General Discussion

Egalitarian Thug

(12,448 posts)

270. Maybe I'm just being thick, but that doesn't strike me as an answer.

Mon Jul 23, 2012, 03:32 AM

Jul 2012

You're in a better position in the UK for this kind of action. You've never had the right to arm yourselves, you have already submitted to 24/7 surveillance, and your justice system is even more one-sided than ours. You've never had to try to eliminate anything on that kind of scale, and finally, even in the UK your professional criminal class has no problem at all getting a gun if they want one and your second line and above of police forces have already been thoroughly militarized.

There is no doubt that GB is a somewhat more civilized nation than here (DU), but the roots of your relatively gun-free nation grow from the archaic notion that you are property of the Monarchy that God saw fit to rule over you and therefore your rights are especially. I know it's no longer like that, but the basis remains the foundation upon which all the rest is built. Brits are not innocent until proven guilty, quite the opposite. Your judicial is at least as, if not more, corrupt than ours.

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I'm from the UK where debates about guns don't exist. [View all] sibelian Jul 2012 OP

erm you do know that their are still guns used in crimes and the knife culture is horrific loli phabay Jul 2012 #1

As the statistics are not even vaguely comparable... sibelian Jul 2012 #2

I think i saw somewhere you are more likely to be assaulted in the Uk than in the US loli phabay Jul 2012 #4

... sibelian Jul 2012 #5

Here's a source. Johnny Rico Jul 2012 #10

Ah, the Daily Mail. sibelian Jul 2012 #13

The subject was assault, not murder. Johnny Rico Jul 2012 #19

Errrr... sibelian Jul 2012 #22

Hence the (relevant) link. Johnny Rico Jul 2012 #26

err i think you will find it was my post and i said you are more likely to be assaulted in the uk loli phabay Jul 2012 #30

Which has nothing to do with my OP. sibelian Jul 2012 #44

Your home invasion rates are far higher than ours. Mimosa Jul 2012 #158

I'd rather get in a fist fight than a gunfight. Spitfire of ATJ Jul 2012 #24

id rather you decide to fistfight me whilst im holding a gun loli phabay Jul 2012 #29

"This is not about fighting fair its about winning and walking away." sibelian Jul 2012 #40

Not to the Hollywood cowboys here. Warren Stupidity Jul 2012 #124

Michael Reagan called it our american gun fettish. He's right. Your manhood's on the line. lindysalsagal Jul 2012 #131

I've never felt unsafe in an American city Scootaloo Jul 2012 #227

No, it's about murder. Spitfire of ATJ Jul 2012 #81

George Zimmerman, that you? Drunken Irishman Jul 2012 #92

if they attacked me and i felt in danger, we are talking about getting mugged or assaulted here loli phabay Jul 2012 #93

I agree there, however... Drunken Irishman Jul 2012 #94

oh yes it is the subject at hand! robinlynne Jul 2012 #202

The UK is the size of Wisconsin, and has a much smaller population than USA, too. MADem Jul 2012 #83

bravo good post and sentiment. loli phabay Jul 2012 #85

The population of the UK is more than ten times as great as Wisconsin.. Fumesucker Jul 2012 #121

This message was self-deleted by its author MADem Jul 2012 #125

I was using poor shorthand--I meant to say that it has a smaller population than USA. MADem Jul 2012 #128

High population density also leads to a lot more opportunities for interpersonal conflict.. Fumesucker Jul 2012 #176

UK is not a hundred rats in a shoebox, though. It's close, but not cramped. MADem Jul 2012 #179

And all dangerous wildlife have been hunted to local extinction obamanut2012 Jul 2012 #136

I used to live on a farm in UK. The fields were rented to tenants who kept sheep and cows. MADem Jul 2012 #159

It's very intetesting you did that! obamanut2012 Jul 2012 #163

But what does the size of the population matter when you're evaluating per capita stats? marmar Jul 2012 #145

You need fewer cops to patrol a smaller area. MADem Jul 2012 #157

It would be nice if people all over the world became less inclined to murder one another. Zalatix Jul 2012 #219

i can believe it, the ned culture is real bad in a lot of the urban areas loli phabay Jul 2012 #14

So, what do you think about the fact that fewer guns in the UK sibelian Jul 2012 #25

well might be less gun crime but were i live unlike the UK if you break into my home your meeting a loli phabay Jul 2012 #32

Then you don't understand what "odds" are. sibelian Jul 2012 #38

simple my odds over here of being attacked in my home and killed by a knife wielding ned loli phabay Jul 2012 #42

