Warren and Sanders pounce as Biden enters the race

[Omaha Steve]

By Gregory Krieg, CNN

Updated 11:28 PM ET, Thu April 25, 2019

(CNN)Joe Biden is in -- and the knives are out.

Sen. Elizabeth Warren of Massachusetts welcomed the former vice president to the 2020 Democratic primary on Thursday by reminding voters of their old clashes over the nation's bankruptcy laws.

"I got in that fight because (families) just didn't have anyone and Joe Biden was on the side of the credit card companies," Warren said after being asked about the issue following a rally in Iowa. "It's all a matter of public record.
"
The nearly two-decade-old Warren-Biden feud is, indeed, well documented. Warren has, in multiple interviews and op-eds, criticized Biden, during his time in the Senate, over his role in moving along legislation she believed would benefit big banks at the expense of working and middle-class Americans.

FULL story: https://www.cnn.com/2019/04/25/politics/warren-sanders-biden/index.html

[BeyondGeography]

1. We need a candidate who can throw a good punch

Warren continues to impress.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

17. Elizabeth sure does... again, she speaks the truth! Would love her & Bernie on the Democratic ticket

And, as I've said many times, I could take them in either order... they're both THAT good.

Go Elizabeth... I stand with her on this one!!


Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!!! or
Elizabeth & Bernie 2020!!!
Either way, welcome to the revolution!!!

[oldsoftie]

2. Of course they "pounce'. Its politics & they're playing catch up.

beware of unintended consequences.

[Nanjeanne]

3. Sanders pounced? By sending an email with Biden in subject line? Wow.

That’s some pouncing.

I got emails from Beto and Kamala who also send fundraising emails with Biden in the subject line.

If that’s pouncing, Biden is in for a rough ride. Jeez CNN.

[UniteFightBack]

6. It's quite clear that Bernie Sanders FOLLOWERS are not objective. nt

[BlueFlorida]

8. +1

[Nanjeanne]

16. Haaaaaaa.

I love a good laugh on a rainy day. Thanks for starting it off with a good one.

[CentralMass]

18. Are you the arbiter of objectivity ?

[UniteFightBack]

69. You damn skippy. nt

[cannabis_flower]

22. And..

Biden followers are?

[liberalnarb]

26. Certainly not on DU.

[Chakaconcarne]

31. Geezus... what the hell people?

[UniteFightBack]

74. Oh well you need to look around a little better. I just posted in the Biden don't do weed thread

that I disagree with him on that one. See I just don't follow people, regardless of what they say.

I KNOW not every idea or thing that comes out of Biden's OR ANYONE ELSE'S mouth is gold or something I'll agree with.

I don't blindly FOLLOW.

[qazplm135]

64. any followers are?

this is going to be a long, nasty primary season.

Your favored candidate will take AND give shots to someone else's favored candidate.

Folks better get thick skin quick and realize this isn't tiddlywinks.

Whether that's Bernie followers, or Biden followers, or anyone else.

[UniteFightBack]

70. Never said that. I'm a supporter, not a follower. Big difference. I'll bet Bernie could say he'd

shoot someone on Vermont Road......

[tymorial]

76. So true

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

19. If that's pouncing, okay, then we need a "pouncer" like Elizabeth... she's AWESOME!!

Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!!! or
Elizabeth & Bernie 2020!!!
Either way, welcome to the revolution!!!

[louis c]

23. Bernie and Elizabeth in 2020...

...how to pick up no Trump states and lose Nevada and Virginia.

The other side is poised to misrepresent Socialism to the 10% of the electorate that we need to win. While we're attempting to explain Socialism to the white working class without a college education that has the attention span of a gnat, Trump will waltz to a second term.

Remember, we shouldn't need to convince people at DU to vote for the Democrat in the General Election (Well, I hope not. At least not this time), the voters that determine the election vote on feelings instead of facts. I'm sorry that's the way it is. I'd love for the entire process to be purely cerebral, but it's not. Everyone gets a vote.

[marylandblue]

30. It's okay, if Warren wins, she is not picking Sanders.

Her best choice is a white male, preferably from the Midwest.

