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Catherina
Catherina's Journal
Catherina's Journal
March 30, 2014
+1 Gorbachev should have consulted with the native Americans who got the same kind of promises
The faux surprise is too laughable.
NATO wants a theatre of war for its troops. Russia is being surrounded by missile sites so who in their right mind could expect Russia to stand back and see the Crimea and the warm water port fall into NATO hands.
Please correct me if I am wrong. In 1959, there was a revolution on a small island to the south of Florida that's close enough to our borders but quite a bit further than the distance from Ukraine to Russia. It was an indigenous revolt without foreign aid against a brutal dictator who was the best forever friend of the US elite.
There was no American minority community threatened by the Cuban revolution. Correct me if I am wrong but didn't the US arm and sponsor and logistically and financially and militarily support an armed invasion of Cuba? Didn't the US impose an embargo which has lasted 65 years even though Cuba has never threatened America or Americans? Wasn't there a UN vote 188 to 2 (US and Israel opposing) calling for an end to this economic war against Cuba?
The faux surprise and neo indignation leaves me colder than an ice cube.
No one in Russia can vent his anger over NATO's eastward expansion quite as vehemently as Viktor Baranez. The popular columnist with the tabloid Komsomolskaya Pravda ("Komsomol Truth"
, which has a readership of millions, is fond of railing against the "insidious and reckless" Western military alliance. Russia, Baranez writes, must finally stop treating NATO as a partner.
Baranez, a retired colonel who was the Defense Ministry's spokesman under former Russian President Boris Yeltsin, asks why Russia should even consider joint maneuvers after being deceived by the West. NATO, he writes, "has pushed its way right up to our national borders with its guns." He also argues that, in doing so, NATO has broken all the promises it made during the process of German reunification.
...
In an interview with SPIEGEL at his residence outside Moscow in early November, President Dmitry Medvedev complained that when the Berlin Wall came down, it had "not been possible to redefine Russia's place in Europe." What did Russia get? "None of the things that we were assured, namely that NATO would not expand endlessly eastwards and our interests would be continuously taken into consideration," Medvedev said.
...
On Feb. 10, 1990, between 4 and 6:30 p.m., Genscher spoke with Shevardnadze. According to the German record of the conversation, which was only recently declassified, Genscher said: "We are aware that NATO membership for a unified Germany raises complicated questions. For us, however, one thing is certain: NATO will not expand to the east." And because the conversion revolved mainly around East Germany, Genscher added explicitly: "As far as the non-expansion of NATO is concerned, this also applies in general."
...
http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/nato-s-eastward-expansion-did-the-west-break-its-promise-to-moscow-a-663315.html
, which has a readership of millions, is fond of railing against the "insidious and reckless" Western military alliance. Russia, Baranez writes, must finally stop treating NATO as a partner.
Baranez, a retired colonel who was the Defense Ministry's spokesman under former Russian President Boris Yeltsin, asks why Russia should even consider joint maneuvers after being deceived by the West. NATO, he writes, "has pushed its way right up to our national borders with its guns." He also argues that, in doing so, NATO has broken all the promises it made during the process of German reunification.
...
In an interview with SPIEGEL at his residence outside Moscow in early November, President Dmitry Medvedev complained that when the Berlin Wall came down, it had "not been possible to redefine Russia's place in Europe." What did Russia get? "None of the things that we were assured, namely that NATO would not expand endlessly eastwards and our interests would be continuously taken into consideration," Medvedev said.
...
On Feb. 10, 1990, between 4 and 6:30 p.m., Genscher spoke with Shevardnadze. According to the German record of the conversation, which was only recently declassified, Genscher said: "We are aware that NATO membership for a unified Germany raises complicated questions. For us, however, one thing is certain: NATO will not expand to the east." And because the conversion revolved mainly around East Germany, Genscher added explicitly: "As far as the non-expansion of NATO is concerned, this also applies in general."
...
http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/nato-s-eastward-expansion-did-the-west-break-its-promise-to-moscow-a-663315.html
From Spiegel Online, dated November 26, 2009: http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/nato-s-eastward-expansion-did-the-west-break-its-promise-to-moscow-a-663315-2.html
What the US secretary of state said on Feb. 9, 1990 in the magnificent St. Catherine’s Hall at the Kremlin is beyond dispute. There would be, in (James) Baker’s words, “no extension of NATO’s jurisdiction for forces of NATO one inch to the east,” provided the Soviets agreed to the NATO membership of a unified Germany. Moscow would think about it, Gorbachev said, but added: “any extension of the zone of NATO is unacceptable.”
Now, 20 years later, Gorbachev is still outraged when he is asked about this episode. "One cannot depend on American politicians," he told SPIEGEL. Baker, for his part, now offers a different interpretation of what he said in 1990, arguing that he was merely referring to East Germany, which was to be given a special status in the alliance -- nothing more.
What the US secretary of state said on Feb. 9, 1990 in the magnificent St. Catherine’s Hall at the Kremlin is beyond dispute. There would be, in (James) Baker’s words, “no extension of NATO’s jurisdiction for forces of NATO one inch to the east,” provided the Soviets agreed to the NATO membership of a unified Germany. Moscow would think about it, Gorbachev said, but added: “any extension of the zone of NATO is unacceptable.”
Now, 20 years later, Gorbachev is still outraged when he is asked about this episode. "One cannot depend on American politicians," he told SPIEGEL. Baker, for his part, now offers a different interpretation of what he said in 1990, arguing that he was merely referring to East Germany, which was to be given a special status in the alliance -- nothing more.
March 29, 2014
How cute. A little lapdog destroying the very freedoms we're apparently trying to bestow upon the poor Syrian people.
The NYT. Decent report lacking details though
Recordings, Posted Online, Rattle Officials in Turkey
By TIM ARANGO
March 27, 2014
ISTANBUL — If any meeting was meant to be private, it was this one: the top spy chief, the foreign minister and his deputy, and a top military official discussing secret plans for possible military action in Syria.
But in Turkey little, it seems, is beyond the skills of those who have been wiretapping and bugging the conversations of high-level officials and releasing the recordings on social media.
