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Member since: Thu Jul 24, 2008, 05:59 PM
Number of posts: 5,018

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Childhood indoctrination is child abuse

And this guy excuses it in the name of religion.

Amina is an anti-religion hater and bigot...

obviously. Doesn't she know there are moderate Muslims out there that use terrible logic and cherry-picking, not to mention reams of intellectual dishonesty and cognitive dissonance, to fit their religious text with modern morality and ideas? This makes all of her criticism of Islam bigoted, hate-filled neo-imperalist propaganda.

For Fuck's Sake, "Anti-religious hatred and bigotry"? What ignorant bullshit!

There is NOTHING WRONG with criticizing religion. Given that Islam and Christianity, the two biggest, are both inherently misogynistic and oppressive in a whole host of ways through their religious text, and given that their holy books have disgusting, vile, horrible shit all throughout them, YOU WILL hear all sorts of criticism of these belief systems on a progressive forum.

It is NOT "being an asshole" to criticize these belief systems.

The FACT that quite a few Christians and Muslims in the developed world have had to come to grips with their belief systems and moderate their beliefs through constant intellectual dishonesty and cognitive dissonance doesn't change what the belief systems are, it doesn't change what is written in the religious texts, and it doesn't change the flaw in faith-based beliefs.

Your "concern" is nothing more than a defense of the millenia-long MASSIVE PRIVILEGE religion gets in comparison to every idea, philosophy, or belief system out there as somehow being protected from harsh criticism. Well FUCK THAT.

I hear nobody complaining on here about incredibly harsh criticism of the Republican Party platform. Do you know why? Because it's perfectly rational and relevant. What make religions special? Anyone? Bueller?

There is no such thing as "anti-religious hatred", that's like saying "anti-austerity hatred" or some other made up crap. It's a way to try to label criticism of an idea as somehow impolite. And there certainly isn't anything bigoted with rationally criticizing a belief system.

As for the story, I'm glad that most Christians and Muslims and Jews etc. in the US pretty much don't believe most of or follow most of their own belief system or religious texts, that they cherry-pick the progressive sentiments and ignore the conservative ones in many instances, because if they were more consistent, it would be a pretty terrible place. But I have no problem pointing out that their belief system is still terrible, and their use of intellectual dishonesty, cognitive dissonance, and irrational apologetics does nothing to change that fact, it proves the point.

Faith-based thinking is dangerous and bad for society, and I will always point that out, and it's not being an asshole to do so. Calling those who fairly and rationally criticize belief systems "assholes" and "bigots" is stupid ignorant shit.

I'm sure Pope Francis will amend this injustice immediatly...

and also kick out all the child raping priests and those who enabled them. I mean, he did wash the feet of women.

If you believe indoctrinating children is child abuse...

then religion does it quite often.

What qualifies as "child abuse" is subjective, but most would see the indoctrination of children in most anything other than religion as a form of it, but religion gets a pass, mainly because of tradition, and because many people view it through a rather slanted worldview in the US.

What anecdotes or cherry-picking did I provide?

I think it's perfectly reasonable to say that the vast majority of religious institutions out there state "God exists" as though it were fact as part of their religious services, at the very least, which is of course indoctrination. Some go a lot further than that, a lot do actually, but just at the basic level, I can't think of many that don't. Unitarians maybe?

You only have to look at the official creeds of religions, which they often state at religious services, to see that almost all of them present God as fact. I think that's perfectly logical, resonable evidence, one that does not have any cherry picking outliers or anecdotes as part of it.

Why is it overstated? nt

I view Islam the same way I view all horrible belief systems based on faith...

I'm sick of Muslims or Christians or any other religion disowning every terrorist that claims to be Muslim and Christian etc. perpetrating terrorism based on religion. No, it don't work that way. And yes, there are Muslims that view these terrorists as wonderful people, serving the cause well. No, lying to yourself about it doesn't change the facts. And yes, your belief systems are based on texts that have terrible, horrible destruction and maiming in them, and obviously, all the intellectual reworking/dishonesty to try to spitshine these vile texts isn't quite enough to erase what they are, and so some people will use them to do the things that are stated in the texts, the ones you keep proclaiming are divinely inspired and perfect.

Please, question all religion and dump this horribly destructive way of thinking. It's a plague on humanity.

Oh, and quite the fail on analogies. The WBC? They're viewed as an annoyance by Christians, not as terrorists. The WBC hasn't blown people away, though they ARE being consistent with Biblical teachings, and that's they scary part.

It's the difference between indoctrination and education...

Indoctrination is telling your child there is a God as a matter of fact, when it's a matter of belief. Indoctrination is done with the intent that the child won't question what is being told to them, and in fact will be discouraged from questioning it, and when they do question it, will not get any real answers.

One can educate children on what various religions believe, and is probably necessary and helpful to do so, and if you subscribe to one, telling your child you believe that way is fine, and even why you believe that way when they're old enough to understand and think critically, but you should be mindful you don't tell them that's the only way to believe, or that if they don't believe that way they're going to hell, those are all forms of indoctrination, through threats or otherwise.

As for bringing them to any religious institutions, I don't know of many who don't do indoctrination 24/7, so bringing them is simply exposing them to indoctrination by third parties.

One day childhood religious indoctrination will be seen as child abuse...

by most everyone, and I think that day is rapidly approaching, finally.

I'm through being "polite", what's impolite is not pointing out child abuse.
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