Cynthia Nixon attacks Joe Biden for calling Mike Pence a "decent man"

[Yosemito]

That's ok. Joe, if he runs, wants to be a uniter (Same as Obama) in order to attract moderates and differentiate himself from the more liberal primary opponents.
Recall that President Obama (Of whom almost all of us view favorably) said we are a kinder and gentler nation because of George HW Bush.

Below are links to Biden's comment, Nixon's tweet, and Obama's "very fine man" comment.

Link to tweet

Link to tweet

"Obama added: “We are surely a kinder and gentler nation because of you and we can’t thank you enough.” "
https://www.politico.com/blogs/politico44/2013/07/obama-praises-george-hw-bush-at-white-house-168382

[WeekiWater]

1. Biden is no Obama.

Biden has also attacked people’s character.

[Yosemito]

2. Didn't say he was

[CharleyDog]

3. THIS is why we don't need Biden now.

we are at a tipping point, republic and planet. Can we save our democratic republic? Will the wealthy continue to steal it all and prevent reforms? Can we stop extraction and mass extinction of species?

Remember, trying to appeal to Republicans for a common good did not work (for Obama), it DOES NOT WORK. Sadly, but realistically, bipartisan appeal is just foolish now for Democrats. Biden should have learned that at Obama's knee. His saying this crap shows he learned nothing, and is living in a fantasy-world government.

I would line up behind Biden if he said (in effect) - "Pence is as guilty as Trump. Pence was in on all the corruption, fraud, and is a traitor as well."

[lunatica]

37. Ditto here

I like Joe Biden. But for Jill I would love to date him, but he’s behind the times. Something very fundamentsl has changed in politics. The old paradigm simply doesn’t exist anymore.

I don’t know what has taken its place, maybe it’s just too soon to tell. But the old moderate Democrat is a thing of the past. Maybe it’s also the same for any moderate Republican.

[namahage]

4. HW Bush, not W. n/t

[Yosemito]

5. HW was anti-LGBT

as well.
https://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/us_5c0366ffe4b0606a15b5efa7

[radius777]

6. Pence is "decent" on a superficial level

ie in terms of personal interaction and manners, especially compared to Trump.

Biden is just trying to sound bipartisan and congenial.

But don't understimate Biden's ability to turn around and attack policies he disagrees with, he's no fool and has been at this game for a lifetime.

[radical noodle]

44. Pence is never decent

He acts decent, he pretends to be decent.

[TheCowsCameHome]

7. Pence is not a decent guy.

I'm sorry to hear Biden say that.

In some ways Pence is more dangerous than Trump.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

86. Yes, very disappointed in Joe for saying that.

Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!

[CrossingTheRubicon]

8. A lot of pearl clutching because Joe Biden respects the dignity of the office in public.

Biden wins on character and in setting a good example of adult behavior.

This makes him someone who is a winner.

He will take it to Trump/Pense in appropriate venues and destroy them. No one is more poised to defeat Trump/Pense that a ticket lead by Joe Biden.

Let's be strategic.

We are not electing a Twitter-warrior.

[still_one]

9. I couldn't agree more. Everything you said is right on. I am more and more convinced with so

many candidates running, many duplicating the same views on the issues, they are going to kill off each other and that will increase the odds for a brokered convention, and contrary to what some may think, a brokered convention is NOT a good thing.

I changing my candidate preference to Biden. I believe he is the only one who can prevent a brokered Convention.

[Docreed2003]

57. +1

[WheelWalker]

61. +1

I couldn't agree with you more.

[Raine]

85. Exactly nt

[crazycatlady]

10. The two of them have probably had a lot of interactions

And maybe they do get along as people.

Michelle Obama is very close to George W. Bush. Does that make her a bad person?

[namahage]

16. Depends.

Is she running for President against your preferred choice?

[crazycatlady]

19. I'm undecided as of now

But people can be friends if their politics don't agree. Joe Biden (or anyone else for that matter) should not be bashed because their friendships aren't on party lines.

