General Discussion

nadinbrzezinski

(154,021 posts)

10. And how many civies would have died from that return fire?

Tue Jul 24, 2012, 11:06 AM

Jul 2012

There is a reason why police procedures emphasize clear shot and follow through...yes, I know this for a fact.

If you had a LEO in that mess..chances are they would have become good witnesses...and only opened fire if they had a clear shot.

Now tough one, you know how fast this was? No, this is not Hollywood...tell you the seconds, 90.

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Some thoughts on the "If someone else had a gun" argument re: Aurora [View all] WilliamPitt Jul 2012 OP

Again. If only I had been there with my briefcase nuke. onehandle Jul 2012 #1

I'm still not quite ready to go Whisp Jul 2012 #78

conservatives consistently have the highest number of idiots and they support morons. samsingh Jul 2012 #216

Us libs? UnrepentantLiberal Jul 2012 #209

After 11+ years on Democratic Underground? onehandle Jul 2012 #229

I guess that would make you Dr. Goldentroll. UnrepentantLiberal Jul 2012 #230

+1,000 ... 1StrongBlackMan Jul 2012 #2

I was watching TV WilliamPitt Jul 2012 #3

The tv machine emphasized the body armor nadinbrzezinski Jul 2012 #5

You identify what he was wearing HockeyMom Jul 2012 #16

No, the Chief of Police did nadinbrzezinski Jul 2012 #18

They planted this? HockeyMom Jul 2012 #27

Looks like a "gas can"? Remmah2 Jul 2012 #35

this is just some stuff they found in the car. Nothing there says this is everything he wore librechik Jul 2012 #44

Here is how he was dressed according to the Pragmatic Progressive's FB page Esse Quam Videri Jul 2012 #115

yep--and there wasn't time and too much confusion for a bunch of guys to get together librechik Jul 2012 #117

There were at least four members of the military in the audience Esse Quam Videri Jul 2012 #123

yes--even they were unable to stop the massacre-- librechik Jul 2012 #147

Because it is so reasonable to believe that their military training... Clames Jul 2012 #236

He was actually nadinbrzezinski Jul 2012 #55

One again, he was nadinbrzezinski Jul 2012 #58

when facts are against what gun supporters want to hear, they must be lies samsingh Jul 2012 #29

Willfully ignorance nadinbrzezinski Jul 2012 #57

The myth that if the customers were permitted to have their guns HockeyMom Jul 2012 #65

only because they feel good about their guns and how the others feel uncomfortable means nothing. samsingh Jul 2012 #68

The reality is nadinbrzezinski Jul 2012 #69

you are spot on, nadin. Whisp Jul 2012 #93

+1,000,000,000 x 1,000,000,000 - Well put and definitely coalition_unwilling Jul 2012 #121

Well said loyalsister Jul 2012 #196

You can still be shot to death wearing body armor. It doesn't make you invincible. Edweird Jul 2012 #91

That is why you need something that will defeat it nadinbrzezinski Jul 2012 #92

No, you just need a well placed or lucky shot. Edweird Jul 2012 #98

The weak point was the glass in the gas mask nadinbrzezinski Jul 2012 #102

Actually police (as a whole) aren't all that good shots in general. Edweird Jul 2012 #118

Not according to what the police says he was wearing nadinbrzezinski Jul 2012 #119

He was wearing a Blackhawk ballistic vest. NOT BULLETPROOF. NOT EVEN FULL COVERAGE. Edweird Jul 2012 #134

So you are accusing the Chief of Police nadinbrzezinski Jul 2012 #139

Post removed Post removed Jul 2012 #155

I am repeating what he said nadinbrzezinski Jul 2012 #158

No, I *DON'T* have to live with gun grabber lies. I will point them out. Edweird Jul 2012 #160

Take it to the chief nadinbrzezinski Jul 2012 #163

The 'chief' didn't post here - you did. If I can find the truth in seconds why should you be able Edweird Jul 2012 #167

Once again nadinbrzezinski Jul 2012 #168

Once again, the truth is still the truth and it's YOUR responsibility. Edweird Jul 2012 #171