So you're actually just completely IGNORING my OP. sibelian Jul 2012 #47

now you get the point, he may be armed but he knows i may be too loli phabay Jul 2012 #49

So why doesn't he? sibelian Jul 2012 #52

less murders but more assaults, in the UK you can mug someone and be pretty sure they are unarmed loli phabay Jul 2012 #56

Yeah, but you can't be sure they won't fight back. sibelian Jul 2012 #65

its much preferable to trying to wrestle a stanley knife out of their hand or if there are more than loli phabay Jul 2012 #68

Wrsetling a stanley knife out of someone's hand sibelian Jul 2012 #72

the point is the round goes straight to the target, never seen anyone wrestle a bullet apart from loli phabay Jul 2012 #74

No, the point is it's easier to kill someone with a gun than a knife. sibelian Jul 2012 #84

Which is one of the many reasons a firearm is superior to a knife for self defense...yes? Johnny Rico Jul 2012 #76

im not sure they actually know what a firearm is, or how they work loli phabay Jul 2012 #78

... eShirl Jul 2012 #88

No, it's one of them many reasons why your murder rate is through the roof sibelian Jul 2012 #215

Firearms aren't superior to knives for self defense? Really? Johnny Rico Jul 2012 #217

Are you saying that I should have to fight fair? permatex Jul 2012 #161

Then arm them with what? a knife its been shown that people that carry knifes end up in A&E Sea-Dog Jul 2012 #112

Not if you're not home, secondvariety Jul 2012 #109

interesting stats from the bizzies themselves loli phabay Jul 2012 #20

I also read today Mojorabbit Jul 2012 #198

Oh, and you ignored every single point I made. sibelian Jul 2012 #3

it seemed to me that you were saying i cant have a gun and neither can the bad guys loli phabay Jul 2012 #6

"its not hard to get a gun in the UK if you pay the money and know the right people." - false. sibelian Jul 2012 #7

are you really saying that if you go to salford, or possil or many other estates that you cant get a loli phabay Jul 2012 #8

Again, the statistics speak for themselves sibelian Jul 2012 #9

and once again you really really believe that if you have the money and know somebody that you cant loli phabay Jul 2012 #11

"its not hard to get a gun" "if you have the money and know somebody" sibelian Jul 2012 #16

yes it is, you go to the pub give the guy money and get the gun loli phabay Jul 2012 #17

This disenegnuous tripe. sibelian Jul 2012 #21

you could if you knew were to go, hell you tell me were you live and i can tell you were to go loli phabay Jul 2012 #23

Who? sibelian Jul 2012 #28

nope they dont always, but not every criminal has a record so they do buy them legally as well loli phabay Jul 2012 #36

You can do a gun buy at a garage sale in the United States. Spitfire of ATJ Jul 2012 #31

yup i know that, was just using it as an example of how easy it is to buy a gun in the UK if you kno loli phabay Jul 2012 #37

Pretending it's easier than in the States sibelian Jul 2012 #41

and you thinking that its not easy to get a gun in the UK is just willful ignorance loli phabay Jul 2012 #45

Dude, just repeating something doesn't make it true. sibelian Jul 2012 #51

and you dont think the bad guys dont know were to get the guns from loli phabay Jul 2012 #54

So where are they all? sibelian Jul 2012 #63

i think its pretty easy to pull up the numbers from reported gun crimes, you can use google loli phabay Jul 2012 #67

Yeah, but that's got nothing to do with what I posted, has it? sibelian Jul 2012 #73

no the subject is you scolding americans and being high and mighty about the UK and guns loli phabay Jul 2012 #77

Right, so because you're oversensitive about your nationality... sibelian Jul 2012 #82

no i just know enough about americans to know that they dont need your help to solve their problems loli phabay Jul 2012 #87

Whoaaa, Mr. America...that moral high horse you're prancing around on Surya Gayatri Jul 2012 #117

"Scolding"? sibelian Jul 2012 #214

speak for yourself!!! this person is awesome!! wendylaroux Jul 2012 #255

Buying guns there is like buying drugs here. Spitfire of ATJ Jul 2012 #86

only if you are a total newbie, if your a criminal looking to buy a gun your pretty much dealing wit loli phabay Jul 2012 #89

Do you realize what you just did? Spitfire of ATJ Jul 2012 #102

6up bad guys in the business would be more discerning who wants your sale to loli phabay Jul 2012 #114

I'll just let that post hang out there for all to see. Spitfire of ATJ Jul 2012 #192

You're not even funny. sibelian Jul 2012 #218

wtf you on about, still havent told me were in the uk your from so i can advise you how easy to get loli phabay Jul 2012 #220

