General Discussion

George II

(67,782 posts)

79. I'm confused.....

Mon Feb 12, 2018, 03:40 PM

Feb 2018

On the one hand you say "The reason that new candidates, new Democrats are challenging incumbent Democrats is that Democrats have been losing too many seats, the presidency, state houses and governorships, right down to the local contests."

If they're "incumbent" then they obviously have NOT lost their seats! So why are you advocating "new Democrats" challenging incumbent Democrats if what you're concerned about is losing seats? The incumbents have clearly demonstrated that they are / were capable of winning and retaining their seats.

Shouldn't the emphasis be on running against republican incumbents first? Remember, Democrats in office won their elections, and where republicans are in office the Democrat lost. THOSE are the seats we should be targetting.

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Progressives storm Democratic primaries [View all] DonViejo Feb 2018 OP

Are the incumbents bad Democrats, or are the so-called "progressives" just taking advantage Hoyt Feb 2018 #1

So called? zipplewrath Feb 2018 #3

It cost us in November. Not saying it's wrong at all, but it cost us. I hope that doesn't happen Hoyt Feb 2018 #5

It will probably happen again. Some want to cause democrats to lose. Eliot Rosewater Feb 2018 #53

Yep blow up the system is what they seem to be about. redstatebluegirl Feb 2018 #58

I hear/read you, and totally agree. Hoyt Feb 2018 #59

That is what they do. Demsrule86 Feb 2018 #76

Yes, but we can help enlighten those who are mislead into Hortensis Feb 2018 #92

What cost us was the failure of the primary system to select the most electable candidate. lagomorph777 Feb 2018 #90

Who is us? oasis Feb 2018 #96

Well, one of the other candidates main platform was reneging on trade agreements. Hoyt Feb 2018 #97

The other candidate didnt get the votes, mostly because of the poor performance of his asshat emulatorloo Feb 2018 #108

Nope, the most electable candidate was nominated. GOP held off on Sanders intentionally stevenleser Feb 2018 #120

lol, when more people vote for a candidate, it's called a win. R B Garr Feb 2018 #121

Those maths again.... ehrnst Feb 2018 #147

Yes, and Democrats voting for the Democrat is R B Garr Feb 2018 #160

Well, President Clinton will be relieved to hear that. lagomorph777 Feb 2018 #149

Well, I suppose HRC could have gone in and single handedly undone voter suppression ehrnst Feb 2018 #154

You were clearly implying that Bernie was cheated by R B Garr Feb 2018 #157

What candidates are you referring to? ehrnst Feb 2018 #148

Thumbs on the scale? Really????? George II Feb 2018 #164

Actual voters showed who was the most electable candidate. What polls are you talking about? ehrnst Feb 2018 #169

Lagomorph, Judicial Watch alone had intensive scandals Hortensis Feb 2018 #183

Oh, and progressives were forced to choose between establishment Dems and new blood/ideas Weed Man Feb 2018 #132

Hillary ran on the most progressive platform the Dems ever had. Yes, she is progressive. ehrnst Feb 2018 #150

+1 Go Vols Feb 2018 #193

Nobody is questioning the right of people to challenge incumbents in a primary Proud Liberal Dem Feb 2018 #6

Ask all 4 zipplewrath Feb 2018 #9

That is weird Proud Liberal Dem Feb 2018 #18

As of February 5, he is. ehrnst Feb 2018 #152

I'm putting my money on the "Restaurant Owner and Felon"... brooklynite Feb 2018 #107

Cardin filed on February 5... ehrnst Feb 2018 #151

Thanks! Sophia4 Feb 2018 #7

So called for sure...I a sick of this shit...in a year when we have nothing these folks waste money Demsrule86 Feb 2018 #75

And if they win the primary? zipplewrath Feb 2018 #78

I always vote for the Democrat...but an incumbent has an advantage thus if they win...the seat could Demsrule86 Feb 2018 #84

Their being awfully quite about it zipplewrath Feb 2018 #87

Supposedly Move On did field a candidate. They said they did. Demsrule86 Feb 2018 #99

In what context zipplewrath Feb 2018 #109

Tim Ryan comes from a district that went for Trump but not in a huge way but he feels the need to Demsrule86 Feb 2018 #113

