General Discussion

Ken Burch

(50,254 posts)

128. That's true.

Tue Dec 19, 2017, 01:39 PM

Dec 2017

Everyone who obsesses about the Greens is doing so to deflect any discussion about what might need to be changed in THIS party.

The people who fixate on Stein(or Nader)KNOW that endless callouts about that are never going to lead to people who voted Green in the past switching to support for OUR ticket, and they know that, if anything, all that the callouts achieve is to cause people we MIGHT have won over with a reasoned, respectful, issues-based argument and with SOME responsiveness to what it is about our party that alienates them to close their ears, dig in their heels and REFUSE to listen to anything we have to say.

I absolutely agree that it's a bad idea to vote Green presidentially(in local races where the GOP isn't a factor, there's no real cause to be self-righteous about it, and the possibility exists to win votes for our presidential ticket from people who vote Green or other third-party left locally by committing our party to electoral reform measures). Equally It's a failed strategy to scream at people for doing that. People never change their voting habits as a result of being insulted and shamed.

So why stay with what we KNOW doesn't work?

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If you ever voted for a Green Party candidate, or worse, donated to one.... [View all] scheming daemons Dec 2017 OP

That is a little harsh. California_Republic Dec 2017 #1

Reality's a bit harsh, eh? tirebiter Dec 2017 #3

Lets see what the realistic choices were Lee-Lee Dec 2017 #18

Good post. yardwork Dec 2017 #37

What yardwork said. Excellent. Squinch Dec 2017 #66

That what you just said could be argued with by anyone claiming to know what is going on Eliot Rosewater Dec 2017 #126

Yup, some people really don't live in the real reality..... Historic NY Dec 2017 #127

It is not harsh at all. Demsrule86 Dec 2017 #76

Sometimes the truth is harsh. nt jrthin Dec 2017 #98

Nope...OP is not harsh BoneyardDem Dec 2017 #138

No its not, But it SHOULD be harsh as all hell. VOX Dec 2017 #152

If anything, it wasn't harsh enough. n/t musicblind Dec 2017 #199

That is harsh? sheshe2 Dec 2017 #201

But by voting Ralph Nader in 2000, climate change is far worse today. sofa king Dec 2017 #203

Respectfully disagree. H2O Man Dec 2017 #2

The OP was clearly talking about the 2016 presidential election. yardwork Dec 2017 #39

"If you ever voted" No he wasn't... nt ExciteBike66 Dec 2017 #63

So you missed the part about Jill Stein and the electorate? n/t kcr Dec 2017 #97

The post I was responding to was incorrect. ExciteBike66 Dec 2017 #101

Well kwalter66 Dec 2017 #132

"If you ever voted..." ExciteBike66 Dec 2017 #144

Here is that same OP this morning discussing a local race. ExciteBike66 Dec 2017 #190

See posts 7,8, & 13. H2O Man Dec 2017 #121

I'm not impressed. Not a fan of JPR or its approach. yardwork Dec 2017 #154

That's nice. H2O Man Dec 2017 #158

Right. It's open to the public. I read the threads there last summer. yardwork Dec 2017 #167

Okay, got it. H2O Man Dec 2017 #183

Right..how many times have you won? I would wager that had you not split the vote...the Democrats Demsrule86 Dec 2017 #78

Perhaps you might H2O Man Dec 2017 #118

You kwalter66 Dec 2017 #133

The last sentence H2O Man Dec 2017 #134

A Green is not a Democrat first of all. I did read it. I won't back Greens myself. Demsrule86 Dec 2017 #153

That's fine. H2O Man Dec 2017 #157

I respectfully disagree with your statement BoneyardDem Dec 2017 #141

Interesting. H2O Man Dec 2017 #147

You're probably the only person PDittie Dec 2017 #148

If that is true, H2O Man Dec 2017 #159

The green party crawls out from under a rock The_Casual_Observer Dec 2017 #4

That's a big 10-4 C O. demosincebirth Dec 2017 #10

Their source of funding is no longer a mystery to me. yardwork Dec 2017 #41

Bingo dalton99a Dec 2017 #91

Hopefully people won't be so stupid next time 4now Dec 2017 #5

Some will always be stupid. demosincebirth Dec 2017 #11

Agreed. You'd think after the Nader fiasco jrthin Dec 2017 #99

They will jzodda Dec 2017 #177

This message was self-deleted by its author jzodda Dec 2017 #178

A lot of people said that after Gore got the office stolen from him. Blue_true Dec 2017 #196

