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169. my suffering neighbors in Colorado

Reply to Ichingcarpenter (Original post)

Sun Jul 22, 2012, 05:28 PM

Jul 2012

I read the long, reasonable, and well-thought out tweet by Jason and hoped it might elicit some interesting responses from the good DU people. Then I read the responses and was truly shocked at the level of the discussion. And I realized why most victims and their families in preventable tragedies rarely stand up and say "Never Again". I lost my dear 25 year-old son in a small plane crash. My family sued the manufacturers of the plane after we learned that they knew of a design flaw in the engine that had caused other "accidents." We never thought "If you pay us we will keep quiet" or "If the FAA makes them fix these planes all planes will be grounded." We said: "Fix this-- so no one else will have to suffer as we have suffered." Our neighbors in Aurora and around the nation need to say: "Don't let our children die in vain; change and enforce gun laws and regulations. " But despite the thousands of gun accidents and murders, we all know we have no chance of being heard by our local, state, or federal government above the screaming of gunlovers and the "free speech" money of the NRA.

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Jason Alexander long twit on Assault Weapons [View all] Ichingcarpenter Jul 2012 OP

"despite the 100,000 Americans that die every year due to domestic gun violence" is not true! Logical Jul 2012 #1

I'm sure he believes every word he wrote... ileus Jul 2012 #2

I'm glad you are happy with 10,000 Ichingcarpenter Jul 2012 #6

I am not happy with ONE. But bullshit lies to make a point does not help matters. get it? Logical Jul 2012 #9

When is a typo == bullshit lie? paparush Jul 2012 #20

A "typo" is a bullshit lie when it goes uncorrected and gets intentionally propagated to copies slackmaster Jul 2012 #27

Soon We'll Reach 100,000 Deaths Per Year otohara Jul 2012 #38

With rates of violent crime of all kinds going down, it's going to be a long wait slackmaster Jul 2012 #39

Patience Grasshopper otohara Jul 2012 #75

It sounds like you WANT that to happen slackmaster Jul 2012 #78

I'll be happy if present trends continue. AlbertCat Jul 2012 #92

Yeah, we've heard that before. Atypical Liberal Jul 2012 #191

It does matter, where did you get 10,000? A Simple Game Jul 2012 #57

Well, you are wrong. Simple to find. Where is your wrong link?? Logical Jul 2012 #96

100,000 SHOT iamthebandfanman Jul 2012 #133

LOL, minor error. Dead / Wounded close enough. Logical Jul 2012 #135

I didn't think you could prove the 10,000 number. A Simple Game Jul 2012 #143

Jesus, WTF is wrong with you. Once again you let Brady make you look foolish..... Logical Jul 2012 #154

Well one of us looks foolish. You're talking about homicides while A Simple Game Jul 2012 #168

LOL, you like looking foolish? You said I could not prove the 10,000 number and I did..... Logical Jul 2012 #170

I shouldn't have to do this, after all it was your post. A Simple Game Jul 2012 #178

Again, the OP is not just about domestic gun violence, but DEATHS due to domestic gun violence. Atypical Liberal Jul 2012 #193

You missed a word. "die". Atypical Liberal Jul 2012 #192

I know how many die each year. That is not my quote. A Simple Game Jul 2012 #209

It was probably a typo. But his essay is excellent. kellytore Jul 2012 #152

I assume it was a typo and glad he corrected it. n-t Logical Jul 2012 #171

This is what the morally bankrupt do. 99Forever Jul 2012 #24

+1000 thank you! Nt abelenkpe Jul 2012 #32

Exactly, he gun nuts have found their error... joeybee12 Jul 2012 #91

Sigh - there they go again. calimary Jul 2012 #222

I'm with you! Rainngirl Jul 2012 #226

Exactly. NO ONE needs an assault rifle unless they're planning a mass killing. calimary Jul 2012 #227