[liberalnarb]

37. Sanders would take Wisconsin and Michigan

and have a good shot at Pennsylvania.

[louis c]

43. But lose Virginia and North Carolina and Florida...

...that Socialist label stings in the South

[liberalnarb]

45. Obama didn't win North or South Carolina or Georgia or a majority of southern states in 2012.

If Virginia went both for Obama twice and then Hillary, I think Bernie would pick it up.

[louis c]

52. Please reread the post...

Florida and Virginia were won by Obama. Nobody said South Carolina or Georgia.

In states where we can win, but not lose 4% or 5%, like Virginia, we lose the election even if we win the mid-west.

The problem with Warren and Sanders voters is they think everyone in the country votes like Cambridge Mass, Burlington Vt and San Francisco.

We need to win over voters that aren't that smart and vote on feelings and can easily mislead

[George II]

28. It's the content of the email, not just the subject line - it attacked Biden.

I got the email from Harris, too. Here's how it began (bold was Harris', not mine):

I’m sure you saw the news: As of this morning, my friend Joe Biden is now running for president. And you know what I say to that? The more, the merrier!

Joe brings a wealth of knowledge to the race, and I’m excited to debate ideas and policy with him and the many other candidates running for president in the coming months.

Two completely different messages and attitudes.

[PatSeg]

33. Good for her

That was not only the right thing to do, but also the smart thing politically. Voters don't have the stomach for a lot of candidate bashing within the party. It demeans everyone.

Meanwhile, Harris might be auditioning for VP should she not get the Democratic nomination. The one thing I remember about Joe in the 2007-08 primary is he treated fellow Democrats with respect. A little bit of grace goes a long way.

[liberalnarb]

38. I got the e-mail.

Here's the content.

- This campaign was never going to be easy. From the start, we knew it would take an unprecedented grassroots effort in order to win the nomination.

Not only are we taking on a political and corporate establishment, but we are running against a record number of candidates at the same time.

And today, there is one more candidate in the race.

That makes today a big day for our campaign - and an important moment to show that we are the one who can beat ** and transform this country. So we are asking - especially today: (proceeds to ask for donation)

Biden was only mentioned two times and both were simply to acknowledge he had entered the race.

[George II]

40. That takes a disingenuous shot at:

"a political and corporate establishment". There was another one that went out too, which said:

"It's a big day in the Democratic primary and we're hoping to end it strong. Not with a fundraiser in the home of a corporate lobbyist, but with an overwhelming number of individual donations in response to today's news."

That is a misrepresentation of his donations. Yes, there are "an overwhelming number of donations" but they're not necessarily from an overwhelming number of donORs.

[liberalnarb]

44. Except that they are.

And Biden DID host a fundraiser in the home of a REPUBLICAN corporate lobbyist. And taking shots at the political and corporate establishment is not disingenuous.

[George II]

53. Here's the other email from Sanders on the right:

Link to tweet

/photo/1

[liberalnarb]

56. So what?

The issue is he didn't heap praise on Biden?

[George II]

60. The issue is he's running as a Democrat, yet he takes shots at the Democratic Party....

....any chance he gets.

[liberalnarb]

61. "The Political Establishment" is not The Democratic Party as a whole.

There have been many Dem candidates who run campaigns aimed against the establishment. That does not mean they hate their party.

[tymorial]

77. So much this and then has the audacity to state that the Democrats must band together to beat trump

I am sick of his campaign.

[Kurt V.]

4. K&R

[UniteFightBack]

5. It's funny how the first to pounce are the candidates who are newest to the Dem party. nt

[watoos]

7. It's funny how some candidates

get by without taking big money donations. There are several candidates who are only taking small people donations and those candidates are higher up on my list.

[stonecutter357]

10. It's funny how some candidates can't get big money donations.

[Demit]

12. Joe Biden won't be shy about that. He's welcoming money from Republican donors as well.

Here's a couple who were at his fundraiser in Phila last night:

Daniel Hilferty is the CEO of Independence Blue Cross. He is on the board of America’s Health Insurance Plans, the trade association working to defeat the progressive push for Medicare for All. In national politics, Hilftery has exclusively donated to Republicans this year, records show. The health insurance executive gave $5,000 to Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell, R-Ky., along with smaller donations to other congressional Republicans.