[comradebillyboy]

11. I have to agree with Cynthia on this one.

[ZeroSomeBrains]

12. A lot of people have been hurt by Pence's anti-gay rhetoric

Let's remember that Pence has been for gay conversion therapy. That discredited pseudo-science is responsible for a lot of deaths by members of the LGBT community. Let's not view the current VP under rose-colored glasses.

[Devil Child]

13. Cynthia Nixon would be better served directing her ire towards Pence.

To refuse consideration of Biden as a candidate for this statement is beyond stupid IMO.

[elleng]

28. YES, D C, but it appears to have worked, around here anyway.

[Devil Child]

39. Unfortunately so

Sometimes feels like some pro-wrestling free for all with the infighting.

[elleng]

40. Sure as hell does.

[R B Garr]

14. Context is important: Biden was referencing Pence introducing Trump at the Munich

Security Conference when Pence said, "I'm here on behalf of President Trump" and was met with dead silence. Biden barely uttered that comment about Pence in passing to show how even his VP was shunned. That council would not necessarily know or care about Cynthia Nixon badmouthing all kinds of Democrats and losing an election in New York, or about any LGBT issues -- Pence's audience was world leaders and Pence was shunned. Biden was talking about a stunning lack of presidential leadership.

This is in OMAHA, where Biden is speaking at Chuck Hagel's Global Leadership Council. Biden is knocking it out of the park. No one can match him on foreign relations. I'll try to find the link to his speech.

[bigtree]

18. so he's schmoozing with republicans (and others) at a republican-sponsored event

...sucking up to Pence.

Good stuff before considering asking for our vote for president.

During the Bush administration, Hagel maintained a "traditionally Republican" voting record, receiving "a lifetime rating of 84 percent from the American Conservative Union and consistent A and B grades from the National Taxpayers Union." On the Issues describes Hagel as a "libertarian-leaning conservative." According to Boaz, among his most notable votes, Hagel:

Voted for the Patriot Act;
Voted for the 2001 and 2003 tax cuts;
Voted against No Child Left Behind;
Voted against Bush's Medicare prescription drug bill;
Voted against McCain-Feingold.

Voted for the IWR.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chuck_Hagel

[R B Garr]

20. Biden was at a foreign relations conference attacking a

GOP president in a red state. He traveled with Hagel on the Senate Foreign Relations Committee. He wasn’t promoting Hagels voting record, LOL, how absurd to post Hagel’s votes.

[bigtree]

21. it's absurd, all right.

..the man wants the Dem nom and he's spending time being all 'bipartisan' on the apparent eve of running for the Democratic nomination.

Not my flavor in this primary.

[R B Garr]

23. Uh huh. Good to see you are against GOP presidents

being attacked in red states.

[bigtree]

24. ooh, projection!

...score!

[R B Garr]

25. You tried to put a phony context into something that

wasn’t even going on. Hagel’s votes?! Wtf

I’d rather see Republicans attacked instead of Democrats in this primary. Sick of it.

[CrossingTheRubicon]

34. Some folks seem more interested in attacking Democrats than Republicans.

It seems like the raison d'être for the so-called "Justice Democrat" organization.

[R B Garr]

35. Exactly, and now even attacking Democrats who are out

attacking Republicans.

Cynthia Nixon accused Cuomo of corruption and seems to be very invested along the lines of those like Justice Democrats who attack Democrats. I bet there will be lots of amplification taken out of context going forward.

[CrossingTheRubicon]

36. Cynthia Nixon was endorsed in that race by the so-called "Justice Democrats."

I can't say I'm sorry that she was trounced.

[R B Garr]

38. Thanks for confirming that. I thought I remembered that but

didn’t bother to look it up again. This explains a lot with how they operate. It’s rather disingenuous of them to ignore the chauvinist Republican founder of Justice Democrats while expecting purity from Democrats.

[bigtree]

46. lol

...you've been here a hot minute, and the first post to me was an 'attack' on Kamala Harris.

It's like you've been here forever.

[CrossingTheRubicon]

49. "Attack?" LOL.

I'm a big fan of Kamala Harris. At this point, I think there is a very good chance she will be on the ticket. I'd be happy with that.

She'd be better off not making promises that are contingent on flipping 19 of the 23 GOP Senate seats as a priority item if she wants to be taken seriously. Plus winning 2/3 of the House.

