General Discussion

hunter

(40,696 posts)

191. I've felt that way about cops at times.

Thu Jan 11, 2018, 11:14 PM

Jan 2018

And the hell of it is you can't just walk away from cops when they get in your face, even when they are wrong. Plus, they have guns.

Maybe it's just me, maybe that I've never lived a sheltered life, but obnoxious guys talking to trees are not extraordinary in my world.

I'm posting this from the library downtown and there are a few people around me here because the library is someplace to be. Everyone deserves a place to be, even those dysfunctional in our ordinary society.

There's a lot about our nation that's broken. Even if you could call the "authorities" in this story, seek some remedy in the courts, this guy might at best do his 72 hours and be released right back onto the street again because there's no place for him to be.

How do we solve that problem?

I doubt that more jails or prisons are the answer. The U.S.A. has more jails and prisons than any civilized nation, and clearly, by your own experience, it's not working.

Edit history

Please sign in to view edit histories.

Recommendations

0 members have recommended this reply (displayed in chronological order):

321 replies

= new reply since forum marked as read

Highlight:

A question about the legality of personal space [View all] Downtown Hound Jan 2018 OP

Need my three minutes reading this back ksoze Jan 2018 #1

It took you THREE MINUTES to read that! snooper2 Jan 2018 #2

Whatever. Next! Downtown Hound Jan 2018 #3

OMG! Your story sounds like Edward Albee's play "The Zoo Story" womanofthehills Jan 2018 #224

I would never have engaged. I would have gotten up and left immediately. 50 Shades Of Blue Jan 2018 #4

Yes. elleng Jan 2018 #146

Me, too. 3catwoman3 Jan 2018 #186

The majority of people would leave - why confront a mentally ill person womanofthehills Jan 2018 #225

Same here, leave the area and report him to campus security XRubicon Jan 2018 #303

Yes again. Never engage them. Duppers Jan 2018 #317

I would have advised him I had just recently wiped a bunch of snot on the tree where his hand is snooper2 Jan 2018 #5

He might have liked it. Downtown Hound Jan 2018 #6

Is what happened as described that far off? Nt NCTraveler Jan 2018 #36

Yes, it is. n/t Downtown Hound Jan 2018 #71

Whackadoodles are gonna wackadoodle, dude. Codeine Jan 2018 #7

This is going to become a mantra for me! N/t Iris Jan 2018 #227

I follow instincts... something doesn't seem right I don't engage, but catch my watch and hlthe2b Jan 2018 #8

Please take this the way it is intended. NCTraveler Jan 2018 #9

No, my first instinct is to defend myself and protect my safety Downtown Hound Jan 2018 #10

"But I'm even more for making sure I go home unharmed every day." NCTraveler Jan 2018 #11

LOL. Downtown Hound Jan 2018 #13

"How you interpret that as male aggression I don't know." NCTraveler Jan 2018 #25

As I already mentioned Downtown Hound Jan 2018 #27

"It was him that started it up again." NCTraveler Jan 2018 #30

You mean the guy that could have easily talked to his tree Downtown Hound Jan 2018 #54

If he is that crazy, then he might think he has to talk to his tree treestar Jan 2018 #86

So let me see if I get this straight Downtown Hound Jan 2018 #90

Yes, you are. You are the sane person. hunter Jan 2018 #109

Bullshit. n/t Downtown Hound Jan 2018 #112

Bullshit you are the sane person? treestar Jan 2018 #115

It's not my opinion, but a possible opinion of his treestar Jan 2018 #116

Even if he was, that doesn't make me guilty of anything Downtown Hound Jan 2018 #123

LOL! nt DemSoc Jan 2018 #278

Right, the way rational people who want to talk to their trees do it. Of course! kcr Jan 2018 #154

You weren't there. Downtown Hound Jan 2018 #158

What does the fact I wasn't there have to do with it? kcr Jan 2018 #160

It has a lot to do with it. Downtown Hound Jan 2018 #161

Well, maybe you should keep your story straight, because right there in the beginning of your story, kcr Jan 2018 #163

I came to that conclusion after the fact Downtown Hound Jan 2018 #164

You came to that conclusion after the fact. But you mention it first thing. kcr Jan 2018 #167

