General Discussion

Ken Burch

(50,254 posts)

155. And if I was undermining Democrats, rather than trying to elect more of them, I'd deserve that.

Thu Jan 18, 2018, 01:40 AM

Jan 2018

Last edited Thu Jan 18, 2018, 02:26 AM - Edit history (1)

I agree that the Obama Administration was better than what we've got now. The point is, that that was an exhausted form of politics and that the result we had means we need to find something at least somewhat new.

Look, you're responding to someone who did spent hours on hours on hours online, when I wasn't going door-to-door in person campaigning, trying to get people who were dissattisfied with Hillary to vote for her on antifascist grounds(in addition to pointing out that the platform was more progressive than they thought).

I was FIGHTING the people who claimed there was no difference and the people who claimed Bernie was forced to endorse Hillary. I told them that was bullshit over and over and over again.

What is so terrible, now that we are in the NEXT cycle, about calling for things that would only help?

It's not possible to believe we could do better in 2018 and 2020 by saying "Obama was beter, Hillary WOULD have been better". That doesn't matter and that doesn't change votes, or turn non-voters into voters.

And there would have been no difference in the outcome last time if everyone had said "what we're doing is perfect".

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Those taking a strict "no Dem must be primaried" position may have a point... [View all] Ken Burch Jan 2018 OP

your post brought to mind the announcement that Chelsey Manning was going to run in Maryland hlthe2b Jan 2018 #1

Some Info Me. Jan 2018 #5

hmmm... I guess she is quite compliant for others to manipulate. hlthe2b Jan 2018 #9

Or Maybe We Need To Ask What She's Up To Me. Jan 2018 #10

perhaps... n/t hlthe2b Jan 2018 #11

Glenn Greenwald, the libertarian/Wikileaks/Intercept guy, is a big supporter. pnwmom Jan 2018 #161

How about we take back Congress and some Governor's Mansions first? mcar Jan 2018 #2

Is there any reason to assume we can ONLY take back Congress and make other gains... Ken Burch Jan 2018 #4

No One Is Shutting Down Debate Me. Jan 2018 #8

Not sure what you're defining as "constant criticism". Ken Burch Jan 2018 #12

If Anyone Thinks The Purity Police Have Disappeared Me. Jan 2018 #15

Actually, Kamala's seen much more favorably by progressives now. Ken Burch Jan 2018 #19

I Refer You To The Link Provided Me. Jan 2018 #24

The platform thing would ONLY be if she actually ran. Ken Burch Jan 2018 #33

As to Harris, you're talking there about the response people had to her from months back. Ken Burch Jan 2018 #37

The Date Of That Piece Me. Jan 2018 #48

Yes, with Senator Booker it was about being too centrist. Ken Burch Jan 2018 #53

Oh Do TRy Not To Be Disingenuous Me. Jan 2018 #55

It sounded like you sort of tied me into people freaking out over the idea of Oprah running. Ken Burch Jan 2018 #58

If You Are Not Part Of The PP Me. Jan 2018 #67

I don't think I am. Ken Burch Jan 2018 #72

Nonsense Me. Jan 2018 #76

Again with the strawmen. ehrnst Jan 2018 #131

You do realize that the left has attacked every candidate you mentioned...none are good enough. Demsrule86 Jan 2018 #64

They have criticized them...they haven't "attacked" them. Ken Burch Jan 2018 #68

Oh no they were attacked viciously... Demsrule86 Jan 2018 #74

Kamala has now won a lot of progressives over by embracing single payer. Ken Burch Jan 2018 #77

I don't care who the candidates are. And I will vote for whoever emerges as the nominee. Demsrule86 Jan 2018 #79

I'll support the nominee, too. Ken Burch Jan 2018 #83

Calling a Democrat a corporatist, "Turd Way" er mcar Jan 2018 #93

I never used the term "Turd Way". Ken Burch Jan 2018 #156

I think most of the push back over Oprah was because of inexperience, not "political purity". annabanana Jan 2018 #28