Alas that's not what he was wearing nadinbrzezinski Jul 2012 #173

LULZ. If you say so. My cite has the company that sold him his gear. Yours has nothing. Edweird Jul 2012 #178

You mean quotes from actual presser nadinbrzezinski Jul 2012 #183

Ok, if you're so sure then show me what he bought and where he bought it. Edweird Jul 2012 #186

Well given the FBI can't nadinbrzezinski Jul 2012 #189

Oh, so they know everything he bought and where, just not that. Yeah right. Edweird Jul 2012 #194

What part of the word CAN't Are you purposely missing? nadinbrzezinski Jul 2012 #198

LOL. You can't show it, because it didn't happen. Look closely at the links. Edweird Jul 2012 #204

"American" is not a language. zappaman Jul 2012 #226

If you are going to sarcastically call someone a "genius", it would help to spell it correctly. zappaman Jul 2012 #222

A list of his purchases was released to the media. The vest listed is not in any way armor. ProgressiveProfessor Jul 2012 #232

Well, that is what Oates said nadinbrzezinski Jul 2012 #234

Its a conflict in data...common in the real world ProgressiveProfessor Jul 2012 #235

Doubt whatever you want. I could care less. Edweird Jul 2012 #135

Help me out... ArtiChoke Jul 2012 #150

I don't speak for anyone but myself. I am calling no one coward. Edweird Jul 2012 #152

You do realize that you get nowhere arguing with the Range Rambos... TreasonousBastard Jul 2012 #241

I know, why my ignore list is growing nadinbrzezinski Jul 2012 #242

OK WilliamPitt Jul 2012 #122

He went in through the fire exit. The fire exits I know of are in the front. Edweird Jul 2012 #128

How about a CCW holder being BLINDED by tear gas? HockeyMom Jul 2012 #245

If the other customers had guns.... dickthegrouch Jul 2012 #244

Because the media cited item that he was purported wearing wasn't armor ProgressiveProfessor Jul 2012 #231

What? Shadowflash Jul 2012 #4

Not to mention Gin Jul 2012 #7

it's hard to shoot back when you're shot in the back samsingh Jul 2012 #30

I go to an indoor shooting range every once in a while tavalon Jul 2012 #6

No, it is not pointless nadinbrzezinski Jul 2012 #12

he would have been moving samsingh Jul 2012 #32

And have you practiced with teargas in your eyes? MiniMe Jul 2012 #191

i gave many reasons why my "skills" or most any one elses tavalon Jul 2012 #240

You, at least, admit it... TreasonousBastard Jul 2012 #237

Exactly! tavalon Jul 2012 #239

Yeah, well If I were there johnnie Jul 2012 #8

Wow. Shadowflash Jul 2012 #24

maybe your guns would have scared him away samsingh Jul 2012 #33

yes--anyone would have done the same-except for everybody who was actually there librechik Jul 2012 #120

You are the winner! Iggo Jul 2012 #224

In the confusion rrneck Jul 2012 #9

And how many civies would have died from that return fire? nadinbrzezinski Jul 2012 #10

You missed the point. rrneck Jul 2012 #22

No, not really nadinbrzezinski Jul 2012 #26

Nobody in that theatre rrneck Jul 2012 #34

No what you presented was a fantasy nadinbrzezinski Jul 2012 #60

Good for you. rrneck Jul 2012 #70

If you were following the case nadinbrzezinski Jul 2012 #72

So catch me up. rrneck Jul 2012 #80

You can pick up a paper nadinbrzezinski Jul 2012 #86

Now you're cooking. rrneck Jul 2012 #100

Nah, I can see you are living in Hollywood land nadinbrzezinski Jul 2012 #105

If you followed this sub thread rrneck Jul 2012 #108

You also said that you were an ex-cop before. Was that when you had the shoot outs? SlimJimmy Jul 2012 #190

"I have actually been involved in a few shootouts." zappaman Jul 2012 #223

if the shooter had thought there would be somebody willing to shoot back.. frylock Jul 2012 #74