I mention it first thing because I have had the benefit of 24 Downtown Hound Jan 2018 #172

As Judge Judy tells people in road rage etc. situations spooky3 Jan 2018 #207

Sorry, but I've always found Judge Judy Downtown Hound Jan 2018 #212

How would he know that this guy wasn't just jerking his chain? pnwmom Jan 2018 #125

Maybe, because the guys first 2 sentences were: "What's Up" & "I'm talking to my tree" womanofthehills Jan 2018 #232

If a man says "what's up"? It's a sign he's unhinged? pnwmom Jan 2018 #280

He wanted to talk to his tree... NCTraveler Jan 2018 #242

Wow! Ever hear of not taking something personally womanofthehills Jan 2018 #229

I wasn't trying to have a normal conversation with him Downtown Hound Jan 2018 #282

If it had been me, and a guy said that to me, I wouldn't have known he was mentally ill. pnwmom Jan 2018 #87

So you would be upset that you as a women could not sit under a tree in an area frequented womanofthehills Jan 2018 #233

As a parent and a former student, I would be upset that a community college student pnwmom Jan 2018 #237

Thank you once again. Downtown Hound Jan 2018 #274

It's the front yard of a very popular, nationally ranked junior college and people do it Downtown Hound Jan 2018 #273

Oh and this is what it actually looks like Downtown Hound Jan 2018 #283

Thanks for posting this picture. Unfortunately, the people who need to see it pnwmom Jan 2018 #300

I would have just left NCTraveler Jan 2018 #244

Post removed Post removed Jan 2018 #250

Exactly. NCTraveler Jan 2018 #253

Complete misrepresentation of what happened also noted. n/t Downtown Hound Jan 2018 #255

I am using this as a guide. NCTraveler Jan 2018 #257

Not unwarranted aggression Downtown Hound Jan 2018 #261

How could the OP know the person was mentally ill from the outset? pnwmom Jan 2018 #84

"talking to trees". Voltaire2 Jan 2018 #135

Sane men crack "jokes" and make stupid remarks to women every day. pnwmom Jan 2018 #136

the op described a person who he believed to be "unhinged" or something like that Voltaire2 Jan 2018 #139

Maybe it's safer Downtown Hound Jan 2018 #144

Sure go for it. Voltaire2 Jan 2018 #145

I did. Downtown Hound Jan 2018 #149

That was a CONCLUSION he made after several minutes of interaction. He couldn't have known pnwmom Jan 2018 #147

you win. Beat up crazy people. Best to do it pro-actively. Voltaire2 Jan 2018 #203

Nah, you win. Downtown Hound Jan 2018 #205

You win. Don't listen. Twist what people say and put words into their mouths. pnwmom Jan 2018 #206

This message was self-deleted by its author pnwmom Jan 2018 #148

He wanted to talk to his tree. NCTraveler Jan 2018 #243

When someone is crazy, I don't engage at all. When he said moonscape Jan 2018 #301

Thats kind of the beginning and end with me. NCTraveler Jan 2018 #302

Betting your a man, cuz invasion of space happens to women all the time. CrispyQ Jan 2018 #12

And it's not okay when it happens to women either Downtown Hound Jan 2018 #16

Asserting your rights no matter what is a macho thing. CrispyQ Jan 2018 #23

Okay. Next time I hear of someone being harassed on the street Downtown Hound Jan 2018 #24

You're being confrontational now. CrispyQ Jan 2018 #26

Bye! Downtown Hound Jan 2018 #29

This message was self-deleted by its author Duppers Jan 2018 #311

Right. We shouldn't have to live in fear. I was sitting in the grass in a park once, pnwmom Jan 2018 #94

Well, lucky you didn't post about that on DU Downtown Hound Jan 2018 #101

Yeah, some of these responses have been disappointing. n/t pnwmom Jan 2018 #106

Actually - some of us life with this every day of our lives. Ms. Toad Jan 2018 #176

And if a woman posted a story like this about how she stood up Downtown Hound Jan 2018 #181

Most women wouldn't post about it. Ms. Toad Jan 2018 #194

Sorry, but the few times in my life that Downtown Hound Jan 2018 #196

I didn't say they would take it in stride Ms. Toad Jan 2018 #204

I'm not dismissive of women Downtown Hound Jan 2018 #214

I'm hardly the only one in this thread. Ms. Toad Jan 2018 #239

Between you and me Downtown Hound Jan 2018 #251

I agree that women face situations like this all the time. HOWEVER pnwmom Jan 2018 #310