+1,000 ! Surya Gayatri Jul 2012 #119

In most states, yes permatex Jul 2012 #167

UK or US statistics are often manipulated Mimosa Jul 2012 #162

I think you are being very naive obamanut2012 Jul 2012 #141

Correct permatex Jul 2012 #170

Right -- I suspect it's also possible to buy illegal drugs in the UK obamanut2012 Jul 2012 #177

+10000000000 permatex Jul 2012 #180

The homicide rate in Japan is the lowest in the world. cthulu2016 Jul 2012 #181

thats true permatex Jul 2012 #182

I think his point is that you can get guns if you know who to get them from obamanut2012 Jul 2012 #185

bingo if you belong or have contacts with a fleeto (gang) then its relatively easy loli phabay Jul 2012 #223

got any data on 'how relatively easy it is'? Sea-Dog Jul 2012 #191

How easy is it to buy illegal drugs? obamanut2012 Jul 2012 #264

still no data to back up what your saying. Sea-Dog Jul 2012 #271

That's nice. whathehell Jul 2012 #12

You are fully aware of the point I was making. sibelian Jul 2012 #15

What I truly am NOT aware of is why you think whathehell Jul 2012 #61

Stick your fingers in your ears, then. sibelian Jul 2012 #221

rofl way to go reinforcing his point. loli phabay Jul 2012 #224

Stick yours in your mouth, then whathehell Jul 2012 #245

That's mighty condescending of you chap DainBramaged Jul 2012 #252

Your concern is duly noted, "chap" whathehell Jul 2012 #259

Thanks for your reply DainBramaged Jul 2012 #260

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! whathehell Jul 2012 #262

+1 nt MADem Jul 2012 #90

Let me get this straight. Zoeisright Jul 2012 #193

You've got a long way to go, it seems whathehell Jul 2012 #199

Don't even bother to pretend that your oversensitivity is my problem. sibelian Jul 2012 #222

Don't' even bother to pretend that your overweening arrogance is not the problem whathehell Jul 2012 #247

overweening DainBramaged Jul 2012 #253

I do hope you're not ascribing whathehell Jul 2012 #258

There are many reasons why people in America keep guns. LuvNewcastle Jul 2012 #18

Compensation for having small dicks being one of them. dipsydoodle Jul 2012 #27

There is some of that, of course. LuvNewcastle Jul 2012 #50

You mean there's no small dicks in the UK? whathehell Jul 2012 #75

guffaws, of course there is but its supplemented by supporting man utd instead of guns loli phabay Jul 2012 #79

Actually Man Utd fans probably have small dicks :) Lars77 Jul 2012 #110

And that is a good thing, bro..."guffaws" and all. whathehell Jul 2012 #123

There are indeed as many puny dicks in the UK Surya Gayatri Jul 2012 #118

LOL... whathehell Jul 2012 #122

"They (do) compensate with SOMETHING", as do Surya Gayatri Jul 2012 #130

Thank you for whathehell Jul 2012 #189

actually they do instead of guns its knifes and has been for decades loli phabay Jul 2012 #209

Many young British males are indeed members of the "white weapon" cult... Surya Gayatri Jul 2012 #239

Uh... beevul Jul 2012 #243

Is this a serious question? Impossible to tell--it sounds as if you're just being provocative... Surya Gayatri Jul 2012 #246

Nomenclature. beevul Jul 2012 #248

I'm referring to the same kind of assault weapons used by Surya Gayatri Jul 2012 #249

Thats what I thought. beevul Jul 2012 #269

+1 bazillion! Shadowflash Jul 2012 #103

I suppose that virtual elimination of habeas corpus is not "overreaching" eridani Jul 2012 #33

Yes it is. LuvNewcastle Jul 2012 #55

Remember the color-coded terrorist alerts? eridani Jul 2012 #60

I think our media is our biggest problem. LuvNewcastle Jul 2012 #70

I think getting rid of all the guns would be a start. sibelian Jul 2012 #34

what about knives, i would think that would be of a bigger concern in the UK loli phabay Jul 2012 #39

are you embarasssed or something? sibelian Jul 2012 #53

yes im embarressed for you, its like an american coming onto a UK site and trying to be all haughty loli phabay Jul 2012 #62

I *am* concerned about knife crime. sibelian Jul 2012 #71

+1...n/t whathehell Jul 2012 #208

Murder rate 25% of ours. It seems knives not such a huge problem. Warren Stupidity Jul 2012 #127

dude forget about the murder rate, if you live in the UK then knives are a concern loli phabay Jul 2012 #216