Yeah...it wasn't "she's not progressive enough". Ken Burch Jan 2018 #39

Oh No Me. Jan 2018 #43

What would you say about the argument made somebody at the link Ken Burch Jan 2018 #63

By saying no. We are not Republicans. We want a serious candidate...a qualified candidate. Demsrule86 Jan 2018 #103

Nobody overreacted to a speech and it has nothing to do with "purity" Bradshaw3 Jan 2018 #80

But Why Should She Be Questioned About Anything Me. Jan 2018 #82

Critical thinking is good for a democracy Bradshaw3 Jan 2018 #84

She Is Nothing Like The Current Resident Me. Jan 2018 #85

I'm with you, Ken. Sophia4 Jan 2018 #56

You just changed the parameters of your OP mcar Jan 2018 #21

yeah annabanana Jan 2018 #35

Uh, no, both were in there. Ken Burch Jan 2018 #40

Yes there is every reason to believe the endless debate and bickering has cost us and will cost Demsrule86 Jan 2018 #62

"Holding them accountable" is not the same thing as "encouraging debate." pnwmom Jan 2018 #160

And Very Clearly Said Me. Jan 2018 #7

Thanks Me. mcar Jan 2018 #23

Yes, I understand the intent, but we lose our democracy when elected officials Irish_Dem Jan 2018 #3

Which Democrats do you feel are not being held accountable? And... NurseJackie Jan 2018 #31

I didn't say any of these things Nurse Jackie. Irish_Dem Jan 2018 #44

You didn't have to... your meaning was clear. NurseJackie Jan 2018 #57

Here is what you said: ehrnst Jan 2018 #117

Amazing indeed, that you apparently believe this. guillaumeb Jan 2018 #126

LOL! NurseJackie Jan 2018 #128

I'm not familiar with any Democrats like you describe. ehrnst Jan 2018 #38

Absolute power corrupts absolutely. Irish_Dem Jan 2018 #46

This message was self-deleted by its author emulatorloo Jan 2018 #54

No one said do away with them...that is not the point...primarying sitting Dems this year is stupid. Demsrule86 Jan 2018 #87

This right here mcar Jan 2018 #95

That is my point...these people fail to understand that the point of an election is to win... Demsrule86 Jan 2018 #140

I was thinking about what you said...and by God. The Democratic Party has been saved from corruption Demsrule86 Jan 2018 #102

That's doesn't answer my question. Here it is again: ehrnst Jan 2018 #115

Who is talking about doing away with Primaries? ehrnst Jan 2018 #118

We have almost lost our democracy by electing the GOP ...the money issue stems from United which Demsrule86 Jan 2018 #66

People Below? Me. Jan 2018 #6

Women under 30, people of color under 30, the poor of all races and ages, rank-and-file labor, Ken Burch Jan 2018 #13

Why Are They Considered Below Me. Jan 2018 #14

It's in reference to the power structure. Ken Burch Jan 2018 #16

Yet It Presents Them As UNder Me. Jan 2018 #18

It's tied to the idea that change comes from below...from the people. Ken Burch Jan 2018 #26

Perhaps Your're Not Acquainted With Terms Like 'Below Stairs' Me. Jan 2018 #45

I know of "below stairs"-I'll rethink the phraseology. Ken Burch Jan 2018 #49

That Is What I'm Saying Me. Jan 2018 #51

There has to be some way of describing those working for change Ken Burch Jan 2018 #60

There is a word...if you are working against Democrats...the word is Republican. Demsrule86 Jan 2018 #88

NO Dem voted for the Republican tax heist. This means something Hortensis Jan 2018 #17

And I salute Dems in the House and Senate for that. Ken Burch Jan 2018 #27

There's NO SUCH THING as a "one-size-fits-all" Democrat... NurseJackie Jan 2018 #20