So when did the "smoke filled room" come back? ehrnst Feb 2018 #168

It hasn't zipplewrath Feb 2018 #170

On the part of whom? Can you name examples? ehrnst Feb 2018 #171

I'm talking about this thread zipplewrath Feb 2018 #172

But is it actually happening IRL? ehrnst Feb 2018 #173

Post removed Post removed Feb 2018 #175

Which primaries? ehrnst Feb 2018 #179

хорошего дня George II Feb 2018 #191

They're probably just running. Orsino Feb 2018 #27

Lipinski, for one, is a VERY bad Democrat. Jim Lane Feb 2018 #66

OK, there's one. Hoyt Feb 2018 #67

I think that seat will be OK as the GOP running but should he win ...it is one vote less for taking Demsrule86 Feb 2018 #77

"These folks cost us in 16...." -- such hypocrisy. Jim Lane Feb 2018 #93

That is not my opinion. My opinion is that the so called progressives should Demsrule86 Feb 2018 #98

Really, establishment? GulfCoast66 Feb 2018 #103

There will always be some sore losers who defect in the general if their candidate lost the primary. Jim Lane Feb 2018 #104

Could not disagree more. GulfCoast66 Feb 2018 #111

Yet you are, apparently, agreeing with what I actually wrote. Jim Lane Feb 2018 #112

There are more actual RW'ers at that JPR website than there are here, so R B Garr Feb 2018 #122

In Lipinski's case, the Democratic establishment is squarely on the side of the opponent. ieoeja2 Feb 2018 #212

hindsight being 20/20 and all BoneyardDem Feb 2018 #159

With the exception of outliers like conservative Dem Dan Lipinski... brooklynite Feb 2018 #105

Hoyt saidsimplesimon Feb 2018 #129

Dude, we need new blood Weed Man Feb 2018 #131

I suggest we win in 2018 before having "new blood" and the incumbent bloody each Hoyt Feb 2018 #133

Fine, we can win 2018, but with NEW blood. Weed Man Feb 2018 #142

Spare me the "progressive" lecture too. Hoyt Feb 2018 #158

That's the same old song and dance we got all through 2016 that caused division and bled off .... BoneyardDem Feb 2018 #162

Democrats have produced "nothing" in your "lifetime?" ehrnst Feb 2018 #184

That was almost all Obama Egnever Feb 2018 #192

Defending Planned Parenthood? CHIP? IDEA? ehrnst Feb 2018 #194

If you're "a young blood", how can you be "tired of establishment Democrats"? George II Feb 2018 #187

Good question. ehrnst Feb 2018 #188

Want some cheese with that whine? GulfCoast66 Feb 2018 #207

FMLA, IDEA... the list goes on. ehrnst Feb 2018 #209

You mean like this? ehrnst Feb 2018 #217

Poorly written article looking to create dividsion. NCTraveler Feb 2018 #2

Any Democrat in Congress who voted for the Iraq War should be voted out. Sophia4 Feb 2018 #8

I don't think anyone in congress who voted against a pathway to citizenship should be in office. NCTraveler Feb 2018 #11

Agreed about voting against a path to citizenship! Sophia4 Feb 2018 #17

As a matter of fact we've gained seats in both the House and Senate, and just barely... George II Feb 2018 #73

We should quit spreading this kind of pernicious misinformation R B Garr Feb 2018 #116

I am a Democrat -- lifelong. I belong to a Democratic Club, and have served as Sophia4 Feb 2018 #163

How absurd that you pretend you hurt my feelings. R B Garr Feb 2018 #166

It wasn't just Hillary who lost. Sophia4 Feb 2018 #177

Bernie also lost. Since you are so invested in digging up who lost, R B Garr Feb 2018 #180

Reminds me of someone named Sabrina. ehrnst Feb 2018 #199

JD R B Garr Feb 2018 #204

And gerrymandering. You left that little thing out. ehrnst Feb 2018 #198

I agree lunamagica Feb 2018 #56

ahhh, I've heard this argument before BoneyardDem Feb 2018 #14

Good question mcar Feb 2018 #19

Lets add to that. NCTraveler Feb 2018 #22

The reason that new candidates, new Democrats are challenging incumbent Democrats Sophia4 Feb 2018 #24

