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Buckeye_Democrat

(15,526 posts)

11. I don't think it was the main issue, but it didn't help Hillary.

Reply to TheMastersNemesis (Original post)

Fri Jan 19, 2018, 09:14 AM

Jan 2018

I voted for her mostly because I knew Trump would be a disaster, but she didn't excite me after Bill's neoliberalism and acquiescence to the GOP.

I cheered for Trump in the Republican primaries only because I knew that Hillary would win the Democratic nomination and I was sure that she would beat him (in the electoral college and otherwise). Nope.

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NAFTA Was Bill Clintons Biggest Historic Blunder. Festering Resentment Sunk Hillary In The End. [View all] TheMastersNemesis Jan 2018 OP

That probably rings true to some degree Lee-Lee Jan 2018 #1

Flyover country includes farmers, and they did great NickB79 Jan 2018 #2

+1 nycbos Jan 2018 #34

At least big ag did well. SharonClark Jan 2018 #131

Not for American small farmers Farmer-Rick Jan 2018 #155

NAFTA was started and steered toward enactment by George H.W. Bush for the most part. no_hypocrisy Jan 2018 #3

Thank you. I was just about to post this. nt a la izquierda Jan 2018 #8

That doesnt matter to people who lost their jobs when the factories closed YessirAtsaFact Jan 2018 #26

GHWB couldn't get it done; Clinton could shanny Jan 2018 #9

agreed gopiscrap Jan 2018 #106

oh OK he only signed it so it's all good shanny Jan 2018 #24

And what's the point of the OP? It's old news, very old. We've got an orange maniac to deal with. brush Jan 2018 #56

not a fan of truth and reconciliation in general? ok shanny Jan 2018 #74

Not a fan of rewriting history- the only economic issue Trump won on was fear of immigrants- bettyellen Jan 2018 #81

Trump lost on economic issues, including among union voters. He won because the FBI deliberately StevieM Jan 2018 #92

He did not lose on economic issues and the OP is correct. former9thward Jan 2018 #116

That poll was taken before the election and before HRC destroyed Trump in 3 debates. StevieM Jan 2018 #118

Fine, if you have better information than just your opinion then post it. former9thward Jan 2018 #123

2016 exit polling tammywammy Jan 2018 #124

Thanks for the link. former9thward Jan 2018 #138

I see you too. shanny Jan 2018 #141

False narratives arent helpful when determining where the party goes from here. Were not going to bettyellen Jan 2018 #143

Not all anti-trade voters are bigots shanny Jan 2018 #144

Why are we still discussing your false narrative about trade being the huge issue? You think if you bettyellen Jan 2018 #146

Please do point out where I said "trade (is) the huge issue"? I'll wait. shanny Jan 2018 #148

You referred to the OP as truth and reconciliation and now you walk it back? Lotta integrity bettyellen Jan 2018 #149

Nice try. shanny Jan 2018 #150

You were defending the warped and innacurate POV of this OP. bettyellen Jan 2018 #151

just side-stepping your out-of-context "quote" shanny Jan 2018 #158

Why does your post 137 show concern about moving forward, R B Garr Jan 2018 #157

Slippery reasoning- youd have to believe they meant nothing at all... bettyellen Jan 2018 #160

Exactly, and exactly right about the false narratives. R B Garr Jan 2018 #161

Great, just what we need, Dem navel gazing in despair from 5 elections ago. brush Jan 2018 #89

That seems to be about it Hekate Jan 2018 #121

yes, let's keep on looking forward and not back shanny Jan 2018 #137

It explains why Clinton lost in key states. Sophia4 Jan 2018 #76

Voters who cited economics as #1 went for HRC. Immigration and the wall put him over w voters. bettyellen Jan 2018 #82

I wonder how many of those who voted for Trump are immigrants or the children Sophia4 Jan 2018 #84

Disgruntled far lefties pushed the NAFTA meme more than the GOP did- they still are trying to claim bettyellen Jan 2018 #88

Clinton "loss" because of vote suppression, Putin, Assange, Comey, broken voting machines... brush Jan 2018 #90

We need election protection action. Sophia4 Jan 2018 #94

Oh please. This is a common repug trick. Don't give us that "Why wasn't this done in 2016?" brush Jan 2018 #96

Was election protection done in vulnerable areas at least in 2016? Sophia4 Jan 2018 #97

No mention of Putin, Assange, Comey? brush Jan 2018 #98

Putin and Assange may have swayed a number of voters, but the post I Sophia4 Jan 2018 #100

In open primaries I suppose, where others can influence Dem elections? brush Jan 2018 #102

No. In a primary in which you have to be well versed on the rules if you are Sophia4 Jan 2018 #105

Open primaries are a horrible idea, as are caucuses. brush Jan 2018 #110

Tell that to young people and others who register for strange parties. Sophia4 Jan 2018 #115

Registering as a Democrat is not hard. If they really are Dems they will. brush Jan 2018 #117

