General Discussion

TreasonousBastard

(43,049 posts)

237. You, at least, admit it...

Wed Jul 25, 2012, 10:10 AM

Jul 2012

I was never in a firefight during my time in the Viet Nam years, but I went through basic crawling under machine gun fire and the infantry guys had another two months of RVN training in the Louisiana swamps. From the stories I got from guys cycling out no amount of training prepares you for your first firefight. Or your first kill.

Smoke, noise, no clear targets, bullets and rockets whizzing past you, seeing your best bud on the ground with his guts hanging out while shitting in your pants is the way it goes and it takes a bit for the training to kick in and you get on with it. Sometimes, you don't get on with it.

A dark, smoky theater with bullets flying? No way a Range Rambo is gonna take care of business. No one even knows how a hardened combat vet would react. I remember sitting in a class when a car backfired outside and two Vet Nam vets yelled "incoming" and hit the floor. It wasn't funny. Not funny at all.

The only thing I imagine if people were packing in there would be be more carnage if anyone tried to take him down.

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Some thoughts on the "If someone else had a gun" argument re: Aurora [View all] WilliamPitt Jul 2012 OP

Again. If only I had been there with my briefcase nuke. onehandle Jul 2012 #1

I'm still not quite ready to go Whisp Jul 2012 #78

conservatives consistently have the highest number of idiots and they support morons. samsingh Jul 2012 #216

Us libs? UnrepentantLiberal Jul 2012 #209

After 11+ years on Democratic Underground? onehandle Jul 2012 #229

I guess that would make you Dr. Goldentroll. UnrepentantLiberal Jul 2012 #230

+1,000 ... 1StrongBlackMan Jul 2012 #2

I was watching TV WilliamPitt Jul 2012 #3

The tv machine emphasized the body armor nadinbrzezinski Jul 2012 #5

You identify what he was wearing HockeyMom Jul 2012 #16

No, the Chief of Police did nadinbrzezinski Jul 2012 #18

They planted this? HockeyMom Jul 2012 #27

Looks like a "gas can"? Remmah2 Jul 2012 #35

this is just some stuff they found in the car. Nothing there says this is everything he wore librechik Jul 2012 #44

Here is how he was dressed according to the Pragmatic Progressive's FB page Esse Quam Videri Jul 2012 #115

yep--and there wasn't time and too much confusion for a bunch of guys to get together librechik Jul 2012 #117

There were at least four members of the military in the audience Esse Quam Videri Jul 2012 #123

yes--even they were unable to stop the massacre-- librechik Jul 2012 #147

Because it is so reasonable to believe that their military training... Clames Jul 2012 #236

He was actually nadinbrzezinski Jul 2012 #55

One again, he was nadinbrzezinski Jul 2012 #58

when facts are against what gun supporters want to hear, they must be lies samsingh Jul 2012 #29

Willfully ignorance nadinbrzezinski Jul 2012 #57

The myth that if the customers were permitted to have their guns HockeyMom Jul 2012 #65

only because they feel good about their guns and how the others feel uncomfortable means nothing. samsingh Jul 2012 #68

The reality is nadinbrzezinski Jul 2012 #69

you are spot on, nadin. Whisp Jul 2012 #93

+1,000,000,000 x 1,000,000,000 - Well put and definitely coalition_unwilling Jul 2012 #121

Well said loyalsister Jul 2012 #196

You can still be shot to death wearing body armor. It doesn't make you invincible. Edweird Jul 2012 #91

That is why you need something that will defeat it nadinbrzezinski Jul 2012 #92

No, you just need a well placed or lucky shot. Edweird Jul 2012 #98

The weak point was the glass in the gas mask nadinbrzezinski Jul 2012 #102

Actually police (as a whole) aren't all that good shots in general. Edweird Jul 2012 #118

Not according to what the police says he was wearing nadinbrzezinski Jul 2012 #119

He was wearing a Blackhawk ballistic vest. NOT BULLETPROOF. NOT EVEN FULL COVERAGE. Edweird Jul 2012 #134

So you are accusing the Chief of Police nadinbrzezinski Jul 2012 #139

Post removed Post removed Jul 2012 #155

I am repeating what he said nadinbrzezinski Jul 2012 #158

No, I *DON'T* have to live with gun grabber lies. I will point them out. Edweird Jul 2012 #160