On Thursday morning, a recording was posted on YouTube in which the officials were heard discussing a plot to establish a justification for military strikes in Syria. One option that is said to have been discussed was orchestrating an attack on the Tomb of Suleyman Shah, the grandfather of the founder of the Ottoman Empire, which is in northern Syria and is considered by the government here to be Turkish territory.
By Thursday afternoon, the Foreign Ministry building in Ankara, Turkey’s capital — where the secret meeting was held — was being swept for surreptitious listening devices, and the government had moved to block access to YouTube, just a week after a similar ban on Twitter, which has also been a conduit for the leaking of documents and telephone conversations.
The government, citing national security concerns, also banned news coverage of the contents of the meeting, and officials have suggested that a broader crackdown on the Internet may be coming.
...
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/03/28/world/europe/high-level-leaks-rattle-turkey-officials.html
By TIM ARANGO
March 27, 2014
ISTANBUL — If any meeting was meant to be private, it was this one: the top spy chief, the foreign minister and his deputy, and a top military official discussing secret plans for possible military action in Syria.
But in Turkey little, it seems, is beyond the skills of those who have been wiretapping and bugging the conversations of high-level officials and releasing the recordings on social media.
On Thursday morning, a recording was posted on YouTube in which the officials were heard discussing a plot to establish a justification for military strikes in Syria. One option that is said to have been discussed was orchestrating an attack on the Tomb of Suleyman Shah, the grandfather of the founder of the Ottoman Empire, which is in northern Syria and is considered by the government here to be Turkish territory.
By Thursday afternoon, the Foreign Ministry building in Ankara, Turkey’s capital — where the secret meeting was held — was being swept for surreptitious listening devices, and the government had moved to block access to YouTube, just a week after a similar ban on Twitter, which has also been a conduit for the leaking of documents and telephone conversations.
The government, citing national security concerns, also banned news coverage of the contents of the meeting, and officials have suggested that a broader crackdown on the Internet may be coming.
...
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/03/28/world/europe/high-level-leaks-rattle-turkey-officials.html
How cute. A little lapdog destroying the very freedoms we're apparently trying to bestow upon the poor Syrian people.
March 29, 2014
Transcript here: http://www.state.gov/p/eur/rls/rm/2013/nov/217560.htm (Transatlantic Renaissance, TTIP, energy, Russia, "LNG terminals, new pipelines and interconnectors, shale gas and nuclear power", "historic moment for Ukraine, Moldova, and Georgia", grab a barf bag if you listen)
That was one of their goals but I'm not letting neolibs off the hook
The neocons have plenty of help on this one.
Kerry and Obama promoted Victoria Nuland to Assistant Secretary of State after Hillary brought her in to the State Department as a spokeswoman in 2011. Obama appointed Nuland's husband, PNAC co-founder Robert Kagan, to the State Department's Foreign Affairs Policy Board. You can see Kagan's happy, smiling face here: http://www.state.gov/s/p/fapb/185585.htm I watched the video of Vicktoria's appointment to Asst Sec in 2013. Her whole PNAC family was there, even good old Fred Kagan who's working at the American Enterprise Institute, they guy who wrote the 2007 "surge" for Bush.
WHY?
Transcript here: http://www.state.gov/p/eur/rls/rm/2013/nov/217560.htm (Transatlantic Renaissance, TTIP, energy, Russia, "LNG terminals, new pipelines and interconnectors, shale gas and nuclear power", "historic moment for Ukraine, Moldova, and Georgia", grab a barf bag if you listen)
March 29, 2014
Of course all the NATO countries are going to report this as "YouTube ban", nothing-to-see-here, just-Erdogan-being-a-dick before the elections, move on...
See the last 2 excerpts in post 3 and this excerpt
I'm not naive. I think I'm rather cynical but that shocked me. Post 3. I literally found that moments ago and am still reading it, barely beginning to:
SEVENTH SCREEN:
Feridun Sinirlioğlu: We have done these before, these can be done of course. We can make it done,
Hakan Fidan: I mean, if we are ready to use that thing, in correct time and place, let us do it with a purpose determined by us.
Ahmet Davutoğlu: Hakan, as you said, if what you mean is a lack of strategy in fabricating a justification, you are right. Against these men…
An officer: Sir, without that happening-
Ahmet Davutoğlu: Yes, we will pass on to that okay take it and I am coming. You cannot say to the US Secretary of State, "we need to take strong measures."
Hakan Fidan: Well, sir, what I am saying is-
Ahmet Davutoğlu: Then he will say, you did not even defend your own land. We had many friendly conversations, mostly with Kerry and he told me exactly this, did you decide to strike and …
EIGHT SCREEN:
Yaşar Güler: Sir, we did, we did a hundred times. With US…
Feridun Sinirlioğlu: Well, look, three days ago, a thing happened at the office of General Chief of Staff, this thing came up and they had a coordination meeting. I see that for the first time. The Americans-
Yaşar Güler: No, we do it regularly!
Feridun Sinirlioğlu: No, no.. The Americans in that meeting distributed the plans for the No Fly Zone. For the first time. Do you know that?
Hakan Fidan: Hmm, what I underline is, sir, if we are going to take such an important decision for this sort of reason, Sulayman Sah Tomb, if we are ready to take this decision
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2014/03/27/1287823/-Updated-Turkey-Planned-Fake-Al-Qaeda-Attack-in-Syria-to-Justify-Invasion
Feridun Sinirlioğlu: We have done these before, these can be done of course. We can make it done,
Hakan Fidan: I mean, if we are ready to use that thing, in correct time and place, let us do it with a purpose determined by us.
Ahmet Davutoğlu: Hakan, as you said, if what you mean is a lack of strategy in fabricating a justification, you are right. Against these men…
An officer: Sir, without that happening-
Ahmet Davutoğlu: Yes, we will pass on to that okay take it and I am coming. You cannot say to the US Secretary of State, "we need to take strong measures."
Hakan Fidan: Well, sir, what I am saying is-
Ahmet Davutoğlu: Then he will say, you did not even defend your own land. We had many friendly conversations, mostly with Kerry and he told me exactly this, did you decide to strike and …
EIGHT SCREEN:
Yaşar Güler: Sir, we did, we did a hundred times. With US…
Feridun Sinirlioğlu: Well, look, three days ago, a thing happened at the office of General Chief of Staff, this thing came up and they had a coordination meeting. I see that for the first time. The Americans-
Yaşar Güler: No, we do it regularly!
