this discussion always starts the same way:

- OP that wants to reduce gun violence and offers suggestions
- gun lovers pick through the post and identify places they can ask for more information, why offering platidudes of how there is no evidence that gun control reduces gun violence (with no evidence ironically, or selected evidence)
- personal attacks - e.g. you don't understand history, i'm a historian see, so anything i say is right
- logic similar to 'there is no proof that human activities contribute to climate change' are offered
- eventually the discussion goes to the 2nd amendment gives me the right to arms 'not infringed' ignroing the 'well-regulated militia' clause

You're right, anyone in these threads have or should have seen the comments. You shouldn't need to spend your time finding and restating what's already been said in order to express an opinion.

Legalizing and taxing weed would solve many problems:

1. another source of revenue for States
2. a cure for many diseases
3. many people will vote for Democrats if Obama does not fight the will of the States moving in this direction. This will create for Democratic victories for years to come.

4. resources wasted on fighting the will of many people who use Weed properly can be diverted to fighting the real threat that is emerging - voter suppression in key States such as Florida

5. drug decriminalization will reduce drug crime (as happened after prohibition ended).

to the tax code, which the repugs take away when they get into power.

also, the rich pay more, but earn more under Democratic Presidents. This balance works in everyone's favor.

better to protect democracy through:
1. the ballot box
2. education - every important because an educated poplulation will vote for the betterment of the country
3. no single issue voting
4. don't let yourself be seduced by those using your fears to further their own interests (usually economic, or bigotry).


But, good luck with the knee-jerk responses that violate point 2, 3, and 4 above.

MSNBC and Fox are nothing alike. Fox tells half truths, lies, and propaganda. They don't report anything that doesn't fit their repug, right-wing agenda, or try to corrupt it. For example, when Osama Bin Laden was killed, there were no praises for the President's decision making (Bush would have been put on a 100 foot pedistal). Instead they tried to belittle it and were openly consoling each other on tv because it was not possible to belittle it.

MSNBC takes a progressive view with passion and honesty. They don't use the CNN spin 'they all do it so it must be okay' crap. Fox punches most of America in the face, repeatedly. If MSNBC blocks the punch with facts and passion, the repugs and rightests howl that MSNBC raised their hand so they're all exactly the same.

No they're not.

I used to watch Celebrity Apprentice, and i've bought other Trump items in the past. No more. With his vendetta against the President, trump's twitter messages after the election (silence with the news that Democrats had more votes in the House yet less seats), his birther theories, his son's killing of a big cat in a foreign country, trump's love affair with the repug party, i'm done giving him any of my money.

i'm not spending or doing anything that will further enrich trump.

1. exhibit nothing but crocodile tears with little or no empathy

2. show more concern for their guns than the slaughtered victims

3. here is the key
- focus on one non-essential fact and try to refute it using circulator non-sense arguments. Feel like they've made a point when they really haven't
- condescending name calling and crying when the name calling is returned
- when their arguments fail, argue that the 2nd amendment gives them complete freedom over everything gun related

lots of information about evolution of the assault rifle and the ammunication at the link:

http://www.quarry.nildram.co.uk/Assault.htm

It's clear that the killing efficiency of guns is going up over time much as the computing power of PCs.

I think a deal at this stage will not be a good thing for us. The repugs, as always, create crap to hinder the economy and the middle class. They should be made to face the public with this.

President Obama should put the original election time deal on the table, e.g. tax increases above $250k, no cuts to social security, medicare, Obamacare, and extension of the unemployment benefits. If the repugs accept, great maybe they've seen some reality, otherwise come back in January with this plan and retroactive provisions to give back to the middle class. The midterm elections should be fought on this.

but this is the tactic of gun lover's - attack the words and challenge the right of someone to express an opinion.

i'm used to it in the gungeon. normally i don't waste my time - as i've said - it's about money, power, and votes. Convincing the few is impossible and irrelevant.

however, i am expressing my opinion because of the sorrow i feel towards those who have been massacred by guns and the imbeciles who used them to kill innocent people. I am touched by the teachers and principal who gave their lives to protect other kids. Those are the heroes. In their memory, i am at least trying to find ways to cut gun violence.