General Discussion

NRaleighLiberal

(61,846 posts)

15. to truly solve this, there are so many moving parts

Reply to friendly_iconoclast (Original post)

Thu Feb 15, 2018, 12:10 AM

Feb 2018

First - it is going to take HONEST dialog among all concerned, disconnected with funding pressure.

Once that impossibility is breached -

It will take a revision of the second amendment to bring it to what is appropriate for the current environment

it will take an honest discussion between gun supporters and opponents, reaching agreement on which guns are appropriate for which uses - and, which are utterly over the top and unnecessary. So - handguns for self defense for those who wish them, rifles for hunters for those that feel they need them.

It will take patience and openness and understanding from those who are antigun - either due to geography, culture or philosophy - to accept that there are legit reasons for owning them.

It will take a total sea change of the gun industry and politicians who will have to modify their methods of selling, revenue expectations, and filling the coffers. In other words, there will have to be acceptance that human life - well being - has to come before money.

It will take an effort of law enforcement to create extremely severe penalties for owning any guns or equipment that do not fit into the above.

It will take an influx of spending into mental health care for those who are inclined to use violence

In other words - too complex for our too political, polarized times.

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What could be done differently about gun control that would actually work? [View all] friendly_iconoclast Feb 2018 OP

I'm not joking: If a million black men applied for gun permits, this republican congress Squinch Feb 2018 #1

I don't think you're joking, and your assessment is probably correct... friendly_iconoclast Feb 2018 #3

Yup!!! dhol82 Feb 2018 #4

Also, if you could get some Muslims out there voicing their second amendment rights dhol82 Feb 2018 #7

Good thinking! Squinch Feb 2018 #24

+1, Have them training in garb that looks like the video FAUX News loops but make sure there's masse uponit7771 Feb 2018 #36

Holy shit! What an idea. But is that in the application? ProudLib72 Feb 2018 #9

There was a time this was true, but not anymore. aikoaiko Feb 2018 #21

Sure aiko. Sure. They really want that. Squinch Feb 2018 #23

There are more African Americans, latinos, and women in... aikoaiko Feb 2018 #30

Yes, and if a million black men took them up on it, republicans would shit pickles. Squinch Feb 2018 #32

African Americans are buying guns in increasing numbers: friendly_iconoclast Feb 2018 #37

Uh huh. Just enough to be welcomed by gun companies going bankrupt. Not enough to make Squinch Feb 2018 #43

Well then, get out there and promote gun ownership by persons of color friendly_iconoclast Feb 2018 #47

WTF is wrong with you? Squinch Feb 2018 #50

Its a patronizing amount, typical winger crap to obfuscate the amount of people. If 10 PoC owned gun uponit7771 Feb 2018 #53

And J17's point about Philando Castile is well taken: they may want the money from Squinch Feb 2018 #57

Oh ... so TRUE !!! So TRUE !!! They want to spread the donor base don't give a shit about non whites uponit7771 Feb 2018 #58

Out of curiosity, is either one of you two a person of color? friendly_iconoclast Feb 2018 #62

Yes and A gun club with black folk in it. NRA is still culturally a whites only group, just like the uponit7771 Feb 2018 #63

At least those two are splitting gun owners away from the NRA, which is vital friendly_iconoclast Feb 2018 #67

Check the racial statistics regarding gun violence and tell me again guns are a white mans problem. MadDAsHell Feb 2018 #72

just look at the NRA's silence on Philando Castile JI7 Feb 2018 #39

No ... they're "courting" us like the KGOP courts us with the most amount of condescension available uponit7771 Feb 2018 #38

why didn't the NRA say anything about the shooting of Philando Castile ? JI7 Feb 2018 #40

Yes. That did seem a very pointed message to black men who take the gun companies up on Squinch Feb 2018 #49

AMEN !!! uponit7771 Feb 2018 #34

permits johnmont Feb 2018 #51

+1, permits just like any other WMD like a grenade or a .50 cal uponit7771 Feb 2018 #59

They nipped that in the bud by creating a culture where a quarter of black men have felonies. joshcryer Feb 2018 #83

All the better to scare the living shit out of Squinch Feb 2018 #100

They'd probably regulated it the same way they're regulating voting these days. PoindexterOglethorpe Feb 2018 #106

A Permanent Assault Weapons Ban Would Be a Good Place to Start dlk Feb 2018 #2

How do you propose to do this, after 24 years or so of failed attempts to do so? friendly_iconoclast Feb 2018 #10