Feridun Sinirlioğlu: No, no.. The Americans in that meeting distributed the plans for the No Fly Zone. For the first time. Do you know that?
Hakan Fidan: Hmm, what I underline is, sir, if we are going to take such an important decision for this sort of reason, Sulayman Sah Tomb, if we are ready to take this decision
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2014/03/27/1287823/-Updated-Turkey-Planned-Fake-Al-Qaeda-Attack-in-Syria-to-Justify-Invasion
Of course all the NATO countries are going to report this as "YouTube ban", nothing-to-see-here, just-Erdogan-being-a-dick before the elections, move on...
March 29, 2014
I think the same thing. It's gone way beyond the Atlantic Coast
It's just a huge multi-trillion dollar suckhole at this point, an old boy colonial network securing oil for the same people who are bleeding us dry.
I like Chomsky's short answer
“How should NATO develop? Immediately disband.”
...
Q. A question asked more and more is ‘what is NATO for?’ If no one knows what it is for, why do you think it has survived 20 years after the end of the Cold War?
Professor Chomsky: Yes, that is the right question, isn’t it? You might ask why it lasted even one month after the end of the Cold War. Why did it survive? If you look back to when the Soviet Union collapsed, Gorbachev agreed to a quite remarkable concession. He agreed to let a united Germany join the NATO military alliance. Now it is remarkable in the light of history, the history of the past century, Germany alone had virtually destroyed Russia, twice, and Germany, backed by a hostile military alliance, centered in the most phenomenal military power in history, that’s a real threat. Nevertheless he agreed, but there was a quid pro quo, namely that NATO should not expand to the East, so Russia would at least have a kind of security zone. And George Bush and then-Secretary of State James Baker agreed that NATO would not expand one inch to the East. Gorbachev also proposed a nuclear free weapons zone in the region, but the US wouldn’t consider that. I don’t think they even replied to the proposal. So that was it, no more Soviet Union – game over.
So what did the Bush administration do? They issued a defense strategy document that effectively said that the real threat was actually the advanced technological level of third world countries and the need to preserve the superiority of the US technological military industrial base, problems not attributable to the Kremlin. So suddenly the original threat turns out to be a lie and it is business as usual for NATO.
...
Q. How do you see NATO developing in the future?
A. If the question was ‘How ought NATO to develop?’ the answer is ‘immediate disbandment’. In reality there is little sign of change. You may have noticed that despite the financial crisis there is no serious attempt to limit US military spending since Obama became President. They may cancel some expensive high tech projects like purchase of the F22 fighter. You don’t need those sorts of planes for the sort of wars we have now. Before Bush left office 30 billion dollars was voted to support Israel over ten years. Today Israel is just a military outpost of the United States. The plan is to increase the number of ground troops. That’s what you need for the sort of wars they plan. Look, during the Gaza invasion the United States planned to deliver thousands of tons of ammunition to Israel in German ships via Greece. The Greeks stopped it, so they have to find some other way to send it, but the Pentagon said it was for pre-positioning for future conflicts.
...
http://rt.com/politics/how-should-nato-develop-immediately-disband/
...
Q. A question asked more and more is ‘what is NATO for?’ If no one knows what it is for, why do you think it has survived 20 years after the end of the Cold War?
Professor Chomsky: Yes, that is the right question, isn’t it? You might ask why it lasted even one month after the end of the Cold War. Why did it survive? If you look back to when the Soviet Union collapsed, Gorbachev agreed to a quite remarkable concession. He agreed to let a united Germany join the NATO military alliance. Now it is remarkable in the light of history, the history of the past century, Germany alone had virtually destroyed Russia, twice, and Germany, backed by a hostile military alliance, centered in the most phenomenal military power in history, that’s a real threat. Nevertheless he agreed, but there was a quid pro quo, namely that NATO should not expand to the East, so Russia would at least have a kind of security zone. And George Bush and then-Secretary of State James Baker agreed that NATO would not expand one inch to the East. Gorbachev also proposed a nuclear free weapons zone in the region, but the US wouldn’t consider that. I don’t think they even replied to the proposal. So that was it, no more Soviet Union – game over.
So what did the Bush administration do? They issued a defense strategy document that effectively said that the real threat was actually the advanced technological level of third world countries and the need to preserve the superiority of the US technological military industrial base, problems not attributable to the Kremlin. So suddenly the original threat turns out to be a lie and it is business as usual for NATO.
...
Q. How do you see NATO developing in the future?
A. If the question was ‘How ought NATO to develop?’ the answer is ‘immediate disbandment’. In reality there is little sign of change. You may have noticed that despite the financial crisis there is no serious attempt to limit US military spending since Obama became President. They may cancel some expensive high tech projects like purchase of the F22 fighter. You don’t need those sorts of planes for the sort of wars we have now. Before Bush left office 30 billion dollars was voted to support Israel over ten years. Today Israel is just a military outpost of the United States. The plan is to increase the number of ground troops. That’s what you need for the sort of wars they plan. Look, during the Gaza invasion the United States planned to deliver thousands of tons of ammunition to Israel in German ships via Greece. The Greeks stopped it, so they have to find some other way to send it, but the Pentagon said it was for pre-positioning for future conflicts.
...
http://rt.com/politics/how-should-nato-develop-immediately-disband/
March 29, 2014
I'm going to be very sick. I just found a KOS entry about this.
KOS has the whole conversation up in readable form.
All week long, Turkish media has been carrying stories about a supposed tomb threat by ISIL
You'll get no argument from me about Erdogan being a terror promoter.
The puppet, lying media reported that the threat was that if the Turkish flag above the tomb was not lowered then the terrorist group would attack the tomb.