Completely bogus "smears". Thank Cha Jan 2018 #25

And this is why a real 50-state plan includes a range of Democrats mcar Jan 2018 #34

Thank you Nurse Jackie. It's just a continuation of the usual divide & conquer tactics. I wish.... Tarheel_Dem Jan 2018 #81

+1 betsuni Jan 2018 #91

Thank you, Nurse Jackie Hekate Jan 2018 #113

Absolutely - we are the party of aligned, but different coalitions. That is our strength. ehrnst Jan 2018 #116

I've got no problem with primary challenges. dawg Jan 2018 #22

Agreed. Ken Burch Jan 2018 #29

LOL! So THAT's what this is all about, eh? NurseJackie Jan 2018 #32

Yep. sheshe2 Jan 2018 #36

I am against all primaries of sitting Dems...just want to get that out there...it is a stupid waste Demsrule86 Jan 2018 #69

Primaries are part of our system left-of-center2012 Jan 2018 #30

I'm not anti-primary. That wasn't my point at all. Ken Burch Jan 2018 #41

No thanks left-of-center2012 Jan 2018 #42

There is no debate when people are installed or guaranteed a job. nt Irish_Dem Jan 2018 #50

Exactly, or we just go back to Tammany Hall politics. nt Irish_Dem Jan 2018 #47

I suppose you would rather the GOP decides for us because that is what is happening and will Demsrule86 Jan 2018 #70

We don't elect politicians for life. left-of-center2012 Jan 2018 #94

Yeah...so much better to lose the courts for a generation...primaries of Senator and House Demsrule86 Jan 2018 #104

Whatever left-of-center2012 Jan 2018 #107

No primaries????? Sophia4 Jan 2018 #52

LOL! No it's not! NurseJackie Jan 2018 #59

you do understand we are talking about an unknown person spending big money to try to Demsrule86 Jan 2018 #71

That is a horrible idea. We need a free party. Sophia4 Jan 2018 #97

In a perfect world that might be true...but a costly divisive primary as we may remember can Demsrule86 Jan 2018 #105

We have talked about this before. Don't hold your party 'accountable' this sort of thing has caused Demsrule86 Jan 2018 #61

The way to win is to fire up the base. Ken Burch Jan 2018 #75

No in red states...we need moderate candidates to take back the House and the Senate... Demsrule86 Jan 2018 #78

The Base of the Democratic Party is women mcar Jan 2018 #96

Fired up and ready to go. Demsrule86 Jan 2018 #106

You seem to have a big misunderstanding of what "the base" actually means. NurseJackie Jan 2018 #98

You can fire up the base all you want in a red state and will still lose...you have to tailer the Demsrule86 Jan 2018 #132

True! There is no point in holding them accountable treestar Jan 2018 #130

Im always for a robust primary. NCTraveler Jan 2018 #65

I am against primarying sitting Dems at the house or Senate level. Demsrule86 Jan 2018 #73

Again accusing Democrats of not standing with the working class/poor. betsuni Jan 2018 #86

It is insulting and such talk is why we lose...and drive the voters we need away. Demsrule86 Jan 2018 #89

Yes. betsuni Jan 2018 #90

What should we do instead? Pretend none of that is true? Ken Burch Jan 2018 #136

It isn't true that Democrats don't stand with the working class...and that is not why we lost. Demsrule86 Jan 2018 #137

There's a distinction between rank-and-file Dems like you or I on that, Ken Burch Jan 2018 #143

Names...what leader had done this. I don't know any. Demsrule86 Jan 2018 #144

No party ever made a comeback from a disappointing showing by saying "stay the course". Ken Burch Jan 2018 #150

Sure they have... if the 16 election had little to do with issues you have discussed Demsrule86 Jan 2018 #151

I acknowledge that Dems have done well in those areas. Ken Burch Jan 2018 #166

What is it with you on this? Ken Burch Jan 2018 #92

Actually she pointed out that your "criticisms" were repetitive, old, unoriginal and without merit. NurseJackie Jan 2018 #100

