Sanders-Trump voters were much less likely than Sanders-Clinton or Sanders-third party voters to have been Democrats. Likewise, approval of President Barack Obama appears to be related — Sanders-Trump voters approved of Obama much less than other Sanders primary voters.


Ergo: Those who crossed over weren't previously Dems.

And they were not supporters of Obama.

There was a racial bias common in these crossovers:

"And then there is race. Nearly half of Sanders-Trump voters disagree with the idea that "white people have advantages."

And so it is counter-productive to think of holding all Bernie supporters responsible for Clinton's electoral college loss.

It's not possible to have party unity in the GE with people who obviously have had no true affiliation with the party and do not share core values.


[link:https://www.npr.org/2017/08/24/545812242/1-in-10-sanders-primary-voters-ended-up-supporting-trump-survey-finds?fbclid=IwAR1o-cOa62ZE_adyvGdk7Jmz-XW6OQzY0Tgef517gh_0UqxRpoSKSNzgfMM|

Let's hope to learn from this NPR data.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Arrow 114 replies Author Time Post
Reply For those who are mad at Berners, still. (Original post)
Grasswire2 Apr 2019 OP
Fresh_Start Apr 2019 #1
Skidmore Apr 2019 #3
Autumn Apr 2019 #4
LongtimeAZDem Apr 2019 #5
Autumn Apr 2019 #9
progressoid Apr 2019 #53
Autumn Apr 2019 #65
InAbLuEsTaTe Apr 2019 #101
TheFarseer Apr 2019 #12
workinclasszero Apr 2019 #57
InAbLuEsTaTe Apr 2019 #102
LisaM Apr 2019 #30
pangaia Apr 2019 #40
LisaM Apr 2019 #44
vsrazdem Apr 2019 #52
LisaM Apr 2019 #56
Autumn Apr 2019 #62
LisaM Apr 2019 #75
Autumn Apr 2019 #82
LisaM Apr 2019 #95
vsrazdem Apr 2019 #76
radical noodle Apr 2019 #107
True Blue American Apr 2019 #78
vsrazdem Apr 2019 #80
True Blue American Apr 2019 #83
vsrazdem Apr 2019 #84
True Blue American Apr 2019 #86
vsrazdem Apr 2019 #88
Autumn Apr 2019 #61
bahrbearian Apr 2019 #49
dogman Apr 2019 #8
Fresh_Start Apr 2019 #16
dogman Apr 2019 #25
Fresh_Start Apr 2019 #37
dogman Apr 2019 #45
question everything Apr 2019 #15
dogman Apr 2019 #28
MrsCoffee Apr 2019 #39
KitSileya Apr 2019 #46
MrsCoffee Apr 2019 #47
bahrbearian Apr 2019 #50
MrsCoffee Apr 2019 #51
sacto95834 Apr 2019 #66
MrsCoffee Apr 2019 #73
artislife Apr 2019 #90
MrsCoffee Apr 2019 #94
shanny Apr 2019 #19
Fresh_Start Apr 2019 #24
dogman Apr 2019 #29
Fresh_Start Apr 2019 #36
dogman Apr 2019 #43
sacto95834 Apr 2019 #67
True Blue American Apr 2019 #85
BlueWI Apr 2019 #96
Celerity Apr 2019 #104
dogman Apr 2019 #97
shanny Apr 2019 #38
Fresh_Start Apr 2019 #42
shanny Apr 2019 #68
ehrnst Apr 2019 #112
mountain grammy Apr 2019 #113
Gothmog Apr 2019 #2
Autumn Apr 2019 #7
Gothmog Apr 2019 #10
Autumn Apr 2019 #13
Gothmog Apr 2019 #21
Autumn Apr 2019 #23
mountain grammy Apr 2019 #114
Gothmog Apr 2019 #100
Autumn Apr 2019 #105
KitSileya Apr 2019 #34
question everything Apr 2019 #41
Gothmog Apr 2019 #74
LineLineLineReply .
WeekiWater Apr 2019 #11
Autumn Apr 2019 #18
WeekiWater Apr 2019 #32
paulkienitz Apr 2019 #6
dogman Apr 2019 #17
Fresh_Start Apr 2019 #22
dogman Apr 2019 #31
Thekaspervote Apr 2019 #69
artislife Apr 2019 #91
Post removed Apr 2019 #27
dogman Apr 2019 #35
Post removed Apr 2019 #48
loyalsister Apr 2019 #81
artislife Apr 2019 #92
Hoyt Apr 2019 #87
jcgoldie Apr 2019 #103
qazplm135 Apr 2019 #14
Hortensis Apr 2019 #20
Thekaspervote Apr 2019 #71
Hortensis Apr 2019 #77
ismnotwasm Apr 2019 #26
KitSileya Apr 2019 #33
Blue_Tires Apr 2019 #54
Post removed Apr 2019 #55
seaglass Apr 2019 #58
TruckFump Apr 2019 #59
MH1 Apr 2019 #60
Gothmog Apr 2019 #89
namahage Apr 2019 #106
MH1 Apr 2019 #110
leftofcool Apr 2019 #63
BlueFlorida Apr 2019 #64
samnsara Apr 2019 #70
Grasswire2 Apr 2019 #72
Gothmog Apr 2019 #79
brooklynite Apr 2019 #93
romainetarra Apr 2019 #98
roody Apr 2019 #99
Blue_Tires Apr 2019 #108
radical noodle Apr 2019 #109
KitSileya Apr 2019 #111