So why aren't they going after red seats instead? Blue_Tires Feb 2018 #25

Good question. BoneyardDem Feb 2018 #26

I'm technically not allowed to mention this, but Blue_Tires Feb 2018 #29

I'd technically say you are on target BoneyardDem Feb 2018 #31

My guess is you are on to something mcar Feb 2018 #32

Word. NurseJackie Feb 2018 #34

Did most elected Democrats bow to kiss Hillary's ring? Jim Lane Feb 2018 #45

Hillary had the credentials, the history and never campaigned against a Democratic incumbent. LuvLoogie Feb 2018 #69

Hillary never required it not did her supporters. Demsrule86 Feb 2018 #115

Post removed Post removed Feb 2018 #124

You really should try for consistency. It was a "political process" that saw R B Garr Feb 2018 #125

Thank you for proving my point! (n/t) Jim Lane Feb 2018 #127

And you as well. It's clear what your posts are really advocating, so R B Garr Feb 2018 #128

Indeed. (nt) ehrnst Feb 2018 #140

Who mentioned superdelegates? George II Feb 2018 #167

Yup lunamagica Feb 2018 #57

Nailed it... SidDithers Feb 2018 #88

Yep. (nt) ehrnst Feb 2018 #141

Nailed it. Thats exactly what this is about. nt R B Garr Feb 2018 #144

It's a very Sarandonesque way of thinking. Maddening, huh? NurseJackie Feb 2018 #35

Uhhhhhhhhhh yep Eliot Rosewater Feb 2018 #36

Uh, maybe they don't live in those districts? Jim Lane Feb 2018 #51

And once again you fail to grasp how politics works... Blue_Tires Feb 2018 #190

Blue_Tires, meet Blue_Tires Jim Lane Feb 2018 #95

The difference here is Tulsi is in the Bernie club so she's safe Blue_Tires Feb 2018 #189

Seems like an odd question Egnever Feb 2018 #130

I just don't get what's so sexy about cannibalization... Blue_Tires Feb 2018 #196

I don't understand what you are saying Egnever Feb 2018 #202

no, not every time... Blue_Tires Feb 2018 #206

People run where they live. Sophia4 Feb 2018 #195

Sometimes... Not always. Blue_Tires Feb 2018 #197

"Losing an election is a message from the electorate that the voters prefer the opposing candidate" BoneyardDem Feb 2018 #28

Well said! mcar Feb 2018 #33

Who in the hell said THAT? Eliot Rosewater Feb 2018 #37

WELL...... BoneyardDem Feb 2018 #40

sigh Eliot Rosewater Feb 2018 #41

Again, the candidate who chooses to run is responsible for creating a campaign Sophia4 Feb 2018 #42

your writings tend to go on a bit. BoneyardDem Feb 2018 #63

Exactly, and the actions are the exact opposite of R B Garr Feb 2018 #153

for a second there, I thought I was the only one seeing it that way. Thanks :) BoneyardDem Feb 2018 #155

I would argue that Comey should be listed at the top of that list. StevieM Feb 2018 #61

What you wrote isnt logical. If they are incumbent that means they won their seats emulatorloo Feb 2018 #38

Incumbents won their own seats, but they did not create an environment in which Sophia4 Feb 2018 #47

Thanks. Sophia4 Feb 2018 #48

you know what happened in Alabama? BoneyardDem Feb 2018 #50

I know what happened in Alabama. Sophia4 Feb 2018 #62

so why state it can be repeated everywhere...so much rubbish n/t BoneyardDem Feb 2018 #65

My view is that we need to focus on the future. Sophia4 Feb 2018 #72

focus on the future by trying to reinvent the past mistakes of the purists BoneyardDem Feb 2018 #86

Yes, let's quit advocating for third party candidates who can't win elections. R B Garr Feb 2018 #213

Extremists in primaries are part of why the system breaks down. ehrnst Feb 2018 #143

not sure I can count all the ways in which I disagree with your post...but here is another one BoneyardDem Feb 2018 #49

I stand by my statement. Sophia4 Feb 2018 #55

your arguments are not convincing, they are the same words I heard all through the Primaries BoneyardDem Feb 2018 #60

