General Discussion

benEzra

(12,148 posts)

30. The overwhelming majority of gun owners are nonhunters.

Wed Jul 25, 2012, 05:18 PM

Jul 2012

Fewer than 1 in 5 gun owners is a hunter, and that percentage is falling. The primary reasons Americans own guns are defensive purposes, followed closely by recreational target shooting. And a lot of the features some would like to ban are highly desirable on target rifles and HD guns.

For example, vertical handgrips may get in the way on a straight-stocked hunting rifle, which is carried a lot but shot very little, but vertical grips are much preferred on target rifles and on light-recoiling defensive carbines. Adjustable-length stocks allow you to use the same carbine for bench shooting as for checking out the proverbial bump-in-the-night. Flash suppressors make shooting fast smallbores like .223 more pleasant during the day and may keep you from flash-blinding yourself if you have to shoot in low light. None of those things make a rifle more dangerous.

Bayonet lugs don't matter (I own two rifles with bayonet lugs, one of which is 107 years old, and I don't own a bayonet for either) but bayonet lug bans are the height of stupidity, if you think about it.

The thing is, rifles are the least misused of all weapons in this country (<3% of murders) so banning popular rifle features that don't affect rifle misuse is just counterproductive, IMO.

Cannot edit, recommend, or reply in locked discussions

Edit history

Please sign in to view edit histories.

Recommendations

0 members have recommended this reply (displayed in chronological order):

251 replies

= new reply since forum marked as read

Highlight:

How many different weapons can be used for hunting and why is it so critical that certain aspects of [View all] Cary Jul 2012 OP

It's one of the many oddities of this debate el_bryanto Jul 2012 #1

Not true: friendly_iconoclast Jul 2012 #2

Key phrase bongbong Jul 2012 #111

You'll strain something trying to move those goalposts... friendly_iconoclast Jul 2012 #172

LOL bongbong Jul 2012 #197

It is erroneous, only reason NRA supported that was to keep tougher restrictions from passing. Hoyt Jul 2012 #242

Because these bans don't actually help- they're security theater. friendly_iconoclast Jul 2012 #3

You're not answering my question Cary Jul 2012 #4

Irrelevance? Lizzie Poppet Jul 2012 #6

Irrelevance. Total irrelevance. Cary Jul 2012 #8

+1 slampoet Jul 2012 #10

Okay. Let's limit mag capacity to ten rounds. rrneck Jul 2012 #14

That's the "world's fastest reload", and it's being performed in a laboratory setting. DanTex Jul 2012 #25

They like them because they aren't very good mass murderers. rrneck Jul 2012 #27

They like them because with a high-capacity magazine, you don't need to worry about reloading. DanTex Jul 2012 #29

That's what I love about rrneck Jul 2012 #31

Yes, I'm sure that a mentally unbalanced person going on a shooting rampage... DanTex Jul 2012 #37

Like I said. They're bad mass murderers. rrneck Jul 2012 #43

Ahem. Speed reloading is *exactly* what Seng-Hui Cho did at Virginia Tech. friendly_iconoclast Jul 2012 #84

Anybody halfway competant knows when their gun in empty (before pulling the trigger) Travis_0004 Jul 2012 #77

"Serious proof" in a completely informal discussion like this? Okaaaay. Lizzie Poppet Jul 2012 #18

Serious proof as in objective studies that support your assertions Cary Jul 2012 #26

One needn't refer to studies. Lizzie Poppet Jul 2012 #32

There should be hearings on legislation and legislation should be based on the findings Cary Jul 2012 #34

Sorry, but your JD... Lizzie Poppet Jul 2012 #44

I handle guardianship matters Cary Jul 2012 #51

Okay, there's the deal: Lizzie Poppet Jul 2012 #54

Actually whether I say it's 26 or 28 is of no consequnce Cary Jul 2012 #62

If he's an attorney I'm an astronaut. nt rrneck Jul 2012 #65

A-yup. Lizzie Poppet Jul 2012 #67

Translation Cary Jul 2012 #86

You have fled a previous discussion rrneck Jul 2012 #94

I have limited time and you are of limited use to me. Cary Jul 2012 #179

Then go your own way. rrneck Jul 2012 #182

I almost wonder what it is you think you're doing. n/t Cary Jul 2012 #183

That's for me to know and you to find out. rrneck Jul 2012 #186

Your shallow ambitions are all yours, buddy boy...n/t Cary Jul 2012 #188

And yet, here you are. rrneck Jul 2012 #191

If "the record" actually spoke... Cary Jul 2012 #192

First rule of holes... rrneck Jul 2012 #193

Just because you give yourself too much credit, doesn't mean I have to. Cary Jul 2012 #194