Response to Grasswire2 (Original post)

Wed Apr 17, 2019, 12:51 PM

1. Unfortunately the same argument can be made about Bernie

 

have had no true affiliation with the party and do not share core values

while Bernie shares some values with the Democratic party, he does not share all important values...
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to Fresh_Start (Reply #1)

Wed Apr 17, 2019, 12:54 PM

3. k&r nt

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to Fresh_Start (Reply #1)

Wed Apr 17, 2019, 12:54 PM

4. Which important values does he not share with the Democratic party?

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to Autumn (Reply #4)

Wed Apr 17, 2019, 12:56 PM

5. Not electing Republicans?

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to LongtimeAZDem (Reply #5)

Wed Apr 17, 2019, 12:58 PM

9. When did he ever elect a Republican OR campaign for one?

 

Joseph R. Biden Jr. swept into Benton Harbor, Mich., three weeks before the November elections, in the midst of his quest to reclaim the Midwest for Democrats. He took the stage at Lake Michigan College as Representative Fred Upton, a long-serving Republican from the area, faced the toughest race of his career.

But Mr. Biden was not there to denounce Mr. Upton. Instead, he was collecting $200,000 from the Economic Club of Southwestern Michigan to address a Republican-leaning audience, according to a speaking contract obtained by The New York Times and interviews with organizers. The group, a business-minded civic organization, is supported in part by an Upton family foundation.

Mr. Biden stunned Democrats and elated Republicans by praising Mr. Upton while the lawmaker looked on from the audience. Alluding to Mr. Upton’s support for a landmark medical-research law, Mr. Biden called him a champion in the fight against cancer — and “one of the finest guys I’ve ever worked with.”

Mr. Biden’s remarks, coming amid a wide-ranging discourse on American politics, quickly appeared in Republican advertising. The local Democratic Party pleaded with Mr. Biden to repair what it saw as a damaging error, to no avail. On Nov. 6, Mr. Upton defeated his Democratic challenger by four and a half percentage points.

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/01/23/us/politics/biden-speech-fred-upton.html


If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to Autumn (Reply #9)

Wed Apr 17, 2019, 02:11 PM

53. We could have had this guy in congress:

 

https://www.mattlongjohnforcongress.com/

Biden fucked up.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to progressoid (Reply #53)

Wed Apr 17, 2019, 02:54 PM

65. Yeah that kind of sucked. I can see Biden might have felt he owed him something. But the

 

rest of us Dems owed Upton nothing. And a Dem should never campaign for a republican.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to Autumn (Reply #65)

Wed Apr 17, 2019, 10:46 PM

101. BINGO!!!

 


Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to LongtimeAZDem (Reply #5)

Wed Apr 17, 2019, 01:03 PM

12. you're completely dodging the question

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to LongtimeAZDem (Reply #5)

Wed Apr 17, 2019, 02:20 PM

57. Of Course Joe Biden Supported a Republican in a $200K Speech

 

Biden is a different kind of Democrat: the kind who lavishly praises Republicans who are fighting for reelection.

By Harry Cheadle Jan 23 2019, 3:27pm

If and when Joe Biden enters the already-crowded field of 2020 Democratic presidential candidates, he'll arguably become the frontrunner overnight. The former vice president sits atop both national polls and some surveys of key early primary states, and while these numbers are likely influenced by how much more famous Biden is than most of his potential competitors, his candidacy must look attractive to plenty of Democrats. He would represent a return to the less chaotic Obama era, and also has an "Uncle Joe" image that some observers think could win back Rust Belt voters who defected from the Democrats to Donald Trump in 2016, swinging the White House his way.

On the other hand, there's this: Biden got paid $200,000 to give a speech to a Republican-leaning business crowd in Michigan during which he praised GOP Congressman Fred Upton even as Democrats were clawing at his seat in the midterms, the New York Times reported Wednesday.


https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/yw8zy7/of-course-joe-biden-supported-a-republican-in-a-dollar200k-speech
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to workinclasszero (Reply #57)

Wed Apr 17, 2019, 10:47 PM

102. What was Joe thinking?!

 


Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to Autumn (Reply #4)

Wed Apr 17, 2019, 01:17 PM

30. Being a Democrat?

 

I thought he was going to join the party.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to LisaM (Reply #30)

Wed Apr 17, 2019, 01:28 PM

40. That's a 'value?'

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to pangaia (Reply #40)

Wed Apr 17, 2019, 01:36 PM

44. Yes, in my world, being a Democrat implies certain values.

 

I'm a lifelong Democrat, and I'm extremely proud of the fact. I think that being a Democrat shows that one espouses certain values.

Last I checked, this forum is for Democrats.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to LisaM (Reply #30)

Wed Apr 17, 2019, 02:07 PM

52. Bernie did joint the party to run as president. You may find that hippocritical. However,

 

it is still better Eric Swalwell who stated half of his cabinet would be republicans. When I vote for a Democract I do NOT expect them to fill the cabinet with Republicans.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to vsrazdem (Reply #52)

Wed Apr 17, 2019, 02:20 PM

56. I don't call that being a Democrat.

 

It's nice that he visited for a while, I guess.