Didn't you know that whole "Land of the Free, Home of the Brave" thing was propaganda? Spitfire of ATJ Jul 2012 #43

How, exactly, would you propose that this be done? Johnny Rico Jul 2012 #46

The first thing necessary to get it done sibelian Jul 2012 #59

Ok...how do you propose getting the majority of US gun owners to agree that it "has to be done"? Johnny Rico Jul 2012 #66

By explaining to them repeatedly that their lives are at greater risk than necessary. sibelian Jul 2012 #80

lol i dont think thats a plan that will work... loli phabay Jul 2012 #91

The anti-gun side has been doing that for decades, and the pro-gun side is more entrenched Johnny Rico Jul 2012 #144

Then it has to get stronger. sibelian Jul 2012 #225

Well, yes, it would have to get stronger to more effective by definition. Johnny Rico Jul 2012 #228

Then the fight has to be started again. n/t sibelian Jul 2012 #230

okay go ahead and start it, but as the other poster said you are not going to change people loli phabay Jul 2012 #233

Get back with me in a couple of decades and let me know how it's going. Johnny Rico Jul 2012 #234

Apparently you don't know that much about our BoR permatex Jul 2012 #174

Yes, because no one has ever truly "explained" that to us before. whathehell Jul 2012 #210

Go and read what I psoted at the beginning again. sibelian Jul 2012 #229

You go and read what I posted at the beginning whathehell Jul 2012 #251

It would be virtually impossible to confiscate all the guns in America. LuvNewcastle Jul 2012 #64

Absolutely right. Johnny Rico Jul 2012 #69

So you're just giving up? sibelian Jul 2012 #213

There are many reasons why people in America keep guns. Spitfire of ATJ Jul 2012 #35

Oh for God's sake, that is the dumbest argument ever. Zoeisright Jul 2012 #194

"of an out-of-control government which has all the guns in its possession" DainBramaged Jul 2012 #257

"Why would I need a gun to defend myself in a nation that doesn't really have any guns"? whathehell Jul 2012 #48

And what is with YOU thucythucy Jul 2012 #148

Plus one billion. Zoeisright Jul 2012 #195

You can ask whathehell Jul 2012 #203

Whatever. The level of hostility in reply thucythucy Jul 2012 #250

Sorry, but again, I disagree with you and whathehell Jul 2012 #256

I checked it out, thucythucy Jul 2012 #261

I checked it out too whathehell Jul 2012 #263

Lessons learned from 1776 pintobean Jul 2012 #57

The stats do speak for themselves Prophet 451 Jul 2012 #58

I wonder if the definitions of 'violent crime' are the same, though muriel_volestrangler Jul 2012 #95

Fair point Prophet 451 Jul 2012 #101

Indeed; in the UK, you'd get a better idea of prevelance with the British Crime Survey muriel_volestrangler Jul 2012 #116

I remember a shouting match between 2 chaps arthritisR_US Jul 2012 #197

^ Agree ^ Mimosa Jul 2012 #169

What I've heard is Canada has essentially the same gun laws as the US, and much, much less violence tclambert Jul 2012 #96

I think a lot of this is cultural. mwooldri Jul 2012 #156

Our basic legal infrastructure's a lot more recent, too Posteritatis Jul 2012 #204

Canada's gun laws are very different from the US. DanTex Jul 2012 #160

No, Canada does not have the same gun laws as the U.S. Zoeisright Jul 2012 #196

No one needs a gun. Brewinblue Jul 2012 #97

This message was self-deleted by its author bupkus Jul 2012 #105

Every woman living alone needs a gun. Honeycombe8 Jul 2012 #106

How am I expected to find a gun and load it and aim it if an assailant is already inside my house? lindysalsagal Jul 2012 #133

My gun is loaded and is an easy to grab place. Yes, he could grab it and use it against you, but Honeycombe8 Jul 2012 #140

I'm for regulation, but understand the need for guns Patiod Jul 2012 #173

Thanks for understanding my position. Which is that a gun is just one of many tools. Honeycombe8 Jul 2012 #206

Any place can become dangerous Mimosa Jul 2012 #171

What you say is true, Mimosa. A gun is just one of many things to use. Honeycombe8 Jul 2012 #207

Besides the fact that you are flat wrong clffrdjk Jul 2012 #151

So how will you disarm the American population? permatex Jul 2012 #175

By starting. sibelian Jul 2012 #241

This really is a comparison of apples and orangutans.... The Doctor. Jul 2012 #98

The US also has more of a criminal problem than the UK. Lots of murders, serial killers, home Honeycombe8 Jul 2012 #111