Daily Sabah, 26.03.2014:
AL-QAEDA OFFSHOOT ISIL, A NEW TERROR THREAT FOR TURKEY
He noted that ISIL's threats against Süleyman Şah tomb where Turkey has an extraterritorial jurisdiction, clearly indicates the group's hostility towards Turkey. In this context, ISIL may serve to the interest of the Assad regime. "Süleyman Şah tomb is Turkish territory according to the Ankara Agreement. If Syrian army entered there, this would be casus belli. But instead of doing that, the Assad regime may use ISIL as it used Kurdistan Workers' Party (PKK) in the past against Turkey," he said. Caşın said ISIL might be employed by the Assad regime in the wake of rising tensions between Syria and Turkey after Turkey shot down a Syrian fighter jet.
He noted that ISIL's threats against Süleyman Şah tomb where Turkey has an extraterritorial jurisdiction, clearly indicates the group's hostility towards Turkey. In this context, ISIL may serve to the interest of the Assad regime. "Süleyman Şah tomb is Turkish territory according to the Ankara Agreement. If Syrian army entered there, this would be casus belli. But instead of doing that, the Assad regime may use ISIL as it used Kurdistan Workers' Party (PKK) in the past against Turkey," he said. Caşın said ISIL might be employed by the Assad regime in the wake of rising tensions between Syria and Turkey after Turkey shot down a Syrian fighter jet.
Defense News (AFP) Mar. 26, 2014: Turkey Vows 'Any Measures' Against Syria Threats
It has also warned it will protect a historic shrine that is under Turkish jurisdiction but located inside Syria’s northern Aleppo province against threats from Islamist militants.
A Turkish flag flies over the Tomb of Suleyman Shah, grandfather of Ottoman Empire founder Osman, and a small garrison with a symbolic number of troops is permanently stationed there.
The site, located 25 kilometers (15 miles) from the border, has been threatened by the extremist group Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant (ISIL).
Davutoglu accused ISIL of clashing with Free Syrian Army rebels while refraining from attacking regime forces.
He said “Turkey is ready to take any legitimate step under international law if its national security, including the area where the tomb of Suleyman Shah is situated, is threatened.”
also carried in Hurryet Daily News
It has also warned it will protect a historic shrine that is under Turkish jurisdiction but located inside Syria’s northern Aleppo province against threats from Islamist militants.
A Turkish flag flies over the Tomb of Suleyman Shah, grandfather of Ottoman Empire founder Osman, and a small garrison with a symbolic number of troops is permanently stationed there.
The site, located 25 kilometers (15 miles) from the border, has been threatened by the extremist group Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant (ISIL).
Davutoglu accused ISIL of clashing with Free Syrian Army rebels while refraining from attacking regime forces.
He said “Turkey is ready to take any legitimate step under international law if its national security, including the area where the tomb of Suleyman Shah is situated, is threatened.”
also carried in Hurryet Daily News
IHS Jane's Intelligence Weekly 25 March 2014: Threat to Turkish sovereign exclave in Syria by ISIL increases risk of conflict
Militant group Islamic State in Iraq and the Levant (ISIL) has threatened to attack the Tomb of Suleiman Shah, a sacred mausoleum based in a Turkish exclave in Syria, around 25 kilometres from the Turkish border.
...
In another development, President Abullah Gül has responded to threats from ISIL to Turkey lower its flag over the Tomb of Suleiman Shah, which is located in a Turkish sovereign exclave of Jabar Fortress and is guarded by Turkish soldiers. Fighting between ISIL and other militant groups close to the tomb has recently intensified. Turkish daily Hürriyet reported on 23 March that the Turkish Armed Forces (Türk Silahli Kuvvetleri: TSK) are preparing a "small scale" operation in the event the tomb is attacked by ISIL militants. The re-emergence of Syria on the political agenda comes as Turkey's ruling Justice and Development Party (Adalet ve Kalkinma Partisi: AKP) heads into municipal elections on 30 March embattled by allegations of corruption.
Militant group Islamic State in Iraq and the Levant (ISIL) has threatened to attack the Tomb of Suleiman Shah, a sacred mausoleum based in a Turkish exclave in Syria, around 25 kilometres from the Turkish border.
...
In another development, President Abullah Gül has responded to threats from ISIL to Turkey lower its flag over the Tomb of Suleiman Shah, which is located in a Turkish sovereign exclave of Jabar Fortress and is guarded by Turkish soldiers. Fighting between ISIL and other militant groups close to the tomb has recently intensified. Turkish daily Hürriyet reported on 23 March that the Turkish Armed Forces (Türk Silahli Kuvvetleri: TSK) are preparing a "small scale" operation in the event the tomb is attacked by ISIL militants. The re-emergence of Syria on the political agenda comes as Turkey's ruling Justice and Development Party (Adalet ve Kalkinma Partisi: AKP) heads into municipal elections on 30 March embattled by allegations of corruption.
I'm going to be very sick. I just found a KOS entry about this.
In the meeting, the four discuss conducting a false flag attack--blamed on Al Qaeda--in order to justify war with Syria.
The conversation revealed that John Kerry had been pressing Davutoglu to strike Syria.
Turkey's plan involved either orchestrating a missile strike on Turkey or faking an attack on the tomb of Suleyman Shah, founder of the Ottoman Empire. The tomb is in Syria but is considered a sovereign enclave of Turkey per the terms of the 1921 Treaty of Ankara.
...
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2014/03/27/1287823/-Updated-Turkey-Planned-Fake-Al-Qaeda-Attack-in-Syria-to-Justify-Invasion
The conversation revealed that John Kerry had been pressing Davutoglu to strike Syria.
Turkey's plan involved either orchestrating a missile strike on Turkey or faking an attack on the tomb of Suleyman Shah, founder of the Ottoman Empire. The tomb is in Syria but is considered a sovereign enclave of Turkey per the terms of the 1921 Treaty of Ankara.
...
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2014/03/27/1287823/-Updated-Turkey-Planned-Fake-Al-Qaeda-Attack-in-Syria-to-Justify-Invasion
At about the 5:00 mark Foreign Minister Davutoglu says
Translation: Many times Kerry has said to me "Ok, did you make the decision to strike?"
What is less clear is whether Kerry was aware that Turkish plans for how to pull off an invasion included faking an attack by Al Qaeda on its own territory, either firing missiles from Syria into Turkey or attacking the tomb of the founder of the Ottoman Empire (the tomb is in Syria but is considered a sovereign enclave of Turkey).