You keep making false accusations on violation of the board rules.

Time to figure out the ignore feature, if there is one.

[bigtree]

55. "fan of Kamala Harris"

...the fuck

[bigtree]

47. If Biden wants to campaign as a moderate he's going to get pushback

..from what is a very progressive field of declared candidates.

I suspect that's his intention. Come in posturing as a pragmatist, ridiculing progressives as his supporters already are, attacking progressive candidates with terms like 'overreach,' working as your buddy on this thread did to associate progressives with some ridiculous organization or the other.

Don't pretend to me that you are against attacking Democrats in this primary. That's the biggest fucking lie. I don't think you have any problem at all railing against me like you hold the lock on Democratic principle and wisdom, so don't come crying to me about attacks on Democrats. You act as if progressives are some splinter in the party.

I've got news for you, we're more relevant than Chuck Hagel.

[R B Garr]

52. You are really out on a limb here, lol. I can't keep up with

all this contrived bullshit. Who cares about Hagel, Biden wasn’t there to promote Hagel, who cares about Hagel’s votes. LOL, what an absurd distraction.

Omaha is a red state. Biden was attacking a GOP president in a red state. That’s much better than attacking Democrats. It will always be that way. It’s better to attack Republicans. Thanks to VP Biden for attacking a GOP president in a red state.

You seem a bit out of control here in your personal projections and your out of place cussing at me which is frankly bizarre. I’m going to keep my focus on the Mueller indictments for the info some folks like to ignore: Russia helped 3 campaigns to attack our Democratic candidate in 2016: Stein, Sanders, Trump. Those sustained attacks on our Democratic nominee only got us Trump. No thanks.

[bigtree]

58. you mention Russia

...then claim attacks on the nominee 'got us Trump.'

Make up your mind. Was the election stolen?

Or was it someone saying something mean about our nominee at DU that turned the tide against us?

I hope that's not too 'unhinged' for you.

[R B Garr]

62. You aren't even making sense.

[bigtree]

65. you still here?

...what the hell were we talking about anyway?

Oh, yeah. Biden and his (good republican) friend. His overseas traveling buddy during his Senate Foreign Relations Committee days.

Not surprised he sweated Pence while he was there. Goes with the territory.

Sticking around, or can I get on with my day?

[R B Garr]

67. Biden was in a red state attacking a GOP president.

That literally is the goal. Biden wasn’t there to campaign for Hagel. So what if two Senators used to work together, LOL. How absurdly irrelevant.

[bigtree]

69. irrelevant to you

...what I'd note is Biden's lack of growth outside of his circle of 90's era foreign policy relationships.

Biden has always been a foreign policy hawk. It's never been a comfort to me that he's a bipartisan hawk on foreign policy.

Criticizing Trump on foreign policy isn't hard. I just saw a right wing hack do it on teevee.

What I want to see from Biden is an approach to the world that isn't mired in the past. I don't want new military commitments, nor do I want unnecessarily impassioned reinforcements of existing ones.

I want to see a commitment against new nuclear weapons, and against any new deployments in Europe.

I want to know his policy on getting our military out of the Sudan, out of Yemen, out of Afghanistan, out of Syria, out of (amazing to say) Iraq.

[R B Garr]

71. You sound very mired yourself.

It’s hard to take these complaints about Senators knowing each other seriously. Only on the internet can people make bizarre behavior demands where politicians have to be openly hostile to someone they know just to appease some purity standards. Biden knows a lot of people, so what.

Edit: Biden was just over in Germany for the conference referenced in his speech—very current.

[bigtree]

73. this is the weakness of this forum

...I'm an individual. I'm not playing a game, I'm expressing my opinion, my view, my perspective.

I don't expect you to agree with me, but I don't come to the political process just to parry around with DUers (even though it's a blast). I have interests and concerns which brought me to DU, to the internet, for that matter, in 2004, right as the Iraq invasion was breaking. I was desperate to lend a hand in stopping that invasion, and later the occupation. I wrote over 360 articles for an internet site. I hosted a website for returning soldiers. I protested, advocated, and prayed.