Of course I don't think we should vote for someone who would put Republicans into the Cabinet (well, Obama put one in, Chuck Hagel), but perhaps that's no worse than putting Cornel West, who openly bashed Democrats and the sitting Democratic president, on a platform committee).

I do value being a Democrat, very much, and my party roots are very deep.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to LisaM (Reply #56)

Wed Apr 17, 2019, 02:42 PM

62. Take it up with the party, they made the rules. You don't like them, change them. nt

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to Autumn (Reply #62)

Wed Apr 17, 2019, 03:26 PM

75. I'm responding to a question that asked if I thought being a Democrat was "a value".

 

I think it is, yes. I'm proud to be one, always have been.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to LisaM (Reply #75)

Wed Apr 17, 2019, 03:39 PM

82. A label, what you call yourself, is different than values, they are principles or standards.

 

la·bel
/ˈlābəl/
noun
plural noun: labels
1.
a small piece of paper, fabric, plastic, or similar material attached to an object and giving information about it.
synonyms: tag, ticket, tab, sticker, marker, docket, chit, chitty, flag, stamp; More
2.
a classifying phrase or name applied to a person or thing, especially one that is inaccurate or restrictive.
"my reluctance to stick a label on myself politically"
synonyms: designation, denomination, description, characterization, identification, tag; More

val·ue
/ˈvalyo͞o/
noun
plural noun: values
1.
the regard that something is held to deserve; the importance, worth, or usefulness of something.
"your support is of great value"
synonyms: merit, worth, usefulness, use, utility, practicality, advantage, desirability, benefit, gain, profit, good, service, help, helpfulness, assistance, effectiveness, efficacy, avail, importance, significance, point, sense; informalmileage
"the value of adequate preparation cannot be understated"
2.
a person's principles or standards of behavior; one's judgment of what is important in life.
"they internalize their parents' rules and values"

synonyms: principles, moral principles, ethics, moral code, morals, moral values, standards, moral standards, code of behavior, rules of conduct, standards of behavior
"society's values are passed on to us as children"
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to Autumn (Reply #82)

Wed Apr 17, 2019, 05:49 PM

95. Hoo boy.

 

I'm not getting through to you; I'm terminating this conversation.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to LisaM (Reply #56)

Wed Apr 17, 2019, 03:27 PM

76. He said he wanted to fill half his cabinet with republicans. That is not what I am voting for.

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to vsrazdem (Reply #76)

Thu Apr 18, 2019, 12:33 AM

107. What about appointing

 

Stein voters to important campaign positions? Are you voting for that?
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to vsrazdem (Reply #52)

Wed Apr 17, 2019, 03:34 PM

78. Bernie also signed

 

To run as an Independent for the Senate in 2024.

How do we explain that?
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to True Blue American (Reply #78)

Wed Apr 17, 2019, 03:36 PM

80. He running as a Democrat as president, and if elected he will be the leader of the democratic party.

 

That is what I care about along with his policies. I could care less if he is an independent senator just like King, as long as he votes with the demotracts.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to vsrazdem (Reply #80)

Wed Apr 17, 2019, 03:41 PM

83. Then why did

 

Bernie sign up as an Indy to run in 2024?

Covering all his bases as he did in 2016?
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to True Blue American (Reply #83)

Wed Apr 17, 2019, 03:44 PM

84. He has always done that and frankly I don't give a damn. He is my first choice and if he doesn't

 

get the nomination I will vote for whoever has a D after their name, just like I did last time. But I would really have a sick stomach if I had to vote for someone who wants to fill half their cabinet with Repubs, to me that is a candidate who is not a real Democrat. Putting 1 or 2 good choices is one thing, but making an effort to fill half, NO thank you.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to vsrazdem (Reply #84)

Wed Apr 17, 2019, 03:45 PM

86. Well,

 

I do and many others care,too.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to True Blue American (Reply #86)

Wed Apr 17, 2019, 03:46 PM

88. Well, good for you. You certainly have a right to your opinion, as do I and many others.

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to LisaM (Reply #30)

Wed Apr 17, 2019, 02:30 PM

61. He is a Democrat. If he weren't the party would not allow him to run as one. nt.

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to Autumn (Reply #4)

Wed Apr 17, 2019, 01:55 PM

49. Why he voted against IWR , that's a disqualifier now days.

 

Remember Obama one time got the Nobel Peace Prize . Then what did he do?
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to Fresh_Start (Reply #1)

Wed Apr 17, 2019, 12:58 PM

8. FDR values are not Democratic values now?

 

Which important values does he not share?
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to dogman (Reply #8)

Wed Apr 17, 2019, 01:04 PM

16. FDR values were great for white men

 

not so good for people of color or women.

And in truth, Bernie does not see minority and women's issues as important as workers issues.
He made a statement yesterday? that we need to care for working families...
What about elderly families.

