General Discussion

rustydog

(9,186 posts) Tue Jul 24, 2012, 07:50 PM Jul 2012

Can DU, can this nation have a sensible discussion about gun violence [View all]

minus the clip-art catch phrases: Guns don't kill people, people kill people!
Guns don't kill people, People with guns kill people...

This inane juvenile back and forth is getting us nowhere and people are dying daily in this nation due to gun violence. Hell, a police officer shot and killed his son thinking he was a burglar.
tens of thousands of people are shot in America every year...when does it stop, slow down, reduce a bit?

What, if anything, can we do? How do we have an honest, across-the-political-aisle discussion?

The smarmy smart-ass responses from both sides does not further the chances of a serious overdue discussion on what we need to do about this and it cheapens the lives of those devastated by these senseless shootings. Is the solution a state by state drive to have their laws uniform nation wide?
We'd need an organization just as well-organized and heavily-funded as the gun manufacturer-NRA connection.

This issue needs to be discussed, by both sides, calmly, factually and with the common welfare of the citizens at its heart. Can we have that discussion?

169 replies

= new reply since forum marked as read

Highlight:

Can DU, can this nation have a sensible discussion about gun violence [View all] rustydog Jul 2012 OP

no Skittles Jul 2012 #1

Well, that helps the discussion! Kaleva Jul 2012 #3

alas, it is the truth Skittles Jul 2012 #4

Well, the hardcore on both sides do this. Kaleva Jul 2012 #19

Alas even 100% background checks nadinbrzezinski Jul 2012 #53

True. Any little change is too radical Kaleva Jul 2012 #62

If we cannot agree on 100% checks nadinbrzezinski Jul 2012 #65

Computerized registration? DirkGently Jul 2012 #69

Oh that goes without saying nadinbrzezinski Jul 2012 #71

You don't get rid of 300 million guns soccer1 Jul 2012 #119

So you are talking of what one, two generations? nadinbrzezinski Jul 2012 #121

I don't know how long....the guns here will remain ..... soccer1 Jul 2012 #124

What you are then talking, and we both agree, nadinbrzezinski Jul 2012 #125

People can be loud and express their opinions..... soccer1 Jul 2012 #129

Actually the issue is so bad that nadinbrzezinski Jul 2012 #130

Yes, it is bad.... soccer1 Jul 2012 #131

I can contact my elected officials all I want nadinbrzezinski Jul 2012 #159

Well, this is true..... soccer1 Jul 2012 #163

Nah, it's to the point that next shooting nadinbrzezinski Jul 2012 #164

No legitimate gun owner wants mentally illegible people to have firearms ProgressiveProfessor Jul 2012 #74

But the problem is that we had a few of our fans nadinbrzezinski Jul 2012 #76

I focus on the gun owner ProgressiveProfessor Jul 2012 #82

Who said a thing about giving up your guns? nadinbrzezinski Jul 2012 #85

I am for 100% mental competency checks for firearms ProgressiveProfessor Jul 2012 #92

Damn, we agree nadinbrzezinski Jul 2012 #94

What kind of screening process would you use soccer1 Jul 2012 #152

Why not? soccer1 Jul 2012 #117

Some argue the domino effect. Kaleva Jul 2012 #122

Well, it depends how people believe .... soccer1 Jul 2012 #165

That's about it, isn't it, save for a replay. It will repeat. RKP5637 Jul 2012 #77

Given the average of occurrence yup nadinbrzezinski Jul 2012 #78

+100...It's a public forum...n/t orwell Jul 2012 #7

Oh, good. Then stick with your position on the wedge-issue as the losing politicians did in 1994 AnotherMcIntosh Jul 2012 #55

no, not even on DU any more. CTyankee Jul 2012 #134

Are you referring to the "pro gun" nuts, or the "anti gun" nuts? slutticus Jul 2012 #167

No HockeyMom Jul 2012 #2

Exhibit A n/t SickOfTheOnePct Jul 2012 #10

No. Llewlladdwr Jul 2012 #5

EXHIBIT NUMBER ONE!!! Skittles Jul 2012 #11

Could you elaborate a little? NT Llewlladdwr Jul 2012 #14

Well said n/t SickOfTheOnePct Jul 2012 #12

When your 6 year old child sees bus driver with his face blown away HockeyMom Jul 2012 #16

And you accuse gun owners of SickOfTheOnePct Jul 2012 #18

No disrespect intended HockeyMom... Llewlladdwr Jul 2012 #21

Have your child, or you, witness a gun death up close and personal HockeyMom Jul 2012 #26

Hmmm. Okay then. Llewlladdwr Jul 2012 #27

If you read her post you'll see that it isn't even the death itself SickOfTheOnePct Jul 2012 #29