Take it to the chief nadinbrzezinski Jul 2012 #163

The 'chief' didn't post here - you did. If I can find the truth in seconds why should you be able Edweird Jul 2012 #167

Once again nadinbrzezinski Jul 2012 #168

Once again, the truth is still the truth and it's YOUR responsibility. Edweird Jul 2012 #171

Alas that's not what he was wearing nadinbrzezinski Jul 2012 #173

LULZ. If you say so. My cite has the company that sold him his gear. Yours has nothing. Edweird Jul 2012 #178

You mean quotes from actual presser nadinbrzezinski Jul 2012 #183

Ok, if you're so sure then show me what he bought and where he bought it. Edweird Jul 2012 #186

Well given the FBI can't nadinbrzezinski Jul 2012 #189

Oh, so they know everything he bought and where, just not that. Yeah right. Edweird Jul 2012 #194

What part of the word CAN't Are you purposely missing? nadinbrzezinski Jul 2012 #198

LOL. You can't show it, because it didn't happen. Look closely at the links. Edweird Jul 2012 #204

"American" is not a language. zappaman Jul 2012 #226

If you are going to sarcastically call someone a "genius", it would help to spell it correctly. zappaman Jul 2012 #222

A list of his purchases was released to the media. The vest listed is not in any way armor. ProgressiveProfessor Jul 2012 #232

Well, that is what Oates said nadinbrzezinski Jul 2012 #234

Its a conflict in data...common in the real world ProgressiveProfessor Jul 2012 #235

Doubt whatever you want. I could care less. Edweird Jul 2012 #135

Help me out... ArtiChoke Jul 2012 #150

I don't speak for anyone but myself. I am calling no one coward. Edweird Jul 2012 #152

You do realize that you get nowhere arguing with the Range Rambos... TreasonousBastard Jul 2012 #241

I know, why my ignore list is growing nadinbrzezinski Jul 2012 #242

OK WilliamPitt Jul 2012 #122

He went in through the fire exit. The fire exits I know of are in the front. Edweird Jul 2012 #128

How about a CCW holder being BLINDED by tear gas? HockeyMom Jul 2012 #245

If the other customers had guns.... dickthegrouch Jul 2012 #244

Because the media cited item that he was purported wearing wasn't armor ProgressiveProfessor Jul 2012 #231

What? Shadowflash Jul 2012 #4

Not to mention Gin Jul 2012 #7

it's hard to shoot back when you're shot in the back samsingh Jul 2012 #30

I go to an indoor shooting range every once in a while tavalon Jul 2012 #6

No, it is not pointless nadinbrzezinski Jul 2012 #12

he would have been moving samsingh Jul 2012 #32

And have you practiced with teargas in your eyes? MiniMe Jul 2012 #191

i gave many reasons why my "skills" or most any one elses tavalon Jul 2012 #240

You, at least, admit it... TreasonousBastard Jul 2012 #237

Exactly! tavalon Jul 2012 #239

Yeah, well If I were there johnnie Jul 2012 #8

Wow. Shadowflash Jul 2012 #24

maybe your guns would have scared him away samsingh Jul 2012 #33

yes--anyone would have done the same-except for everybody who was actually there librechik Jul 2012 #120

You are the winner! Iggo Jul 2012 #224

In the confusion rrneck Jul 2012 #9

And how many civies would have died from that return fire? nadinbrzezinski Jul 2012 #10

You missed the point. rrneck Jul 2012 #22

No, not really nadinbrzezinski Jul 2012 #26

Nobody in that theatre rrneck Jul 2012 #34

No what you presented was a fantasy nadinbrzezinski Jul 2012 #60

Good for you. rrneck Jul 2012 #70

If you were following the case nadinbrzezinski Jul 2012 #72

So catch me up. rrneck Jul 2012 #80

You can pick up a paper nadinbrzezinski Jul 2012 #86

Now you're cooking. rrneck Jul 2012 #100

Nah, I can see you are living in Hollywood land nadinbrzezinski Jul 2012 #105

If you followed this sub thread rrneck Jul 2012 #108

You also said that you were an ex-cop before. Was that when you had the shoot outs? SlimJimmy Jul 2012 #190