Okay. rrneck Jul 2012 #195

Hey, you're entitled to your worthless opinion. n/t Cary Jul 2012 #196

Yes I am. rrneck Jul 2012 #198

Is that right? n/t Cary Jul 2012 #199

The space below this text is where your informed opinion goes. rrneck Jul 2012 #200

You don't say? n/t Cary Jul 2012 #201

Yep. rrneck Jul 2012 #202

Well how do you like that? Cary Jul 2012 #203

Produce an opinion and we'll see. rrneck Jul 2012 #204

Wow! That's amazing. Cary Jul 2012 #206

Missed again. Still nothing. rrneck Jul 2012 #208

Unbelievable. Truly mind boggling. Cary Jul 2012 #210

This thread needs a theme song! rrneck Jul 2012 #219

This thread will be locked soon Cary Jul 2012 #220

It will always be visable. rrneck Jul 2012 #221

Pfeh. Cary Jul 2012 #222

Good. rrneck Jul 2012 #223

The correct spelling is "counselor" Cary Jul 2012 #224

Thanks! rrneck Jul 2012 #225

Pfeh is perfect, unless you're really picky in which case you might say I should use feh. Cary Jul 2012 #231

If you didn't care rrneck Jul 2012 #237

You ARE an amateur in regards to the subjects of this discussion- guns. friendly_iconoclast Jul 2012 #83

I am cognizant enough to know that the screaming gun Mimis Cary Jul 2012 #85

You know, you're not the first attorney here claiming to be The World's Foremost Authority. friendly_iconoclast Jul 2012 #173

It signifies expertise in the law Cary Jul 2012 #176

You might know the law, but based on what you've posted in this thread,... badtoworse Jul 2012 #177

Unfortunately for you... Cary Jul 2012 #178

What hubris! Stick with slip and fall lawyering badtoworse Jul 2012 #184

I run into a lot of childish posts like yours Cary Jul 2012 #187

I'm sure you get called on hubris all the time - nt badtoworse Jul 2012 #190

If a distinguished, board-certified physician presumed to lecture you about law, would you listen? friendly_iconoclast Jul 2012 #213

f_i writes: "I think not..." Cary Jul 2012 #214

Knowing doctors as a group, I don't doubt at least a few of them have already... friendly_iconoclast Jul 2012 #217

ROTFLMAO! Cary Jul 2012 #218

Any law should have a demonstrably positive effect. NewMoonTherian Jul 2012 #57

People shouldn't blow through red lights and mow you down in the crosswalk Cary Jul 2012 #63

Forgive me, because this post may sound contentious and that's not how I intend it. NewMoonTherian Jul 2012 #72

I look at it like this: Lizzie Poppet Jul 2012 #5

So you admit that it doesn't matter if certain characteristics of assault weapons are outlawed Cary Jul 2012 #7

In answer to your last question: X_Digger Jul 2012 #12

"Why endorse a law that has been proven to be ineffective? " Cary Jul 2012 #13

See the last para (and quotes) for your answer.. X_Digger Jul 2012 #15

It's a perfectly good answer, just not the one you want. (nt) Posteritatis Jul 2012 #20

Great post! I'm going to bookmark this for the next time I'm called paranoid about incrementalism badtoworse Jul 2012 #88

Cosmetic features are still important gregoire Jul 2012 #9

Why do you want to have a blood feud over cosmetics? n/t Cary Jul 2012 #11

If someone is so close to the edge... Lizzie Poppet Jul 2012 #22

Because legislation is expensive. rrneck Jul 2012 #16

How much money has been spent on this? How much political capital? Cary Jul 2012 #17