That man was dead in a bloody horrible mess HockeyMom Jul 2012 #35

I never said you shouldn't have been traumatized SickOfTheOnePct Jul 2012 #38

Have you ever read The Turner Diaries? Brisket Jul 2012 #133

Oh, it's not one death, believe me. There are many out there whose family has suffered such CTyankee Jul 2012 #137

You're basing your stance on emotion SickOfTheOnePct Jul 2012 #28

human emotions, how awful! How dare she? Why, that's unAmerican! Emotions! Nonsense! CTyankee Jul 2012 #138

No problem with opinions based on emotions SickOfTheOnePct Jul 2012 #140

but of course I didn't do that...however... CTyankee Jul 2012 #142

But of course I wasn't talking about you...since... SickOfTheOnePct Jul 2012 #143

wrong. not about hockeymom as much as any other post I have made. wrong equivalency. CTyankee Jul 2012 #144

If your post wasn't about HockeyMom SickOfTheOnePct Jul 2012 #145

i never said it wasn't in direct reference to her. you brought in extraneaous stuff...false CTyankee Jul 2012 #146

And what false equivalencies would those be? SickOfTheOnePct Jul 2012 #147

the false equivalency being that our side is accusing your side of being "emotional." CTyankee Jul 2012 #148

You didn't but HockeyMom certainly did SickOfTheOnePct Jul 2012 #149

welll, I don't think it is ALL fear and hormones. That doesn't go far enough in my book. CTyankee Jul 2012 #151

"lack of belief in the 2nd amendment"? SickOfTheOnePct Jul 2012 #153

if my beliefs are so irrelevant and those of my fellow liberals, then you don't have to worry, do CTyankee Jul 2012 #160

That is what I'm talking about. But the actual number is about 30-thousand a year rustydog Jul 2012 #31

Probably not SickOfTheOnePct Jul 2012 #34

My point exactly, but other nations are armed, have strict gunlaws and their civilian deaths rustydog Jul 2012 #37

Because laws don't prevent senseless acts of violence n/t SickOfTheOnePct Jul 2012 #40

Then why are the numbers lower? rustydog Jul 2012 #43

"knee-jerk defensive statements!" SickOfTheOnePct Jul 2012 #45

Better access to mental health care, less poverty, more labor protections, far less potential TheKentuckian Jul 2012 #81

I agree. This over the top attempt to make sense of senseless violence Mojorabbit Jul 2012 #22

Do you mean side-impact protection mandated for all automobiles? Seatbelt laws? rustydog Jul 2012 #36

Obviously those things aren't enough. Llewlladdwr Jul 2012 #50

So, you agree that we must do something to diminish gun violence? HuckleB Jul 2012 #99

Nice red herring combined with a straw man. HuckleB Jul 2012 #98

No one decides to have an accident, however everyone (almost everyone) who shoots 2on2u Jul 2012 #102

"...a visceral dislike of weapons..." 99Forever Jul 2012 #111

No. one side has no clue what they're talking about, HooptieWagon Jul 2012 #6

I like this post SickOfTheOnePct Jul 2012 #15

It does have a certain beautiful vagueness to it, doesn't it? NT Llewlladdwr Jul 2012 #23

My hands are not clean, and so weight this appropriately but Pholus Jul 2012 #8

No we cannot. Texasgal Jul 2012 #9

I think there ought to be a limit on magazine capacity for one Kaleva Jul 2012 #13

We do already Lurks Often Jul 2012 #24

Not to the extent of what I've suggested Kaleva Jul 2012 #30

State law varies widely, Lurks Often Jul 2012 #39

Make it a federal law Kaleva Jul 2012 #47

That particular weapon in the federal arsenal is most likely weaker now SickOfTheOnePct Jul 2012 #48

No we don"t this guy had a 100-round ammo drum! rustydog Jul 2012 #104

I've never had to use a gun to defend myself Lurks Often Jul 2012 #114

Yes violent crime is down nadinbrzezinski Jul 2012 #127

Don't make assumptions Lurks Often Jul 2012 #150

Sorry, but at this point I will assume such nadinbrzezinski Jul 2012 #158

Probably the one thing the both sides can agree on: Lurks Often Jul 2012 #162

No, the opposing viewpoints are generally too vast Lurks Often Jul 2012 #17

The problem might be rrneck Jul 2012 #20

No, it's like religion, or basic ideas of liberty .... oldhippie Jul 2012 #25

"die hard progressives" have or should have different views on religion? AnotherMcIntosh Jul 2012 #59

From what I have seen around here ...... oldhippie Jul 2012 #66

If anything, progressives are suppose to use their brains and think and not accept others' orthodoxy AnotherMcIntosh Jul 2012 #68

It's called "faith" ..... oldhippie Jul 2012 #72

Your point was quickly proven, wasn't it? Union Scribe Jul 2012 #87

Not going to happen. HappyMe Jul 2012 #32

Yes! If it is not going to be a campaign or election issue. Otherwise no. AnotherMcIntosh Jul 2012 #60