David Cohen, the event’s host, has donated to dozens of Republicans over the years. During the 2016 election, Cohen donated to Hillary Clinton’s presidential campaign, along with the Republican Federal Committee of Pennsylvania, a group that poured money into the state that year to elect Donald Trump. This year, however, over 90 percent of Cohen’s political spending has gone to Republican groups, according to campaign finance disclosures.

[stonecutter357]

24. if that is what it takes to beat putin / trump !

[George II]

57. So? ANY candidate will need the support and votes of republicans to be elected president.

[Demit]

65. Votes, maybe--in the general election. But financial support? In a primary?

Just be aware of why wealthy Republican businessmen are supporting him now, at this early stage. Don't close your mind to the usual reasons wealthy conservatives do anything.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

20. THIS!!!! +1,000

Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!

[George II]

48. Remember, NO single person can contribute more than $2800/yr. To many of us that's a "big money"...

....contribution, but ALL candidates are accepting contributions of that magnitude. If people get into the guts of the financials, they'll see that.

[UniteFightBack]

73. I'll bet they are higher up on your list...since you're starting at the bottom.

[Celerity]

9. Warren has been a Democrat since 1996

Gabbard, Buttigieg, Swalwell, and Moulton were not even old enough to vote then, and Castro, Messam, Beto, Ryan, and Yang were not old enough to even run for the House, let alone the Senate or POTUS.

[honest.abe]

42. She was a Republican until she was in her 40's.

Probably voted for Reagan but she wont fess up to it. Hard to imagine going from a Reagan voter in your 40's and then a hard line liberal a few years later. I believe she is sincere but its just weird.

[liberalnarb]

47. She didn't vote for Reagan.

[honest.abe]

49. Really.. see below..

In an interview with The Daily Beast released on Tuesday, Warren, 62, who recently began a bid to unseat Sen. Scott Brown (R-Mass.) admitted that up into her early 40s she was a Republican.

"I was a Republican because I thought that those were the people who best supported markets. I think that is not true anymore," Warren said. "I was a Republican at a time when I felt like there was a problem that the markets were under a lot more strain. It worried me whether or not the government played too activist a role."

Warren admitted though that she voted for both Democrats and Republicans.

“There should be some Republicans and some Democrats,” Warren said.

But she declined to say whether she voted for Ronald Reagan in either his first presidential campaign or his reelection campaign.

https://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/189657--liberal-favorite-elizabeth-warren-admits-she-was-a-republican

[liberalnarb]

50. Yes, really:

That GOP registration, though, has set off speculation over the years that one of the Senate’s most progressive champions may have at one time been a Ronald Reagan backer.

So we asked her: Is it true? Is it possible the champion of the regulatory cops on Wall Street voted for the man who made deregulation a hallmark of his presidency?

No.

In 1980, she said, she was a registered independent living in Missouri City, Texas, and cast her vote to re-elect Carter.

When Reagan won, she wasn’t happy but not crushed the way she was on election night in 2016. “I was disappointed and didn’t like him, but I wasn’t deeply worried for the country, not anything like when Trump was elected,” she explained. If she could go back in time, she said, she would tell herself “this was a far more pivotal historical moment than you understand.”

https://theintercept.com/2018/02/19/elizabeth-warren-opens-up-about-her-choices-in-every-presidential-election-since-1972/

[honest.abe]

51. Then why didn't she say that in her 2011 interview with the Daily Beast?

Inconsistent at best. Also, your article doesn't mention how she said she voted in 1984, Reagan's reelection. I suspect that's the one she voted for Reagan which is probably why she is so wishy-washy about it.

[liberalnarb]

54. Why would she vote for him the second time if she opposed him the first?

You really think Elizabeth Warren, of all people, was pleased with the things Reagan did in his first term?

