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In reply to the discussion: If Democrats win a veto-proof majority in 2018, what should they do with it? [View all]TrollBuster9090
(6,135 posts)84. If It's Not A Tax, Why Is It Paid For By The "Payroll Tax?"
"That is why people are saying if you increase the cap you also need to increase the benefit amount."
I disagree. People are repeating a talking point designed to scare people away from the idea of removing the cap. The talking point creates a false dichotomy, where you (appear) to have only two choices:
1. Either you let the wealthiest Americans off the hook for paying their fare share into the country's most important SOCIAL program (hence the name Social Security). This causes the program to be chronically underfunded, and allows 'conservatives' to blather about how it will go broke in 20 years unless we CUT benefits, Or...
2. Remove the cap on payments AND the cap on benefits, and have the social security trust fund paying for two of David Koch's Lear jets; causing it to go bust TOMORROW.
But again, that's a false dichotomy, designed to scare people. No EFFECTIVE social program works that way. Lousy, crony-capitalism programs, that make extensive use of user fees and surcharges do. And conservatives tend to like those types of programs because they are less of a tax burden on the wealthy.
"There is a big risk that it is seen as a welfare program and not as insurance undermining support for the program."
Again, I disagree. Frank Luntz's genius not withstanding, changing the name of America's most popular social programs is not going to undermine them. Social Security and Medicare (which are linked, so that you can't opt out of one without opting out of both) are the third rail of American politics (touch it and die) for a reason. Because they're used by ALMOST everybody. Especially the middle class. They're not programs that are just targeted to the poor, and which cynical politicians can turn people against by using racist dog whistle tactics. "Welfare," "Unemployment," "Disability"...sure. Those programs are obviously for losers, and you can easily use the politics of resentment to undermine them. But I'm pretty sure you could change the name of Social Security to "Free money for old losers" and it wouldn't erode public support for the program.
Regardless of what you call those programs, they're universally loved by everybody EXCEPT the handful of people who are seriously wealthy enough that they'd never need them. And those people that are wealthy enough to never need to use Medicare or Social Security resent having to pay for them. Resent having to pay for things that other people need, but they don't.
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If Democrats win a veto-proof majority in 2018, what should they do with it? [View all]
yurbud
Dec 2017
OP
So the payroll tax, which pays social security, should be eliminated or reduced?
former9thward
Dec 2017
#59
Social Security has always beeen claimed to be an insurance program and not a tax
MichMan
Dec 2017
#81
I wouldn't even say lower retirement age to 55 but instead, offer golden parachutes
yurbud
Dec 2017
#23
Ironically, none of those USED to be considered radical (with a caveat for #5)
TrollBuster9090
Dec 2017
#72
BE lucky to get a simple majority given the KGB will be actively preventing votes from being cast
Eliot Rosewater
Dec 2017
#29
Another poster showed me this is not possible until 20...the numbers don't work.
Demsrule86
Dec 2017
#9
If it were me I would first focus on making sure everyone we know vote for ANY democrat
Eliot Rosewater
Dec 2017
#35
First save the Dreamers and Chip...then address Obamacare with a public option...anyone who has
Demsrule86
Dec 2017
#62
I actually don't think we have to. We just have to stop lying about their bad behavior
yurbud
Dec 2017
#27
This is impossible. There are only 8 Republicans up for re-election in 2018.
Calista241
Dec 2017
#18
Fine. Just don't pretend that we have a veto proof majority or can get one in 2018.
onenote
Dec 2017
#46
Publicly-Funded Elections Tax. Everybodys in, nobodys out, and Election Day is a Federal Holiday.
Volaris
Dec 2017
#22
Repeal the Tax Scam. . . . Reverse Citizens United by whatever means necessary.
BigDemVoter
Dec 2017
#33
We can't get to 67 Senate seats in 2018... there are only 9 GOP seats up. Best we can do is 58.
scheming daemons
Dec 2017
#36
To "payback" the people who've paid the GOP to cut taxes for billionairs for a generation
TrollBuster9090
Dec 2017
#41
Imprison people for political orientation? Just politicians, or all registered GOPers?
Marengo
Dec 2017
#91
If thats the case, you may be on the wrong discussion board. Perhap you would feel more at home...
Marengo
Dec 2017
#110
EXACTLY. Trumps veto would be the positive equivalent of LBJ's smear on an opponent...
yurbud
Dec 2017
#118
Medicare for all, ERA, and repeal Citizens United.replace with Publicly Financed Elections
librechik
Dec 2017
#74
I think we get there FIRST by being engaged in the party locally and in groups like Indivisible,
KPN
Dec 2017
#88
We got here because there was one more step left out--making sure Dems we elect do
yurbud
Dec 2017
#89
What are the grounds for impeaching every Republican member of the House and Senate
ClarendonDem
Dec 2017
#111
1. Outlaw gerrymandering 2. End Citizens United. All other problems will then be fixable nt.
Persondem
Dec 2017
#108