Inflating the statistics by an order of magnitude 4th law of robotics Jul 2012 #25

and so, indigoth Jul 2012 #41

Nice try at deflection 4th law of robotics Jul 2012 #45

you can substantiate "lying"? . . . you know he was "lying"? DrDan Jul 2012 #61

I've seen it enough to know 4th law of robotics Jul 2012 #63

so your justified in accusing him of lying . . . gotcha DrDan Jul 2012 #66

Perfect Pizz Jul 2012 #79

"one is two" LiberalLovinLug Jul 2012 #146

The argument isn't whether typos discredit an entire argument 4th law of robotics Jul 2012 #153

Yes, that is the argument demwing Jul 2012 #156

He made a statement that was factually untrue 4th law of robotics Jul 2012 #158

factually untrue =/= intentionally untrue demwing Jul 2012 #161

Proof that someone is lying? 4th law of robotics Jul 2012 #162

"Given the nature of the topic" demwing Jul 2012 #185

If "inflating statistics" was not purposeful.... LiberalLovinLug Jul 2012 #165

These facts are tried and tested and put our problem in perspective. JDPriestly Jul 2012 #157

Well Jesus Christ, violence has gone down every year for decades! Atypical Liberal Jul 2012 #194

OK. No problem. Now what do you think that our society could do to end these massacres? JDPriestly Jul 2012 #212

Just how low is the bar going to be set that I have to meet? Atypical Liberal Jul 2012 #223

Let's get our gun violence down to the level of other developed countries. JDPriestly Jul 2012 #224

That will never happen without restricting our firearm ownership rights to that of other countries. Atypical Liberal Jul 2012 #225

Excellent post, JDPriestly! calimary Jul 2012 #196

You are more likely to be killed by a drunk driver than by a firearm Travis_0004 Jul 2012 #211

i wonder... druidity33 Jul 2012 #214

it is probably at least 100,000 worldwide larkrake Jul 2012 #8

He said "100,000 Americans" Logical Jul 2012 #10

100k people in America are KILLED or WOUNDED by guns each year. progressivebydesign Jul 2012 #130

I agree! Logical Jul 2012 #134

Phew, thank jebus it's only 10 thousand dead Americans per year. tridim Jul 2012 #16

You sound like Fix News being OK with wrong stats. Congrats! Logical Jul 2012 #97

So if it were 100,000 dead you would support stricter gun laws, right? girl gone mad Jul 2012 #150

I am in favor of them now. Please list ONE that would have stopped this shooting. n-t Logical Jul 2012 #151

This message was self-deleted by its author bupkus Jul 2012 #47

Nice try, murders are under 10,000. Sucides make up the rest. Keep trying. Logical Jul 2012 #98

Do you have any idea how ridiculous your post sounds? Zoeisright Jul 2012 #118

Only you would think murders and suicides are the same. Do you understand how stupid that sounds? Logical Jul 2012 #137

This message was self-deleted by its author bupkus Jul 2012 #173

so you are going to blame guns for people killing themselves? n-t Logical Jul 2012 #176

Does that one mistake really make any difference to his point? drm604 Jul 2012 #51

This message was self-deleted by its author bupkus Jul 2012 #73

So sadly true. ONE is too many. calimary Jul 2012 #198

I didn't say it did. Bug misleading is still misleading! Logical Jul 2012 #99

Your bugs were mislead, but not mine. greyl Jul 2012 #124

Rife with errors. AtheistCrusader Jul 2012 #177

Sure and the Republicans need to check the Democrats political ads for accuracy before they are run. RC Jul 2012 #216

False dichotomy. AtheistCrusader Jul 2012 #218

The dichotomy is accurate. It fits all too well. RC Jul 2012 #219

Perhaps you should read the thread. AtheistCrusader Jul 2012 #220

no but it's sure brought out the true colors of some DUers here. progressivebydesign Jul 2012 #127

This message was self-deleted by its author bupkus Jul 2012 #174

Yeah, funny how some of us care about accuracy and truth. AtheistCrusader Jul 2012 #183

You are correct, that the statistics he cited were in error. grantcart Jul 2012 #70

We are so used to citing Wikipedia ... I like that source but look what I found rosesaylavee Jul 2012 #114

