General Discussion

Edweird

(8,570 posts)

205. That, right there, is what I see at the heart of the gun control advocates

Tue Jul 24, 2012, 09:40 AM

Jul 2012

Fear. All consuming fear. Your response to someone attacking people is to lay there and hope you don't killed - and insist no one else does anything because "someone might get hurt". That boggles my mind.

I know you said "Best to get yourself and others to safety and let the cops handle the shooter." You're in a packed movie theater. There is no 'get yourself to safety' . Let the cops handle him?
They aren't there and won't be there until long after everything is over. Additionally, they aren't required to protect you. They have no obligation to run in and stop him. They can, and HAVE, waited for the shooter to stop. In other words, the cavalry isn't coming and you are on your own.

"Your chances of being a hero are not good, and would also put others in greater danger."
"Greater danger"? What possible "greater danger" could there be than some maniac intent on killing everyone? Challenge him a try to stop him. I'd say it's fairly easy to prove that my chances of survival are better if I fight back than if I don't.

If you want to lay there and be helpless that is your choice. Feel free. But to demand, as an extension of your fear, that EVERYONE ELSE 'just lay there' is supremely arrogant and selfish. Additionally, as enticing as playing armchair tactician may be, you have NO WAY of knowing what other people's skill levels and training as well as experience are. The fact that you have judged all gun owners and found their skills wanting is as unbearably condescending as it is ignorant.

No one is saying you can't be a coward - but don't try to make me one.

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I am sincerely perplexed by the "it's not an assault rifle" meme... [View all] phantom power Jul 2012 OP

Used for hunting... IF your prey is armed... Cooley Hurd Jul 2012 #1

I think we need MORE assault weapons...for the prey :) pinboy3niner Jul 2012 #3

think they made a game for that PatrynXX Jul 2012 #123

"I am ready to wreak some havoc," lol pinboy3niner Jul 2012 #128

Nothing scarier than meeting a band pscot Jul 2012 #132

I hope that's not something you encounter often pinboy3niner Jul 2012 #139

And you want a high body count lunatica Jul 2012 #13

I know quite a few hunters xmas74 Jul 2012 #51

well yeah PatrynXX Jul 2012 #131

Nothing compares with planting an arrow pscot Jul 2012 #135

Most of my friends who are serious about hunting are strictly bow, xmas74 Jul 2012 #148

But paint it camo, and.. X_Digger Jul 2012 #210

Nah. xmas74 Jul 2012 #211

Why in Gods name would you need either one for hunting...I believe movonne Jul 2012 #119

yup samsingh Jul 2012 #203

seems pretty obvous why gunners would prefer the second . . . doesn't it DrDan Jul 2012 #2

+1,000,000,000,000 Odin2005 Jul 2012 #4

Here's the thing. You are being fooled by cosmetics. Both guns perform the same. Edweird Jul 2012 #5

The problem with your comment is grantcart Jul 2012 #17

There is no 'assault weapon' in the OP or my post. Edweird Jul 2012 #30

I am not arguing for any political action. It is counter productive. grantcart Jul 2012 #90

Great post that should be an OP. Thank you. (n/t) klook Jul 2012 #114

I think I have found a flaw in your argument. quakerboy Jul 2012 #118

I don't think that individual gun rights are tied to the 2nd Ammendment. grantcart Jul 2012 #125

Really? Llewlladdwr Jul 2012 #167

In the context of the complete sentence it means grantcart Jul 2012 #169

Every member of the present Supreme Court disagrees with you slackmaster Jul 2012 #190

+1 million drm604 Jul 2012 #120

I am, too, drm604. calimary Jul 2012 #130

Thank you, Grantcart, for this well-thought-out post... Surya Gayatri Jul 2012 #127

I. LOVE. THIS. POST.!!!!! calimary Jul 2012 #129

I posted it in GD, you may want to add your thoughtful comment there. grantcart Jul 2012 #133

Done. Happy to kick it. calimary Jul 2012 #165

+1000000 nt laundry_queen Jul 2012 #192

This post is required reading for all DUers. DCBob Jul 2012 #158

Washington, DC > by law, a 9mm handgun is a machinegun. Tejas Jul 2012 #202

this is a great post. thank you. samsingh Jul 2012 #204

Groundhog Hunting? Jeff In Milwaukee Jul 2012 #172

This message was self-deleted by its author Edweird Jul 2012 #41

"Simply because hunting rifles can be converted to assault rifles doesn't mean that it should be leg rl6214 Jul 2012 #194

One funny thing about the well-worn "meaningless cosmetics" DirkGently Jul 2012 #54

You forgot to mention that the men and women that own the 200 miilion guns in the US Edweird Jul 2012 #184

So, you have no rational response. But have penises on your mind? DirkGently Jul 2012 #188