He is still stuck with values he decided on 40 years ago.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to Fresh_Start (Reply #16)

Wed Apr 17, 2019, 01:11 PM

25. Of course there were no benefits to anybody who wasn't white.

 

SS providing for widows and orphans never helped them? Expecting FDR to meet today's standards seems rational? And we know women and people of color are not working people, right? 50 years ago he was in Chicago getting jailed for those values.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to dogman (Reply #25)

Wed Apr 17, 2019, 01:27 PM

37. 50 years ago, he did the cool thing for people his age

 

he wasn't any Martin Luther King, etc
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to Fresh_Start (Reply #37)

Wed Apr 17, 2019, 01:38 PM

45. Real cool.

 

Going to jail and demonstrating with Martin Luther King. A childhood friend of mine marched with Martin Luther King in our hometown just outside Chicago. It was not the cool thing to do, it took guts to stand out in your community for the rights of others. I respect his memory and respect Bernie for standing out.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to Fresh_Start (Reply #1)

Wed Apr 17, 2019, 01:03 PM

15. Agree. He should not appear on any Democraitc ballot

 

until he becomes a Democrat
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to question everything (Reply #15)

Wed Apr 17, 2019, 01:14 PM

28. Those are the rules.

 

He will be in compliance or he will not be on the ballot. Still waiting for a list of Democratic values he does not share.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to dogman (Reply #28)

Wed Apr 17, 2019, 01:28 PM

39. He thinks it's ok to welcome anti-abortion candidates into the party.

 

He even campaigned for one.

Let's start there.

I don't believe he shares Democrats views on guns given his voting record.

I don't believe that he shares the Democrats perspective when it comes to diversity. He even went so far as to say that Democrats were only interested in voting for diversity for diversity sake regardless of qualification.

The guy bashes the party whenever he can and has adamantly stated he is not a Democrat.

Not sure what more you're looking for.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to MrsCoffee (Reply #39)

Wed Apr 17, 2019, 01:40 PM

46. We know he doesn't share the party's stance on Russian sanctions

 

Since he's the only one who voted against them (except Rand Paul). I mean, he gave himself a very, very thin veneer of coverage when he decided that the only hour in which he could attend a *whole day* meeting with the former staffers who spent a year trying to bring the sexual harassment in his campaign to his attention was the very same hour they voted whether to lift sanctions on Oleg Deripaska. Very convenient scheduling, that.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to KitSileya (Reply #46)

Wed Apr 17, 2019, 01:41 PM

47. Indeed.

 

And all of his blustering about Russia just being a distraction was a distraction in itself.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to MrsCoffee (Reply #39)

Wed Apr 17, 2019, 01:59 PM

50. The problem with Bernie is he won't take PAC money

 

and he won't take money from Steve Mnuchin, he is so ungrateful.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to bahrbearian (Reply #50)

Wed Apr 17, 2019, 02:06 PM

51. Yuk yuk.

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to MrsCoffee (Reply #39)

Wed Apr 17, 2019, 02:55 PM

66. you should take this up w/lipinski

 

Also a life long Democrat.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to sacto95834 (Reply #66)

Wed Apr 17, 2019, 03:17 PM

73. Already on it. He barely hung on last primary. He most likely won't win the next.

 

https://thehill.com/homenews/house/439111-progressive-dem-launches-second-challenge-against-illinois-rep-lipinski

The 2020 rematch will be the biggest Chicago-area primary. Newman, 55, from LaGrange, is jumping back in because Lipinski, 52, who lives in Western Springs, defeated her by only 2,145 votes, or 51.1 percent to 48.9 percent.

https://www.marienewmanforcongress.com/
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to MrsCoffee (Reply #39)

Wed Apr 17, 2019, 04:16 PM

90. Guns? Supporter of "I have a gun for my own protection"

 

Hey Harris is in my top two, but I have to call this out. You see, I do like Bernie, just too old.

Though watching a the media on him here, I am starting to think he may have some good years left.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to artislife (Reply #90)

Wed Apr 17, 2019, 05:20 PM

94. I see.

 

So owning a gun is the same as voting for immunity for gun manufacturers? Or the same as opposing the Brady bill?

He sends quite the mixed message on gun issues.

I don't get your comparison.


If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to Fresh_Start (Reply #1)

Wed Apr 17, 2019, 01:04 PM

19. I disagree.

 

In general, Bernie has "no true affiliation with the party" because he is further left...which, after 40 plus years of the Overton window moving to the right, we desperately need as a correction. And, btw, a big one.

Whether or not I agree with everything he says (and I don't) I am WAY closer to him than I am to the so-called "moderate" Dems.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to shanny (Reply #19)

Wed Apr 17, 2019, 01:07 PM

24. there are plenty of people further left who have a true affiliation with the party

 

so its not his philosophy as much as it is his inability to compromise.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to Fresh_Start (Reply #24)

Wed Apr 17, 2019, 01:17 PM

29. How is he not compromising?

 

He is not running for President as an Independent.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to dogman (Reply #29)

Wed Apr 17, 2019, 01:26 PM

36. lots of ways he doesn't compromise

 

he's running as a Democrat because he knows he cant possibly win as an independent.
Notice he immediately reverted to independent after 2016...and conveniently he says he's willing to take advantage of the democratic party again.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to Fresh_Start (Reply #36)

Wed Apr 17, 2019, 01:34 PM

43. There is a difference between State and National.

 

He could possibly win, but not likely. But if he wanted to destroy the Democratic Party, as many seem to claim, it would be devastating to the Democratic Party if he ran as an Independent. How is he taking advantage of the Democratic Party? They get another candidate with new people and new money. He gets, presumably, the support of a national organization. If elected, the Democrats get a Democratic President who shares their ideals.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to Fresh_Start (Reply #36)

Wed Apr 17, 2019, 03:00 PM

67. You rather he run as an independent?

 

And take Democratic votes with him? He has a minority of support in the party, but that support is sufficient to swing the election to the Republicans. So either welcome him or banish him and be ready to have the orange thing in the WH for another 4 years. Is purity that important? I thought all the Bernie foes were pragmatic and the "Bernie Bros" were the purist.