Maybe he added in South liberalmike27 Jul 2012 #74

Bradycampaign: Almost 100,000 people in America are shot each year. DCBob Jul 2012 #81

WTF, read his damn quote. "100,000 Americans die each year". unbelievable. Logical Jul 2012 #101

WTF?? I didnt say his quote was correct. Can't you read??.. unbelievable. DCBob Jul 2012 #110

Logical is being irrational Scootaloo Jul 2012 #163

This message was self-deleted by its author bupkus Jul 2012 #175

Yea, 10 thousand ain't bad as long as one of those 10,000 isn't anyone I care about. Pizz Jul 2012 #82

Post removed Post removed Jul 2012 #87

I knew that number was incorrect xxqqqzme Jul 2012 #89

Over 100k Americans are killed OR wounded each year in America. progressivebydesign Jul 2012 #132

OK, OK. xxqqqzme Jul 2012 #187

Correction rawtribe Jul 2012 #90

Good for him. And I agree the numbers still suck. Logical Jul 2012 #102

100k are killed or wounded, suicided. Does that make you happier? n/t progressivebydesign Jul 2012 #123

wow PatrynXX Jul 2012 #164

small potatoes compared to the rest of his article. Weird you focus on that pasto76 Jul 2012 #179

You sound like fox news. 10,000, 100,000, 1 million, who cares. Logical Jul 2012 #181

du rec. nt xchrom Jul 2012 #3

Wow. BumRushDaShow Jul 2012 #4

DU Rec for Pompous Assery. I stopped taking it seriously at "100,000." slackmaster Jul 2012 #5

100,000 incidents of death or injury with guns per annum in the USA. greyl Jul 2012 #120

Outrage built upon a huge lie hack89 Jul 2012 #7

He corrected the figure, which was really like the difference between purple and maroon to me. greyl Jul 2012 #119

I agree with President Obama that the 2A supports an individual right. Take it up with him. nt hack89 Jul 2012 #126

The overall meaning of the points he made wasn't affected at all by the erroneous figure. greyl Jul 2012 #138

Besides the fact that his screed has no basis in actual history hack89 Jul 2012 #140

Not this part: greyl Aug 2012 #228

The same could be said about knives and baseball bats hack89 Aug 2012 #229

Anything can be said about anything, but what you suggest is very dumb. nt greyl Aug 2012 #230

I made no suggestion hack89 Aug 2012 #231

You suggested a false equivalency (popular lately.) greyl Aug 2012 #232

Just putting the real threat in perspective hack89 Aug 2012 #233

Would you like to start somewhere, or not start at all? nt greyl Aug 2012 #234

The real question is whether to start with something effective hack89 Aug 2012 #235

"outrage built upon a huge lie" LiberalLovinLug Jul 2012 #147

Not outrage - just amusement hack89 Jul 2012 #148

Yeah its a laugh riot LiberalLovinLug Jul 2012 #167

The shooting was an indescribable tragedy hack89 Jul 2012 #172

Once again... LiberalLovinLug Jul 2012 #221

Fantastic! A hearty DU rec! nt Owl Jul 2012 #11

I notice the usual suspects don't address the other things said vs ONE point. Ichingcarpenter Jul 2012 #12

Well, when he starts off like Fox News with 100,000 deaths a year, I question the rest. Logical Jul 2012 #14

Quantum physics does not explain nor explore what makes consciousness Ichingcarpenter Jul 2012 #17

The usual suspects have been addressing them in the hundreds of other threads on the subject. Johnny Rico Jul 2012 #18

"this is a public twit"..Exactly correct n/t shadowrider Jul 2012 #13

Hm...his figures are only off by a factor of 1,000% or so! Johnny Rico Jul 2012 #15

AFAIK, you aren't in a militia. nt greyl Jul 2012 #117

The reserve militia, as per the Reserve Militia Act of 1903: Johnny Rico Jul 2012 #128

Lol. I guess you'll just have to tolerate Jason's deadly 1st Amendment right. nt greyl Jul 2012 #136