Actually, he doesn't get it. Ms. Toad Jan 2018 #314

I would never sit under a tree in an area frequented by homeless & transients womanofthehills Jan 2018 #231

I would never dress in sexually provocative clothing Downtown Hound Jan 2018 #249

Just like I wouldn't wander through neighborhoods.... BoneyardDem Jan 2018 #272

Did you see the picture of his campus? It absolutely doesn't look like gang turf. pnwmom Jan 2018 #308

Did you see the photo of his campus? Students OFTEN sit on the grass and read between classes. pnwmom Jan 2018 #307

+1 Sorry I didn't see your post before I said something similar. spooky3 Jan 2018 #210

What the fuck is this shit right here. WhiskeyGrinder Jan 2018 #14

Me asking a question. Downtown Hound Jan 2018 #18

not a lawyer, but my understanding is that the threat of violence has to be real. unblock Jan 2018 #15

So basically, I could just go up to a woman and stand inches away from her Downtown Hound Jan 2018 #17

a lot is packed into that "make her feel threatened". unblock Jan 2018 #19

He didn't just start talking to the tree Downtown Hound Jan 2018 #20

you were right to be wary. i'm not disputing that. unblock Jan 2018 #34

And if you tell someone to leave you alone and they don't, what then? Downtown Hound Jan 2018 #37

good luck staying out of prison with that attitude. unblock Jan 2018 #108

I've done just fine so far. Downtown Hound Jan 2018 #119

No, you are not within your rights to force them at that point Lee-Lee Jan 2018 #246

And maybe that's why Stand Your Ground laws exist Downtown Hound Jan 2018 #252

No, its not Lee-Lee Jan 2018 #258

That's nice Downtown Hound Jan 2018 #263

I carry precisely because there are people like you who want to assault people without cause Lee-Lee Jan 2018 #293

And that is a problem. Men think they can get away with something like that pnwmom Jan 2018 #111

Bingo! Downtown Hound Jan 2018 #124

There certainly is a range of behaviors that fall short of justifying violence unblock Jan 2018 #201

It's a no-win situation for women. Mariana Jan 2018 #305

From my back-and-forths with the OP, I think he does understand pnwmom Jan 2018 #306

It's hard to tell. Mariana Jan 2018 #319

Well you could do that. You would be a creep. Voltaire2 Jan 2018 #51

Yes, I would be a creep. Downtown Hound Jan 2018 #52

Fine have it your way. Pick fights with random disturbed Voltaire2 Jan 2018 #61

Me standing up for my space is NOT picking a fight. Downtown Hound Jan 2018 #64

If your behavior there was anything like your behavior here, then... jberryhill Jan 2018 #83

And how is my behavior here so terrible? Downtown Hound Jan 2018 #91

Suggestion jberryhill Jan 2018 #184

I feel just fine about it, thanks. Downtown Hound Jan 2018 #188

Then, good! jberryhill Jan 2018 #192

You seem to not get it that mentally ill people don't behave like normal people womanofthehills Jan 2018 #234

On the contrary Downtown Hound Jan 2018 #268

Thank YOU! smirkymonkey Jan 2018 #89

But picking fights with random disturbed people is what DU is FOR! jberryhill Jan 2018 #185

So explain to me how I picked a fight with him Downtown Hound Jan 2018 #190

It's important to distinguish between a "legal question" and a "fact question" jberryhill Jan 2018 #82

agreed. the legal question would be what are the conditions necessary to constitute assault unblock Jan 2018 #95

I believe you have it right True Dough Jan 2018 #105

Did you ever think that you were invading the trees personal space? Floyd R. Turbo Jan 2018 #21

LOL. He did say it was his tree... Downtown Hound Jan 2018 #22

The tree was assaulted jberryhill Jan 2018 #58

The guy sounds unbalanced...if that's the case...they win and I just walk away....n/t Kirk Lover Jan 2018 #28

I think your question was a good one. Mosby Jan 2018 #31

Thank you! Downtown Hound Jan 2018 #33

He's crazy, so just walk away treestar Jan 2018 #32

this is the good practical answer. even if one does have the legal right to stay, why? unblock Jan 2018 #35

