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Member since: Sat Jun 13, 2009, 06:39 PM
Number of posts: 7,018

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What do you think you'll be getting in return when you vote for either Sanders or Clinton?

My understanding is that Sanders will be trying to live up to the promises he
is making now during his presidential campaign, but these will be just the first
step only. We all know the tremendous difficulty of fighting the Corporate Power
people and their followers.

I personally think that not much can get done by ANY PRESIDENT during his/her
first term. If Sanders wins, he and Elizabeth Warren will be spending much of their
time getting more Progressives into the Senate and House. They'll need a large
majority in Congress to get those necessary bills passed. Right now, the GOP has
both of these Houses. Sanders would be able to get the more minor issues
accomplished, not the major ones.

If Sanders and Warren succeed in getting a large enough majority after his first term,
then things will start popping in his second. At least they will try. Bringing down the
crooked big bankers, pharmaceutical and insurance companies is one of their goals.
It will take time. Meanwhile these business corporations will continue to rob the
American people blind. But Sanders and Warren will, at least, be trying to bring
them down. Clinton won't. She is profiting along with them. And our nation will
continue to decay. This is continuing the present "status quo."

Nothing comes easy. But, at least, try to make the right choice when you vote, and
try to understand what it is you are voting for.

I've had the same ideas as Clinton for the past 50 years, that both Israel and Palestine have

the right to exist and live in peace and prosperity as separate nations. I agree with her there.

What I'm worried about are the huge problems going on in our own nation right now:

We've been involved in wars in the Middle East, Latin America and other parts of the world
almost non-stop since the end of World War II. And Clinton has the reputation of a war-hawk.
Sanders would use war only as a last resort. He would prefer to try all the other means first.

Corporate Power execs. have made it sure that our Congress people enacted laws that would
favor Big Business corporations with paying little or no taxes. What they should have been
paying has been passed on to the rest of the nation. As a result, over the past 4 decades, the
Middle Classes have been dying out. (And the Middle Classes are the backbone of our nation.
They are the ones who come up with most of the ideas and work for making new products, as
well as supplying the services). The poor people are getting poorer, and the Super-Rich
Corporatists are becoming ever more super-rich. Much of bribery and corruption have now
become legalized. And our country has not only gone downhill, it actually is in the gutter. The
only people who have made profits hand over fist are the few super-rich. I don't think Clinton
is going to reform this state of affairs. She is going to maintain the status quo. She, too, is
benefiting from the Corporate Power people. Sanders seems to be the only presidential
candidate who has the courage to state clearly that, as president, he would bring down
Wall Street to size. Sanders is for equal opportunity for all.

Racial prejudice against people of color have improved over the past century, but not
nearly enough. Systematized racial attitudes towards minorities continue to flourish
in many areas of our country. The contemptuous and insulting way with which some of our
Republican leaders are treating Pres. Obama, just because he is a black man, is simply
disgraceful. Some of these leaders don't even have common good manners. African Americans
know that the Clintons have made progress in improving this situation, but many of them don't
know that Sanders has been fighting for racial equality throughout his political career. He had
also marched with Martin Luther King during his student days, and has been a member of the
Congress for Racial Equality for a long time.

Reform is severely needed all the way down the line, if our nation is to survive and remain
strong. And Bernie Sanders is the man best suited to do this. He is honest, has integrity, and
can be trusted to do his best for ALL the American people -- not just for the few rich!

Great post!! Yes, Bernie is the only presidential candidate who has the honesty, integrity and

daring to come straight out and challenge the greatest evil that has been plaguing America for
the past 40 years. Bernie has thrown down the gauntlet at Corporate America!!

Have the elections and vote-counting been always fair and square - especialy the close ones?

Last week a Sanders supporter wrote here that she was taking part in the vote-count
at Polk County. When the results showed Sanders had 600 votes and Clinton 540, the
Clinton supporters asked the Sanders people to leave the premises, so that they could
count the votes alone!

Can there be any more direct admission than this that they were going to commit fraud
if left alone? How much more openly dumb than this can anyone get? I doubt it that
they did this out of stupidity. It's more likely they were so sure of receiving support
from higher up, that they just didn't give a damn. Maybe they were even rubbing it
in the faces of the Sanders people.

I am just wondering how widespread is this practice going on? If it happened at Polk
County, it could also happen anywhere else. Do the Sanders people insist on being
present to observe every single vote count? Are they also on the look-out for every
other imaginable type of dirty tricks? And can they do anything about them?

DWS's dirty scheduling of the Democratic Primary debates is known to everyone.

Hillary winning 6 out of 6 coin tosses. (There is 1 chance in 64 of winning all 6
tosses straight).

With these 3 examples staring at us in the face, how much fairness can Progressive
Democrats expect to receive from the Dem. Establishment, who make no bones about
favoring Clinton?



"For once we have a candidate for The Rest of Us and

<< For ONCE we have a candidate for The Rest of Us and the party establishment does everything they can to discourage him.