"I have actually been involved in a few shootouts." zappaman Jul 2012 #223

if the shooter had thought there would be somebody willing to shoot back.. frylock Jul 2012 #74

It might have been. rrneck Jul 2012 #87

You are aware his AR was jammed when the cops nadinbrzezinski Jul 2012 #90

No, i wasn't aware. Thanks. rrneck Jul 2012 #106

Nope, it would not nadinbrzezinski Jul 2012 #111

So, rrneck Jul 2012 #125

Whoosh nadinbrzezinski Jul 2012 #131

So you got nothing. rrneck Jul 2012 #141

James Holmes was sitting in his car. Eric J in MN Jul 2012 #208

It was a "costume" nadinbrzezinski Jul 2012 #88

You said it! Excellent! likesmountains 52 Jul 2012 #138

everybody should have been trained to shoot in the dark in a theater at a crazy man from every angle samsingh Jul 2012 #36

Was it confirmed that he actually had a genuine tear gas canister? Remmah2 Jul 2012 #21

I dont know. rrneck Jul 2012 #25

I know just general smoke from a bad campfire makes my eyes water. Remmah2 Jul 2012 #41

True that. nt rrneck Jul 2012 #50

Police confirmed it nadinbrzezinski Jul 2012 #61

The police confirmed it. Remmah2 Jul 2012 #75

Well I guess when the Chief said OC nadinbrzezinski Jul 2012 #76

Who said Oates was lying? Remmah2 Jul 2012 #95

The media repeated this word for word nadinbrzezinski Jul 2012 #96

A thread worth following. Remmah2 Jul 2012 #217

this is an opinion samsingh Jul 2012 #43

I applaud your grasp of the obvious. nt rrneck Jul 2012 #48

i applaud you samsingh Jul 2012 #53

Some extraordinarily brave people were there who threw their bodies over others to protect them aikoaiko Jul 2012 #11

The cops said Kevlar nadinbrzezinski Jul 2012 #14

or Kevlar or whatever it was. There are examples of police dying from pistol shots even though... aikoaiko Jul 2012 #42

Yes, when the bullet weasels through weak points nadinbrzezinski Jul 2012 #62

Too bad ballistic armor wasn't as thick as some people. Remmah2 Jul 2012 #64

that argument is like saying bowens43 Jul 2012 #13

Some of these folks have a sort of wild west death wish tularetom Jul 2012 #15

Deleting WilliamPitt Jul 2012 #17

Fort Hood? Remmah2 Jul 2012 #28

this sounds like a fact to me and one that does not support the proliferation of guns to reduce samsingh Jul 2012 #37

References? Remmah2 Jul 2012 #47

whatever that means samsingh Jul 2012 #54

That comment contains nothing but lies. DesMoinesDem Jul 2012 #212

+1 for truth. SlimJimmy Jul 2012 #221

Fort Hood, and not even close to being the truth. The return fire from ther police was on target. SlimJimmy Jul 2012 #220

What kind of body armor? Remmah2 Jul 2012 #19

Oy. WilliamPitt Jul 2012 #23

So much for being interested in facts and reality. nt Remmah2 Jul 2012 #31

yup, so much for that - oh did you read the fact above about what happened at a military samsingh Jul 2012 #38

Actually I did. Remmah2 Jul 2012 #45

The only problem is that it didn't happen that way. The responing police only shot the suspect. SlimJimmy Jul 2012 #227

very relevant graphic for those comparing cars to gun control samsingh Jul 2012 #39

You take it to the Chief nadinbrzezinski Jul 2012 #63

a RIFFLE? Remmah2 Jul 2012 #148

Another proud member of the gun bunny club. nadinbrzezinski Jul 2012 #200

Now, now. We can't have sensible HappyMe Jul 2012 #20

Incredibly stupid argument cthulu2016 Jul 2012 #40

interestingly, when Dick Cheney spoke at a convention, he didn't want guns in the audience samsingh Jul 2012 #51