It might have been. rrneck Jul 2012 #87

You are aware his AR was jammed when the cops nadinbrzezinski Jul 2012 #90

No, i wasn't aware. Thanks. rrneck Jul 2012 #106

Nope, it would not nadinbrzezinski Jul 2012 #111

So, rrneck Jul 2012 #125

Whoosh nadinbrzezinski Jul 2012 #131

So you got nothing. rrneck Jul 2012 #141

James Holmes was sitting in his car. Eric J in MN Jul 2012 #208

It was a "costume" nadinbrzezinski Jul 2012 #88

You said it! Excellent! likesmountains 52 Jul 2012 #138

everybody should have been trained to shoot in the dark in a theater at a crazy man from every angle samsingh Jul 2012 #36

Was it confirmed that he actually had a genuine tear gas canister? Remmah2 Jul 2012 #21

I dont know. rrneck Jul 2012 #25

I know just general smoke from a bad campfire makes my eyes water. Remmah2 Jul 2012 #41

True that. nt rrneck Jul 2012 #50

Police confirmed it nadinbrzezinski Jul 2012 #61

The police confirmed it. Remmah2 Jul 2012 #75

Well I guess when the Chief said OC nadinbrzezinski Jul 2012 #76

Who said Oates was lying? Remmah2 Jul 2012 #95

The media repeated this word for word nadinbrzezinski Jul 2012 #96

A thread worth following. Remmah2 Jul 2012 #217

this is an opinion samsingh Jul 2012 #43

I applaud your grasp of the obvious. nt rrneck Jul 2012 #48

i applaud you samsingh Jul 2012 #53

Some extraordinarily brave people were there who threw their bodies over others to protect them aikoaiko Jul 2012 #11

The cops said Kevlar nadinbrzezinski Jul 2012 #14

or Kevlar or whatever it was. There are examples of police dying from pistol shots even though... aikoaiko Jul 2012 #42

Yes, when the bullet weasels through weak points nadinbrzezinski Jul 2012 #62

Too bad ballistic armor wasn't as thick as some people. Remmah2 Jul 2012 #64

that argument is like saying bowens43 Jul 2012 #13

Some of these folks have a sort of wild west death wish tularetom Jul 2012 #15

Deleting WilliamPitt Jul 2012 #17

Fort Hood? Remmah2 Jul 2012 #28

this sounds like a fact to me and one that does not support the proliferation of guns to reduce samsingh Jul 2012 #37

References? Remmah2 Jul 2012 #47

whatever that means samsingh Jul 2012 #54

That comment contains nothing but lies. DesMoinesDem Jul 2012 #212

+1 for truth. SlimJimmy Jul 2012 #221

Fort Hood, and not even close to being the truth. The return fire from ther police was on target. SlimJimmy Jul 2012 #220

What kind of body armor? Remmah2 Jul 2012 #19

Oy. WilliamPitt Jul 2012 #23

So much for being interested in facts and reality. nt Remmah2 Jul 2012 #31

yup, so much for that - oh did you read the fact above about what happened at a military samsingh Jul 2012 #38

Actually I did. Remmah2 Jul 2012 #45

The only problem is that it didn't happen that way. The responing police only shot the suspect. SlimJimmy Jul 2012 #227

very relevant graphic for those comparing cars to gun control samsingh Jul 2012 #39

You take it to the Chief nadinbrzezinski Jul 2012 #63

a RIFFLE? Remmah2 Jul 2012 #148

Another proud member of the gun bunny club. nadinbrzezinski Jul 2012 #200

Now, now. We can't have sensible HappyMe Jul 2012 #20

Incredibly stupid argument cthulu2016 Jul 2012 #40

interestingly, when Dick Cheney spoke at a convention, he didn't want guns in the audience samsingh Jul 2012 #51

And rightly so cthulu2016 Jul 2012 #56

it would be interesting logic to allow guns on flights samsingh Jul 2012 #59

Indeed. Chan790 Jul 2012 #170

You have to type all that and i can counter it easily. slampoet Jul 2012 #77

you're pretty passionate about guns never having owned one. samsingh Jul 2012 #243