That's the lens that I view Biden and Hagel through. I'm not going to judge you for not sharing my perspective, but I still (naively most times) expect for my own liberal views to find support here.

I also have other priorities that really don't apply here. I'm looking for recognition from the candidates for those as well.

But mired? Ha! Not quite, Barr. (no Biden mug at the bottom of MY post) I'm here to support what I believe in, outside of the horse race. Our primary is the place to expect recognition and accountability from these candidates, and that's what I intend to pursue.

The thing you said about, "bizarre behavior demands where politicians have to be openly hostile to someone they know just to appease some purity standards."

That's an obvious dodge. If you disagree, fine, but you're just satisfying yourself in that exchange that you're just fine and dandy in ridiculing me. I mean at some point, you have to be insulting your OWN intelligence.

[R B Garr]

74. It wasn't a dodge. The purity standards are tiresome

and counter productive. Who cares about Hagel. Iraq is/was horrible, but it never would have been if there weren’t purity standards over Gore.

Biden was just in Germany at the same meeting Pence was attending, so your observation about his old ties is wrong, which makes it seem mired in the same old tired anti-Establishment distractions that often don’t ring true.

[bigtree]

75. it's just a cutsie insult

...if it's not in your playbook, it's a 'purity standard.'

You're not fooling anyone. It's a dodge, pure and simple. Like I said, whether you're prepared for it, or not, people like me (the reason I took pains describing my motives) will come to this process looking for these politicians to address their particular concerns. That may well be bothersome to you, but you don't rule our worlds. Get a grip on that.

You're incredibly out of touch if you believe most voters are thinking about the details of what we discuss here to the point where talking on DU is 'counterproductive' to the election. DU isn't some sort of remote control to the campaigns.

It's a discussion board, and if you're not prepared for people to object to your candidate without labeling them as 'purists' and the like when you disagree with them, then you are perhaps the irksome thing here you say you abhor.

[R B Garr]

76. The purity standards are well-known and frankly your

personal projections are getting more and more bizarre.

[bigtree]

78. 'bizarre' 'purity'

...ridicule is a poor political strategy.

It's an even more bereft DU debating tactic.

I'm not a party, I'm not even a candidate. Ultimately, essentially, I'm just a voter.

And you're steady fucking with me for expressing my opinion.

Inspiring.

[R B Garr]

79. LOL! Seriously? Look at how much you have written

about me personally, all coming from your own mind. Wow

[bigtree]

80. something tells me you'll get over it

...I'll light a candle.

Aww, go ahead and lob one more of those ridicule bombs of yours over the transom, I'll get out of your way.

[R B Garr]

83. More bizarre projections.

[elleng]

29. THANKS, R B.

Context is usually important, but that nuance is often missed by people, as it seems to have done here.

[R B Garr]

30. And thank you for that, elleng.

I see there is another thread about Biden “walking back” his comment, when he was really just explaining the foreign policy context that the critics totally missed.

Thanks again.

[elleng]

32. Yes, I noticed that.

'Walking back' = explaining.

[oasis]

15. Biden v Pence in 2020 is a real possibility. What then Cynthia?

Will America again be victimized by the "lesser of two evils" bull that delivered Trump the presidency?

Make up your minds purists.

[Dawson Leery]

17. Pence is a typical Post-Nixon/Pre-Trump Republican.

That is, he hides is bigotry behind the dark cloak of morality.

[workinclasszero]

22. Wow! Joe called Pence a decent guy!?

Yikes!

Pence is a POS in my book. A world class liar like his boss, who wants to force America into a hellish theocracy that most defiantly would persecute gay folks to the max, not to mention democrats in general.

Pence is faaaar from a decent man!

[Eugene]

26. Biden walks back praise for Pence following criticism

Source: Associated Press

Biden walks back praise for Pence following criticism

By THOMAS BEAUMONT
February 28, 2019

OMAHA, Neb. (AP) — Former Vice President Joe Biden’s tendency to talk about his good relationships with Republicans landed him in trouble Thursday when he called his successor, Mike Pence, a “decent guy.”

The comment was quickly criticized by fellow Democrats, including actress and activist Cynthia Nixon, who tweeted that Biden had complimented “America’s most anti-LGBT elected leader,” forcing Biden to walk back his comment.