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2014/03/27/1287880/-John-Kerry-Encouraged-Turkish-Invasion-of-Syria
...cogu zaman Kerry bana aynen sunu soyledi peki siz kararinizi verdiniz mi dedi bu vurma ve sey yapma...
Translation: Many times Kerry has said to me "Ok, did you make the decision to strike?"
What is less clear is whether Kerry was aware that Turkish plans for how to pull off an invasion included faking an attack by Al Qaeda on its own territory, either firing missiles from Syria into Turkey or attacking the tomb of the founder of the Ottoman Empire (the tomb is in Syria but is considered a sovereign enclave of Turkey).
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2014/03/27/1287880/-John-Kerry-Encouraged-Turkish-Invasion-of-Syria
KOS has the whole conversation up in readable form.
March 29, 2014
Our entire MSM is whistling the same tune with little variation.
and finally some important information from Reuters which seems to be the only Western outlet out there with any integrity.
Then the whole story and transcript
A few more details. It's all over the net. You can research it yourselves.
Here's a Reuters video about this
The Young Turks has been discussing this too.
NATO country (Turkey) just caught planning a false flag attack to jumpstart war against Syria
A NATO member country (Turkey) was just caught planning a false flag war, by instigating a fake "Syrian" attack on technically Turkish soil which would give NATO-member Turkey a *legal* pretext to jump in the war against Syria. The Western press, which is owned by the same corporations that buy our government every election cycle, is minimizing this to "Turkey bans YouTube". There's a thread in LBN about this "Turkey blocks access to YouTube after leaked recordings of key security meeting".
Turkey blocked twitter after the first leak, of Erdogan calling his son to move a ton of money around for him and hide it, prompted growing calls for him to resign. This Syria business that just came out is the second leak and now Youtube is blocked there with talk of blocking other social media like Facebook too.
Look at this deceitful, minimized, nothing-to-see-here reporting from CNN:
(CNN) -- The Turkish government banned YouTube on Thursday, less than a week after Ankara made a similar blackout of the social networking site Twitter, which is estimated to have more than 10 million Turkish users.
Neither website can be reached on Turkish Internet networks.
The crackdown comes just days before Turks are expected to go to the polls in nationwide municipal elections.
The Turkish government said its YouTube block came as a response to the leak of a conversation between top government officials purportedly discussing the possibility of going to war with neighboring Syria.
...
http://edition.cnn.com/2014/03/27/world/europe/turkey-youtube-blocked/
Our entire MSM is whistling the same tune with little variation.
BBC: "Earlier, what appeared to be a leaked audio recording of Turkish officials discussing Syria appeared on YouTube.
It relates to a discussion of possible military operations in Syria, which was apparently attended by Turkey's intelligence chief, its foreign minister and the deputy head of the armed forces."
The Independent:"YouTube has been blocked in Turkey after alleged leaks of high-level security talks regarding Syria were uploaded to the site."
Bloomberg: "Turkey defended its decision to block YouTube after a leaked recording of a meeting where top officials discussed a possible military incursion into Syria appeared on the site."
Channel 4: "YouTube was blocked on Thursday after an anonymous account posted what it presented as a recording of intelligence chief Hakan Fidan discussing possible military operations in Syria with Foreign Minister Ahmet Davutoglu, Deputy Chief of Military Staff Yasar Guler, and others."
Daily Mail: "Block comes after leaked audio seems to record Turkish officials discussing Syria"
CNN: "The Turkish government said its YouTube block came as a response to the leak of a conversation between top government officials purportedly discussing the possibility of going to war with neighboring Syria."
and finally some important information from Reuters which seems to be the only Western outlet out there with any integrity.
"They even leaked a national security meeting," Erdogan said at a campaign rally. "This is villainous, this is dishonesty ... Who are you serving by doing audio surveillance of such an important meeting?"
...
"NATIONAL SECURITY ISSUE"
Turkey threatened two weeks ago to retaliate for any attack on the tomb following clashes between militants of the Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant (ISIL), an al Qaeda breakaway group, and rival rebel groups in the area, east of Aleppo near the Turkish border.
"An operation against ISIL has international legitimacy. We will define it as al Qaeda. There are no issues on the al Qaeda framework. When it comes to the Suleyman Shah tomb, it's about the protection of national soil," a voice presented as that of foreign ministry undersecretary Feridun Sinirlioglu says.
When the discussion turns to the need to justify such an operation, the voice purportedly of Fidan says: "Now look, my commander, if there is to be justification, the justification is, I send four men to the other side. I get them to fire eight missiles into empty land. That's not a problem. Justification can be created."
http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/03/27/us-syria-crisis-turkey-idUSBREA2Q17420140327
Then the whole story and transcript
RT: YouTube ban: How Turkish officials conspired to stage Syria attack to provoke war
“I'll make up a cause of war by ordering a missile attack on Turkey.” This leaked conversation is coming back to haunt the highest echelons of the Turkish government as it plans a provocation in Syria, while scrambling to contain social media internally.
The leaked audiotapes that reveal Turkey’s highest ministers staging an anti-Assad military intervention in Syria, have already caused YouTube to be shut down in the country, as well as leading to fevered accusations of treachery and betrayal of Turkey’s political interests – “a declaration of war,” as Turkish Foreign Minister Ahmet Davutoğlu put it.
This is of course after intelligence chief Hakan Fidan suggested seizing the opportunity to secure Turkish intervention in the Syrian conflict - a war that has already claimed 140,000 lives, and counting. In the conversation, Davutoğlu is heard saying that Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdoğan sees any attack as an "opportunity" to increase troop presence in Syria, where it has staunchly supported the anti-Assad rebels.
Below is a transcript of that conversation in full. The video can be found below.
(+ full transcipt, + video)
A few more details. It's all over the net. You can research it yourselves.
Hakan Fidan: “I’ll send 4 men from Syria, if that’s what it takes. I’ll make up a cause of war by ordering a missile attack on Turkey; we can also prepare an attack on Suleiman Shah Tomb if necessary.”
Feridun Sinirlioğlu: “Our national security has become a common, cheap domestic policy outfit.”