And let's just pretend for a minute, that I don't believe I have to walk away Downtown Hound Jan 2018 #39

you're trying to assert a private property right to public space. unblock Jan 2018 #48

Even in the public sphere you still have some rights Downtown Hound Jan 2018 #53

some rights, yes; just not the same rights. unblock Jan 2018 #97

You still have the right to respond to behavior that anybody could see was Downtown Hound Jan 2018 #104

Videotape him and then call the police treestar Jan 2018 #118

You wnet from chasitising me for aggressively telling him to back off Downtown Hound Jan 2018 #121

I re-read your opus treestar Jan 2018 #122

Yes I did. Downtown Hound Jan 2018 #127

Well, not everybody. pnwmom Jan 2018 #137

Thank you! Downtown Hound Jan 2018 #138

Please don't ever consider marybourg Jan 2018 #38

I've been to New York several times and rode the subway, thanks. Downtown Hound Jan 2018 #40

Then you should be able to deduce the answer to your question. marybourg Jan 2018 #134

So if somebody came up to you and demanded your seat on the subway Downtown Hound Jan 2018 #140

No if the unhinged person invades your space on the subway you move. Voltaire2 Jan 2018 #151

Let yourself get bullied Downtown Hound Jan 2018 #155

What you're required to do is what I said. marybourg Jan 2018 #209

The OP hasn't said a word about shooting anyone. n/t pnwmom Jan 2018 #215

And neither did I. marybourg Jan 2018 #217

You mentioned "stand your ground" laws. They give people the right to use deadly force, pnwmom Jan 2018 #218

The "stand your ground" laws were a marybourg Jan 2018 #220

Stand your ground may be what I'm talking about Downtown Hound Jan 2018 #222

Well, you can stand your ground as long as you like, marybourg Jan 2018 #238

As I've already stated Downtown Hound Jan 2018 #254

Small point, perhaps matt819 Jan 2018 #41

Gratuitous insult of the homeless? Downtown Hound Jan 2018 #47

Lets see matt819 Jan 2018 #57

Oh bullshit Downtown Hound Jan 2018 #62

This message was self-deleted by its author Duppers Jan 2018 #316

Not a lawyer, but I would think that since it did not appear to be LuckyCharms Jan 2018 #42

Also...never yell what is your problem at someone... LuckyCharms Jan 2018 #43

Getting into an argument with a mentally ill stranger is never a good idea. DLevine Jan 2018 #44

Um, hes disturbed. That should have been clear. nolabear Jan 2018 #45

I'm not aware of a legal definition of "personal space" Lurks Often Jan 2018 #46

"You failed to walk away or call the police" Downtown Hound Jan 2018 #50

To answer your last question matt819 Jan 2018 #59

Not really an answer but whatever. Downtown Hound Jan 2018 #66

I didn't expect you to like or agree with my answer Lurks Often Jan 2018 #81

And why is that? Downtown Hound Jan 2018 #93

Have fun! Lurks Often Jan 2018 #107

violating someones personal space is "simple assault" Mosby Jan 2018 #67

Maybe, maybe not Lurks Often Jan 2018 #79

From your link, simple assault still requires physical contact tammywammy Jan 2018 #85

assault apprehension of imminent harm Mosby Jan 2018 #289

Your best option Meowmee Jan 2018 #49

What state? jberryhill Jan 2018 #55

California Downtown Hound Jan 2018 #56

Unlawful assembly - both of you jberryhill Jan 2018 #63

LOL! Downtown Hound Jan 2018 #65

I'm not joking jberryhill Jan 2018 #72

Really? LOL once again! Even harder this time! Downtown Hound Jan 2018 #75

You were both lawfully there and became boisterous and tumultuous jberryhill Jan 2018 #77

Yes I did Downtown Hound Jan 2018 #78

The first two words of your OP subject are "a question" jberryhill Jan 2018 #80

I asked a questionn, and everyone immediately accused me of being the aggressor Downtown Hound Jan 2018 #92

Hey, I'm talking to my subthread here, man jberryhill Jan 2018 #183

Well, I better just leave and let you have at it then Downtown Hound Jan 2018 #200

