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Member since: Thu Jul 24, 2008, 05:59 PM
Number of posts: 5,018

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Great OP.

I'm glad that even the corporate media questions the more obvious bigoted pandering of the Republican candidates. It shows there is a broader awareness of these issues and even a bit more of a willingness to confront dog whistles and code.

I don't think it will reach those culture warriors already set in their ways, but for those who have fewer experiences and are a bit naive about such things, maybe it will inform them.

Is affirmative action effective?

We've had it in place for a while now, and the inequalities are all still there, if not worse.

As far as I can tell, it has failed miserably as a policy to create equal opportunities, mainly because by the time college comes, it's far too late to be giving out opportunities, the damage has been done. It's addressing the wrong end of the problem.

It seems to distract from the far bigger problem that is creating these unequal opportunities from birth. Concentrated poverty. Until that is fixed, it's hard to see how racial affirmative action will do much besides be fodder for conservatives and be used as a sort of punching bag by them since it hasn't worked to improve the condition of minorities.

Part of it is just cultural as well, and that's hard to address in any way by the government. I don't know that it can be.


I don't think anyone on here was defending Juan. He's a bigot himself. See why he was fired from NPR.

Also, calling Obama the "food stamp president" is simply a dog whistle to bigots everywhere. Just like the old "welfare queen" bullcrap.

Considering we are in the worst recession since the Great Depression, none of which is due to Obama's or liberal policies, attributing the fact that food stamps have increased to Obama, or even focusing on "food stamps" of all things, which aren't even called that anymore, is just pure red bigoted meat slung to an audience of ignorant and hateful people that are fed paranoia and hate on a daily basis. It has been part of Republican strategy for a while, very clearly laid out in the Southern Strategy, to reach out to bigots in the south for electoral gains.

As for why this is called "Democratic" underground, it's because it is the proper way to say it, and has nothing to do with the small "d" democratic. "Democrat" is not proper grammer and is a popular way of slurring Democrats by those on the right if you didn't know. You don't seem to know a lot. Hopefully you have an open mind and can see from another perspective, which you seem to have little knowledge of.

Couple of bad analogies...

Unlike gay sex, smoking cigarettes in public does hurt other people.

The issue isn't a moral one, it's a health issue.

Yes, there are other pollutants out there, but they usually aren't running cars or coal plants in a small enclosed restaurant. And they also serve a purpose, one which society has to accept the costs of (and which are themselves being worked on to be lessened).

Someone can smoke in privacy all they want, so no privacy is being violated.

Of course, even smoking by yourself adds on certain costs to society in healthcare costs.

Defending an industry that relies on getting people chemically addicted to carcinogens has always been something that amused/infuriated me, especially when the tired "liberty" argument comes up. Spare me the Ron Paul insanity.

Even the comparison to alcohol isn't very good. Alcohol doesn't get people chemically addicted. One can drink responsibly. One can't really use cigarettes responsibly in a regular manner. It is still bad for you.

Cigarettes can't and shouldn't be banned, but they can be heavily regulated and restricted from public areas.

The Greeks don't seem too happy now...

I think they're overrated personally.

Calling it whining is offensive and counterproductive...

I think your approach is counterproductive to trying to get others to recognize privilege.

In a way, you are actually promoting what many conservative males already think. That is to say, any sort of complaints about disadvantages or privileges is simply whining, because we live in the land of the free and the home of the brave. A veritable perfect meritocracy. If a conservative guy complains he didn't get what he wanted because he's male, he's liable to be made fun of by his conservative friends as a "wimp" (or usually worse).

And they would definitely call you a whiner for talking about privilege. So why emulate them?

Indeed, if a guy complains about male disadvantages he faces, that's already a sign he has a small inkling that perhaps society is not a perfect meritocracy. That's a perfect opportunity to not only aknowledge and commisserate, but to then use it to point out privilege and disadvantages elsewhere.

Many men have a hard time understanding privilege because they are rejected out of hand by some that see privilege. It's ironic I suppose, if not sad. They are told to recognize privilege and at the same time stop their whining. What a horrible mixed message to be giving.

Seems like a strawman...

since I don't know of a significant group of progressives or liberals supporting Ron Paul, and indeed, Tim Wise fails to provide who these progressives and liberals are.

But, there is never a group more easy to bash than "certain white liberals". Hell, even conservatives know this. They're the worst of the worst. Privileged and rightous yet secretly conservative seems to always be the charge. Conservatives think of them as weenie traitors. And people like Tim Wise think of them as inherently flawed, earnesty naive, and more dangerous than conservatives, who at least are open about their inherent inability to do right.

In some ways, but then again, so are men...

I think the best thing that could happen is for more men to recognize their disadvantages for being male. It would make it easier to recognize their privileges by at least recognizing that society promotes certian inequalities.

Recognizing one's privileges, no matter where they come from, is generally harder to do than one's underprivilege or disadvantage.

I think anyone who says that males cannot be underprivileged or disadvantaged as a group are not only wrong, but being counterproductive by sort of encouraging men to be in the dark about privilege. (This goes for other groups as well, like whites)

And women (as well as men) need to be more aware of their privileges.

Males generally have the most privileges in most situations in the US at this time between genders, though not always and not in all areas. Some of them are even aware of the disadvantages of being male. Instead of telling males that they have no disadvantages, which isn't true, it should be embraced by others that they have disadvantages, then used as a way to explain that many other groups (like women) face even greater disadvantages, things that they don't have to, things, which in fact, are privileges.

If their disadvantages aren't aknowledged or are dismissed out of hand, you're going to have a hard time having them recognize your disadvantages, or even the whole system of inequality and privilege.

Hell, it's bad enough that many people are too proud in the US to even admit that our society has privileges and disadvantaged groups.

I usually don't think racism has much to do with it...

as much as bigotry. I think a lot of people who are bigots are so because of stereotypes they hold to be true rather than ascribing to racism as an ideology.

Here's another one called "Shit Girls Say to Gay Guys"

I usually find that these videos actually poke fun at bigoted assumptions by presenting what some may not find as offensive from a different perspective, as the cameraman, putting the viewer in the shoes of a black woman or gay guy in this instance.

I don't know if I find the OP's video as funny only because I'm not a black woman and really haven't seen white girls say this kind of stuff to black women, but I bet it's funny as hell to black women who have had to deal with that situation. And, I still think it's quite funny. But being a white guy, it's not a situation I have to deal with and just haven't happened to see.

I find the one I posted to be more funny only because it's more relateable. I am not gay, but an ex-girlfriend of mine was friends with a lot of girls that would hang out with gay guys, and so much of it rang true. I remember being annoyed at some of how her friends acted towards gay guys, and I never could see myself acting in a similar or reversed way to my lesbian friend, mostly because it seemed to be somewhat offensive in some ways. There was a lot of stereotyping I guess you could say.

In a way, these videos present a bigoted idea of a white woman in the OP's video or just women who are friends with gay guys in mine, but I think this is done more to lay bare to those doing the stereotyping how it can be hurtful.

How do we do custom avatars?

Do you have to subscribe? I can't find it in my profie.
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