And all those people who helped pay for that phony recount helped. pnwmom Dec 2017 #6

Ok...it would be better if nobody had ever voted for a Green Party presidential candidate. Ken Burch Dec 2017 #7

Presidential only scheming daemons Dec 2017 #8

Thank you for clarifying. Ken Burch Dec 2017 #13

Agreed on that. Ken Burch Dec 2017 #176

Yes...voting Green means you are not suporting the Democrat...splitting the vote...and in my Demsrule86 Dec 2017 #81

I didn't do that in '16 and you know it. Ken Burch Dec 2017 #123

I never said you did...I those who voted for Greens did that. Demsrule86 Dec 2017 #151

Liz Warren needs to be burned at the stake. Crunchy Frog Dec 2017 #87

Except that you rarely see call-out threads about Dems who used to vote GOP here. Ken Burch Dec 2017 #124

Always vote for the party's nomineee. Always!! NurseJackie Dec 2017 #96

This message was self-deleted by its author flotsam Dec 2017 #9

And, once again I have to wonder... bluecollar2 Dec 2017 #12

OFFS. This again? Why not blame Union Members. 42% of them voted for trump. progressoid Dec 2017 #14

Amen. shanny Dec 2017 #19

Do Greens/Trump for president ever look in a mirror? ollie10 Dec 2017 #64

Greens for Trump? wot? shanny Dec 2017 #104

A vote for Green is a vote for Trump ollie10 Dec 2017 #105

People get to vote for whomever the eff they like. shanny Dec 2017 #108

Yes, and you get to vote in such a way as to elect Trump if you want ollie10 Dec 2017 #112

That's what freedom means, isn't it? shanny Dec 2017 #114

I don't know what your point is.... ollie10 Dec 2017 #117

My point is that people get to vote for whomever they want. shanny Dec 2017 #142

A vote for Jill Stein was a vote for trump Gothmog Dec 2017 #139

That's true. Ken Burch Dec 2017 #128

Tens of millions weren't even registered at all. Orsino Dec 2017 #23

I do blame any who voted for Trump...as for 'registered' Democrats...people change but don't Demsrule86 Dec 2017 #109

Well said Champion Jack Dec 2017 #146

Not this again... chwaliszewski Dec 2017 #15

I don't know why you have a soft spot for the Greens, but I hate to break it to you, we're not DanTex Dec 2017 #136

I can't speak for chwaliszewski, but it's not about having a soft spot for Greens. It's about progressoid Dec 2017 #149

If it were really about "not wasting time" then the Green defenders here wouldn't waste their DanTex Dec 2017 #150

Exactly! chwaliszewski Dec 2017 #163

I'm not looking for a "Green Party love fest" at all. Ken Burch Dec 2017 #155

Would you say the same thing about Trump voters? DanTex Dec 2017 #160

We are far less likely to reach MOST people who voted for Trump. Ken Burch Dec 2017 #161

Yeah, I don't think the "we hear you" thing is going to make much difference. DanTex Dec 2017 #165

How dare you? chwaliszewski Dec 2017 #164

So in other words, it's impossible to even consider third parties?? stevepal Dec 2017 #16

The Greens are dead to me ...fuck them...Stein may finally get caught this time...hope she Demsrule86 Dec 2017 #84

yes. Lil Missy Dec 2017 #125

Yes. If you vote 3rd party, you are helping the worst of the 2 parties. scheming daemons Dec 2017 #185

I disagree jimlup Dec 2017 #17

Supporting Greens in safe blue states helps them get momentum to get votes in battleground states Lee-Lee Dec 2017 #21