[honest.abe]

55. If she didnt then why wouldn't she simply say that in that Daily Beast interview?

Its odd for sure. That's my point.

[liberalnarb]

58. One reason could be that it was 2011.

It wasn't that long ago, but the window hadn't shifted quite as leftward as it has now. Reagan was still seen by both the repugs and even some Democrats as a good and honorable man, not the racist, evil piece of shit that he was. Remember the DNC in 2012? Charlie Christ, a repug until 2010, spoke and quoted Reagan. He even claimed in an interview that Reagan would have been supportive of Pres Obama. That was the climate at the time Warren gave that interview.

[honest.abe]

59. I dont get your logic. Are you saying she was afraid to tell the truth?

Confused.

[liberalnarb]

63. I'm saying that at this time the dialogue has swung left.

In 2011, it was less so. Being critical of Saint Ronnie was more risky then. I remember hearing in 2012 about how Reagan's was "how the republican party used to be" as if that was a good thing.

[Celerity]

66. she was only a registered Republican from 1991 to 1996, after she moved to PA

Last edited Sun Jun 23, 2019, 12:28 AM - Edit history (2)

my reply here goes into much more detail with links:

https://www.democraticunderground.com/128791270#post36

[honest.abe]

67. And an Independent before that who voted for Republicans.

I still find it weird for a person to convert from a Republican in their 40's to a hard core liberal a few years later. I would think one's political persuasion is formed in their early voting years.

[Celerity]

68. in terms of POTUS the only Repug she voted for was Ford, but liked Carter, voted for him in 1980

The main Republican (and reason she registered R after moving to PA) was Arlen Specter, who also switched to the Democratic Party.

Did you see that list of R's to D I put in there. People evolve all the time. Hillary was a Goldwater Girl ffs, lolol.

This is all small beer, Warren was NEVER a RW'er. Not saying you are calling her that, but anyone who does or infers it is just being tendentious. She has been a rock solid progressive for ages. If she was repug-lite, do you think Schumer and her peers would trust her to be the Vice Chair of the Senate Democratic Caucus?

[honest.abe]

75. She never denied voting for Reagan.

According to an interview she did with Daily Beast in 2011.

See posts above for link.

[Celerity]

78. you keep pushing that old 2011 article, my links are to a more detailed one that is 7 years newer

see my multiple posts

here is an excerpt

Her first presidential vote, in 1972, had been cast against a man she said she disliked passionately, Richard Nixon. But reflecting on how little she had paid attention to day-to-day politics at the time, she couldn’t immediately recall who had been running against him. When told it was Democrat George McGovern, she said, Yes, she would have voted for him but didn’t have any specific memory of having done so. (She was living in New Jersey at the time.)

Going to the polls, she said, was nothing new for her. Warren’s mother had been a poll worker and brought her young daughter to the polls each Election Day.

Nixon was re-elected that year, of course, but resigned and was replaced by Gerald Ford. Warren said she had voted for him in 1976, believing that “Ford was a decent man.”

But she was happy with Jimmy Carter, who beat him. “I thought he [also] was a decent man,” she said, transferring her then-standard for what she wanted in a politician from Ford to Carter. “He was a really good man.”

As the ’80s wore on and her research on bankruptcy progressed, Warren started waking up politically. At the time, though, the two parties had yet to separate entirely along ideological lines, as some deeply conservative and racist Democrats still held office, as did some genuinely liberal Republicans.

In 1988, Warren voted for Michael Dukakis but, in 1992, split her ticket, voting for Republican Arlen Specter for Senate and Democrat Bill Clinton for president. Specter is a good example of the one-time flexibility of the party system and the politicians within it: He began and ended his career as a Democrat, but was a Republican for much of the middle of it.

By the fall of 1987, she had moved to Pennsylvania and registered there as a Republican. Warren said she couldn’t quite remember why she did it but that she was a fan of Specter. “Again, I thought he was a decent man,” she said. She couldn’t recall whom he ran against. (His Democratic opponent was Lynn Yeakel.)