Verbally confronting him is "boisterous and tumultuous"? Would the same standard pnwmom Jan 2018 #113

In the real world... jberryhill Jan 2018 #182

So now asking to be left alone to study in peace Downtown Hound Jan 2018 #187

At the time you would have attracted the attention of the constabulary, yes jberryhill Jan 2018 #189

And I would have just told them that Downtown Hound Jan 2018 #193

Well, that is quite a story! pnwmom Jan 2018 #208

This isn't a good example to discuss invasion of space. LAS14 Jan 2018 #60

Why was it inappropriate? Downtown Hound Jan 2018 #69

Because this person was obviously disturbed. LAS14 Jan 2018 #98

All the more reason to let him know Downtown Hound Jan 2018 #166

I think good people make allowances for people with mental difficulties. Do... LAS14 Jan 2018 #276

Making allowances for people with mental difficulties does not mean Downtown Hound Jan 2018 #281

Why didn't you just leave, instead of challenging him to let you have your way? It sounds... LAS14 Jan 2018 #284

Because I don't have to leave Downtown Hound Jan 2018 #285

He couldn't have known from the OUTSET, before he started talking to him, pnwmom Jan 2018 #74

Early on. He shouldn't have pursued it. Ignore him or move. LAS14 Jan 2018 #99

Not that early on. If it happened to me, as a woman, I wouldn't even have known pnwmom Jan 2018 #103

Are women somehow not capable of discerning signs of mental illness? kcr Jan 2018 #159

You weren't there from the beginning. You read a passage that BEGAN with the writers pnwmom Jan 2018 #165

His CONCLUSION right at the very beginning you mean? kcr Jan 2018 #170

Sane men say crazier things than that to women every day, in a clumsy attempt pnwmom Jan 2018 #175

The difference being they're sane. kcr Jan 2018 #177

I knew nothing about the man I told to go away. I certainly didn't know he was sane pnwmom Jan 2018 #213

Are you not capable of understanding that mental illness does Downtown Hound Jan 2018 #198

Actually, mentally ill people aren't more likely to be dangerous kcr Jan 2018 #223

LOL. come walk around the streets here Downtown Hound Jan 2018 #256

Okay, let's try an experiment Downtown Hound Jan 2018 #110

You aren't making a point about civil rights for a minority treestar Jan 2018 #120

Guess what? Neither was she. Downtown Hound Jan 2018 #130

I wonder if you will end up as famous as she treestar Jan 2018 #219

Doubt it. Downtown Hound Jan 2018 #228

Welcome to every woman's world. pnwmom Jan 2018 #68

And it's wrong Downtown Hound Jan 2018 #70

I agree. That kind of response, as reasonable as it seems to be on the surface, pnwmom Jan 2018 #73

Thank you. Downtown Hound Jan 2018 #76

I wish could find the thread Sailor65x1 Jan 2018 #88

And why is that? Downtown Hound Jan 2018 #96

Do you say that when women complain about men getting in their space? The OP's story pnwmom Jan 2018 #100

No, I sure don't, Not ever. Sailor65x1 Jan 2018 #126

I think some of the men who are responding dismissively are the same kind of men who pnwmom Jan 2018 #131

And again, because I'm a strong man Downtown Hound Jan 2018 #133

Politely and firmly excuse yourself and let him talk to his tree. hunter Jan 2018 #102

What if the person wasn't crazy? What if the OP was a woman and a guy walked up, pnwmom Jan 2018 #114

How about "assertively?" hunter Jan 2018 #129

Well, if you were my great grandmas, you'd kill him. hunter Jan 2018 #143

You act like I went up to him and intruded Downtown Hound Jan 2018 #153

I've felt that way about cops at times. hunter Jan 2018 #191

This wasn't the police. Downtown Hound Jan 2018 #195

Why is it nonsense to believe that you have a right to Downtown Hound Jan 2018 #141

You can push back in whatever situation you want to. LuckyCharms Jan 2018 #173

Well, no one ever said life was safe Downtown Hound Jan 2018 #211

I think your space invader had an emotional/behavioral disability peacebuzzard Jan 2018 #117