How did the NRA set off this shit storm? hack89 Jul 2012 #23

What's your point? rrneck Jul 2012 #24

How much political capital? Umm.. try losing congress for a decade. X_Digger Jul 2012 #33

Just because Bill Clinton says that's why the House was lost doesn't mean it's true. Cary Jul 2012 #36

I lived in rural Virginia during that time, I remember the shitstorm it caused. X_Digger Jul 2012 #41

A bit of history for you.. virginia mountainman Jul 2012 #19

My answer is very simple - Laws that restrict peoples' choices have to pull their weight slackmaster Jul 2012 #21

I have practiced law for 28 years now. Cary Jul 2012 #28

My answer is that there is no reason TO ban them slackmaster Jul 2012 #47

Your nonanswers are the answers I expected. Cary Jul 2012 #49

It interfered with a lot of things. rrneck Jul 2012 #56

I am inflexible and obstinate. NewMoonTherian Jul 2012 #60

I've met DU gun reactionaries for the first time yesterday Cary Jul 2012 #64

I want to work toward positive change, and I do. NewMoonTherian Jul 2012 #74

The proof is in the pudding Cary Jul 2012 #87

I've been saying for a long time... NewMoonTherian Jul 2012 #106

Explain to me how you treat a violent psychopath Cary Jul 2012 #109

It's not possible to prevent every violent act. NewMoonTherian Jul 2012 #122

Translation Cary Jul 2012 #135

I don't know anything about the treatment of violent psychopaths. NewMoonTherian Jul 2012 #140

It's not your run of the mill mentally ill person who goes out and shoots up a crowded theater Cary Jul 2012 #141

"Take preemptive action of some sort"??? MicaelS Jul 2012 #143

That makes sense. Cary Jul 2012 #145

Coming from lawyer, that's a compliment. MicaelS Jul 2012 #147

Oh good! Cary Jul 2012 #149

Well, I'm glad we understand each other, to an extent. NewMoonTherian Jul 2012 #165

Not fed up with you personally and I am certainly not demanding that you Cary Jul 2012 #168

It's your judgement that taking away my option to get a rifle with a folding stock would not be a... slackmaster Jul 2012 #66

In other words Aerows Jul 2012 #50

Free clue.. paint them camo.. X_Digger Jul 2012 #53

You need 100 round clips in them, too Aerows Jul 2012 #70

No silly, you hunt with 5 round magazines (or whatever your state allows.) X_Digger Jul 2012 #75

And you think your argument isn't silly? Aerows Jul 2012 #78

Feel free to set that goalpost down.. X_Digger Jul 2012 #81

Let's play Nuclear Straw Man. slackmaster Jul 2012 #68

I desperately need a 100 round clip to hunt Aerows Jul 2012 #69

You're trying to change the subject, your tone is hostile and rude slackmaster Jul 2012 #73

It's hostile and rude to YOU Aerows Jul 2012 #79

The topic of this thread is characteristics of firearms, not of ammunition magazines slackmaster Jul 2012 #91

Because we already have bad laws on the books we should go ahead and add a few more? 4th law of robotics Jul 2012 #90

The overwhelming majority of gun owners are nonhunters. benEzra Jul 2012 #30

Reasonable voices should prevail. cbrer Jul 2012 #35

That's one factor Reasonable_Argument Jul 2012 #38

Is it more accurate cbrer Jul 2012 #58

I'm sure this is true. Cary Jul 2012 #40

There are two intentionally direct questions rrneck Jul 2012 #55

Difficult cbrer Jul 2012 #59

A couple that can and have been used hobbit709 Jul 2012 #39

True. Cary Jul 2012 #42

I've seen a tightly rolled up newspaper shred someone's face. hobbit709 Jul 2012 #46

It is my experience that shrill DU voices Cary Jul 2012 #52

Shrill DU voices? slackmaster Jul 2012 #95

You don't have to like my judgment Cary Jul 2012 #98

I answered your direct question TWICE, and you ignored my answer because you don't like it. slackmaster Jul 2012 #100

I didn't say I didn't like your answer. Those are your words, not mine. Cary Jul 2012 #103

And at this point I'm lumping you with all other gun reactionaries Cary Jul 2012 #104