Not a problem. I'm very tolerant. Johnny Rico Jul 2012 #142

Well, considering the bullshit statistics the NRA feeds it's gun loving fans.... Walk away Jul 2012 #19

brilliant - k and r. n/t NRaleighLiberal Jul 2012 #21

The AR-15 is the same as any other standard semi-automatic hunting rifle Kaleva Jul 2012 #22

Just going to show that Alexander, like so many others on this subject, have virtually no knowledge Johnny Rico Jul 2012 #23

Yes, and the expired "AW" ban was a result of ignorant people writing a law slackmaster Jul 2012 #29

And some folks here were very much against expanding the SOP of the gungeon... Kaleva Jul 2012 #31

You so called "experts" scare the hell out of me. Go find somewhere to hang out besides here. xtraxritical Jul 2012 #42

No. Johnny Rico Jul 2012 #44

The typo brought out the short list of gungeoneers like flies to honey. Warren Stupidity Jul 2012 #26

They are oiling the barrels of their guns right now Ichingcarpenter Jul 2012 #28

And the usual gang of rabid gun ban promoters slackmaster Jul 2012 #30

Easy way to fill my ignore list. morningfog Jul 2012 #83

and Obama said he went to 57 states booley Jul 2012 #201

I agree with Alexander and the OP. morningfog Jul 2012 #202

ok booley Jul 2012 #210

cleaarly PatrynXX Jul 2012 #166

If I could chat with Jason Alexander, I would ask him where the compromise is? aikoaiko Jul 2012 #33

Per A. Pope ananda Jul 2012 #34

10,000 a year! abelenkpe Jul 2012 #35

of the 10,000 8 per day are children/teens. Sad . . . but that also appears to be within acceptable DrDan Jul 2012 #76

No one I know or love, so it's all good. Ikonoklast Jul 2012 #113

that was great Beringia Jul 2012 #36

My gun control soultion bakpakr Jul 2012 #37

Some of what you said is alread in effect Kaleva Jul 2012 #40

Ermm.. ananda Jul 2012 #43

Assault weapons and assault rifles are not the same thing Kaleva Jul 2012 #50

There is no reason for any private individual to own an assault weapon. ananda Jul 2012 #59

What defines an assault weapon in your opinion? Kaleva Jul 2012 #68

I have a reason. Clames Jul 2012 #195

YUP, no need for Corvettes either! Tejas Jul 2012 #203

An AK74M would go for a tenth of that price in a free market. Johnny Rico Jul 2012 #46

It is the 1986 ban that has driven the prices up. Kaleva Jul 2012 #49

By a factor of about 1000%. Johnny Rico Jul 2012 #55

I don't care what the gun nuts think Red Knight Jul 2012 #48

People under 25 should not be allowed to operate a motor vehicle. Tejas Jul 2012 #204

I've got a question for gun owners (If you are here) Historyprof77132 Jul 2012 #52

Excellent question Red Knight Jul 2012 #53

I think the line was drawn correctly in 1934 with the National Firearms Act slackmaster Jul 2012 #58

That's no ban Red Knight Jul 2012 #67

How many crimes have been committed with legally owned machineguns since 1934? slackmaster Jul 2012 #69

So Large Capacity Magazines are fine to sell? Red Knight Jul 2012 #77

I don't have a dog in that fight. My state has limited capacity to 10. slackmaster Jul 2012 #80

Perhaps fortuantely the 100 round drum magazine that Holmes used on the AR-15 ... spin Jul 2012 #115

A Perfect Example Of Gun Control Working. Have A Nice Day. (nt) Paladin Jul 2012 #86

How about the 1986 ban? Kaleva Jul 2012 #72

So you think it is acceptable for a private citizen to be more armed than the police? Historyprof77132 Jul 2012 #93

It's a whole lot easier for police to get weapons covered by the NFA than it is for non-police slackmaster Jul 2012 #100

My question was where do gun owners draw the line for an unacceptable Historyprof77132 Jul 2012 #109