At least this is how I see it.
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Response to Fresh_Start (Reply #36)

Wed Apr 17, 2019, 03:44 PM

85. And has already

 

Signed to run as an Independent for the Senate in 2024!

We can not ignore that fact!
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Response to True Blue American (Reply #85)

Wed Apr 17, 2019, 06:52 PM

96. Actually we can ignore that fact

 

especially if I don't vote in Vermont and it's not 2024.
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Response to BlueWI (Reply #96)

Wed Apr 17, 2019, 10:56 PM

104. +1

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Response to True Blue American (Reply #85)

Wed Apr 17, 2019, 07:07 PM

97. I don't vote there.

 

So yes, I will ignore it.
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Response to Fresh_Start (Reply #24)

Wed Apr 17, 2019, 01:27 PM

38. Who? Serious question.

 

and imo it is his unwillingness to compromise on core beliefs that is valuable. No one can push or drag a party in a new direction if they are willing to compromise from the gitgo.

We NEED lefties in the mix to climb out of the hole we have dug for ourselves, as a nation and a species.
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Response to shanny (Reply #38)

Wed Apr 17, 2019, 01:31 PM

42. I'm much further to the left than Bernie

 

Bernie is still America First...

and that is not a far left value




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Response to Fresh_Start (Reply #42)

Wed Apr 17, 2019, 03:02 PM

68. I agree.

 

What leaders do we have who do not buy into the American empire? Gabbard is the only one I know who bucks the Washington orthodoxy and she is marginalized to the point of irrelevancy.
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Response to Fresh_Start (Reply #1)

Thu Apr 18, 2019, 11:14 AM

112. +1000. (nt)

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
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Joe Biden

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Response to Fresh_Start (Reply #1)

Thu Apr 18, 2019, 11:19 AM

113. Please define

 

"important values." Thanks.
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Response to Grasswire2 (Original post)

Wed Apr 17, 2019, 12:54 PM

2. I disagree

 

I will support the nominee but I really doubt that the nominee will be sanders. There are too many real democrats who have long memories and who will not forgive or forget. I doubt that sanders will be the nominee in that few Clinton supporters will support him and that sanders is not going to get any meaningful support from the African American base of the party unless sanders apologize to John Lewis and other African Americans for things like the planned stunt of booing John Lewis at the national convention
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Response to Gothmog (Reply #2)

Wed Apr 17, 2019, 12:57 PM

7. Hey! Did you find anything on Old Towne Media, LLC now that his taxes are released or are you

 

still perusing them?

https://www.democraticunderground.com/128760287#post20
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Response to Autumn (Reply #7)

Wed Apr 17, 2019, 01:01 PM

10. I have not looked at sanders returns other than to note that they were not from turbo tax

 

turbo tax does not change fonts. I understand that some forensic types are looking at these returns
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Response to Gothmog (Reply #10)

Wed Apr 17, 2019, 01:03 PM

13. So nothing there about it then, if there was there would be OPs on it.

 

Good to know.
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Response to Autumn (Reply #13)

Wed Apr 17, 2019, 01:05 PM

21. Lets see how sanders handles questions on this during the debates

 

it will be fun watching sanders lose his temper during the debates
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Response to Gothmog (Reply #21)

Wed Apr 17, 2019, 01:06 PM

23. Let me know when that happens.

 

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Undecided

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Response to Gothmog (Reply #21)

Thu Apr 18, 2019, 11:27 AM

114. Wow, that's really funny..

 

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Undecided

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Response to Autumn (Reply #13)

Wed Apr 17, 2019, 10:43 PM

100. How will sanders be the nominee with less than 30% support in the party

 

Even Mondale got more than 30% and we saw what happened in that race

?s=20
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Response to Gothmog (Reply #100)

Wed Apr 17, 2019, 11:02 PM

105. Your tweet? I think you have posted that persons tweets to me before. nt

 

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Response to Gothmog (Reply #10)

Wed Apr 17, 2019, 01:23 PM

34. He released the summaries, so we don't get to know where he has his money invested anyway.

 

So might as well not bother. Senator Sanders is most determined not to let us know where he has stashed his money, and has done the same as he did in 2015 - released incomplete tax returns that are mere summaries.
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Response to Gothmog (Reply #10)

Wed Apr 17, 2019, 01:30 PM

41. It says "self prepared" this is what you usually get with TurboTax

 

Don't know about the fonts
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Response to question everything (Reply #41)

Wed Apr 17, 2019, 03:19 PM

74. The fonts never change on turbo tax

 

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Response to Autumn (Reply #7)

Wed Apr 17, 2019, 01:02 PM

11. .

 

https://www.democraticunderground.com/128761449#post6

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Joe Biden

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Response to WeekiWater (Reply #11)

Wed Apr 17, 2019, 01:04 PM

18. Mistakes happen.

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to Autumn (Reply #18)

Wed Apr 17, 2019, 01:19 PM

32. Yes, they do. NT

 

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Response to Grasswire2 (Original post)

Wed Apr 17, 2019, 12:57 PM

6. something people miss about Sanders/Trump voters

 

People get confused about voters being able to make that kind of switch, because they think in terms of ideology. Sanders and Trump have opposite ideologies.