“You’re right, Cynthia. I was making a point in a foreign policy context, that under normal circumstances a Vice President wouldn’t be given a silent reaction on the world stage,” Biden tweeted. “But there is nothing decent about being anti-LGBTQ rights, and that includes the Vice President.”

The episode shows one of the challenges the 76-year-old Biden will face as he considers a run for the presidency. In promoting his relationships with Republicans in a way that might appeal to general election voters, Biden also risks alienating the Democrats he would need to win a primary.

-snip-

Read more: https://apnews.com/5cf1669d9bb74809ab94707f9f11b38c

[RandySF]

27. Cynthia who?

[R B Garr]

31. The New York actress candidate who badmouthed Cuomo

and lost bigly.

[Devil Child]

41. Exactly, Cynthia who...

I see this as a blatant shit-stirring attempt by media to feed their never-ending "DEMOCRATS IN DISARRAY" narrative.

[crazycatlady]

63. Miranda on Sex and the City

[Trenzalore]

33. 20 years ago

At least publicly Pence and Biden had very similar views on LGBTQ rights. Biden voted for DOMA.

He evolved much better on the issue but 20 years ago they were in the same place.

[Maru Kitteh]

42. So now asking someone to "please consider" something is an attack?

Jeebus.

The media MUST have their drama, musn't they.

[madville]

43. People on the left attacking Biden will help him gain more moderate support

The left space is crowded and no one significant is playing to the middle, there is a huge void the Biden's candidacy is going to fill.

[bigtree]

48. there are Democrats who feel they're under attack when they hear the former VP praising Pence

...in whatever context.

Those are the folks who deserve praise and support, not Pence. I think Biden acknowledged that today with his 'walkback' of his remarks.

People always forget that most voters don't come to the election looking to be part of a campaign team. They bring their particular interests and concerns to the process and hope they get represented by one of these candidates. You lose a great deal of context to their lives when you reduce them to merely part of a horse race, rather than individuals looking to make a difference in their lives by participating.

If Biden wants to fill the 'void' between their aspirations and what should be no man's land for Democrats, he's more than welcome. But it's not a profile in courage to leave Democrats unrepresented while courting people who really don't believe in progressive changes that many desperately want, need, and deserve.

[CrossingTheRubicon]

50. It is all in your head.

[ucrdem]

45. Someone named Nixon is attacking Joe Biden.

Plus ça change.

[Orangepeel]

51. Is that all she said? That's not an attack. It's an appropriate comment

Biden: Pence is a decent guy
Nixon: actually, he’s anti LGBT
Biden (subsequent story): you’re right. I was referring to foreign policy. There’s nothing decent about being anti LGBT

Would that all Twitter interactions were like this. But, clickbait websites have to make it an attack (and then say that Biden walked back his comments). It wasn’t even a slow news day!

[tymorial]

53. I see that we're going to need the fainting couches

And lest anyone accuse me of being inconsiderate of the lgbtq+ community, its my community too.

[zaj]

54. This is leadership. We need to act with civility...

... even when the people are angry.

Civility like this what makes the Senate place where both sides can find common ground.

Cinthia Nixon, anyone with a platform, all of us... If we want to protect Democracy, we have to live with the double burden of having to fight authoritarias, and protect the culture that allows Democracy to thrive.

Civility is essential.

[Evergreen Emerald]

56. She did not "attack" him

She disagreed with his characterization of Pence.

[CrossingTheRubicon]

59. Sure sounds like an attack to me.

With a Democrat, once again, as the target.

[Evergreen Emerald]

60. So disagreeing is now considered an attack?

[Hortensis]

64. Biden behaves as was once normal for gentlemen in politics,

Last edited Fri Mar 1, 2019, 12:45 PM - Edit history (1)

in the days of functional government where the parties routinely worked across the aisle and socialized with each other as part of their work. No one should mistake courtesy and determination to work with opponents to reach common goals -- if possible -- for weakness or lack of principle.

By the standards of the New Deal era that ended in the 1980s and those of this new era, what Democrats did to try to not lose their offices to Republicans entirely during our nation's dark conservative retreat of the 1980s-1990s doesn't look good.