That GOP registration, though, has set off speculation over the years that one of the Senate’s most progressive champions may have at one time been a Ronald Reagan backer.

So we asked her: Is it true? Is it possible the champion of the regulatory cops on Wall Street voted for the man who made deregulation a hallmark of his presidency?

No.

In 1980, she said, she was a registered independent living in Missouri City, Texas, and cast her vote to re-elect Carter.

When Reagan won, she wasn’t happy but not crushed the way she was on election night in 2016. “I was disappointed and didn’t like him, but I wasn’t deeply worried for the country, not anything like when Trump was elected,” she explained. If she could go back in time, she said, she would tell herself “this was a far more pivotal historical moment than you understand.”

Do you even bother to read the replies? Or do you just keep putting up the same out of date things even when you have been shown much newer info than contradicts your slanting? You are becoming pedantic, sorry.


cheers

[honest.abe]

79. I dont see a single link in the post I replied to.

If what you posted is accurate then what happened in the 2011 Daily Beast interview? Did the author misquote her? Was she afraid to tell the truth? If so why?

[Celerity]

81. here, once again, is the link and a snapshot of the post I replied TO YOU that contained it

I should NOT have to keep posting the same entire thing up and down the thread just because you are trying to push some dodgy angle of attack and/or innuendo onto Warren that I have SHOWN YOU IS WRONG.





https://www.democraticunderground.com/128791270#post36


You keep on trying to spin spin spin that old article. It was from 2011, and now I have showed you an article from 7 years later that clears up any ambiguity that seems to be emanating from the Daily Beast into your thought patterns.

Give it up, at least with me. The sophistry is never going to work. I have no clue what your issue is with Warren, but these repetitive attempts to try and paint her as some sort of less-whole-cloth Democratic candidate is really not a good look. Did you go after Hillary Clinton for being a Goldwater Girl with such vigour? Howard Dean? Chris Coons? All the other Repug to Dem switchers? It seems to be a valid question of you at this point, given the amount of energy with which you are trying to put Warren under the cosh on this issue.

[honest.abe]

84. Its simply odd she refused to confirm whom she voted for back then in that interview.

Thats all.

[stonecutter357]

11. +1000

[Celerity]

36. also, Warren didnt register as a Republican until 1991, and almost never voted for a Repub POTUS

Last edited Sun Jun 23, 2019, 12:31 AM - Edit history (1)

She grew up in an FDR Democratic household.

Her first vote the POTUS was AGAINST Nixon in 1972. She did vote for Ford, but liked Carter. She voted Carter in 1980 and Mondale in 1984. In 1988 she voted for Dukakis, and in 1992, Clinton. Obviously voted for Clinton again in 1996 and every other Democrat since then. She registered as a Republican because she had moved to PA and liked Arlen Specter, who also switched to our Party from Republican.


Maybe people also have issues with former Republicans Howard Dean, Hillary Clinton, Leon Panetta, Chris Coons (has Biden's old seat in the Senate), Carolyn McCarthy, Harley Rouda, Gabby Giffords, James Webb, Wendy Davis, Gil Cisneros, Jim Jeffords, Patrick Murphy, and Specter himself, etc.etc etc. Some of them even ran (oh the HORROR!) for President.

Speaking of other current Democratic candidates, you sure as hell do not see Warren going and giving a 200,000 USD (plus 50,000 in travel expenses) paid speech to a Republican fundraiser for a Republican Representative named Fred Upton (who had just voted to repeal Obamacare a few months before) in Michigan a few months back, right before the 2018 elections. That doesn't seem like a very Democratic-friendly thing to do does it? Warren would not have done it, no way.


Warren is tied for the 2nd lowest Trump score in the entire Senate



compare that to the highest Democrats




NO way can she be framed as some consistently villainous ex-Rethug who was in it for the cash (she grew up dirt poor) and is some late-comer to the game.

All I am asking for her is a fair shake.

She is a ROCK SOLID Democrat, a wonderful, warm, hyper-intelligent, lucid-thinking person and would make a superb POTUS.

If Pete drops out, I might be switching to Warren, she has sold me, as has Harris.