Good thing everyone in the theater was disarmed (by official policy) 4th law of robotics Jul 2012 #46

If SEAL Team 6 were in the front row fully loaded, hughee99 Jul 2012 #49

+1 slampoet Jul 2012 #79

That utterly false, of course cthulu2016 Jul 2012 #83

I didn't say they wouldn't do anything, hughee99 Jul 2012 #89

It is the first option cthulu2016 Jul 2012 #103

Fair enough, what if they're in the SECOND row (or the last row). hughee99 Jul 2012 #109

Thank you Will. I just had this discussion with my youngest.. Viva_La_Revolution Jul 2012 #52

Freedom is not having to carry arms for protection vanlandingham Jul 2012 #66

+++++ marions ghost Jul 2012 #71

great post krhines Jul 2012 #81

Exactly. moondust Jul 2012 #112

The question is really moot, William. The theater has a policy prohibiting possession of firearms. slackmaster Jul 2012 #67

And you know this does not apply to law enforcement nadinbrzezinski Jul 2012 #73

I'm pretty sure William was thinking of a scenario in which someone who is not well-trained decides slackmaster Jul 2012 #84

And well trained are told to be good witnesses nadinbrzezinski Jul 2012 #94

Obviously there were many factors that would have made a shot opportunity unlikely slackmaster Jul 2012 #97

There you go nadinbrzezinski Jul 2012 #113

Yes, that would be a *very* difficult shot. I've shot reduced light courses before, and played this SlimJimmy Jul 2012 #213

I guess the shooter didn't notice it before entering. hughee99 Jul 2012 #85

How did the LA robbers die? They were shot to death. They were covered head to toe and Edweird Jul 2012 #82

Facts are stubborn things WilliamPitt Jul 2012 #99

Better than dying a coward's death. If I fight I at least have SOME chance. Edweird Jul 2012 #124

Wow. WilliamPitt Jul 2012 #129

Facts are indeed stubborn things. HE WASN'T WEARING BULLETPROOF! Edweird Jul 2012 #132

Sad little person WilliamPitt Jul 2012 #136

I never called the victims cowards - you did. That is typical gun grabber dishonesty. Edweird Jul 2012 #140

That did not app,y to off duty LEO's nadinbrzezinski Jul 2012 #142

My insanity? Self defense is 'insanity'? That's ridiculous. Edweird Jul 2012 #145

What can you expect from somebody NOT AT THE SCENE nadinbrzezinski Jul 2012 #156

Post removed Post removed Jul 2012 #159

Derp. WilliamPitt Jul 2012 #165

You mean Chief Oates lied to the national media nadinbrzezinski Jul 2012 #166

Post removed Post removed Jul 2012 #174

Actuslly let's see if you are big enough, link again nadinbrzezinski Jul 2012 #175

Man, the truth is like kryptonite to gun grabbers. Edweird Jul 2012 #181

You're right nadinbrzezinski Jul 2012 #195

Ok, so substantiate. What brand make and model? Edweird Jul 2012 #197

As I said, links mean nothing to you nadinbrzezinski Jul 2012 #199

LOL. Can't admit you are wrong... dig a little deeper. Edweird Jul 2012 #205

AUTOMATED MESSAGE: Results of your Jury Service NYC_SKP Jul 2012 #246

"Better than dying a coward's death." WilliamPitt Jul 2012 #144

No we are talking about how you claimed his nylon load carrying vest was so impenetrable that Edweird Jul 2012 #149

Derp WilliamPitt Jul 2012 #153

:) Edweird Jul 2012 #161

I guess Chief Oates nadinbrzezinski Jul 2012 #137

Meh, look it up. The truth is out there - if you cared. Edweird Jul 2012 #143

Now I understand why they call it the Gungeon. WilliamPitt Jul 2012 #146

You lied and got caught. Edweird Jul 2012 #151

Derp WilliamPitt Jul 2012 #154

:) Edweird Jul 2012 #157