So you aren't really wanting to hear people's opinions, you just want to tell everyone Squinch Feb 2018 #55

Oh no, he's here to help BeyondGeography Feb 2018 #79

There are plenty of people out there that will tell you that your preexisting beliefs are true friendly_iconoclast Feb 2018 #157

While you are here, many thanks to you and your friends BeyondGeography Feb 2018 #214

You seem to have ...overlooked... my several gun control proposals in this very thread friendly_iconoclast Feb 2018 #215

... Major Nikon Feb 2018 #98

I 'tell' no such thing. I say gun control *as currently mooted in the US* hasn't worked friendly_iconoclast Feb 2018 #159

Buy them back. At $100,000 per firearm. EL34x4 Feb 2018 #198

"Won't be cheap" is kinda of a understatement... EX500rider Feb 2018 #201

Woops, that is the number of gun owners not the number of guns. EX500rider Feb 2018 #205

supposed actual gun # in US Kustom Feb 2018 #223

State level initiatives to control guns. After all, the 2nd amendment is all about states Xipe Totec Feb 2018 #5

I think that issue was settled with Heller and McDonald SCOTUS cases aikoaiko Feb 2018 #22

In home, and it didn't say what kind and how many guns. Besides they overruled previous precedent Hoyt Feb 2018 #89

They didn't overturn anything. It was an unsettled matter. aikoaiko Feb 2018 #90

It actually wasn't "unsettled". They overturned existing precedent hueymahl Feb 2018 #221

The states have been at the forefront of liberalizing gun laws for 20 years hack89 Feb 2018 #102

First off, quit listening to people who cant imagine life without a bunch of friggin guns. Hoyt Feb 2018 #6

That right there. Our right to live should matter more than their fucking guns. onecaliberal Feb 2018 #19

I said this in another thread.... MontanaMama Feb 2018 #69

I had words with a humper in another thread I had to walk away. onecaliberal Feb 2018 #70

How well has this approach worked for you, personally? friendly_iconoclast Feb 2018 #25

Not important. You gun-strokers/promoters are in the minority. You depend on a white wing Hoyt Feb 2018 #91

Not important? If you (the plural 'you') can't get the votes, nothing changes friendly_iconoclast Feb 2018 #142

Maybe if gunners would stop voting for white wing GOPers to protect their precious lethal weapons, Hoyt Feb 2018 #183

What you're engaging in is heckling from the sidelines, not activism friendly_iconoclast Feb 2018 #184

What you are engaging in is gun promotion and selfishness. You need your friggin guns to live, so Hoyt Feb 2018 #185

I own no guns, and have said so on DU repeatedly over the years friendly_iconoclast Feb 2018 #191

Yeah, right. You just promote guns and hang out in the Gungeon because you like the company. Hoyt Feb 2018 #192

Engaging with those who are politically 'all hat and no cattle' is also fun friendly_iconoclast Feb 2018 #195

Gun registration. Not for school shootings, but for 90% of gun deaths missingm Feb 2018 #8

Add background checks to that. MiniMe Feb 2018 #64

My thoughts are that the US has always been armed to the teeth Yupster Feb 2018 #11

Moore's Bowling for Columbine covers that well. Fear. NRaleighLiberal Feb 2018 #16

"The Home of the Brave" Dave Starsky Feb 2018 #109

It is cultural DBoon Feb 2018 #20

Been wondering that myself. MarvinGardens Feb 2018 #180

Heh. TheCowsCameHome Feb 2018 #12

So far, it's been "same old same old". C'mon people, NEW ideas!! friendly_iconoclast Feb 2018 #17

So your purpose in this is to shoot down anything anyone says. I somehow forgot that Squinch Feb 2018 #61

What's been tried before clearly hasn't worked. Put the "Two Minutes' Hate" aside... friendly_iconoclast Feb 2018 #65

. Squinch Feb 2018 #93

Vent all you want, but your (and our) problem remains: friendly_iconoclast Feb 2018 #140

Okay, try this new idea. PoindexterOglethorpe Feb 2018 #107

Unfortunately the government has to pay for stuff they seize.. $$$$ EX500rider Feb 2018 #121

No matter what is suggested, PoindexterOglethorpe Feb 2018 #133

Not unreasonable to point out reasons something might not work.. EX500rider Feb 2018 #134