The "lethality" of a weapon is solely determined by the HUMAN operating it. Edweird Jul 2012 #191

You forgot to include that most of these "assault weapons" are ergonomically superior to hunting rif rl6214 Jul 2012 #195

Incorrect, they are very different weapons. As well "assault rifle" is VERY real and not made up pasto76 Jul 2012 #58

Really? You believe semi-auto is "more firepower" than 3 shot burst or full auto? Edweird Jul 2012 #69

Dude, do you even know why there is 3 round burst? SEMI AUTO is the MOST LETHAL pasto76 Jul 2012 #149

I think you are giving accessories way too much credit and your training and experience too little. Edweird Jul 2012 #163

Rifle caliber, Yes. Pistol caliber, No. OneTenthofOnePercent Jul 2012 #186

The Va Tech shooter fired 170 rounds killing 32 and injuring 17 rl6214 Jul 2012 #196

Bravo TroglodyteScholar Jul 2012 #71

Im a democrat. Im also a soldier. I also want people to be able to watch a goddamn movie pasto76 Jul 2012 #151

If semi-automatics with lots of accessories confer more fire-power than machine guns 4th law of robotics Jul 2012 #103

"accessory" to the untrained. Important features to soldiers. pasto76 Jul 2012 #150

You kind of argued against your own point 4th law of robotics Jul 2012 #154

wtf are you talking about pasto76 Jul 2012 #160

Perhaps the military then is unaware of what it is doing 4th law of robotics Jul 2012 #162

"Assault weapon" is the new, fashionable term. Igel Jul 2012 #79

Yeah, swapped them by accident. Edweird Jul 2012 #87

The black paint makes the bullet faster 4th law of robotics Jul 2012 #101

You're The One Being Fooled By Cosmetics, Pal. Paladin Jul 2012 #109

I don't own one black or plastic stocked rifle. You fail - as usual. Edweird Jul 2012 #138

Great point. Outlaw both. Outlaw all semi-automatic rifles. A good hunter doesnt rhett o rick Jul 2012 #112

Yeah, ok. Edweird Jul 2012 #140

I see your point, but it seems like it must be more than *just* cosmetics... phantom power Jul 2012 #121

Nope. Wooden stocks are expensive, heavy and require much more maintenance. The military developed Egalitarian Thug Jul 2012 #137

So, if I understand then, the performance differences are... phantom power Jul 2012 #206

Yep, that about sums it up. The .223 can be used for something deer sized if you are Egalitarian Thug Jul 2012 #208

Interesting, You say they are the same - they're not intaglio Jul 2012 #136

Ok Edweird Jul 2012 #143

With a maximum effective range of 100m intaglio Jul 2012 #168

It's a completely different firearm. It's a bolt action. Edweird Jul 2012 #170

LOL! liberalmuse Jul 2012 #152

AR=30rd mag. Mini 30 sporter or a woodsmaster has a 5-10 rd. mag. Also, an assault rifle takes an Erose999 Jul 2012 #178

A little knowledge is a dangerous thing. Edweird Jul 2012 #183

The phrase "well regulated militia" preceeds "keep and bear arms" and "shall not be finfringed". So Erose999 Jul 2012 #185

The Virginia Tech shooter killed 32 with 10 rd magazines. Edweird Jul 2012 #187

"The shooter might have been shot". It would have been a bad idea to pull on the shooter. several Erose999 Jul 2012 #197

You do realize that purpose of CCW is personal defense, right? Edweird Jul 2012 #198

I'm just saying its not the best idea to challenge a shooter in a situation where he has all the Erose999 Jul 2012 #201

That, right there, is what I see at the heart of the gun control advocates Edweird Jul 2012 #205

Put a 5 round magazine on it as many states require for hunting hack89 Jul 2012 #6

You are allowing yourself to be seduced by the military appearance of the AR-15. Put a scope on it, slackmaster Jul 2012 #7

why is this something to be proud of . . . . he is just beaming with pride DrDan Jul 2012 #16

why not be proud he relentlessly laid around until the beast was close enuff then blamo leftyohiolib Jul 2012 #22

to compound it, all his buddies are pounding him on the back and buying him rounds DrDan Jul 2012 #23

You may be my new favorite DUer. I laughed hysterically upon reading this post. LonePirate Jul 2012 #38

Because it tastes good slackmaster Jul 2012 #48

is steroid and hormone and antibiotic free range lean meat. Tuesday Afternoon Jul 2012 #56

it seems obvious to me that the trophy is the goal here - not the food. DrDan Jul 2012 #73

A trophy or recognition for a long-distance shot might have been the main goal slackmaster Jul 2012 #75

he's not proud of the kill Skittles Jul 2012 #116

probably the only way he can attain one DrDan Jul 2012 #146

Good question, DrDan. I don't find anything appealing in photos like that. calimary Jul 2012 #141