My only reply is that no weapons should be used for hunting. RebelOne Jul 2012 #45

When the state wants to ban, limit, or restrict any choice, liberty, or freedom, petronius Jul 2012 #48

So, should we outright ban hunting to eliminate them all? flvegan Jul 2012 #61

The banned features have legitimate uses. ManiacJoe Jul 2012 #71

*If* the purpose of our guns is to authentically protect freedom . . . patrice Jul 2012 #76

There are so many cooked up arguments against assault weapon bans Aerows Jul 2012 #80

Oh, it's the little things. krispos42 Jul 2012 #82

That's a good answer Krispos42 Cary Jul 2012 #115

Certainly we can. :-) n/t krispos42 Jul 2012 #125

Perhaps you could instead provide reasons for them to be banned 4th law of robotics Jul 2012 #89

It creates the illusion that the problem is being addressed badtoworse Jul 2012 #92

I agree 100% 4th law of robotics Jul 2012 #93

Versus what? Cary Jul 2012 #101

My post was clear about how the problem should be addressed badtoworse Jul 2012 #116

How do you know what I am happy or unhappy about? Cary Jul 2012 #119

I'm reading between the lines of your posts in this thread. badtoworse Jul 2012 #121

I haven't advocated any ban Cary Jul 2012 #99

You haven't asked for a ban 4th law of robotics Jul 2012 #102

I said we should have a dialogue and that the gun reactionaries who are stifling that dialogue Cary Jul 2012 #107

Ok, but shouldn't any dialogue about potentially banning something 4th law of robotics Jul 2012 #108

I don't buy that "conservative" limited government meme Cary Jul 2012 #112

Saying proponents of a ban should provide evidence for why such a ban 4th law of robotics Jul 2012 #114

Hahahahaha Cary Jul 2012 #117

Yes, if you're pushing for a ban 4th law of robotics Jul 2012 #124

ROTFLMAO Cary Jul 2012 #130

Because the attempted ban is on guns that look "bad" or "evil" to some people. MicaelS Jul 2012 #96

Not to nitpick, but.. Marinedem Jul 2012 #97

You need a 100 round magazine if you want to shoot at bees. n/t Ian David Jul 2012 #105

If these features of assault weapons are merely "cosmetic," why do gun nuts insist on having them? Erose999 Jul 2012 #110

Why are you asking me? Cary Jul 2012 #113

Several reasons... MicaelS Jul 2012 #118

So 100 round magazines in civilian hands are absolutely necessary because they "look cool". And this Erose999 Jul 2012 #120

"Absolutely necessary"??? Nope.... MicaelS Jul 2012 #123

Consider that just one of that "1%" shot about 70 people, killing at least 12 of them last week. And Erose999 Jul 2012 #128

for me living in a ban state... belcffub Jul 2012 #129

The cosmetic features serve legitimate uses. ManiacJoe Jul 2012 #132

What the AWB did. Kaleva Jul 2012 #126

Maybe because arguing about minutia is an effective way of derailing the conversation? drm604 Jul 2012 #127

Lack of knowldege of the minutia made, IMO, the AWB an ineffective law. Kaleva Jul 2012 #131

I thought that was about Teflon coated bullets. n/t Cary Jul 2012 #134

It was about rounds that could penetrate ballistic vests. Kaleva Jul 2012 #137

I am still certain that the "cop killer bullet" issue was about Teflon coated bullets. Cary Jul 2012 #138

A lot of bills don't go anywhere becasue people take the time and look at the details of it. Kaleva Jul 2012 #142

Kaleva, I don't have a point of view either way. Cary Jul 2012 #146

Why do you think I'm a gungeoneer? Kaleva Jul 2012 #171

Any centerfire rifle ammuntion will penetrate soft body armor MicaelS Jul 2012 #144

This is where the technical knowledge comes in handy. ManiacJoe Jul 2012 #152

Your "technical knowledge" is nothing more than a cheap tactic you use to change the subject Cary Jul 2012 #155

You seem to have a reading comprehension problem. ManiacJoe Jul 2012 #156

I do have a will to learn. Cary Jul 2012 #159

You show potential. ManiacJoe Jul 2012 #166

I think if you weed out the b.s. Cary Jul 2012 #133

I'm trying to figure out which side you're referring to with that term. drm604 Jul 2012 #169