Is holding (at least in ones' own opinion) the moral high ground important if nothing changes? friendly_iconoclast Feb 2018 #141

No!!! YOU are saying it cannot be done. longship Feb 2018 #204

I oppose most of that. MarvinGardens Feb 2018 #181

Thats completely insane. Codeine Feb 2018 #217

Vote for people that will enact gun control legislation on a federal basis the trumps state law. LuvLoogie Feb 2018 #13

All proposals made so far have been attempted- and failed friendly_iconoclast Feb 2018 #14

There's a name for someone mac56 Feb 2018 #160

I don't mind being thought a prick if it gets people to act effectively friendly_iconoclast Feb 2018 #163

to truly solve this, there are so many moving parts NRaleighLiberal Feb 2018 #15

"Too complex for our too political, polarized times." friendly_iconoclast Feb 2018 #33

"handguns for self defense for those who wish them, rifles for hunters" EX500rider Feb 2018 #124

It's not any specific law, it is about culture change DBoon Feb 2018 #18

Great minds think alike you beat me to it wasupaloopa Feb 2018 #27

owning an AR-15 doesn't make you cool or glamorous DBoon Feb 2018 #28

Make a commercial with a hot chick LeftInTX Feb 2018 #95

Yes!!!!! LeftInTX Feb 2018 #94

This, I believe, is the correct answer. Dave Starsky Feb 2018 #110

We have to make owning a gun an anti social action as we did with smoking. wasupaloopa Feb 2018 #26

Have you ever persuaded anyone that didn't already dislike guns to shun gun owners? friendly_iconoclast Feb 2018 #31

People have to do this on a personal level. It is an awareness thing wasupaloopa Feb 2018 #99

Nothing wrong with that friendly_iconoclast Feb 2018 #150

Start with banning the manufacture & sales of new semi-auto firearms samir.g Feb 2018 #29

I think you mean have a Constitutional Convention 1st to change the 2nd. EX500rider Feb 2018 #126

a guest on Lawrence KT2000 Feb 2018 #35

Don't work that "Bill of Needs" approach too hard-the RW likes to use that for stuff *we* like: friendly_iconoclast Feb 2018 #44

Legally disallow the NRA from donating to or lobbying the government. forgotmylogin Feb 2018 #41

How do you propose to do that? Sounds like a 'bill of attainder' to me: friendly_iconoclast Feb 2018 #45

Someone asked what could be done differently. forgotmylogin Feb 2018 #48

The guy you are responding to is the one who asked it. With his responses, he is showing Squinch Feb 2018 #52

"...he is showing what his true purpose is" Spit the mealies out of your mouth, and inform us... friendly_iconoclast Feb 2018 #71

Which request got the expected reply: friendly_iconoclast Feb 2018 #154

Still a bill of attainder, unless you restrict *all* persons and orgs similarly friendly_iconoclast Feb 2018 #56

Which is not a bad idea at all... friendly_iconoclast Feb 2018 #164

There has to be a social stigma, large monetary expense and lots of red tape for procon Feb 2018 #42

Title guns like cars. Pay fees for annual stickers. Proof of insurance. Freelancer Feb 2018 #46

+1 uponit7771 Feb 2018 #54

I like that: No political pre-approval for purchase or licensing, and you can take your gun... friendly_iconoclast Feb 2018 #74

If you accept that gun ownership is a Constitutional right NickB79 Feb 2018 #199

There has to be an uneasy truce that can be reached Freelancer Feb 2018 #210

Strick ammo control. PufPuf23 Feb 2018 #60

Treat guns like we do cars. Blue_true Feb 2018 #66

Actually a good idea, but remember some *other* aspects of cars friendly_iconoclast Feb 2018 #68

Must give you a thrill to ask for honest MontanaMama Feb 2018 #73

Actually, it's depressing- amen choruses are satisfying, feel good, and change nothing outside friendly_iconoclast Feb 2018 #75

Shock Tactics StuckInTexas Feb 2018 #76

Also, and perhaps most importantly, money. StuckInTexas Feb 2018 #77

I agree with you on the money part, not on the atrocity porn friendly_iconoclast Feb 2018 #78

Charge the NRA with weapons trafficking, RICO violations, and shut them down for good. Hekate Feb 2018 #80

I don't think the NRA actually sells any guns so a trafficking charge will be a stretch. EX500rider Feb 2018 #128

1) They are the lobbying arm of the weapons industry. 2) They laundered Russian money... Hekate Feb 2018 #206