I have done a couple of photo safaris to Kenya - it is remarkable to see these animals in the wild DrDan Jul 2012 #145

Indeed. I bet it made him feel virile as ALL HELL! calimary Jul 2012 #147

Because for all we know... jmowreader Jul 2012 #156

FINALLY got to kill something . . . ok - got it - I understand now DrDan Jul 2012 #159

if he ate that, i wouldn't mind. if he did that just for a trophy head he'd be a sick bastard. dionysus Jul 2012 #175

completely agree - the picture, suggests to me the latter DrDan Jul 2012 #177

some "sport". lucky for us this d.b. was there to take down the man eating terror that's been leftyohiolib Jul 2012 #18

That's what they call hunting these days, huh? Starboard Tack Jul 2012 #57

A scoped rifle has been a standard weapon for hunting for well over 100 years slackmaster Jul 2012 #60

The scope is half the size as the deer. Starboard Tack Jul 2012 #70

Antelope slackmaster Jul 2012 #72

Sorry, my bad. Starboard Tack Jul 2012 #76

I've seen a heard of them running. They're amazingly fast, and you can't get close to them. slackmaster Jul 2012 #77

CORRECT! the magazine capacity is a -KEY- feature of an assualt rifle. pasto76 Jul 2012 #61

The fact that the AR-15 can accept different types of magazines makes it more useful slackmaster Jul 2012 #65

The AR-15 is actually not a rifle at all by most normal definitions. A Simple Game Jul 2012 #142

This message was self-deleted by its author pasto76 Jul 2012 #161

It can be configured with a long barrel and a fixed stock slackmaster Jul 2012 #173

There are carbine versions of the AR-15 Kaleva Jul 2012 #181

try and twist it some more pasto76 Jul 2012 #153

Placing limits on magazine capacity is a legitimate topic for discussion slackmaster Jul 2012 #155

This message was self-deleted by its author Kaleva Jul 2012 #80

True. Not terribly relevant. Igel Jul 2012 #82

funny which one of us is a combat vet? pasto76 Jul 2012 #157

Not a bad looking pronghorn...notice he invested more in the scope ileus Jul 2012 #63

This photo tell it all this bonniebgood Jul 2012 #124

He doesn't look like a terrorist to me slackmaster Jul 2012 #126

That looks like a different rifle to me muriel_volestrangler Jul 2012 #164

That's another nice feature of the AR-15 platform - Interchangeable parts slackmaster Jul 2012 #171

But the point is, combat weapons should be banned muriel_volestrangler Jul 2012 #180

I believe the distinction between combat weapons and sporting weapons was drawn correctly in 1934 slackmaster Jul 2012 #182

What particular detail makes the 2nd one more dangerous? 4th law of robotics Jul 2012 #8

Well, it's painted black and has a pistol grip, you see. Posteritatis Jul 2012 #20

The NRA nuts get off on feeling smug and superior... ellisonz Jul 2012 #9

It appears you have more of an issue with magazine capacity then with the gun itself Kaleva Jul 2012 #10

At longer ranges, the upper gun would be more dangerous in the hands of a bad guy. Kaleva Jul 2012 #11

Jesus, if it's a .30-06 it's no slouch close up either. Edweird Jul 2012 #12

No but for close range shooting, I'd choose the 2nd gun. Kaleva Jul 2012 #19

For close range, a shotgun is more deadly HooptieWagon Jul 2012 #35

And our movie theater shooter had both. Hmm! Starboard Tack Jul 2012 #66

And that... Igel Jul 2012 #83

They want to confuse you, because they have no real arguments frazzled Jul 2012 #14

No, we like knowing what we're talking about. Igel Jul 2012 #86

Sorry, we're not buying that crap anymore frazzled Jul 2012 #95

Which crap is it you aren't buying because it appears as if you have no idea. TheKentuckian Jul 2012 #144

Then they start the bullshit Gman Jul 2012 #15

It isn't an assault rifle obamanut2012 Jul 2012 #21

Those look more like "murder rifles" to me n/t Generic Brad Jul 2012 #24

Hard to ban objects by reference to function. Igel Jul 2012 #89

I suspect... HooptieWagon Jul 2012 #25

I ahve mentioned .22 bolt actions with skeleton stocks at gun shows obamanut2012 Jul 2012 #27

So the NRA crowd is ... 99Forever Jul 2012 #26

It's used for hunting 'The most dangerous game" TeamPooka Jul 2012 #28

This message was self-deleted by its author wandy Jul 2012 #29

You show how to commit Federal crimes? Tejas Jul 2012 #36

I don't even own a gun! I'm pointing out how Fing easy it is to turn this thing auto...... wandy Jul 2012 #40

Guarantee you won't after .gov gets through with your little stunt. Tejas Jul 2012 #49