Yaşar Güler: “It’s a direct cause of war. I mean, what we’re going to do is a direct cause of war.”
...
Feridun Sinirlioğlu: But if we decide on an operation in there, it should create a shocking effect. I mean, if we are going to do so. I don’t know what we’re going to do, but regardless of what we decide, I don’t think it’d be appropriate to notify anyone beforehand.
...
Feridun Sinirlioğlu: That’s what I told back there. For one thing, the situation is different. An operation on ISIL has solid ground on international law. We’re going to portray this is Al-Qaeda, there’s no distress there if it’s a matter regarding Al-Qaeda. And if it comes to defending Suleiman Shah Tomb, that’s a matter of protecting our land.
Yaşar Güler: We don’t have any problems with that.
Hakan Fidan: Second after it happens, it’ll cause a great internal commotion (several bombing events is bound to happen within). The border is not under control…
Feridun Sinirlioğlu: I mean, yes, the bombings are of course going to happen. But I remember our talk from 3 years ago…
Yaşar Güler: Mr. Fidan should urgently receive back-up and we need to help him supply guns and ammo to rebels.
http://www.reddit.com/r/syriancivilwar/comments/21ib4d/leaked_recording_of_turkish_officials_discussing/
Feridun Sinirlioğlu: “Our national security has become a common, cheap domestic policy outfit.”
Yaşar Güler: “It’s a direct cause of war. I mean, what we’re going to do is a direct cause of war.”
...
Feridun Sinirlioğlu: But if we decide on an operation in there, it should create a shocking effect. I mean, if we are going to do so. I don’t know what we’re going to do, but regardless of what we decide, I don’t think it’d be appropriate to notify anyone beforehand.
...
Feridun Sinirlioğlu: That’s what I told back there. For one thing, the situation is different. An operation on ISIL has solid ground on international law. We’re going to portray this is Al-Qaeda, there’s no distress there if it’s a matter regarding Al-Qaeda. And if it comes to defending Suleiman Shah Tomb, that’s a matter of protecting our land.
Yaşar Güler: We don’t have any problems with that.
Hakan Fidan: Second after it happens, it’ll cause a great internal commotion (several bombing events is bound to happen within). The border is not under control…
Feridun Sinirlioğlu: I mean, yes, the bombings are of course going to happen. But I remember our talk from 3 years ago…
Yaşar Güler: Mr. Fidan should urgently receive back-up and we need to help him supply guns and ammo to rebels.
http://www.reddit.com/r/syriancivilwar/comments/21ib4d/leaked_recording_of_turkish_officials_discussing/
The tomb of Suleyman Shah is sovereign territory of Turkey under a treaty signed with France in 1921 while Syria was still under colonial rule. Turkey maintains a force of two dozen special forces soldiers at the tomb to permanently guard it. ISIL and other rebels groups fighting Assad have clashed near the tomb.
...
Turkey has blocked access to YouTube in an attempt to stop the video from being disseminated. This block follows a week after the Turkish government blocked Twitter in a similar desperate bid to limit the reach of other damaging leaked recordings.
...
When asked about justification for an incursion into Syria, intelligence chief Hakan Fidan allegedly responded: "Justification can be created. The matter is to create the will."
...
http://www.businessinsider.com/erdogan-leak-about-syria-2014-3
...
Turkey has blocked access to YouTube in an attempt to stop the video from being disseminated. This block follows a week after the Turkish government blocked Twitter in a similar desperate bid to limit the reach of other damaging leaked recordings.
...
When asked about justification for an incursion into Syria, intelligence chief Hakan Fidan allegedly responded: "Justification can be created. The matter is to create the will."
...
http://www.businessinsider.com/erdogan-leak-about-syria-2014-3
Here's a Reuters video about this
The Young Turks has been discussing this too.
March 28, 2014
Reuters seems to be the only Western outlet out there with any decency.
A few more details. It's all over the net.
A NATO country (Turkey) just caught planning a false flag attack to go to war against Syria
I hate to do this to you Will but this is important.
A NATO member country (Turkey) was just caught planning a false flag war, by instigating a fake "Syrian" attack on technically Turkish soil which would give Turkey, then NATO a *legal* pretext to jump in the war against Syria. The Western press, which is owned by the same corporations that buy our government every election cycle, is minimizing this to "Turkey bans YouTube". There's a thread in LBN about this "Turkey blocks access to YouTube after leaked recordings of key security meeting"
Look at this deceitful, minimized reporting from CNN:
(CNN) -- The Turkish government banned YouTube on Thursday, less than a week after Ankara made a similar blackout of the social networking site Twitter, which is estimated to have more than 10 million Turkish users.
Neither website can be reached on Turkish Internet networks.
The crackdown comes just days before Turks are expected to go to the polls in nationwide municipal elections.
The Turkish government said its YouTube block came as a response to the leak of a conversation between top government officials purportedly discussing the possibility of going to war with neighboring Syria.
...
http://edition.cnn.com/2014/03/27/world/europe/turkey-youtube-blocked/
Neither website can be reached on Turkish Internet networks.
The crackdown comes just days before Turks are expected to go to the polls in nationwide municipal elections.
The Turkish government said its YouTube block came as a response to the leak of a conversation between top government officials purportedly discussing the possibility of going to war with neighboring Syria.
...
http://edition.cnn.com/2014/03/27/world/europe/turkey-youtube-blocked/
Reuters seems to be the only Western outlet out there with any decency.
"They even leaked a national security meeting," Erdogan said at a campaign rally. "This is villainous, this is dishonesty ... Who are you serving by doing audio surveillance of such an important meeting?"
...
"NATIONAL SECURITY ISSUE"
Turkey threatened two weeks ago to retaliate for any attack on the tomb following clashes between militants of the Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant (ISIL), an al Qaeda breakaway group, and rival rebel groups in the area, east of Aleppo near the Turkish border.
"An operation against ISIL has international legitimacy. We will define it as al Qaeda. There are no issues on the al Qaeda framework. When it comes to the Suleyman Shah tomb, it's about the protection of national soil," a voice presented as that of foreign ministry undersecretary Feridun Sinirlioglu says.