No, because fear makes people irrational... polichick Jul 2012 #33

You're a good example of why we can't have civil discussions Lurks Often Jul 2012 #41

Yep n/t SickOfTheOnePct Jul 2012 #42

Nice try. polichick Jul 2012 #44

Hey, if the shoe fits... n/t SickOfTheOnePct Jul 2012 #46

It's a valid point polichick. Llewlladdwr Jul 2012 #51

Good grief, all you have to do is know a few gun enthusiasts... polichick Jul 2012 #54

I actually know quite a few gun enthusiasts. Even have some in the family. Llewlladdwr Jul 2012 #86

Yes. I fear the skeet. slutticus Jul 2012 #168

Yes, it's very mature to require a stockpile of guns in order to... polichick Jul 2012 #169

Hey, I got some nadinbrzezinski Jul 2012 #58

I am too, but you can't even get Dem "leaders" to go there. polichick Jul 2012 #67

Nope IDemo Jul 2012 #49

No not going to happen, sorry. nt Raine Jul 2012 #52

Gun smuggling is BIG business period Rosa Luxemburg Jul 2012 #56

Try eliminating the demand ProgressiveProfessor Jul 2012 #79

Not until gun worshipers acknowledge two simple, indisputable facts; baldguy Jul 2012 #57

When you lead with the term "gun worshiper", it means you really don't want to discuss things ProgressiveProfessor Jul 2012 #75

You mean like in the UK? Llewlladdwr Jul 2012 #83

And then there's Van der Vlis from the Netherlands. Llewlladdwr Jul 2012 #88

Things like this happen countries with strict gun control once in a decade baldguy Jul 2012 #103

I hope you're just uninformed instead of disingenuous...I suggest you Google Brisket Jul 2012 #136

Is Jamaca part of the industrialised world? And where do you think those guns come from? baldguy Jul 2012 #161

This message was self-deleted by its author Union Scribe Jul 2012 #89

With all due respect, it is the catch phrases, that shuts down any hope of intelligent discussion rustydog Jul 2012 #105

Gun worshipers should also grow up & stop with the histrionics. baldguy Jul 2012 #156

Your chance of 'getting rid' of the guns of Democrats is very very slim. Chance of taking them away Brisket Jul 2012 #135

no....... madrchsod Jul 2012 #61

Yes, but not while people are being emotional. aikoaiko Jul 2012 #63

Yes Yes ellisonz Jul 2012 #132

You want gun control? A sensible way to push for gun and violence control is to push for economic AnotherMcIntosh Jul 2012 #64

^this this THIS! LadyHawkAZ Jul 2012 #70

Damn by this logic I should have commited murder a few times nadinbrzezinski Jul 2012 #73

Is this were you were involved in "a few shootouts"? zappaman Jul 2012 #139

Exactly my friend. The issue isn't just firearms and the violence...it is a myriad issue rustydog Jul 2012 #106

Hopefully yes RobietheCat Jul 2012 #80

No sensible discussion unless, some how, the NRA, disappears completely. demosincebirth Jul 2012 #84

Or returns to it's roots nadinbrzezinski Jul 2012 #90

I agreewith you. Once it was a good organization and I was a proud member rustydog Jul 2012 #107

Probably not. krispos42 Jul 2012 #91

Newp. It's a topic partial to partisans and ideologues Prism Jul 2012 #93

I feel we can if both sides carefully listen to the other side's points and become educated ... spin Jul 2012 #95

"Educate" me on the upside... 99Forever Jul 2012 #115

You suggest what I feel is a fair argument ... spin Jul 2012 #116

Not as long as folks think that.. sendero Jul 2012 #96

In other words, you would not participate in such a discussion. HuckleB Jul 2012 #97

Not when.. sendero Jul 2012 #100

How can we find out if there is a solution to this insane violence issue rustydog Jul 2012 #109

rustydog.. sendero Jul 2012 #166

One thing is for sure: If Du can't this nation can't. NT Democracyinkind Jul 2012 #101

Gun violence discussion. No problem. Remmah2 Jul 2012 #108

I was going to ask this yesterday but decided I didn't need the aggravation. Thank you for posting. uppityperson Jul 2012 #110

Nope. Arugula Latte Jul 2012 #112

NO, that's why we have the Gungeon. n/t shanti Jul 2012 #113

Short answer NO nadinbrzezinski Jul 2012 #118

No. Not right now. MissMarple Jul 2012 #120

I'll just leave this here.. X_Digger Jul 2012 #123

'Sensible' is in the eye of the beholder. randome Jul 2012 #126

You need tear gas, armour, 6000 rounds HockeyMom Jul 2012 #141

Discussion?... -..__... Jul 2012 #128

What we need to be discussing is mental illness - lynne Jul 2012 #154

From my local police blotter... EmeraldCityGrl Jul 2012 #155

I'd like to, very much. NewMoonTherian Jul 2012 #157