So, with all of that, do you have any suggestions on how to accomplish any of that? George II Feb 2018 #74

Focus on the future, on how we Democrats are the Party that can integrate Sophia4 Feb 2018 #83

That's all well and good, but in this discussion you also said.... George II Feb 2018 #85

I'm confused..... George II Feb 2018 #79

I hope that I have answered your questions. Sophia4 Feb 2018 #161

So you think that Obama should have been primaried? Really? ehrnst Feb 2018 #182

"It is up to the winner to reach out to the losers to reunite the Party after a primary." ehrnst Feb 2018 #156

If "purity" cuts off one's nose to spite one's face, it should be called out as such. ehrnst Feb 2018 #181

"Losing an election is a message from the electorate lapucelle Feb 2018 #205

Yes. It was. I am in California, and my vote simply did not count. Sophia4 Feb 2018 #222

The Bernie or Bust movement went way beyond California R B Garr Feb 2018 #225

Shunning divisiveness is commendable. Sophia4 Feb 2018 #227

Ah yet more self-serving revisionist history couched in R B Garr Feb 2018 #229

I am reminded of one of my daughters who didn't like one of her classmates. Sophia4 Feb 2018 #232

Your stories about three-year-olds and little girls are as R B Garr Feb 2018 #234

I live in California. When Democrats dare to stand up for the right of Californians Sophia4 Feb 2018 #235

More tortuous denials. Completely self-serving. You should just admit R B Garr Feb 2018 #237

You can vote for who you want but a vote for Hillary in the GE is the price for DU membership seaglass Feb 2018 #231

You'll be happy to hear about this challenge - "new blood" vs a 28 year capitol hill veteran: ehrnst Feb 2018 #218

Well he left to become the Secretary of State...but Kerry voted for the Iraq war...as did most Demsrule86 Feb 2018 #80

Any politician in office who voted against the Brady Bull shoiuld be voted out. lapucelle Feb 2018 #208

Tell us; did you vote to re-elect President Obama in 2012? brooklynite Feb 2018 #224

Yes. Once we were in, we almost had to stay. The very reason I say that anyone Sophia4 Feb 2018 #226

In light of today's tragic and preventable events in FL, lapucelle Feb 2018 #243

I agree. Sophia4 Feb 2018 #244

govtrack has Capuano rated in the middle of the Democrats FarCenter Feb 2018 #15

Solid Progressive. NCTraveler Feb 2018 #23

Sorry, what's the "truth to powoer crowd?" Sounds attractive. nt LAS14 Feb 2018 #46

Bad strategy mcar Feb 2018 #4

They want to run against Republicans, but they have to run against certain Democrats Sophia4 Feb 2018 #10

Not in a Republican district, they don't mcar Feb 2018 #16

That's because they're stupid. Squinch Feb 2018 #12

Primaries are being "stormed" by mostly long shots? Hortensis Feb 2018 #13

Extreme longshots Gothmog Feb 2018 #230

:) Extreme. Well, running's fine and good, and Hortensis Feb 2018 #233

We Need to Stop the Infighting BlueDog22 Feb 2018 #20

How to stop the infighting: Everyone who disagrees with me stands down. Jim Lane Feb 2018 #106

Exactly what KPD said to SDP in 1933. I wonder how much they thought of that on their way to stevenleser Feb 2018 #123

I believe you've misinterpreted my post. Jim Lane Feb 2018 #126

It will be interesting to look back, following the primaries MineralMan Feb 2018 #21

I am personally working and contributing to DEMOCRATS... pbmus Feb 2018 #30

Any group who does this sort of thing...including Our revolution, Democracy for American and/or Demsrule86 Feb 2018 #81

I am for progressives running anywhere mvd Feb 2018 #39

It makes sense to do this in the "country's bluest districts" aikoaiko Feb 2018 #43

I will never support a candidate backed by Justice Democrats, Brand New Congress or Our Revolution seaglass Feb 2018 #44

Weird that, two groups want to UNSEAT democrats. Not just one anymore, two. Eliot Rosewater Feb 2018 #52

Squabbling BlueDog22 Feb 2018 #71

Great to hear. Nothing wrong with competing ideas being debated in public. jalan48 Feb 2018 #54

