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econoclast

(543 posts)

22. Marx is just plain Wrong

Reply to ithinkmyliverhurts (Original post)

Thu Jul 26, 2012, 09:03 AM

Jul 2012

Sorry, but Marx is just plain old, flat wrong. All of Marx stands (or alas falls) on the Labor Theory of Value. And LTV is wrong. For the uninitiated, LTV says that prices - ALL prices - come from the amount of labor required to produce the item or service. According to LTV, supply and demand DO NOT generate prices. Only the amount of labor contained in an item or service.

LTV is demonstrably false. A quick trip to the mall easily provides examples showing the fallacy of LTV.

Classic example. Consider the wages of A-Rod vs Michael Phelps. Does it take more labor to be an Gold Glove Major League infielder or to win 8 Olympic Gold Medals?

The fact is that A-Rod makes Waaaaay more than Phelps is that lots more people want to pay to see A-Rod play baseball ( to boo him or cheer him) than are willing to pay to watch Phelps swim. Hence LTV is wrong. And without LTV, all of Marx is fiction. Interesting fiction, but fiction nonetheless.

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One of the nice things about being well-versed in Marxism [View all] ithinkmyliverhurts Jul 2012 OP

You've inspired me to investigate Marxism. I really don't know anything gateley Jul 2012 #1

This might be a good starting point.. cyberswede Jul 2012 #2

This is pretty heavy stuff but excellent. ithinkmyliverhurts Jul 2012 #3

Here is a good intro by Engles. The Principles of Communism. white_wolf Jul 2012 #8

Too bad it's not taught..really taught..as part of a history lesson. In depth, capitalism and nanabugg Jul 2012 #27

Hi can I ask why you call Senator Sanders a "capitalist"? limpyhobbler Jul 2012 #4

I will retract and apologize for this. ithinkmyliverhurts Jul 2012 #5

no need to apologize, just wondered what it meant to you limpyhobbler Jul 2012 #9

Sanders is a Social-Democrat. He supports capitalism... white_wolf Jul 2012 #7

Every Marxist has to support capitalism to some degree, ithinkmyliverhurts Jul 2012 #11

Well I see what you are saying, but... white_wolf Jul 2012 #12

yeah I guess that's about right limpyhobbler Jul 2012 #20

Don't conflate markets and private ownership with capitalism Scootaloo Jul 2012 #25

Isn't private ownership one of the defining traits of a capitalist economy? white_wolf Jul 2012 #40

Marx offered no 'solutions' to Capitalism - he analyzed it leftstreet Jul 2012 #6

Hmmm, I guess we'll just disagree here, but I'll try not to insult you. ithinkmyliverhurts Jul 2012 #10

That's not a solution, that's an inevitability leftstreet Jul 2012 #13

It's not simply a result. ithinkmyliverhurts Jul 2012 #14

Regarding your last two sentences. white_wolf Jul 2012 #16

They are Hegelian and not Marxists. ithinkmyliverhurts Jul 2012 #17

The Trotskist V Marxist-Leninist debates are insane. white_wolf Jul 2012 #19

I got POUNDED in my dialectical materialism seminar for taking a Hegelian position. lapislzi Jul 2012 #28

if you know they exist, why don't you quote marx on solutions rather than someone else's problematic HiPointDem Jul 2012 #18

I don't think my post above implies ithinkmyliverhurts Jul 2012 #23

saying the system is unsustainable isn't offering a 'solution'. Neither is a limit to the workday HiPointDem Jul 2012 #35

didnt marx & engels coin the phrase "dictatorship of the proletariat"? BOG PERSON Jul 2012 #26

The term (the Roman dictatura) didn't mean tyranny leftstreet Jul 2012 #37

it does sort of imply a transitional period BOG PERSON Jul 2012 #39

Can I ask how you get people to listen long enough to grasp the points without trying to refute HiPointDem Jul 2012 #15

Ask them if they w to give up their Marxist fire department eridani Jul 2012 #21

Marx is just plain Wrong econoclast Jul 2012 #22

Your understanding of the LTV is wrong. white_wolf Jul 2012 #24

Even a Dyslexic srjmsbnd Nov 2012 #41

good point BOG PERSON Jul 2012 #30

That Is Flat Nonesense, Sir The Magistrate Jul 2012 #32

I'm pretty sure Bog Person was being sarcastic. n/t. white_wolf Jul 2012 #33

If You Know The Person, Sir, I Will Take Your Word For It The Magistrate Jul 2012 #34

edit as i see it's sarcasm HiPointDem Jul 2012 #36

Go to the manufacturer not the mall srjmsbnd Nov 2012 #42

Unfortunately, Sir, Your Example Has Nothng To Do With Labor The Magistrate Jul 2012 #31

It takes 20 Years to throw a football srjmsbnd Nov 2012 #43

This message was self-deleted by its author srjmsbnd Nov 2012 #44

Capitalist Solipsistism srjmsbnd Nov 2012 #45

I haven't really studied Marx but Cleita Jul 2012 #29

I think you may be the smartest person deaniac21 Jul 2012 #38