When the discussion turns to the need to justify such an operation, the voice purportedly of Fidan says: "Now look, my commander, if there is to be justification, the justification is, I send four men to the other side. I get them to fire eight missiles into empty land. That's not a problem. Justification can be created."
http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/03/27/us-syria-crisis-turkey-idUSBREA2Q17420140327
...
"NATIONAL SECURITY ISSUE"
Turkey threatened two weeks ago to retaliate for any attack on the tomb following clashes between militants of the Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant (ISIL), an al Qaeda breakaway group, and rival rebel groups in the area, east of Aleppo near the Turkish border.
"An operation against ISIL has international legitimacy. We will define it as al Qaeda. There are no issues on the al Qaeda framework. When it comes to the Suleyman Shah tomb, it's about the protection of national soil," a voice presented as that of foreign ministry undersecretary Feridun Sinirlioglu says.
When the discussion turns to the need to justify such an operation, the voice purportedly of Fidan says: "Now look, my commander, if there is to be justification, the justification is, I send four men to the other side. I get them to fire eight missiles into empty land. That's not a problem. Justification can be created."
http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/03/27/us-syria-crisis-turkey-idUSBREA2Q17420140327
A few more details. It's all over the net.
Hakan Fidan: “I’ll send 4 men from Syria, if that’s what it takes. I’ll make up a cause of war by ordering a missile attack on Turkey; we can also prepare an attack on Suleiman Shah Tomb if necessary.”
Feridun Sinirlioğlu: “Our national security has become a common, cheap domestic policy outfit.”
Yaşar Güler: “It’s a direct cause of war. I mean, what we’re going to do is a direct cause of war.”
...
Feridun Sinirlioğlu: But if we decide on an operation in there, it should create a shocking effect. I mean, if we are going to do so. I don’t know what we’re going to do, but regardless of what we decide, I don’t think it’d be appropriate to notify anyone beforehand.
...
Feridun Sinirlioğlu: That’s what I told back there. For one thing, the situation is different. An operation on ISIL has solid ground on international law. We’re going to portray this is Al-Qaeda, there’s no distress there if it’s a matter regarding Al-Qaeda. And if it comes to defending Suleiman Shah Tomb, that’s a matter of protecting our land.
Yaşar Güler: We don’t have any problems with that.
Hakan Fidan: Second after it happens, it’ll cause a great internal commotion (several bombing events is bound to happen within). The border is not under control…
Feridun Sinirlioğlu: I mean, yes, the bombings are of course going to happen. But I remember our talk from 3 years ago…
Yaşar Güler: Mr. Fidan should urgently receive back-up and we need to help him supply guns and ammo to rebels.
http://www.reddit.com/r/syriancivilwar/comments/21ib4d/leaked_recording_of_turkish_officials_discussing/
Feridun Sinirlioğlu: “Our national security has become a common, cheap domestic policy outfit.”
Yaşar Güler: “It’s a direct cause of war. I mean, what we’re going to do is a direct cause of war.”
...
Feridun Sinirlioğlu: But if we decide on an operation in there, it should create a shocking effect. I mean, if we are going to do so. I don’t know what we’re going to do, but regardless of what we decide, I don’t think it’d be appropriate to notify anyone beforehand.
...
Feridun Sinirlioğlu: That’s what I told back there. For one thing, the situation is different. An operation on ISIL has solid ground on international law. We’re going to portray this is Al-Qaeda, there’s no distress there if it’s a matter regarding Al-Qaeda. And if it comes to defending Suleiman Shah Tomb, that’s a matter of protecting our land.
Yaşar Güler: We don’t have any problems with that.
Hakan Fidan: Second after it happens, it’ll cause a great internal commotion (several bombing events is bound to happen within). The border is not under control…
Feridun Sinirlioğlu: I mean, yes, the bombings are of course going to happen. But I remember our talk from 3 years ago…
Yaşar Güler: Mr. Fidan should urgently receive back-up and we need to help him supply guns and ammo to rebels.
http://www.reddit.com/r/syriancivilwar/comments/21ib4d/leaked_recording_of_turkish_officials_discussing/
The tomb of Suleyman Shah is sovereign territory of Turkey under a treaty signed with France in 1921 while Syria was still under colonial rule. Turkey maintains a force of two dozen special forces soldiers at the tomb to permanently guard it. ISIL and other rebels groups fighting Assad have clashed near the tomb.
...
Turkey has blocked access to YouTube in an attempt to stop the video from being disseminated. This block follows a week after the Turkish government blocked Twitter in a similar desperate bid to limit the reach of other damaging leaked recordings.
...
When asked about justification for an incursion into Syria, intelligence chief Hakan Fidan allegedly responded: "Justification can be created. The matter is to create the will."
...
http://www.businessinsider.com/erdogan-leak-about-syria-2014-3
...
Turkey has blocked access to YouTube in an attempt to stop the video from being disseminated. This block follows a week after the Turkish government blocked Twitter in a similar desperate bid to limit the reach of other damaging leaked recordings.
...
When asked about justification for an incursion into Syria, intelligence chief Hakan Fidan allegedly responded: "Justification can be created. The matter is to create the will."
...
http://www.businessinsider.com/erdogan-leak-about-syria-2014-3
March 28, 2014
So a NATO member country is caught planning a false flag war and headlines are "Youtube Blocked"?
So a NATO member country is caught planning a false flag war, by instigating a fake "Syrian" attack giving NATO a pretext to jump in, and the news story reported in the mainstream western press is Turkey's ban on YouTube?
Reuters seems to be the only Western outlet out there with any decency. The UK Guardian is totally compromised. To quote Julian Assange "The Guardian, which is the UK establishment's preferred attack dog on the former Soviet".
"They even leaked a national security meeting," Erdogan said at a campaign rally. "This is villainous, this is dishonesty ... Who are you serving by doing audio surveillance of such an important meeting?"
...
"NATIONAL SECURITY ISSUE"
Turkey threatened two weeks ago to retaliate for any attack on the tomb following clashes between militants of the Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant (ISIL), an al Qaeda breakaway group, and rival rebel groups in the area, east of Aleppo near the Turkish border.
