General Discussion

limpyhobbler

(8,244 posts)

20. yeah I guess that's about right

Thu Jul 26, 2012, 02:26 AM

Jul 2012

He has called himself at various times a democratic socialist or social-democrat. Those terms easily blur for people who prefer or expect relatively gradual evolution from capitalism toward socialism. I could lump myself in with that description.

Once you see the social-democratic program as a stepping stone to more fundamental changes in economic and social relationships, then the policies of social-democrats are the same as democratic-socialists, and the distinction becomes moot.

But from what I've seen Sanders does advocate Norway-type social democracy like you mentioned. Whether it is his end goal or he has some other vision beyond that, doesn't interest me so much.

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One of the nice things about being well-versed in Marxism [View all] ithinkmyliverhurts Jul 2012 OP

You've inspired me to investigate Marxism. I really don't know anything gateley Jul 2012 #1

This might be a good starting point.. cyberswede Jul 2012 #2

This is pretty heavy stuff but excellent. ithinkmyliverhurts Jul 2012 #3

Here is a good intro by Engles. The Principles of Communism. white_wolf Jul 2012 #8

Too bad it's not taught..really taught..as part of a history lesson. In depth, capitalism and nanabugg Jul 2012 #27

Hi can I ask why you call Senator Sanders a "capitalist"? limpyhobbler Jul 2012 #4

I will retract and apologize for this. ithinkmyliverhurts Jul 2012 #5

no need to apologize, just wondered what it meant to you limpyhobbler Jul 2012 #9

Sanders is a Social-Democrat. He supports capitalism... white_wolf Jul 2012 #7

Every Marxist has to support capitalism to some degree, ithinkmyliverhurts Jul 2012 #11

Well I see what you are saying, but... white_wolf Jul 2012 #12

yeah I guess that's about right limpyhobbler Jul 2012 #20

Don't conflate markets and private ownership with capitalism Scootaloo Jul 2012 #25

Isn't private ownership one of the defining traits of a capitalist economy? white_wolf Jul 2012 #40

Marx offered no 'solutions' to Capitalism - he analyzed it leftstreet Jul 2012 #6

Hmmm, I guess we'll just disagree here, but I'll try not to insult you. ithinkmyliverhurts Jul 2012 #10

That's not a solution, that's an inevitability leftstreet Jul 2012 #13

It's not simply a result. ithinkmyliverhurts Jul 2012 #14

Regarding your last two sentences. white_wolf Jul 2012 #16

They are Hegelian and not Marxists. ithinkmyliverhurts Jul 2012 #17

The Trotskist V Marxist-Leninist debates are insane. white_wolf Jul 2012 #19

I got POUNDED in my dialectical materialism seminar for taking a Hegelian position. lapislzi Jul 2012 #28

if you know they exist, why don't you quote marx on solutions rather than someone else's problematic HiPointDem Jul 2012 #18

I don't think my post above implies ithinkmyliverhurts Jul 2012 #23

saying the system is unsustainable isn't offering a 'solution'. Neither is a limit to the workday HiPointDem Jul 2012 #35

didnt marx & engels coin the phrase "dictatorship of the proletariat"? BOG PERSON Jul 2012 #26

The term (the Roman dictatura) didn't mean tyranny leftstreet Jul 2012 #37

it does sort of imply a transitional period BOG PERSON Jul 2012 #39

Can I ask how you get people to listen long enough to grasp the points without trying to refute HiPointDem Jul 2012 #15

Ask them if they w to give up their Marxist fire department eridani Jul 2012 #21

Marx is just plain Wrong econoclast Jul 2012 #22

Your understanding of the LTV is wrong. white_wolf Jul 2012 #24

Even a Dyslexic srjmsbnd Nov 2012 #41

good point BOG PERSON Jul 2012 #30

That Is Flat Nonesense, Sir The Magistrate Jul 2012 #32

I'm pretty sure Bog Person was being sarcastic. n/t. white_wolf Jul 2012 #33

If You Know The Person, Sir, I Will Take Your Word For It The Magistrate Jul 2012 #34

edit as i see it's sarcasm HiPointDem Jul 2012 #36

Go to the manufacturer not the mall srjmsbnd Nov 2012 #42

Unfortunately, Sir, Your Example Has Nothng To Do With Labor The Magistrate Jul 2012 #31

It takes 20 Years to throw a football srjmsbnd Nov 2012 #43

This message was self-deleted by its author srjmsbnd Nov 2012 #44

Capitalist Solipsistism srjmsbnd Nov 2012 #45

I haven't really studied Marx but Cleita Jul 2012 #29

I think you may be the smartest person deaniac21 Jul 2012 #38