But I think most Sanders/Trump voters are low-information and probably swing voters, and as such give no shits about ideology. For them the equation was simple: Sanders and Trump were both change candidates while Hillary was a status quo candidate.
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Response to paulkienitz (Reply #6)

Wed Apr 17, 2019, 01:04 PM

17. I believe you're right.

 

The RW anarchists went R while the LW anarchists went Green. The strange part of all this, I think, is people who think they have a right to someones' vote. Sadly, many do not realize the value of their vote, look at the millions of dollars spent on votes. Your vote is yours, you are free to spend it as you see fit.
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Undecided

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Response to paulkienitz (Reply #6)

Wed Apr 17, 2019, 01:06 PM

22. Trump and Sanders may have different ideologies in some ways

 

but they both present themselves as 'know it alls', 'don't worry, I'll fix it', very patriarchial.
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Response to Fresh_Start (Reply #22)

Wed Apr 17, 2019, 01:19 PM

31. Not me, US!

 

So patriarchal. That's your language not his.
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Response to dogman (Reply #31)

Wed Apr 17, 2019, 03:03 PM

69. No it is very much his language.. you are splitting hairs.

 

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Response to Thekaspervote (Reply #69)

Wed Apr 17, 2019, 04:18 PM

91. I hear he likes to sniff the hair of females in the crowd, too

 

Not splitting hair, just enjoying them.
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Response to paulkienitz (Reply #6)


Response to Post removed (Reply #27)

Wed Apr 17, 2019, 01:24 PM

35. Probably true.

 

What is the point? I doubt they are active on DU. Why hold Bernie or the majority of his supporters responsible for them?
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Response to Post removed (Reply #27)


Response to paulkienitz (Reply #6)

Wed Apr 17, 2019, 03:39 PM

81. Exactly

 

They both also tapped into the same anger a lot of people were feeling. I had conversations with a couple of Obama/Trump voters that surprised me. It turns out they were operating with a racist stereotype in mind. They thought they were voting for Samuel L. Jackson and were angry to discover that he turned out to be more like Sidney Poitier.
Hillary Clinton was a continuation of the underlying Obama and pre-Obama professorial Democrats like John Kerry, and Al Gore.
I have no idea how it will work this time around, but I think a lot of analysts (professional and amateur) miss a lot about 2016 by trying to box it into ideology and belief systems while overlooking the more generic emotional element.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided

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Response to loyalsister (Reply #81)

Wed Apr 17, 2019, 04:25 PM

92. There was a "throw them all out" mood

 

I think both parties overlooked the lowest tier of donors. Neither cared and thought those voters had no where else to go. Well, the Right rejected Jeb and the Left rejected Hillary. There were a lot of people who sat out and people who had never join in who did.

I had a roommate during the first George Bush election. I am sure he voted for Trump. Anyway, we would have political discussions and I was worried until he confessed he didn't vote. Then I really just listened to try to understand his white man pain. But as the years wore on, I imagine his "pain" wasn't alleviated and I believe he voted and it was for Trump.

People who feel marginalized do unexpected things, like Trump, Columbine, run for office, get married...you just never know what they will do to break a cycle of feeling not worthy.
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Undecided

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Response to paulkienitz (Reply #6)

Wed Apr 17, 2019, 03:46 PM

87. And they both were anti-immigrant and foreign trade -- AKA, America Firsters.

 

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Joe Biden

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Response to paulkienitz (Reply #6)

Wed Apr 17, 2019, 10:48 PM

103. I dont know about change candidates but...

 

..they were definitely dudes.
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Response to Grasswire2 (Original post)

Wed Apr 17, 2019, 01:03 PM

14. why do folks think these types of posts accomplish anything?

 

Everyone stick to your candidate and why you think they are great if you want folks to be persuaded.

Everything else is as likely to annoy and push away as anything else.
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Undecided

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Response to Grasswire2 (Original post)

Wed Apr 17, 2019, 01:05 PM

20. The 3/4 who voted Democrat are Democrats like me.

 

Though I was shocked at their condoning of months of dishonest and destructive primary election behaviors, they were too solid in their beliefs to be shaken by Sanders' rhetoric.

It's the OTHER 23-24% I blame Sanders especially for. I blame him for all he said and did that encouraged them to vote for anyone but Democrats.

Btw, 12% of Sanders primary voters voted directly for Trump, another 10% or so threw their votes away third-party instead of standing against Republicans, and 2% did not vote at all, presumably because they bought Sanders' message that Democrats and Republicans were both corrupt. Weak-minded and impressionistic, yes, but Sanders knew what they were and could have gotten most of the last 2 groups to the polls to vote Democrat but did not.
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Response to Hortensis (Reply #20)

Wed Apr 17, 2019, 03:05 PM

71. +100.. can only hope he's out sooner and won't cause as much damage

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
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Joe Biden

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Response to Thekaspervote (Reply #71)

Wed Apr 17, 2019, 03:32 PM

77. Me too, but I suspect he won't drop out. He'll keep taking

 

party money and distracting national attention from the candidates to do what he does.