I agree with your analysis Gothmog Dec 2017 #140

I wonder if you've ever considered jimlup Dec 2017 #171

Oh Ive questioned many things Lee-Lee Dec 2017 #173

See this is a bit of a problem jimlup Dec 2017 #175

What are you trying to say here? Lee-Lee Dec 2017 #192

I'm saying jimlup Dec 2017 #198

sorry freddyvh Dec 2017 #20

Sure- and everyone is allowed to tell them how stupid a vote it was too Lee-Lee Dec 2017 #22

that's your right freddyvh Dec 2017 #24

Except your on a website all about Democrats and the Democratic Party Lee-Lee Dec 2017 #25

Post removed Post removed Dec 2017 #27

This is a site for Democratic supporters. Read the TOS. Then read the definition of censorship. SMH. Squinch Dec 2017 #29

Post removed Post removed Dec 2017 #31

Again, it is against the TOS to support non Democrats. Unlike you, I have read the TOS. Squinch Dec 2017 #33

fine freddyvh Dec 2017 #35

When you compare support for Democrats to Trumpism, you are supporting non-Democrats. Squinch Dec 2017 #38

oh freddyvh Dec 2017 #42

I gave you three. Yes, I am saying we vote for Democrats and not other parties. As is Squinch Dec 2017 #43

Post removed Post removed Dec 2017 #44

Careful freddy, the long knives are out. JackInGreen Dec 2017 #45

Post removed Post removed Dec 2017 #46

LOL! Aren't you the brave little toaster. Though your TOS reading skills are limited. Squinch Dec 2017 #50

I suppose the TOS is a long knife, now? Squinch Dec 2017 #48

Oh brother! NurseJackie Dec 2017 #107

And they often use their votes self-destructively, as the OP is pointing out, giving us Trump(R). Squinch Dec 2017 #28

then keep them off the ballot freddyvh Dec 2017 #30

I have no power to do that. What I do have the power to do is come to a website that Squinch Dec 2017 #32

the original post wasn't encouragement freddyvh Dec 2017 #34

You are not getting it. This is a site for people who support the Democratic Party and who Squinch Dec 2017 #36

Post removed Post removed Dec 2017 #40

LOL. Is this the new talking point tactic? Once again: This is a site for those who support the Squinch Dec 2017 #47

so freddyvh Dec 2017 #49

You really do seem to have some trouble understanding. The TOS seems very hard for you. Squinch Dec 2017 #51

Post removed Post removed Dec 2017 #52

Do read the TOS. It would do you good. Squinch Dec 2017 #54

i have freddyvh Dec 2017 #56

Maybe read it again. Absorb it, so its rules don't upset you so. Squinch Dec 2017 #58

yep freddyvh Dec 2017 #59

Saying "you're closed minded if you only vote for Democrats" is not supporting Democrats at Squinch Dec 2017 #60

Wow. For the record, I only alerted on one of your posts to me. You've really annoyed some folks. Squinch Dec 2017 #73

### NurseJackie Dec 2017 #120

Comparing DU to Fox News is a direct TOS violation! revmclaren Dec 2017 #53

if only i did freddyvh Dec 2017 #55

Well, you have some mighty righty opinions revmclaren Dec 2017 #61

Watch out! He's going to call you names now! Squinch Dec 2017 #57

Not anymore.... revmclaren Dec 2017 #74

I just saw that! I went to check on the progress of my one alert on his replies to me and found Squinch Dec 2017 #75

The green party is about money for their so-called leaders; not the environment. democratisphere Dec 2017 #26

Money and attention Lee-Lee Dec 2017 #62

Isn't Stein one of those who has Russian ties? ollie10 Dec 2017 #65

Yes, she's in picture at a party in Russia seated with Putin and Flynn. n/t. whathehell Dec 2017 #68

She is also about to be interviewed by Mueller. Demsrule86 Dec 2017 #85

What about the folks who sent Jill Stein money for the recount? oberliner Dec 2017 #67

Well, It Does Make Them Suckers ProfessorGAC Dec 2017 #90

Yep oberliner Dec 2017 #102

She's slime, but I sent her money with my eyes open. Hortensis Dec 2017 #166

She was supposedly going to use the leftover money to create a voter integrity organization oberliner Dec 2017 #168