[honest.abe]

80. Where is the link that states she voted for Mondale in 1984?

I dont see that in any of the links you posted.

[Celerity]

82. I have sent it to you multiple times, and also posted a large excerpt explaining just that

GOOD BYE

[honest.abe]

83. Nope. I did a text search of the articles you sent and nothing regarding 1984 vote.

Never mind. Im sorry if this comes off as bashing her. I do believe she is sincere in her views now. My point is that if Biden deserves bashing for what happened decades ago, how much more does Warren who registered and voted for Republicans during the same time period.

[liberalnarb]

46. Now THAT is disingenuous

[UniteFightBack]

71. I was being a little shit !!!!

[GreenPartyVoter]

14. I've been through bankruptcy once, and it looms large yet again. I like Joe,

but his part in that bill smarts.

[Baitball Blogger]

15. I will vote for Biden if he makes it through the primaries,

Last edited Fri Apr 26, 2019, 03:07 PM - Edit history (1)

but it will feel like scrubbing my face with gritty sandpaper. He has made so many bad decisions over the years. He exemplified the reason why it took me so long to become a Dem. If he becomes president, it will be solely because we have to come together to remove Trump. Nothing is more critically important.

[loyalsister]

35. We need to be able to talk about how we got here

Student loan debt, mass incarceration, war spending, the mess the Iraq war evolved into, deregulation, failure to address climate change, welfare "reform," and union busting policies are not something I want to see another presidential candidate defend.
Now, any discussion of those things is going to be interpreted as bashing rather than discussion of the source of damage that brought us to where we are now. Decades of marginal successes, valiant efforts, failures, and bad decisions brought us to this point where youth do not see a bright future for themselves.
It's a lot to ask of voters who are living with the fallout and others who see a dismal future to support a person who helped bring us here. It's time to step aside and let people who have plenty of time left work on it.

[Hortensis]

21. Much more informative, less biased article on Politico,

https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2019/03/12/biden-vs-warren-2020-democratic-primaries-bankruptcy-bill-225728

You know, back in the 1990s when California's real estate bubble collapsed, I started out agreeing mostly with Elizabeth about all the poor people losing their homes.

Of course, right at the beginning I had to admit that it wasn't fair to all the honest lenders (most of them) that the affluent people who owned most of the homes I was appraising then were just dishonorably walking away from their debts. Their equity had disappeared, so they decided to break their contracts to throw further losses onto the banks. Did I say "dishonorable?" So many did this that it shook my liberal faith in basic good nature.

That was nothing to the others!

Of those actually foreclosed on, over 90% of the borrowers severely vandalized their homes before vacating. Tearing out plumbing and electrical usual, peeing and shitting on the floors common, breaking windows, and on and on. I would have flat disbelieved it, known it for a lie -- if I hadn't seen it again and again and again.

It was such a huge, widespread problem that a new appraisal specialty developed to evaluate ruined properties, all paid for by the lenders of course. I hated the work and didn't contract with any of the specialty businesses. Also, the industry for cleaning out severely damaged properties exploded in size, large costs also paid for by the banks. Also restoration of buildings and landscapes, huge costs paid by the banks.

We've seen film of cleanouts on TV, people's belongings just tossed in dumpsters by callous, uncaring minimum-wage workers, and thought, oh, poor things. Rightly for the genuine poor victims of misfortune. But, others also often still owed debt on furniture and appliances as well. That type abandoned not just their belongings but their debt, victimizing all those who mistakenly did business with them.

We had friends who lost their homes, and yes, many decent, hardworking, honorable people who always paid their debts regrettably did when that bubble broke. But even such an idealistic liberal as me was forced to accept that borrowing beyond one's means was behavior most indulged by people who were anything but honorable and responsible. Yes, predatory lending existed in huge numbers, but an appalling portion of their customers turned out to be predatory borrowers as well.

Think all the Trumps who didn't inherit millions.