In those days, though, the Democratic Party was so weakened and rejected by majorities of voters that many experts said it was dying. That the age of liberalism and progressivism was OVER. Well, we didn't die, but the American electorate in shifting right and becoming more conservative, including many on the left who wanted a retrenching to a mostly fictional past, did make us increasingly unable to protect the liberal and progressive government we had created.

Biden was senator in the middle of that battle and played a role in some things we all regret now, but back then he and other survivors in office were able to save all the New Deal and most of liberalism's civil rights advances, all of which the Republicans fully intended to destroy. Our Democrats even managed some genuine advances and overall were able to block most of the damage and return to pre-Constitution thinking that the Republicans were (and are) determined on.

And now Biden and the rest have been operating in a very different environment, one empowered by increasing strengthening of many once-wobbly/sometimes-Democratic voters, who have seen what conservatism has brought over the past 40 years, and increasingly threatens, and have rediscovered they want the blessings of liberalism after all, and of the progressivism in government that is intrinsic to it.

"As Justice Brandeis said, 'We may have democracy, or we may have wealth concentrated in the hands of a few, but we can’t have both.' We must end that injustice and restore the public’s faith in a better future for themselves and their children.' ~ Nancy Pelosi speaking to the nation

[Act_of_Reparation]

68. Those days ended some forty fucking years ago.

LGBT voters are reliably Democratic, Mike Pence supporters aren't. None of these excuses make sense. How about we get with the program?

[Hortensis]

70. The "divided we fall" program? No.

We have to rebuild functional, working majorities among the electorate and in government.

Or our broken democracy will be replaced with a right-wing autocracy. With other fallen democracies are an example, probably initially with a fake democratic front but ruled by a partnership of business, white nationalist and theocratic power blocs. Until one takes over and kills off the others, of course.

We now know it can happen here, and will if we can't stop it.

[Act_of_Reparation]

72. lolwut

The "divided we fall" program? What is this cracker-jack league claptrap which you speak?

[Hortensis]

81. :) Discuss primary preferences and dislikes, but

maybe reserve angry passion for the right? They're ones who are knowingly supporting a government which kidnaps and abuses children BECAUSE it is intensely cruel, currently limited mostly to immigrants only because they don't have the power to persecute (white) citizens yet.

So Biden speaks courteously to right-wing colleagues and has a genuine record of being, in some cases, unacceptably accommodating with the right in the past. Consequences of which we're all having to live with.

Fwiw, Obama came to think very highly of him, so that makes me think Biden must have grown at somewhat tougher and wiser since the 1990s. Becoming less of a too-agreeable marshmallow as the people across the aisle were increasingly replaced with fascist-leaning traitors would not be a strange thing.

[Act_of_Reparation]

84. A specious proposition, I feel.

What is a "passionately angry" response? What is the objectively appropriate response in a situation such as this?

I'm not sure these terms are useful, practically speaking. I'm not mad at Joe Biden. I'm not angry. I don't dislike Joe Biden. Joe Biden the person seems like a decent guy. But Joe Biden the politician made a boneheaded gaffe, and just because he's on my team doesn't mean he's beyond reproach. FWIW, Biden immediately realized he'd gaffed and apologized, which I think was the right move.

Also, this is Joe Biden we're talking about here. No matter how dear to us he might be, we can't deny that he's been a walking gaffe machine for the past twenty or so years at the very least. This isn't the first time his mouth has made trouble for him and I doubt it is going to be the last. Still, he's made it this far. I don't think we need to worry about people "attacking" him.

[Gothmog]

66. Joe is a good man and I would likely support him if he runs

[Faux pas]

77. Joe, Joe, Joe

your missed your chance, sorry.

[Miles Archer]

82. Pence is not a player

God may have told Pence that it was his destiny to be president, but we'll see.

Biden calling Pence "a decent guy" diffuses any kind of adversarial dynamic between the two.

I don't see the remark as an endorsement of Pence's beliefs or behavior.

I see it as Joe taking Pence out of the equation.

But that's just me. And as I have said, I will endorse the final Democratic candidate, but today, Joe is my first choice.