The other possibility, of course, would be announcing a third-party campaign, perhaps necessary because his nomination was being stolen by the DNC and dozens of state Democratic Parties again. That one sold so well before, it's implanted like an militant religion among his zealous supporters. All he'd have to do is shake his head sorrowfully each Wednesday morning as he did in the later primaries, like oxygen blown into a fire.
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Response to Grasswire2 (Original post)

Wed Apr 17, 2019, 01:12 PM

26. Personally, I'm tired of angsty white tears

 

The discussions about race should be harsh and painful and leave a scar on anyone not a victim of racism. I’m of the opinion we need to show those scars and not hide behind whiteness. Anyone NOT a victim of racism has been a beneficiary of a system that oppresses.

It was always, always more than economic justice—that is just a convenient fiction to avoid those painful, harsh truth about race and gender and sexuality.

I’m less angry, I used to say ( just a few months ago) I’d be angry for the rest of my life. I will never forget however. The gaslighting, the distortions and the lies continues with a media with burned fingers that heal fast.

Now personally, I don’t believe Bernie Sanders has any pathway to the presidency. I’ve never believed that. Many people DO believe that and I’m ok with it.

He is, though, a powerful fulcrum, of opinion and votes. We will see how this plays out.
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Response to Grasswire2 (Original post)

Wed Apr 17, 2019, 01:20 PM

33. For me, some Bernie supporters of today are as reprehensible as Trumpian deplorables

 

The ones quoted in the article below, published today, when they have ample evidence for the horrific consequences of their choices, show me that this subset of his supporters is despicable. They have no problems sacrificing children in cages, Muslim Americans, women who want abortions - anyone who isn't their privileged contemptible selves on the altar of the 'revolution'. Heck, even the judiciary is probably destroyed for the next 50-60 years thanks to the Trumpian deplorables and these despicables. 20% of all judges nominated by a president is a Trump nominee as we speak! He still has nearly two more years to increase the destruction of any semblance of a rational, lawful judiciary.

‘Bernie or Bust’ Voters Create Predicament for Democrats in 2020
By Sahil Kapur
April 17, 2019, 10:00 AM GMT+2

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-04-17/-bernie-or-bust-voters-create-predicament-for-democrats-in-2020

“Sometimes things have to get ugly before they get better,” said Melissa Mallaber, a 46-year-old social worker who attended Sanders’ rally in Pittsburgh on Sunday. “There’s such a thing as necessary evils in life to restore the balance.”

....

“I had this thought that maybe it’s gotta get real bad to get better,” Donna Dunaj, 76, said at Sanders’ rally Saturday in Macomb County, Michigan. “In other words, Trump wins, but we wouldn’t let it happen again.”

Dunaj said she backed Stein in 2016 and doesn’t know how she’d vote in 2020 if Sanders isn’t the nominee.

....

“I don’t like that mentality,” said Ronnie Hasting, a 36-year-old union ironworker who attended Sanders’ Pittsburgh rally. “Removing Trump isn’t the only goal. Electing a corporatist Democrat is counterproductive, hence my vote for Jill Stein in 2016.”
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Response to Grasswire2 (Original post)

Wed Apr 17, 2019, 02:12 PM

54. Unfortunately, Twitter tells another story

 

But sadly most of St. Bern's cabal who were telling Dems to stay home or vote Trump/Stein instead of Hillary have smartly scrubbed and bleached their twitter histories (I'm looking in your direction, David Fucking Sirota)...

No, not *every* Berner fucked us and most did fall in line, but enough Berners DID fuck us to make a difference... And most of them are right back where they were in 2016 pretending nothing happened.

I didn't trust them in 2016 and nothing I've seen in their actions since has given me any reason to trust them now.
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Response to Grasswire2 (Original post)


Response to Grasswire2 (Original post)

Wed Apr 17, 2019, 02:21 PM

58. Oh for crying out loud we have someone right on this thread who wrote in Bernie in the GE.

 



You spent a lot of time over at JPR, surely you know how many voted for Stein/wrote in Bernie.

So yeah, those people still suck.
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Response to Grasswire2 (Original post)

Wed Apr 17, 2019, 02:25 PM

59. In 2016, three of us -- close friends -- all were Bernie supporters.

 

All three of us, long time Dems. In the general, I voted for Hillary. The other two, both long time Dems, both voted for Trump. It did not matter much because we live in California and it was a "for sure" for Hillary. However, both of my pals, both elderly and one female and one male, hated Hillary beyond belief. They hated her more than they hated Trump. However, both felt that Trump had no way of winning POTUS. Maybe this could have been some of the Trump cross-overs by Bernie supporters? The belief that there was no way the orange asshole could win coupled with a huge dislike of Hillary.
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Response to Grasswire2 (Original post)

Wed Apr 17, 2019, 02:25 PM

60. I don't hold Bernie supporters responsible. I hold Sanders' lack of leadership responsible.

 

I feel he failed to deliver in 2016. As a Democrat running for the nomination, he had a responsibility to campaign hard for the Democratic nominee. He failed. Based on what I saw, he didn't try very hard at all.

Why in hell anyone thinks I should support him in the primary now, I have no idea. Particularly after he HIRES PEOPLE WHO CAMPAIGNED AGAINST HILLARY IN THE 2016 GENERAL ELECTION. If there was any hope of my support this year (unlikely, but) he sure torpedoed that when he hired those people.
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Response to MH1 (Reply #60)

Wed Apr 17, 2019, 03:55 PM

89. I agree

 

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Joe Biden

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Response to MH1 (Reply #60)

Thu Apr 18, 2019, 12:31 AM

106. He had other priorities.

 

Like a book to write that put him squarely in the millionaire's club.
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Response to namahage (Reply #106)

Thu Apr 18, 2019, 10:54 AM

110. I don't fault him for making money off a book, BUT

 

to the extent what you say is true - that he worked on the book rather than working on electing the Dem nominee - fuck him.