This message was self-deleted by its author bupkus Jul 2012 #99

+1 alcibiades_mystery Jul 2012 #172

Ever notice Brewinblue Jul 2012 #100

This message was self-deleted by its author bupkus Jul 2012 #107

That's nonsense. The Doctor. Jul 2012 #129

You have gained lots of knowledge in 11 days. NCTraveler Jul 2012 #139

The U.S. is different from the UK. Honeycombe8 Jul 2012 #104

Guns are a deeply embedded part of American culture, in Europe they are not. Lars77 Jul 2012 #108

I suspect current American interest in guns for self-defense has less to do with the "frontier" HereSince1628 Jul 2012 #120

Well we are about 800 years apart on that point Lars77 Jul 2012 #187

I would say two reasons obamanut2012 Jul 2012 #188

bingo i am 40 minutes at least from the deputies arriving unless i get luckey loli phabay Jul 2012 #211

I'm confident most of America's guns are where most of America's people are-urban and suburban areas HereSince1628 Jul 2012 #212

I have been stalked by coyotes and feral boars obamanut2012 Jul 2012 #265

Americans are completely irrational about their precious guns... polichick Jul 2012 #113

Agreed. n/t lindysalsagal Jul 2012 #134

D'accord. marmar Jul 2012 #146

Thank you for pointing this out. yellerpup Jul 2012 #115

Follow the money malaise Jul 2012 #126

+1,000 ! Surya Gayatri Jul 2012 #132

The dirty little secret they don't want to discuss.... lindysalsagal Jul 2012 #135

+1 redqueen Jul 2012 #166

In some areas of the country guns are necessary Marrah_G Jul 2012 #137

And if you're a farmer, MadHound Jul 2012 #138

Or living in very rural areas with bears and mountain lions etc Marrah_G Jul 2012 #142

If the UK ever had 60 M guns, how would you propose to get rid of them? Egalitarian Thug Jul 2012 #143

By beginning. sibelian Jul 2012 #231

How well do you think that would work? beevul Jul 2012 #244

Maybe I'm just being thick, but that doesn't strike me as an answer. Egalitarian Thug Jul 2012 #270

Heavy Sigh DustyJoe Jul 2012 #147

Thank you for an articulate and intelligent post, thucythucy Jul 2012 #149

Add me to that list ! ohgeewhiz Jul 2012 #150

Many thanks for your polite response! sibelian Jul 2012 #237

And yet the UK has had many, many dozens of bomb attacks. Way more than here. Bluenorthwest Jul 2012 #152

That actually is a good point obamanut2012 Jul 2012 #155

Criminals aren't doing bombings Sea-Dog Jul 2012 #190

Facts mitigating against seriously remedying America's gun problem. DemocratSinceBirth Jul 2012 #153

What happens if a rabid raccoon comes into your yard? obamanut2012 Jul 2012 #154

There are no raccoons in Britain, or feral pigs, or wolves, or coyotes Spider Jerusalem Jul 2012 #226

Thank you for proving my point! obamanut2012 Jul 2012 #266

This message was self-deleted by its author Tuesday Afternoon Jul 2012 #164

Excellent post. DanTex Jul 2012 #165

LUCKY You; Here in the U.S. Iggy Jul 2012 #168

Pepper spray and many legitimate martial arts weapons are also illegal in the UK obamanut2012 Jul 2012 #178

Some of the bans on non-lethal devices are possilby slightly authoritarian, I agree sibelian Jul 2012 #240

They've been successful in protecting people from defending themselves Dash87 Jul 2012 #183

I don't get the pepper spray thing at all obamanut2012 Jul 2012 #186

THANK YOU for this logic flamingdem Jul 2012 #184

Have you been watching your own news? tawadi Jul 2012 #200

Well, that's certainly an interesting point. sibelian Jul 2012 #242

Great Britain does not have a second amendment Rosa Luxemburg Jul 2012 #201

There's also an incredible level of paranoia in the US... AntiFascist Jul 2012 #205

there's no real debate here in this country, either. Warren DeMontague Jul 2012 #232

i am kinda done with these arguments as well, its not going to change any minds and just seems like loli phabay Jul 2012 #235

Now THAT is an important argument. Warren DeMontague Jul 2012 #236

Male obamanut2012 Jul 2012 #268

What happened in Aurora has been described as horrific and savage rudycantfail Jul 2012 #238

you know what else doesn't exist in the UK? BOG PERSON Jul 2012 #254

The USA and Americans are fucking crazy and violent. Arugula Latte Jul 2012 #267