Bad to hear...could cost us the house...we have limited resources which need to be spent unseating Demsrule86 Feb 2018 #82

I believe in Democracy. This is how it works. jalan48 Feb 2018 #100

We won't have a Democracy if we don't start winning elections. Demsrule86 Feb 2018 #114

Hitting the snooze button is no longer an option-time to get involved! jalan48 Feb 2018 #117

Nope, Democracy isn't an excuse to turn off your brain. Democracy includes coalition building stevenleser Feb 2018 #119

Let's have robust primaries. It will help us to better gage what the voters want. As opposed to top jalan48 Feb 2018 #139

Robust primaries?? Does that mean multiple candidates R B Garr Feb 2018 #174

Hopefully it's about issues, not name calling. jalan48 Feb 2018 #178

At what point in my life did anyone but me vote? Hortensis Feb 2018 #228

Short of making all the primaries closed, what's the solution? Only one candidate? jalan48 Feb 2018 #238

The choice isn't and never was one or none, black or white. Hortensis Feb 2018 #239

Who decides who is honest and worthy? jalan48 Feb 2018 #240

You were supposed to say YES, Hortensis Feb 2018 #241

Having a number of Democrats running in a primary doesn't bother me at all. jalan48 Feb 2018 #242

Even if every one of these candidates wins it will not get them the change they say they want. StevieM Feb 2018 #64

Crowley has already switched on health care. Jim Lane Feb 2018 #68

Changing the mind of a Democrat from Queens won't get single payer. StevieM Feb 2018 #70

You completely miss the point. Changing the mind of ANY one Democrat won't get it. Jim Lane Feb 2018 #89

I guess the question is whether it is a good idea to run single-payer supporting candidates StevieM Feb 2018 #94

I for one am glad to see this kurtcagle Feb 2018 #91

Good, isn't that what everyone told us to do? vi5 Feb 2018 #101

Have you notice ...Democrats have no power in Washington...timing is everything. Demsrule86 Feb 2018 #137

at what juncture in the last 30 years of politics would you have made a different argument, really? JCanete Feb 2018 #176

Anytime...I can 't remember a time we had nothing...maybe the first two years in the Reagan Demsrule86 Feb 2018 #186

Nailed it Egnever Feb 2018 #203

Interesting GaryCnf Feb 2018 #102

Why has 'progressive' become a bad word? left-of-center2012 Feb 2018 #110

Probably because they enabled the seating of George W. Bush and Donald Trump nt stevenleser Feb 2018 #118

+1000 Demsrule86 Feb 2018 #136

Some threads are worth saidsimplesimon Feb 2018 #134

Progressive is a great word and political ideology...but when some confuse progressive with Demsrule86 Feb 2018 #135

Bingo. (NT) ehrnst Feb 2018 #146

Love the Alinksy quote. Demsrule86 Feb 2018 #211

Yeah, like Democrats Cha Feb 2018 #201

Exactly, the "Young Turks" wing (not Democrats any of them) costs us elections. We pay a heavy Demsrule86 Feb 2018 #210

Imo, serious judgement and behavior issues among a minority. Hortensis Feb 2018 #165

I honestly find the responses in this thread shocking Egnever Feb 2018 #138

+1 Nevernose Feb 2018 #185

Who is suggesting that? ehrnst Feb 2018 #215

Who are the candidates running for Mayor in Burlington Vermont this year? George II Feb 2018 #220

Maybe if a person doesnt like the outcome of a given primary, maybe that is the problem here Eliot Rosewater Feb 2018 #223

When have primaries ever NOT determined what a majority of citizens want? George II Feb 2018 #216

When they have been supplanted by caucuses.... ehrnst Feb 2018 #219

Precisely - caucuses result in bullying, intimidation, and "mob rule". Primaries are the way to go.. George II Feb 2018 #221

It sounds like you feel like you're being oppressed. ehrnst Feb 2018 #214

There is evidently a Texas primary contest that fits this thread Gothmog Feb 2018 #145

Oh? Good of them to join us. FINALLY. JNelson6563 Feb 2018 #200

A former business associate of my wife reached out about her campaign for a House seat... brooklynite Feb 2018 #236