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In reply to the discussion: Father Of Shooter Asking For Privacy [View all]Ms. Toad
(38,090 posts)51. You cannot judge whether someone was a bad parent
by a single spectacularly violent act perpetrated by their child.
For argument's sake, let's assume a fourth possibility - he knew of his son's obsession and worked to turn his son's life around. His efforts were insufficient as his son still killed nearly 20 people. He should have gone to the police if he was not getting through to his son. Regardless, he still failed his son and society.
Do you know the parents did not try all of these, and more?
Parenting is the most difficult, demanding and important work most people will ever perform in their lives. It's not easy and if people are not prepared for the immense challenges that come with parenting, then they should not become parents.
That's incredibly arrogant of you.
In perfect hindsight, I'm sure my parents would not have adopted two of my siblings. They caused too much pain. They would have caused that pain wherever they were - but at least they would not have brought the pain into our family and our community.
At the time, the best wisdom was that enough love can fix all that went wrong in early childhood. The best wisdom was wrong.
One sibling was diagnosed at age 12 as an alcoholic (in a home in which there was not a drop of alcohol available) and as a sociopath. He was in and out of treatment/juvenile detention/rehabilitation facilities starting at age 12. At least two residential facilities and one out-patient until he left home in his mid-teens. He lived in a bottle until he was in his 40s, and none of us would have been surprised to learn he had killed or been killed in a bar fight. He briefly crawled out of the bottle for a decade, but has fallen back in. NOTHING my parents did, including virtually everything you suggest, had any impact at all on the trajectory of his life.
Would not becoming their parents, by leaving them in foster care, have served my siblings better? Almost certainly not. I like to think they benefited from being in a stable, loving home - my sister certainly did benefit. All leaving them there would have done was shifted the targets of their harm.
My parents did not fail either of my siblings, nor did they fail society. My siglings' lives were simply so damaged and their behavior so beyond repair, that their fate was sealed by the time my parents entered the picture. In their cases, because of circumstances they encountered in the womb (one, probably both FAS) - and in the first 3-4 years of their lives (one had evidence, at age 4, of fractures that only dome from being beaten). But miswiring occurs for all sorts of reasons beyond the control of the parents, and some of it results in children who act violently.
I don't know the circumstances in this family, but I do know you are making a hell of a lot of judgments you have no basis to make and - having walked in that family's shoes - I can tell you that that judgment makes an impossible situation worsel. The judgment, pain, and shame, nearly caused my mother to take her own life.
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That's proper use of guns, and I don't have a problem with that. My granddad had a farm too.
Hoyt
Feb 2018
#55
Both his parents are dead. The father has been dead for years . He bought the gun @ age 18
lunasun
Feb 2018
#98
His father, or adoptive father, was alive at the age most gunner dads indoctrinate their kids
Hoyt
Feb 2018
#119
Fuck him. He raised that monster and/or neglected the downward spiral his son was in.
LonePirate
Feb 2018
#6
He either promoted his son's gun obsession or he ignored it. He's a horrible father regardless.
LonePirate
Feb 2018
#17
It's obvious that the poster is expressing his/her opinion about the father...
TheDebbieDee
Feb 2018
#35
I think you need to look at the difference between offering an opinion and making up facts.
Blecht
Feb 2018
#131
It's really mob lies not just the OP but replies . Dad died yrs ago & killer bought the gun @ 18
lunasun
Feb 2018
#103
If every relative today's victims doesn't agree that bad parenting existed here, then I will retract
LonePirate
Feb 2018
#52
Did you brother actively and repeatedly display an unhealthy obsession with guns?
LonePirate
Feb 2018
#22
The parent either tolerated the gun obsession or ignored it (knowingly or unknowingly).
LonePirate
Feb 2018
#31
Parenting sucks. You do the best you can, or maybe you dont; no one helps and everyone judges.
lostnfound
Feb 2018
#33
As a society, we need to stop giving a pass to bad parents like those of the shooter.
LonePirate
Feb 2018
#43
By all means, share whatever you can about how the parents did everything they could to stop him.
LonePirate
Feb 2018
#70
I threw out every hypothetical that came to mind. Did I miss one that's on your mind?
LonePirate
Feb 2018
#47
I damn well am going to judge the parent of any kid who shoots up his school.
LonePirate
Feb 2018
#54
Their best efforts resulted in 17 dead people today. How is that not a failure at parenting?
LonePirate
Feb 2018
#72
And what if the parents of those victims have other children with mental health issues?
procon
Feb 2018
#86
If their kid(s) shoot up a school and kill 17 people, then yes, they would be bad parents also.
LonePirate
Feb 2018
#88
The father died years ago of a heart attack, the mom just died at Thanksgiving at age 68.
lostnfound
Feb 2018
#121
He died when the boy was four. But 1 in 3 people in Florida own a gun. And since
pnwmom
Feb 2018
#133
I have mixed feelings on this score... It seems increasingly like we NEVER hear anything about
hlthe2b
Feb 2018
#9
Since white wing dads started introducing their kids to the white wing gun culture.
Hoyt
Feb 2018
#61
Maybe that's both his bio parents, hence the foster parents ... only that mother is dead ...
mr_lebowski
Feb 2018
#62
thank you for your post, mopinko. As helpless as I feel about guns, I feel even more so in helping
hlthe2b
Feb 2018
#116
DU - Democrats - should be better than some of the shit being spewed in this thread.
NRaleighLiberal
Feb 2018
#79
This OP is a lie and should be deleted (father of shooter died years ago, mother died recently)
oberliner
Feb 2018
#110