I already gave a very specific and clear answer in reply #58 slackmaster Jul 2012 #111

Oh, I see it now Historyprof77132 Jul 2012 #122

I don't have an issue with restrictions on high capacity magazines Kaleva Jul 2012 #65

I'll ask you the same question I asked a friend Historyprof77132 Jul 2012 #94

You are asking for the ban on any semi-auto rifle that has a detachable magazine. Kaleva Jul 2012 #104

Why not place a ban on both ARs and high capacity mags? Historyprof77132 Jul 2012 #125

An AR-15 with a 5 round mag is functionally no different then any other semi-auto with a 5 rnd mag. Kaleva Jul 2012 #139

I see your point Historyprof77132 Jul 2012 #141

That's about the only way you could do it. Kaleva Jul 2012 #144

I personally see little use for a 100-round drum magazine ... spin Jul 2012 #106

GO JASON!!!!!!!!! I am a fan renewed! Proud to be rec #68! DrDan Jul 2012 #54

People with a fetish for guns disturb me. alarimer Jul 2012 #56

I'm sitting on the fence on this one... -..__... Jul 2012 #60

LOL ananda Jul 2012 #64

Well said, Mr. Alexander Spazito Jul 2012 #62

If he wants to understand why I do JonLP24 Jul 2012 #71

The AR-15 looks like it has been dipped in testosterone compared to a normal semi-auto and RC Jul 2012 #217

When I grew up ..... I learned to make Zip Guns Ichingcarpenter Jul 2012 #84

Gun Nuts are brainwashed Paranoid Fanatics fascisthunter Jul 2012 #85

k&r The Midway Rebel Jul 2012 #88

Good job, Jason. Wish there were more like you. Arugula Latte Jul 2012 #95

Excellent. k&r Ruby the Liberal Jul 2012 #103

I support Jason DontTreadOnMe Jul 2012 #105

EXCELLENT. Glad he is speaking out... YvonneCa Jul 2012 #107

It's a mad mad mad mad world ... piperpibroch Jul 2012 #108

handguns are worse than assault rifles thelordofhell Jul 2012 #112

100,000 injured or killed by firearms. Kalidurga Jul 2012 #116

it always seemed to me that they were talking about the National Guard or something like that. progressivebydesign Jul 2012 #121

100,000 are SHOT every year iamthebandfanman Jul 2012 #129

I didn't know he was political. Thanks for this thread. freshwest Jul 2012 #131

Typo aside, that was very well mzmolly Jul 2012 #145

Jason has stated my sentiments taught_me_patience Jul 2012 #149

Same here... YvonneCa Jul 2012 #184

We need Klaatu and GORT LiberalLovinLug Jul 2012 #155

Perfect. He said it all just perfectly. m/t FourScore Jul 2012 #159

So he got the 100,000 dead wrong. amb123 Jul 2012 #160

He got a HELL of a lot more than that wrong. AtheistCrusader Jul 2012 #182

We would have been luckier if he had used tomatoes. MontecaR Jul 2012 #188

Fair enough. AtheistCrusader Jul 2012 #189

300,000 were electrocuted by toasters Tejas Jul 2012 #207

my suffering neighbors in Colorado locks Jul 2012 #169

This is full of the most ignorant shit ever. AtheistCrusader Jul 2012 #180

My own counter to Jason's arguments can be found here derby378 Jul 2012 #186

It hits all the usual incorrect anti-gun talking points. Atypical Liberal Jul 2012 #190

Explain why you think you have the right to a bazooka or an RPG n/t eridani Jul 2012 #197

I have already explained that I do not think that. Atypical Liberal Jul 2012 #199

So, AR 15s, but no M-16s? n/t eridani Jul 2012 #200

M-16s are legal to own. Kaleva Jul 2012 #205

I'm OK with that. Atypical Liberal Jul 2012 #206

videos like that make me glad that I have a cc permit squicked Jul 2012 #213

Makes a lot of sense to me. Hoyt Jul 2012 #208

"Regular" hunting rifles were military weapons 70 years ago krispos42 Jul 2012 #215