Oh, no surprise to that. BUT, the media had immediately Hortensis Dec 2017 #184

Understood oberliner Dec 2017 #186

Sure, we knew she would though. Hardly the only money Hortensis Dec 2017 #189

If youve spent your time in an endless blame game G_j Dec 2017 #69

I disagree. Iggo Dec 2017 #71

Agreed, same old sit stirring bahrbearian Dec 2017 #79

Ever? Iggo Dec 2017 #70

I agree with the analysis in the OP Gothmog Dec 2017 #72

+1000! mcar Dec 2017 #77

Fuck Stein. Fuck Nader. Fuck everyone who voted for them. we can do it Dec 2017 #80

K&R stonecutter357 Dec 2017 #82

Post removed Post removed Dec 2017 #83

If you ever voted wrong in your entire life, you're irredeemable. Crunchy Frog Dec 2017 #86

This approach should really help attract voters. jalan48 Dec 2017 #88

k&R betsuni Dec 2017 #89

Rove funded Nader in 2000 and 2004 for a reason Gothmog Dec 2017 #92

This older+wiser Nader 2000 fanatic tried to warn folks... Blue_Tires Dec 2017 #93

I would never do it for POTUS, but locally treestar Dec 2017 #94

Im glad you didnt vote for the Republican. David__77 Dec 2017 #110

I would never do that! treestar Dec 2017 #129

If one person in Newport News voted for a 3rd party instead of the Dem... scheming daemons Dec 2017 #187

I know, but in mine there was no Democrat treestar Dec 2017 #193

We Democrats need to stand up for our values ollie10 Dec 2017 #95

I object to "ever" as I have voted for a Green when we weren't fielding a Dem. moriah Dec 2017 #100

Damn straight. Its a two party system, like it or not. Auggie Dec 2017 #103

I have the idea some here are more receptive to ex-GOP voters than ex-Green voters. David__77 Dec 2017 #106

He was not a Republican though... And the other candidate in the primary voted to restrict Demsrule86 Dec 2017 #113

No, I dont think so. David__77 Dec 2017 #116

Great question. jalan48 Dec 2017 #115

DU Rec... SidDithers Dec 2017 #111

K & R!!! to ETERNITY! JHan Dec 2017 #119

I never vote Green, even though I am often ideologically alligned with them Tom Rinaldo Dec 2017 #122

What has Jill Stein ever accomplished in electoral politics...... Historic NY Dec 2017 #130

She hasn't accomplished anything and I don't defend anything she does. Ken Burch Dec 2017 #156

Exactly Historic NY Dec 2017 #174

I thought there was a rule in DU that we can't bash 3rd parties. Corvo Bianco Dec 2017 #131

I voted for one, a long time ago Bettie Dec 2017 #135

Have always Clarity2 Dec 2017 #137

Also... THOSE WHO PROTECT, SHIELD and DEFEND them are also IDIOTS!! NurseJackie Dec 2017 #143

Half the country doesn't bother to vote at all! alarimer Dec 2017 #145

The Stein voters COULD have voted for Clinton. VOX Dec 2017 #169

Seem to Jamaal510 Dec 2017 #162

Even worse than if you voted Republican, because.... milestogo Dec 2017 #170

Amen! A vote for the Greens is vote for the GOP. PragmaticDem Dec 2017 #172

Actually, your statement is incorrect. chwaliszewski Dec 2017 #181

No my statement s correct. PragmaticDem Dec 2017 #188

We can agree to disagree on this. chwaliszewski Dec 2017 #191

Lets look at all the great things the Greens have given us jzodda Dec 2017 #179

Yes! And anyone objecting to your message is not here as an ally. The Greens are an oppositional... Tarheel_Dem Dec 2017 #180

I agree. Greens and anyone that subscribe to their philosophy are our rivals. Blue_true Dec 2017 #197

What has little chance of getting people to listen to you? Dorian Gray Dec 2017 #182

Oh, stop pouting and get to work. aikoaiko Dec 2017 #194

Couldn't Wisconsin have been flipped also? nt Blue_true Dec 2017 #195

Never forget. musicblind Dec 2017 #200

She's suspect, that's for sure flamingdem Dec 2017 #202