Laws prohibit the manufacture or importation of guns that can be easily converted to full auto. Kaleva Jul 2012 #55

You need to do your research better then. -..__... Jul 2012 #68

They used to make gadgets that stripped out DVD anticopy signals. Igel Jul 2012 #104

Relevance? Igel Jul 2012 #93

You seem to be another who has more of an issue with the magazine capacity then with the gun itself Kaleva Jul 2012 #37

I'm just unnerved at how easy it is to convert one of these things........ wandy Jul 2012 #46

The machine work needed to do a proper conversion requires special equipment and is not simple. slackmaster Jul 2012 #53

It's not that easy on post 1986 rifles. Kaleva Jul 2012 #62

Methods 1 and 2 require precision machine work, and are no longer available to private citizens slackmaster Jul 2012 #52

No gun shop would do that -- and you should delete your post obamanut2012 Jul 2012 #67

I'll go with that. Even if ithe infor is out there. wandy Jul 2012 #85

Make them work for it obamanut2012 Jul 2012 #98

bottom rifle is an AK-47, fires child-seeking bullets Tejas Jul 2012 #31

I've seen numerous articles where it was reported that the weapon was an AK-47 Kaleva Jul 2012 #44

Yes. A banana, perhaps. n/t Igel Jul 2012 #105

Me, Too Iggy Jul 2012 #32

He could have changed standard magazines a few times HooptieWagon Jul 2012 #39

Yes. I read his drum magazine jammed. Kaleva Jul 2012 #43

Then argue for a ban on high capacity magazines. Kaleva Jul 2012 #42

Banning of anything Iggy Jul 2012 #166

Ah, the "RKBA is about hunting, not self-defense" mantra. Tejas Jul 2012 #47

The best defense is an insult. Igel Jul 2012 #110

'Assault rifle' means an automatic or select-fire rifle - i.e., more than one round petronius Jul 2012 #33

That's not the actual argument, though. Lizzie Poppet Jul 2012 #34

In the 1980's you may have been right. ileus Jul 2012 #45

Have you ever seen large spoilers attached to front wheel drive economy cars? JVS Jul 2012 #50

This obamanut2012 Jul 2012 #74

which cowards need a semi-automatic gun to hunt? samsingh Jul 2012 #59

I'd post a link to a set of photos taken by a guy in Georgia who used a spear to hunt wild pigs slackmaster Jul 2012 #64

Many people hunt with semi-auto pistols Kaleva Jul 2012 #81

Really? Why? obamanut2012 Jul 2012 #100

This is for the more populated areas Kaleva Jul 2012 #106

Gotcha -- that makes sense obamanut2012 Jul 2012 #111

Iowa has the same rules harun Jul 2012 #107

That all makes sense -- thanks! obamanut2012 Jul 2012 #113

rifled bullets, as opposed to a shotgun slug, travel vast distances (up to a mile) dionysus Jul 2012 #174

Some hunters prefer a semi-auto. Ready4Change Jul 2012 #91

I would probably go with a semiauto if I were to hunt slackmaster Jul 2012 #94

So many misconceptions in there 4th law of robotics Jul 2012 #97

Language. It's a problem. Igel Jul 2012 #134

The kind of cowards that hunt pissed-off man-eating predators jmowreader Jul 2012 #189

The overwhelming majority of U.S. gun owners are nonhunters (>80%). benEzra Jul 2012 #209

C'mon, you're saying policy should be based on the visual design of a gun? Schema Thing Jul 2012 #78

It is a semi-auto assault weapon, don't let anyone kid you. Rex Jul 2012 #84

I strongly agree. avaistheone1 Jul 2012 #88

No automatic assault guns were used in this tragedy. Kaleva Jul 2012 #92

Because it needs to be repeated: no automatics were used in CO. 4th law of robotics Jul 2012 #99

It is not an automatic weapon obamanut2012 Jul 2012 #102

As far as I am concerned.. ananda Jul 2012 #96

There are two distinct definitions for "assault rifle" MineralMan Jul 2012 #108

No, an assault rifle is an automatic weapon obamanut2012 Jul 2012 #115

to the OP: Raine1967 Jul 2012 #117

The dead don't care about the trivial technical minutiae of firearms design. baldguy Jul 2012 #122

I tell you the problem nadinbrzezinski Jul 2012 #176

Personally, I think anyone attracted to the second gun should be prohibited from owning guns. Hoyt Jul 2012 #179

What does that scary black gun do differently? rl6214 Jul 2012 #193

I think it's too scared to tell you... MrMickeysMom Jul 2012 #200

Assault rifles are select fire (full auto/semi auto); AR-15s (civilian model) are semi-auto only REP Jul 2012 #199

Thanks to those who provided some answers to my questions... phantom power Jul 2012 #207