The Democratic party has got to be aware of this trend. It appears they don't want to face it. Very backward thinking. >>

Orders from the Corporate Power people, perhaps? Bernie is out to cut down the Big Banks
to size, reform our present way of elections so that money will no longer play a role, have public universities charge no tuition fees ........ and so many other reforms that will reduce the
profits and power of the Corporate Power people. No way are they going to take it lying down.
They definitely are doing everything they can to get Bernie out.

We should also take into consideration that large numbers of Democrats have

left their Party because they could no longer take the status quo policy of the
Third Way Democrats who are in power now. Many have joined the Independents.
My guess is that these probably are among the ones who crossed over and helped
Bernie to win in Michigan, for example. I imagine most of the Democrats who left
their Party probably were Progressives. And the Democratic Establishment of
today has become largely made up of Third Way Democrats.

The Independents have recently become the largest "party" - larger than either
the Democratic or Republican Parties. Many dissatisfied Republicans have joined
the Independents, too. Yet, because the Independents are made up of many
smaller political entities, that most likely are not interested in and not capable of
uniting, it has not become a genuine political entity. I wonder if this situation will
gradually evolve and change into something else some day, although from my
present perspective, I don't see how this can be accomplished.

In Florida today 9,000 people attended Bernie's rally, whereas Hillary's rally

drew about 600. What would you think if next week's elections should show
a Hillary win in Florida?

There are already complaints of questionable election methods used in Polk
County, Iowa, on the part of Hillary supporters.


The Corporate Power People will never admit this - especially not to themselves: By killing

off the middle-classes, they are making profits hand over fist - but only INITIALLY. The
middle-classes are the ones who are coming out with the new ideas and inventing new
products. The corporate business execs. simply manipulate money to make more money.
They provide neither services nor can they invent new products. Most of the creative
and productive work are done by the middle-class people. The wealth of any nation
depends upon having enough middle-class people doing the creative and productive
work, which the elites, themselves, are not capable of doing. These dumb-assed
corporate elites don't even realize that they need the middle-classes for their own wealth
to keep on growing.

When the point of having too few middle-class people in the nation has been reached,
the productivity of our country can't help but go downhill. There will be less profits
for everyone -- including the Corporate Power people.

I don't think Hillary Clinton understands this point. She, too, sees no further than the
immediate profit that can be made now, and that is why she is so pally with Wall Street.

Bernie Sanders is the only one among the presidential candidates who is trying to make
sure that what we are doing today will not serve to destroy us in the future.

I also think it's possible that some of the psychopathic CEOs might not even care what
happens to our country in the future. They're focused only on the profit and the power
that can be bought with that profit RIGHT NOW. Nothing else matters to them.

I wonder if this makes any sense at all to the Hillary supporters here at DU. Is what I
am describing here right or wrong? If it does make some sense, isn't it about time to
make a change?

The rise and rule of Third-Wayers in the Democratic Party in the past 3+ decades

have resulted in not much else but failure. Third-Wayers just don't know how
to handle socio- and psychopaths. Appeasing them does no good at all. It
only makes them hungrier and wanting still more. There is no end to their
greed. It's a case of "give them an inch and they'll take a mile." Third-Wayers
have never learned this lesson: Sociopaths do respond to fear of punishment,
like anybody else. Don't appease them, but sock it to them when they break
the law. There is no other way of dealing with them.

A few examples of Third-Way or Republican-lite policies that resulted in harm
to us, the American people, over the past 3 decades:

1. Outsourcing of jobs to foreign countries by the millions for cheap labor,
which has increased the rate of joblessness at home.

2. Transfer of wealth from the middle-classes to the super-rich to an
extent never seen before, making the rich richer and the poor poorer.
Corporate Power people love this one, but they never even thank you.
They only want more -- and non-stop.

3. Loss of both Houses of Congress to the Republicans.

4. Loss of the majority of governorships to the Republicans.

5. The Corporations have become stronger than ever, enabling them to
increase their power of bribery and corruption over both Republicans and
Third-Way Democrats.

6. Corporations are capable, now more than ever, of buying politicians who
will do as these Corporate Power people tell them to do. They are the
ones who brought about the economic collapse of 2007 and 2008 in our
nation, where millions of Americans lost their homes, pharmaceutical
companies are charging Americans prices many times higher for their
products than they are charging for the same medicines abroad.

7. It is this moral degradation of America that Bernie Sanders will be
fighting against. He has promised to bring down the size of American
banks that have boasted of being "too big to fail." They are the ones
responsible for the housing scandals mentioned in paragraph 6 above
through dishonest use of their clients' money. I could go on and on,
but these examples will suffice for anyone to see - except for those who
deliberately choose to remain ignorant.

There are 3 main ways of responding to the corporations that are the
cause of the moral decline and decay of our nation:
a. Do nothing.
b. Join them and take part in the profits of their ill-gotten gains, and
c. Fight against corporate greed, corruption and lust for power. This
is what Bernie Sanders has chosen to do. And Republicans as well as
Republican-lites are afraid of him. Hence all their lies and underhanded
dealings to destroy him.

What are you choosing?

A recent Quinnipiac poll shows 67% of the people find Clinton "not honest and trustworthy,"

59% of the people find Trump "not honest and trustworthy." This shows that more people
trust Trump than Clinton!

The same poll shows 68% of the people find Bernie Sanders "honest and trustworthy."

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