You should present a serious license every time to purchase a gun or possess or transport a gun... Sancho Feb 2018 #81

This is a great post hueymahl Feb 2018 #172

Feel free to copy the post... Sancho Feb 2018 #175

One posibility... Dale Neiburg Feb 2018 #82

The insurance idea keeps getting tossed around and is absurd Lee-Lee Feb 2018 #86

I believe I've read this same response from you elsewhere. phylny Feb 2018 #92

If you mandate they cover intentional crime then nobody will wrote the policies Lee-Lee Feb 2018 #108

If the insurance is cost prohibitive, it'll curb gun ownership. phylny Feb 2018 #111

And thats why such a law would be unconstitutional Lee-Lee Feb 2018 #113

I'm willing to take that risk. Perhaps you and the gun owners here have a better solution phylny Feb 2018 #114

I have solutions Lee-Lee Feb 2018 #116

all true Egnever Feb 2018 #122

Your idea is predicated on the idea that criminals will buy the insurance Lee-Lee Feb 2018 #131

no its not Egnever Feb 2018 #132

A start that will cause my harm than good Lee-Lee Feb 2018 #137

Awesome crystal ball you have there. Egnever Feb 2018 #138

The particular 'something' you want done would have consequences opposite to what you desire friendly_iconoclast Feb 2018 #143

Says who? Egnever Feb 2018 #144

That says nothing about the insurance angle you've touted in multiple posts friendly_iconoclast Feb 2018 #149

Have not given up on it at all Egnever Feb 2018 #152

Mandated car insurance doesn't pay for criminal acts, which is what you've stated you want friendly_iconoclast Feb 2018 #155

in order to reap that profit they would have to identify the risk correctly Egnever Feb 2018 #156

What if they don't price people out of the market and/or go broke? friendly_iconoclast Feb 2018 #161

Then they will have judged the risk correctly Egnever Feb 2018 #166

You really dont have a clue here Lee-Lee Feb 2018 #167

It's difficult for anyone to examine their own prejudices objectively- you, me, or anyone else friendly_iconoclast Feb 2018 #168

You know, I'm 60 years old. I remember when there was very little phylny Feb 2018 #123

But people did have guns Lee-Lee Feb 2018 #125

Yeah, but back then, I don't remember gunners acting like this -- Hoyt Feb 2018 #186

So, technology in the 60s and 70s hasn't evolved to allow guns tht phylny Feb 2018 #190

Read their post again- those guns already existed, with less regulation on sales friendly_iconoclast Feb 2018 #196

Technology on guns has changed very little since the 60s Lee-Lee Feb 2018 #197

Bullet tax. joshcryer Feb 2018 #84

Restrict the sale of ammunition FarCenter Feb 2018 #118

The first question you need to ask is what is your goal Lee-Lee Feb 2018 #85

Shame. We need a public relations campaign that makes people feel ashamed. yardwork Feb 2018 #87

I was thinking along this same vein MontanaMama Feb 2018 #96

Let's start a movement. yardwork Feb 2018 #119

Yep. I'd like to see something like the Vietnam Veterans Memorial Wall KTM Feb 2018 #146

We should stop putting the cart before the horse. Captain Stern Feb 2018 #88

You can have all the Assault Weapons, rifles and bump-stocks as you want maxrandb Feb 2018 #97

Send elected officials to DC who are not in the pocket of the NRA. LonePirate Feb 2018 #101

Okay, this is gonna be unpopular, but... DetlefK Feb 2018 #103

I'm okay with this. phylny Feb 2018 #115

It isnt gun owners responsibility to ensure other citizens follow the law OU65802 Feb 2018 #162

Think of the outrage here if that was tried in re certain other identifiable groups... friendly_iconoclast Feb 2018 #165

Replace gun owners with a religious group and see if your argument still sounds valid Lee-Lee Feb 2018 #170

Yep still valid, if I were baptist and the catholics OU65802 Feb 2018 #194

It's not my responsibility. If gun owners refuse to allow reasonable measures phylny Feb 2018 #189

Responsible gun owners like myself have already allowed hundreds OU65802 Feb 2018 #193

So what do you propose? n/t phylny Feb 2018 #200

We need our old members to speak up Yupster Feb 2018 #208

Stop calling it "gun control" call it "gun safety" Merlot Feb 2018 #104

It's been tried, and AFAIK has yet to catch on friendly_iconoclast Feb 2018 #145

Perfect is the enemy of good enough. Dave Starsky Feb 2018 #105

Felons are prohibited from owning firearms and there is a mandatory jail sentence already. EX500rider Feb 2018 #130