Technical details don't matter in matters of politics. jl_theprofessor Jan 2018 #126

ditto. nt LSFL Jan 2018 #135

No. Russian interference in our election sunk Hillary. GoCubsGo Jan 2018 #4

Lol Fullduplexxx Jan 2018 #5

No, it was russia and racism. They had no problem voting for free trade GOP over Feingold JI7 Jan 2018 #6

+1, Fiengold loss has a couple of tells in it that stuff went REALLY wrong in 16 1. the flip in ... uponit7771 Jan 2018 #21

Another "Hey, let's pretend the world is not globalizing" post. Adrahil Jan 2018 #7

Transform them into what? shanny Jan 2018 #10

Maybe we can all become bankers? Buckeye_Democrat Jan 2018 #12

there ya go shanny Jan 2018 #23

Hey, by all means, tell me how you do it!? Adrahil Jan 2018 #46

Tell me what we all adapt to and I'll do it. lapfog_1 Jan 2018 #108

Lots of possibilities. Adrahil Jan 2018 #44

Green alone would create millions of new jobs if we had a non traitor, non criminal in the WH Eliot Rosewater Jan 2018 #52

if you think people would forgo their toys shanny Jan 2018 #73

Amen.... vi5 Jan 2018 #77

You're on the right track. Green energy, infrastructure and tech with job training for all brush Jan 2018 #107

Yeah, that's what we were told as people with great paying jobs/skills were being let go. We would RKP5637 Jan 2018 #104

It isn't about if, but how zipplewrath Jan 2018 #17

Exactly... and they are not protectionist. Adrahil Jan 2018 #45

Good Policy zipplewrath Jan 2018 #67

Very intelligent post. Employers' taxes should pay for training and educating our Sophia4 Jan 2018 #79

Yup zipplewrath Jan 2018 #85

No. Let's stand athwart history and yell "Stop". DemocratSinceBirth Jan 2018 #18

I don't think it was the main issue, but it didn't help Hillary. Buckeye_Democrat Jan 2018 #11

I made that mistake 16 years earlier genxlib Jan 2018 #14

I figured that Du(m)bya had a shot. Buckeye_Democrat Jan 2018 #16

So was I mvd Jan 2018 #69

Comey and the FBI were the main factors in that election, hands down. StevieM Jan 2018 #93

I don't know about destroyed, but I already said they were factors mvd Jan 2018 #132

She already won the popular vote handily mvd Jan 2018 #133

She would have won--decisively--had it not been for James Comey. (eom) StevieM Jan 2018 #95

I think there is some truth to what you say genxlib Jan 2018 #13

Deplorables are motivated by racial anxiety. not economic anxiety. DemocratSinceBirth Jan 2018 #15

This Is A Fact Post in This Thread ProfessorGAC Jan 2018 #25

+1 EffieBlack Jan 2018 #27

You are leaving out the most important element of their toxic brew - slavish devotion to patriarchy. Moostache Jan 2018 #30

Also true. Men feeling superfluous and striking back. Sophia4 Jan 2018 #83

+1 Blue_Tires Jan 2018 #66

Hard to say. The racial anxiety grows out of the economic anxiety. Sophia4 Jan 2018 #80

no, they are just a bunch of racist fucking bigots. Native Americans have it worse and they aren't JI7 Jan 2018 #139

Those are related mythology Jan 2018 #113

Those jobs were going to cheaper labor markets no matter what. yardwork Jan 2018 #19

THIS DemocratSinceBirth Jan 2018 #33

I agree. MGKrebs Jan 2018 #49

I recall that being the reasoning behind NAFTA at the time. yardwork Jan 2018 #129

Post removed Post removed Jan 2018 #20

NAFTA began as a Conservative ideal, laissez-Faire approach to economics. Saboburns Jan 2018 #22

Are we living in parallel universes GulfCoast66 Jan 2018 #91

Clinton Derangement Syndrome is real. NCTraveler Jan 2018 #28

I remember when Clinton was elected. Before he took office... haele Jan 2018 #37

+1000, this looks like the Dem bashing from the Hartmann R B Garr Jan 2018 #42

Well, let's get rid of the European Common Market, or the EU, while we're at it... Rollo Jan 2018 #29

All false Johnny2X2X Jan 2018 #31

Trump has a GOP Congress. If he wanted to end NAFTA he could. DemocratSinceBirth Jan 2018 #35

Trade is good Johnny2X2X Jan 2018 #38

You Simply Do Not Get It. There WAS NO Net Gain. Worked At DOL For 24 Years. Saw The Carnage Daily. TheMastersNemesis Jan 2018 #70

Thanks for the anecdotal evidence Johnny2X2X Jan 2018 #72

Absolutely incorrect mythology Jan 2018 #130

The same NAFTA complainers go to Walmart HopeAgain Jan 2018 #32

I was working and an active union member mountain grammy Jan 2018 #36

i think the crime bill's effect was probably bigger questionseverything Jan 2018 #153