Marking to check responses underpants Jan 2018 #128

A couple of thoughts Bayard Jan 2018 #132

Simple. Walk off. MineralMan Jan 2018 #142

Go through life letting yourself get bullied and intimidated Downtown Hound Jan 2018 #150

yes that is exactly what we are all telling you Voltaire2 Jan 2018 #152

Sure seems like it. Downtown Hound Jan 2018 #162

Dude...what was gained? MineralMan Jan 2018 #157

Yes, I was bullied and intimidated Downtown Hound Jan 2018 #169

Not so simple. I have walked off and then been followed. Many women have. pnwmom Jan 2018 #168

In that case, I'd walk toward a group of people or an open business. MineralMan Jan 2018 #260

But the OP did nothing worse than verbally engage with a person whom he didn't even know pnwmom Jan 2018 #279

Some people have a mission in life. Turbineguy Jan 2018 #156

I'm confused Texasgal Jan 2018 #171

I am dealing Downtown Hound Jan 2018 #174

Sorry...but your last sentence Texasgal Jan 2018 #178

Law advice. Downtown Hound Jan 2018 #179

Google would have framed Texasgal Jan 2018 #180

Well I'll ask Google next time Downtown Hound Jan 2018 #197

+1 spooky3 Jan 2018 #216

Just reading through this thread, it's apparent....... WillowTree Jan 2018 #199

Um, no. Downtown Hound Jan 2018 #202

Whatever. WillowTree Jan 2018 #221

So the fact that he didn't touch me makes it okay? Downtown Hound Jan 2018 #226

Brush up on your reading comprehension there, Bucko. WillowTree Jan 2018 #235

Legal definition of personal space Downtown Hound Jan 2018 #264

And, from that link....... WillowTree Jan 2018 #266

What the definiton implies is that Downtown Hound Jan 2018 #271

Fine. Next time call a cop. WillowTree Jan 2018 #275

Call a cop. Downtown Hound Jan 2018 #286

As has been pointed out to you countless times by me and a host of others...... WillowTree Jan 2018 #295

Hello Mr Lapierre XRubicon Jan 2018 #318

OP has a stench of stand your ground advocacy too. XRubicon Jan 2018 #312

It sucks when two unhinged people want the same tree... hardluck Jan 2018 #230

Well said..... womanofthehills Jan 2018 #236

That about says it all. n/t Ms. Toad Jan 2018 #240

..snort.. jberryhill Jan 2018 #241

! demmiblue Jan 2018 #248

So I'm unhinged because I feel I have a right be left alone in peace Downtown Hound Jan 2018 #259

:-) K & R LAS14 Jan 2018 #287

Actual self defense laws vary by state Lee-Lee Jan 2018 #245

There actually is a legal definition of personal space Downtown Hound Jan 2018 #262

No there isnt- Can you cite the law? Lee-Lee Jan 2018 #267

I didn't say law Downtown Hound Jan 2018 #270

You said legal definition- that means a law Lee-Lee Jan 2018 #291

I would avoid arguing with anyone who talks to a tree. LanternWaste Jan 2018 #247

................................... still_one Jan 2018 #265

And, more recently, chairs............ WillowTree Jan 2018 #269

Chairs that used to be trees! Retrograde Jan 2018 #297

I was going to say all in the same family, but....... WillowTree Jan 2018 #298

Class assignment deek Jan 2018 #277

Huh! You may just hit the nail on the head. :-) LAS14 Jan 2018 #288

Assuming you don't want to tell us what state you are in treestar Jan 2018 #290

I think he said California. WillowTree Jan 2018 #296

Harder to research, but I found this treestar Jan 2018 #320

"The right to swing [his] arms in any direction ends where your nose begins." aikoaiko Jan 2018 #292

This thread is a Moon-Bombing/I-don't-drink-with-you level of epic absurdity. LanternWaste Jan 2018 #294

Agreed. Add to cornflakes, Olive Garden and the door buzzard treestar Jan 2018 #299

OMG........I'd forgotten about the door buzzard!! Thanks for the revived laugh! WillowTree Jan 2018 #321

Yep. I'm going to add corn nuts in school lunches as my contribution to this thread... Phentex Jan 2018 #304

In reference to? Ms. Toad Jan 2018 #309

You should have just been pleasant and left... Demsrule86 Jan 2018 #313

my two cents........ Takket Jan 2018 #315