Sweep away all the NRApublicans who are taking #NRAROUBLES. lagomorph777 Feb 2018 #112

How about if you start first? MineralMan Feb 2018 #117

GOOD POINT!!!! I'm also waiting bluestarone Feb 2018 #173

Here ya go: 1) Mandatory background checks for every gun sale. 2)Open up the instant check system... friendly_iconoclast Feb 2018 #188

That's it? OilemFirchen Feb 2018 #203

'Reasonable' laws that don't get enacted save no one. Half a loaf is better than no loaf at all... friendly_iconoclast Feb 2018 #211

If we want instant, meaningful change we have to overhaul our political system. kcr Feb 2018 #120

IN short, Ban the Republican Party Fluke a Snooker Feb 2018 #127

I don't think we should ban any parties kcr Feb 2018 #171

Elect conscientious people who don't masturbate with their guns at night. NCTraveler Feb 2018 #129

More focus on ballot initiatives Nevernose Feb 2018 #135

It would never happen d_r Feb 2018 #136

Start locally, with your family, your community... hunter Feb 2018 #139

Prosecute the NRA for laundering Russian money into campaigns meadowlander Feb 2018 #147

Agree on your first idea, but the second wouldn't work even if it made it through court friendly_iconoclast Feb 2018 #153

Maybe there could be more mental health clinics that are low cost/no cost WhiteTara Feb 2018 #148

Call it "gun sense" , gun control is a rightwing term Eliot Rosewater Feb 2018 #151

I see a lot of great ideas here but OU65802 Feb 2018 #158

I disagree - See Post 81 hueymahl Feb 2018 #174

Post 81 is the umpteenth repost of that poster's proposal for a 'TSA for firearms'... friendly_iconoclast Feb 2018 #213

And yet you still refuse to respond to it hueymahl Feb 2018 #220

The self-importance is getting a bit thick. I owe neither you nor that poster any debate whatsoever friendly_iconoclast Feb 2018 #225

Good day to you, sir hueymahl Feb 2018 #234

Ask Australia tenderfoot Feb 2018 #169

You can't be a mental health patient. redstatebluegirl Feb 2018 #176

If you are truly interested in an answer to your question, and not simply trolling hueymahl Feb 2018 #177

They've been posting that same cut-n-paste proposal for years. It's a 'TSA for guns', basically. friendly_iconoclast Feb 2018 #212

Who is they? hueymahl Feb 2018 #216

The person whose proposals you been touting. Also, I've no need to prove *anything* to you,... friendly_iconoclast Feb 2018 #218

You are right, You don't need to PROVE anything to me hueymahl Feb 2018 #219

That poster can speak for themselves. I don't 'do' demands from self-appointed white knights friendly_iconoclast Feb 2018 #226

Got it hueymahl Feb 2018 #233

Doing.Some. shanny Feb 2018 #178

People control: Regulate the Unorganized Militia. maxsolomon Feb 2018 #179

That's easy rock Feb 2018 #182

Exactly. Shut those Ruskie racists down. Hoyt Feb 2018 #187

We Could Look to Australia for Specific Steps dlk Feb 2018 #202

This thread needs fumigation Stinky The Clown Feb 2018 #207

Tax guns. XRubicon Feb 2018 #209

Ban online ammo sales jmowreader Feb 2018 #222

Spam deleted by MIR Team Kustom Feb 2018 #224

Spam deleted by MIR Team Kustom Feb 2018 #235

Spam deleted by MIR Team Kustom Feb 2018 #236

Quite right on this! usr1987 Jan 2019 #237

You come here and post in a nearly year old gun thread? rzemanfl Jan 2019 #238

Start with passing CT gun laws, they are proven to save lives. Exultant Democracy Feb 2018 #227

Massachusetts laws mostly work for me (save for AG Healey's recent security theater in re rifles) friendly_iconoclast Feb 2018 #230

PERMANENT assault weapon ban. dchill Feb 2018 #228

Negotiate aikoaiko Feb 2018 #229

Follow Australia's example taken after the Port Arthur massacre in the mid-90s. They haven't had... brush Feb 2018 #231

May I suggest the dreaded C word? customerserviceguy Feb 2018 #232