It is the lack of effort to keep Trump out of the WH that pisses me off. And I was never a fan of Hillary running in the first place. I like Hillary as a person and think the attacks against her are largely false and/or grossly exaggerated. But the deck was stacked against her as a presidential candidate and I didn't like that the DNC jumped to promote someone so handicapped in such an important election (critical, given the state of the Supreme Court). But none of that absolves Sanders. None of it. And he compounds it by his divisive run this time.
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Response to Grasswire2 (Original post)

Wed Apr 17, 2019, 02:44 PM

63. Not mad, just don't give a shit.

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
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Undecided

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Response to Grasswire2 (Original post)

Wed Apr 17, 2019, 02:44 PM

64. Cool story bro nt

 

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Response to Grasswire2 (Original post)

Wed Apr 17, 2019, 03:03 PM

70. not so mad at bs as i am/was about the way some of his supporters acted toward HRC and her voters...

 

...it wasnt pretty. Maybe we have ALL grown up since then..? Hope that doesnt happen again.....
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Response to samnsara (Reply #70)

Wed Apr 17, 2019, 03:14 PM

72. yeah....but those supporters who acted badly may be the ones who were never Dems..

 

...and didn't share core values of Dems. If they were really Trumpers or spoilers, of course they acted badly.

It is also true that Bernie supporters feel they were treated badly as well, in the convention.

But we are not here to re-litigate.

We are here to find ways to WIN in 2020.
If I were to vote in a presidential
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Undecided

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Response to Grasswire2 (Original post)

Wed Apr 17, 2019, 03:36 PM

79. According to Jim Messina, trump will beat sanders easily

 




Political adviser Jim Messina, who managed former President Barack Obama’s re-election campaign in 2012, answered a question Wednesday that has been on the minds of Democrats looking ahead at the 2020 presidential race.

"Can Bernie Sanders beat Donald Trump?" ABC News Chief White House Correspondent Jonathan Karl asked Messina on the Powerhouse Politics podcast on Wednesday.

"No," Messina responded.,,,,

"I think if you look at swing voters in this country they are incredibly focused on the economy," Messina replied. "I think today you look at it and say that Bernie Sanders is unlikely going to be able to stand up to the constant barrage that is Donald Trump on economic issues."
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Response to Grasswire2 (Original post)

Wed Apr 17, 2019, 04:56 PM

93. Those are the voters we don't need to care about...

 

We DO need to care about the OBAMA voters who crossed over to vote for Trump. And there were more than some people here are willing to acknowledge.


A study by the Democracy Fund Voter Study Group found that 9.2% of Obama voters voted for Trump in 2016.[1] According to the American National Election Study, 13% of Trump voters had voted for Obama in 2012.--Wikipedia
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Response to Grasswire2 (Original post)

Wed Apr 17, 2019, 07:41 PM

98. Bernie Friends

 

The Bernie friends I couldnt convert to Clinton were voting for somebody other. I think that hurt us as well. DOnt you?
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Response to Grasswire2 (Original post)

Wed Apr 17, 2019, 10:10 PM

99. I blame those who voted for Trump for Trump's election.

 

If I were to vote in a presidential
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Undecided

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Response to Grasswire2 (Original post)

Thu Apr 18, 2019, 08:49 AM

108. I'll just leave this here:

 


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Joe Biden

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Response to Grasswire2 (Original post)

Thu Apr 18, 2019, 09:36 AM

109. We've been hearing these excuses for 2-1/2 years

 

I have no reason to feel anything but disgust for them all. I will not forget, I will not forgive. Period.

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Response to Grasswire2 (Original post)

Thu Apr 18, 2019, 11:12 AM

111. What do you think about today's forbes.com article

 

where polling shows that 100% of Mayor Buttigieg's supporters would vote for Senator Sanders if he is the nominee, but only 79% of the Senator's supporters said they'd vote for Mayor Buttigieg? 26% of them would not vote for Senator Warren.

This is this time around. If I understand the numbers correctly, there're also statistics that show as few as 51% of those who voted for Senator Sanders in the previous primary ended up voting for the Democratic nominee in the GE. Why shouldn't we be mad? Why shouldn't we be wary of anyone who says they support Senator Sanders based on these statistics? Many of them decided that they didn't care and don't care how many are killed, maimed, have their lives destroyed by the Trump administration, if they couldn't or can't get their choice. Secretary Clinton said that half of Trump's supporters were deplorables - she was being generous, but I would say that all those in that poll who will not vote for the Democratic nominee if it's anyone but Senator Sanders is of the same ilk. There is no thin veil of pretending not to know the consequences of such a choice anymore. We know now how bad it is, and can estimate correctly how much worse it is going to get if Trump isn't removed. Democracy in the US will be destroyed, and this is not hyperbole. Anyone who does not do their utmost to stop that is a deplorable. Voting for the Democratic nominee is the very minimum we can expect of anyone who does not want to be lumped in with the deplorables.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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