Also, it's important to note that the kind of people who'd leave a home uninhabitable out of enormous malice didn't just borrow from predatory lenders. People did, as well, who lived at every economic level, typically in mid and upper middle-class neighborhoods, and who borrowed from reputable lenders based on incomes they really did have. It was a personality thing. Trump types.

So. I agree with BOTH Biden and Warren. Sometimes people really do need to be able to put their debts behind them for both their personal good and that of society's, and we should help them for their and society's sake. Most of the time, though, people who can really need to be required to pay their debts --for everyone's sake. Even if we have to take them to court and threaten criminal action to make them do it.

[cannabis_flower]

25. Less biased? Really?

Do you really believe that all those owners vandalized the property they were walking away from? Most likely for a good number of them, after they walked away, the abandoned house was lived in by crackheads or squatters. Or the owners had rented out the property and had evicted their tenants and they had trashed it. I can't believe that 90% trashed the house themselves. I'm thinking the house probably sat vacant for months or even years before they got an appraiser over there, so many people were walking away.

[Hortensis]

34. Cannabis, that's not the article, it's MY experience,

meant to be commentary about this issue.

You better believe it happened. And other disillusioning behaviors I didn't mention.

Perspective is important, of course. I dealt with homeowners virtually every day, meeting new ones every day, and they were normal, decent people. Millions of homeowners in southern California always paid their mortgages even as the market crashed and never considered doing anything else. Many who lost their jobs made arrangements with their banks until they were able to resume payment. Those were their homes.

I never read a psychological profile of the others, disillusioned as I was, I never then and still do NOT believe the typical person would behave that way in that situation. What I do now believe is that a Venn diagram of those who knowingly borrow over their means and those trumpish vandals would show a significant overlap.

Btw, disappointing people eager to borrow over their means is a normal occurrence for appraisers.

But why not read the article so you know what their actual positions were, or at least have a somewhat better idea?

[cannabis_flower]

39. Sorry I read the article

I guess it's fair, I was mixing up your comments with the article. I guess you're the one I thought perhaps jumped to conclusions about the homeowner in some cases. Isn't it the case that some of these homes sat empty for some time before banks sent in appraisers? Isn't it possible that some of these houses were trashed by third parties? I know during that time period people were selling crack out of abandoned houses and using them as shooting galleries.

[Hortensis]

41. Yes, those things all happened too.

I was like you are now then, before all this. I would never have believed it if somebody had told me.

Many lost their homes because they lost their jobs and had no savings to carry themselves through. What differentiated these people seems to have included turning dishonest rage that this would happen to them on whoever held their mortgage, and probably “the establishment,” and no doubt the “they” and “them” who are always at fault, like they were the victims of the banks they’d gone to happily to borrow money.

But in any case, when people have the means to repay their debts, they should be required to. We all believe that, but I’m more hard-nosed on the subject now that I have a better understanding of just how many people will cheat on their debts, as Trump routinely does, if they become a problem.

[kcr]

32. Yes, an informative article that shows just how awful the bill is.

Why don't you cite that highly dubious claim that 90% of borrowers seriously vandalized their homes before vacating?

[KayF]

85. Warren went in the opposite direction

you said you started off agreeing with her and then after seeing it first hand, switched to being less supportive of bankruptcy. She says that she started off with your current attitude and switched after seeing how people were being victimized. In fact she says that's the reason she switched from Republican to Democrat.

[AlexSFCA]

27. Biden is spot on with his strategy

It seems his primary strategy will be focused on genera election and that in itself is his selling point to primary voters: forget about policies, the country/democracy itself is at stake; I am your best shot. Remember, you only got one shot at it, if trump wins - the country as we know it will no longer exist. As such, he will probably campaign as it is general election already from day one. And that means taking all kids of money, bot just small donors because trump will have billions to buy all media markets. You can’t compete with that by sticking to purity tests. There is only ONE goal in 2020: besting trump. Forget anything else - policies, money, corporations, etc. It will all come in play only if we win after 2020. It has precisely zero meaning right now and just damages us.

[BlueStater]

62. Don't ask me where I stand on anything until after you elect me.

That's great.

[UniteFightBack]

72. Rump also has big bank. n t