What is a "gun reactionary"? obamanut2012 Jul 2012 #175

Like damned near everything surrounding the process we've chosen to follow in this debate, Egalitarian Thug Jul 2012 #136

There's a process in this debate? Cary Jul 2012 #139

Sure there is. Both sides stake out the most absurd positions they can find and Egalitarian Thug Jul 2012 #174

Listen, we, as True Americans�, have a God given 2nd Amendment right to carry as much military grade leeroysphitz Jul 2012 #148

I deny your premise. It is the anti-gun forces who are having an emotional fit over mags >10 rounds aikoaiko Jul 2012 #150

You deny what premise? Cary Jul 2012 #151

Your premise is that pro-rkba types are emotionally resisting the AWB.You called it emotional noise. aikoaiko Jul 2012 #157

I'm not saying that "pro-rkba types" are emotionally resisting the AWB Cary Jul 2012 #161

really? aikoaiko Jul 2012 #164

Really Cary Jul 2012 #167

We prefer to use shoulder-fired stinger missiles for hunting. Zorra Jul 2012 #153

Your initial premise is wrong. randome Jul 2012 #154

That was supposed to just be an example. Cary Jul 2012 #163

If a rife has the letters AR, AK, HK, SKS, FAL or TECH in its gun nut code name - ban 'em jpak Jul 2012 #158

This is an example of brilliant thinking that led to the Olympic PCR during the AWB ban aikoaiko Jul 2012 #160

Ban that piece of shit too jpak Jul 2012 #162

great thread! fascisthunter Jul 2012 #170

Number of times hunting is mentioned in the 2nd amendment: 0 4th law of robotics Jul 2012 #180

I think I have seen you on threads other than gun threads but I Cary Jul 2012 #181

Oh I hope I pass your ideological purity test Mr. McCarthy 4th law of robotics Jul 2012 #185

What ideological purity test would that be? Cary Jul 2012 #189

"see if any of you are really liberals" hack89 Jul 2012 #205

You aren't liberal, are you? n/t Cary Jul 2012 #207

Very much so - I support abortion rights, marriage equality, unions and single payer health care. hack89 Jul 2012 #209

Of course you're just the right person to put me in my place. Cary Jul 2012 #211

No - I commonly answer rudeness with rudeness. One of my many human failings. nt hack89 Jul 2012 #226

It was a sincere question. Cary Jul 2012 #228

Just perusing more of Meta Cary Jul 2012 #215

"Problem" is a relative term. I have to give a shit what you think first, right? nt hack89 Jul 2012 #227

Generally when I encounter as much whining as I have from you, Cary Jul 2012 #229

So what's the problem you can't discuss your own OP? rrneck Jul 2012 #230

It is my experience that a normal person understands when they're being mocked Cary Jul 2012 #233

What have you won? nt rrneck Jul 2012 #238

I haven't claimed to have won anything buddy boy. Cary Jul 2012 #240

You can't make any claim rrneck Jul 2012 #244

You can fabricate any claim that you want to. Cary Jul 2012 #247

See post #24. nt rrneck Jul 2012 #248

So dreck, you're claiming I have some kind of duty to respond to you? Cary Jul 2012 #249

I think you've overestimated me. nt rrneck Jul 2012 #250

I have no reason to complain hack89 Jul 2012 #232

Good grief. Cary Jul 2012 #234

Yet you keep wanting to engage with me. Why don't you simply stop typing? nt hack89 Jul 2012 #235

I told you already. Cary Jul 2012 #236

Procrastination is one of my talents too. hack89 Jul 2012 #239

I figure it's a cost of doing business. Cary Jul 2012 #241

Well if you want to actually eat what you kill, Assault rifles shouldn't be used LynneSin Jul 2012 #212

why? belcffub Jul 2012 #216

What? Edweird Jul 2012 #245

A good hunter will usually need only one shot and will match the round to the game badtoworse Jul 2012 #246

What does hunting have to do with anything? Edweird Jul 2012 #243

Locking SunsetDreams Jul 2012 #251