"An operation against ISIL has international legitimacy. We will define it as al Qaeda. There are no issues on the al Qaeda framework. When it comes to the Suleyman Shah tomb, it's about the protection of national soil," a voice presented as that of foreign ministry undersecretary Feridun Sinirlioglu says.
When the discussion turns to the need to justify such an operation, the voice purportedly of Fidan says: "Now look, my commander, if there is to be justification, the justification is, I send four men to the other side. I get them to fire eight missiles into empty land. That's not a problem. Justification can be created."
http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/03/27/us-syria-crisis-turkey-idUSBREA2Q17420140327
...
"NATIONAL SECURITY ISSUE"
Turkey threatened two weeks ago to retaliate for any attack on the tomb following clashes between militants of the Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant (ISIL), an al Qaeda breakaway group, and rival rebel groups in the area, east of Aleppo near the Turkish border.
"An operation against ISIL has international legitimacy. We will define it as al Qaeda. There are no issues on the al Qaeda framework. When it comes to the Suleyman Shah tomb, it's about the protection of national soil," a voice presented as that of foreign ministry undersecretary Feridun Sinirlioglu says.
When the discussion turns to the need to justify such an operation, the voice purportedly of Fidan says: "Now look, my commander, if there is to be justification, the justification is, I send four men to the other side. I get them to fire eight missiles into empty land. That's not a problem. Justification can be created."
http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/03/27/us-syria-crisis-turkey-idUSBREA2Q17420140327
Hakan Fidan: “I’ll send 4 men from Syria, if that’s what it takes. I’ll make up a cause of war by ordering a missile attack on Turkey; we can also prepare an attack on Suleiman Shah Tomb if necessary.”
Feridun Sinirlioğlu: “Our national security has become a common, cheap domestic policy outfit.”
Yaşar Güler: “It’s a direct cause of war. I mean, what we’re going to do is a direct cause of war.”
...
Feridun Sinirlioğlu: But if we decide on an operation in there, it should create a shocking effect. I mean, if we are going to do so. I don’t know what we’re going to do, but regardless of what we decide, I don’t think it’d be appropriate to notify anyone beforehand.
...
Feridun Sinirlioğlu: That’s what I told back there. For one thing, the situation is different. An operation on ISIL has solid ground on international law. We’re going to portray this is Al-Qaeda, there’s no distress there if it’s a matter regarding Al-Qaeda. And if it comes to defending Suleiman Shah Tomb, that’s a matter of protecting our land.
Yaşar Güler: We don’t have any problems with that.
Hakan Fidan: Second after it happens, it’ll cause a great internal commotion (several bombing events is bound to happen within). The border is not under control…
Feridun Sinirlioğlu: I mean, yes, the bombings are of course going to happen. But I remember our talk from 3 years ago…
Yaşar Güler: Mr. Fidan should urgently receive back-up and we need to help him supply guns and ammo to rebels.
http://www.reddit.com/r/syriancivilwar/comments/21ib4d/leaked_recording_of_turkish_officials_discussing/
Feridun Sinirlioğlu: “Our national security has become a common, cheap domestic policy outfit.”
Yaşar Güler: “It’s a direct cause of war. I mean, what we’re going to do is a direct cause of war.”
...
Feridun Sinirlioğlu: But if we decide on an operation in there, it should create a shocking effect. I mean, if we are going to do so. I don’t know what we’re going to do, but regardless of what we decide, I don’t think it’d be appropriate to notify anyone beforehand.
...
Feridun Sinirlioğlu: That’s what I told back there. For one thing, the situation is different. An operation on ISIL has solid ground on international law. We’re going to portray this is Al-Qaeda, there’s no distress there if it’s a matter regarding Al-Qaeda. And if it comes to defending Suleiman Shah Tomb, that’s a matter of protecting our land.
Yaşar Güler: We don’t have any problems with that.
Hakan Fidan: Second after it happens, it’ll cause a great internal commotion (several bombing events is bound to happen within). The border is not under control…
Feridun Sinirlioğlu: I mean, yes, the bombings are of course going to happen. But I remember our talk from 3 years ago…
Yaşar Güler: Mr. Fidan should urgently receive back-up and we need to help him supply guns and ammo to rebels.
http://www.reddit.com/r/syriancivilwar/comments/21ib4d/leaked_recording_of_turkish_officials_discussing/
March 28, 2014
I was just reading this in another thread
It's all there indeed. The "Peterson Institute for International Economics"
Victor Pinchuk > "Peterson Institute for International Economics"I was just reading this in another thread
What President Clinton says matters. He’s the architect and primary spokesperson for the corporatist and pro-Wall Street wing of his party. He’s also the political and personal partner of the Democratic Party’s presumed 2016 candidate. Enormous sums are being raised for Hillary Clinton’s candidacy even now, which reinforces the Clintons’ enormous influence (and gives them good reason to please the big-money crowd).
Headlines like the AP’s emphasized the “gradual deficit reduction” theme of President Clinton’s talk to the “Clinton Global Initiative University” in Phoenix. The Washington Post reports that President Clinton was given a “glowing introduction” from Michael Peterson. Peterson heads the right-wing, strongly pro-austerity, and staunchly anti-Social Security Peterson Foundation on behalf of his billionaire father Peter G. Peterson. That introduction, we’re told, led to “an extemporaneous riff about deficit issues” (although we wonder how much is truly extemporaneous with this most polished of political performers).
http://www.nationofchange.org/bill-clinton-and-steny-hoyer-wall-street-democrats-fight-back-1396013681
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10024742301
Headlines like the AP’s emphasized the “gradual deficit reduction” theme of President Clinton’s talk to the “Clinton Global Initiative University” in Phoenix. The Washington Post reports that President Clinton was given a “glowing introduction” from Michael Peterson. Peterson heads the right-wing, strongly pro-austerity, and staunchly anti-Social Security Peterson Foundation on behalf of his billionaire father Peter G. Peterson. That introduction, we’re told, led to “an extemporaneous riff about deficit issues” (although we wonder how much is truly extemporaneous with this most polished of political performers).
http://www.nationofchange.org/bill-clinton-and-steny-hoyer-wall-street-democrats-fight-back-1396013681
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10024742301
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