And rightly so cthulu2016 Jul 2012 #56

it would be interesting logic to allow guns on flights samsingh Jul 2012 #59

Indeed. Chan790 Jul 2012 #170

You have to type all that and i can counter it easily. slampoet Jul 2012 #77

you're pretty passionate about guns never having owned one. samsingh Jul 2012 #243

Good thing everyone in the theater was disarmed (by official policy) 4th law of robotics Jul 2012 #46

If SEAL Team 6 were in the front row fully loaded, hughee99 Jul 2012 #49

+1 slampoet Jul 2012 #79

That utterly false, of course cthulu2016 Jul 2012 #83

I didn't say they wouldn't do anything, hughee99 Jul 2012 #89

It is the first option cthulu2016 Jul 2012 #103

Fair enough, what if they're in the SECOND row (or the last row). hughee99 Jul 2012 #109

Thank you Will. I just had this discussion with my youngest.. Viva_La_Revolution Jul 2012 #52

Freedom is not having to carry arms for protection vanlandingham Jul 2012 #66

+++++ marions ghost Jul 2012 #71

great post krhines Jul 2012 #81

Exactly. moondust Jul 2012 #112

The question is really moot, William. The theater has a policy prohibiting possession of firearms. slackmaster Jul 2012 #67

And you know this does not apply to law enforcement nadinbrzezinski Jul 2012 #73

I'm pretty sure William was thinking of a scenario in which someone who is not well-trained decides slackmaster Jul 2012 #84

And well trained are told to be good witnesses nadinbrzezinski Jul 2012 #94

Obviously there were many factors that would have made a shot opportunity unlikely slackmaster Jul 2012 #97

There you go nadinbrzezinski Jul 2012 #113

Yes, that would be a *very* difficult shot. I've shot reduced light courses before, and played this SlimJimmy Jul 2012 #213

I guess the shooter didn't notice it before entering. hughee99 Jul 2012 #85

How did the LA robbers die? They were shot to death. They were covered head to toe and Edweird Jul 2012 #82

Facts are stubborn things WilliamPitt Jul 2012 #99

Better than dying a coward's death. If I fight I at least have SOME chance. Edweird Jul 2012 #124

Wow. WilliamPitt Jul 2012 #129

Facts are indeed stubborn things. HE WASN'T WEARING BULLETPROOF! Edweird Jul 2012 #132

Sad little person WilliamPitt Jul 2012 #136

I never called the victims cowards - you did. That is typical gun grabber dishonesty. Edweird Jul 2012 #140

That did not app,y to off duty LEO's nadinbrzezinski Jul 2012 #142

My insanity? Self defense is 'insanity'? That's ridiculous. Edweird Jul 2012 #145

What can you expect from somebody NOT AT THE SCENE nadinbrzezinski Jul 2012 #156

Post removed Post removed Jul 2012 #159

Derp. WilliamPitt Jul 2012 #165

You mean Chief Oates lied to the national media nadinbrzezinski Jul 2012 #166

Post removed Post removed Jul 2012 #174

Actuslly let's see if you are big enough, link again nadinbrzezinski Jul 2012 #175

Man, the truth is like kryptonite to gun grabbers. Edweird Jul 2012 #181

You're right nadinbrzezinski Jul 2012 #195

Ok, so substantiate. What brand make and model? Edweird Jul 2012 #197

As I said, links mean nothing to you nadinbrzezinski Jul 2012 #199

LOL. Can't admit you are wrong... dig a little deeper. Edweird Jul 2012 #205

AUTOMATED MESSAGE: Results of your Jury Service NYC_SKP Jul 2012 #246

"Better than dying a coward's death." WilliamPitt Jul 2012 #144

No we are talking about how you claimed his nylon load carrying vest was so impenetrable that Edweird Jul 2012 #149

Derp WilliamPitt Jul 2012 #153

:) Edweird Jul 2012 #161

I guess Chief Oates nadinbrzezinski Jul 2012 #137

Meh, look it up. The truth is out there - if you cared. Edweird Jul 2012 #143

Now I understand why they call it the Gungeon. WilliamPitt Jul 2012 #146

You lied and got caught. Edweird Jul 2012 #151

Derp WilliamPitt Jul 2012 #154

:) Edweird Jul 2012 #157