Yes, many of us saw first hand the factory closures and heard people telling how they had to OhioBlue Jan 2018 #163

No. It was Russia and sexism. Aristus Jan 2018 #39

These comments project authority and knowledge. Makes one curious. appalachiablue Jan 2018 #165

What do I care? Aristus Jan 2018 #166

Evident and South Parkesque. Generalizing and characterizing appalachiablue Jan 2018 #167

That's a very thorough and complete political history of West Virginia. Aristus Jan 2018 #168

I disagreed with NAFTA. But you do understand that many Democrats are/were for freetrade Demsrule86 Jan 2018 #40

Democrats At The Time Were Against NAFTA As It Was Negotiated. Bush Admin Had Negotiated It. TheMastersNemesis Jan 2018 #48

They were not all against it. Demsrule86 Jan 2018 #68

Agree. I knew Trump was resonating with rust-belt voters just like Michael More did Quixote1818 Jan 2018 #41

Unfortunately, that's my understanding too... Upthevibe Jan 2018 #43

Flint Michigan was an economic disaster before NAFTA-Moore's delisen Jan 2018 #156

Economics had nothing obnoxiousdrunk Jan 2018 #47

Yeah, its not about pushing there agenda Codeine Jan 2018 #58

"Economics had nothing to do with Hillary's loss. Sorry not buying it ..." LenaBaby61 Jan 2018 #75

since no one ever checked the machines...we really don't know questionseverything Jan 2018 #152

Bill Clinton:such a powerful president he got union workers and delisen Jan 2018 #50

Like this I do. IADEMO2004 Jan 2018 #112

Yes Hekate Jan 2018 #125

This message was self-deleted by its author brush Jan 2018 #51

Oh please. It was misogyny. Codeine Jan 2018 #53

yes it was, but it was pushed over by Comey and the media still_one Jan 2018 #59

They certainly didnt help, did they? Codeine Jan 2018 #61

same here still_one Jan 2018 #63

True. And the OP proves that by treestar Jan 2018 #147

This sounds like it was copied from JPR. Automation/technology are responsible for most lost jobs. LonePirate Jan 2018 #54

Exactly. It sounds like JPR. The facts about Russian R B Garr Jan 2018 #64

Add the fact it is Clinton bashing on the day Trumpy and his co-conspirators in the GOP FSogol Jan 2018 #78

Exactly. Hoyt Jan 2018 #101

no, what sunk Hillary was Comey releasing the letter to the republicans in Congress 11 days before still_one Jan 2018 #55

Certainly The Russians & Comey Were Big Factors. It All Added Up. TheMastersNemesis Jan 2018 #60

His mistake was to be for NAFTA. He should have said he was against it. BSdetect Jan 2018 #57

Anytime Labor Issues Come Up Regarding Trade I Hear Well Clinton Passed NAFTA. TheMastersNemesis Jan 2018 #62

I recall it as a big disappointment when Clinton said "I support this NAFTA" The_Casual_Observer Jan 2018 #65

Our Trade Policy Has Been A Disaster & Kept Wages From Rising Like They Should. Here's Why. TheMastersNemesis Jan 2018 #71

I think the Telecommunications Act of 1996 that he signed played a bigger role. Snotcicles Jan 2018 #86

One of many factors each of which could be held responsible for the situation we are in randr Jan 2018 #87

Oh bullshit. ismnotwasm Jan 2018 #99

Does that mean we are supposed to support trump for reneging on NAFTA and TPP? Hoyt Jan 2018 #103

Plus One DemocratSinceBirth Jan 2018 #111

Recommended, but I disagree. guillaumeb Jan 2018 #109

I agree with you on both comments Jarqui Jan 2018 #114

Except Hillary WON by 3 million more votes than Trump. It took the combined efforts of treason.... Hekate Jan 2018 #119

Well She Probably Actually Won Those Stolen States. The Vote Was Close Enough To Steal It. TheMastersNemesis Jan 2018 #120

In the face of all the evidence to teh contrary, you believe that Hekate Jan 2018 #122

Hillary won the popular vote. Putin and Comey sank her. nt Irish_Dem Jan 2018 #127

Clinton/Gore were pro-business/tech Dems radius777 Jan 2018 #128

Trump needed simple talking points and NAFTA was perfect for that Awsi Dooger Jan 2018 #134

I despise a populist Democratic Party as much as a republican one. GulfCoast66 Jan 2018 #136

I agree with a lot of that. Trading among ourselves will get us nowhere. Hoyt Jan 2018 #142

People need to stop making excuses for White Bigots JI7 Jan 2018 #140

Congressional Republicans supported NAFTA oberliner Jan 2018 #145

25+ Years of Propaganda Bettie Jan 2018 #154

Certainly Correct On That One. TheMastersNemesis Jan 2018 #159

but it wasn't the younger voters she had a problem with , it was mostly older white men JI7 Jan 2018 #162

I can not even begin to tell you how many Bettie Jan 2018 #164