JHC.. Mahalo for deconstructing Cha Jan 2018 #111

It's not personal, it's business. betsuni Jan 2018 #121

Thanks for at least that explanation. But the ideas you list that way AREN'T "anti-Democratic" Ken Burch Jan 2018 #125

Don't talk to me as if I don't know what you're doing. betsuni Jan 2018 #133

ALL I'm doing is speaking as a loyal Dem. Ken Burch Jan 2018 #134

LOYAL DEM! "Why is that so hard to accept?" betsuni Jan 2018 #147

I like Spike Jones, too, but that isn't a response. Ken Burch Jan 2018 #148

No, it was the constant undermining of Democrats that saw 70,000-something people R B Garr Jan 2018 #154

And if I was undermining Democrats, rather than trying to elect more of them, I'd deserve that. Ken Burch Jan 2018 #155

Quote: exhausted form of politics. Those kinds of empty accusations R B Garr Jan 2018 #157

I was trying to HELP us retain power, ok? Ken Burch Jan 2018 #158

This isnt how it was done, though. None of what you are describing R B Garr Jan 2018 #163

I despise Trump as much as you do. Ken Burch Jan 2018 #164

"There's no case for maintaining the Democratic status quo when it was that status quo that ... betsuni Jan 2018 #162

Yes, I said that before. So what? It's true. Ken Burch Jan 2018 #165

"And these posts of yours are getting pretty damn close to stalking." betsuni Jan 2018 #167

I don't want YOUR "attention". I just want you to stop following me around and heckling me Ken Burch Jan 2018 #168

"Why look a gift horse in the mouth?" OMG! :-D NurseJackie Jan 2018 #169

You speak the truth... and I see you've also struck a nerve. NurseJackie Jan 2018 #99

Thanks, Jackie! betsuni Jan 2018 #110

Exactly. Pretty much a running theme in these OPs. LanternWaste Jan 2018 #120

Those are valid points, not "ideas". Ken Burch Jan 2018 #135

I have no issues with primaries but I have issues with PragmaticDem Jan 2018 #101

The point of elections is to obtain power, not to send "accountability" messages struggle4progress Jan 2018 #108

You nailed it!!!!! Demsrule86 Jan 2018 #138

I think an easy solution is for people to vote for the candidate in the primary who they support. David__77 Jan 2018 #109

We are defending many more seats in the Senate than the GOP...thus it is a money issue... Demsrule86 Jan 2018 #139

I don't think they have a point at all. I think its terribly undemocratic, and the rationale is JCanete Jan 2018 #112

Primaries cost money. We need money to overcome a gerrymander and we have what three times as many Demsrule86 Jan 2018 #141

All politics are local. herding cats Jan 2018 #114

We are of the same mind. If we don't live in a state, we need to mind our own business. Demsrule86 Jan 2018 #146

Guess I haven't been following this particular topic. I don't understand the objection to anyone Vinca Jan 2018 #119

Ugh, what a completely false and dishonest spin. R B Garr Jan 2018 #122

The to adjectives you picked were perfect! The interjection you used... NurseJackie Jan 2018 #123

Exactly! Ive been wondering the same thing R B Garr Jan 2018 #127

Who are the "those" you're talking about, Ken? MineralMan Jan 2018 #124

You are going to have to run yourself if you expect to have a say in it treestar Jan 2018 #129

Wait we will see Russian and/or GOP funded challengers...already Demsrule86 Jan 2018 #145

+1 treestar Jan 2018 #149

Thank you. Demsrule86 Jan 2018 #152

the point being that Russia can fund lots of Dem challengers McCamy Taylor Jan 2018 #142

I agree and write down the name of the candidate so you remember who in the age Demsrule86 Jan 2018 #153

Let's talk about holding Democrats "accountable" once they're actually in POWER. pnwmom Jan 2018 #159