General Discussion

mr_lebowski

(33,643 posts)

208. Exciting as it SOUNDS, I'm having trouble understanding what exactly is the CRIME?

Fri Feb 16, 2018, 07:58 PM

Feb 2018

These Russians were 'Indicted for Interference in US Presidential Campaign'?

Is that an actual Statute that's written down somewhere?

If not, what's the real/actual CHARGE? Spreading propaganda to help/hurt POTUS candidates is not AFAIK, technically 'illegal' is it? Or is it illegal simply by virtue of their being 'foreign actors'?

Would've REALLY liked to see some serious like, illegal hacking, laundering, wire fraud, tax evasion, illegal donations/campaign finance violation charges ... hopefully that'll happen to some Americans (coughtrumpcough)

When I read 13 Russians INDICTED ... I thought some Russians were actually going to go to jail for some semblance of a serious crime. At worst these people won't be allowed into the USA and maybe have funds frozen. They won't, like, not be able to leave Russia without CIA/Interpol looking for 'em to arrest them or some shit.

If it's just 'foreign interference in elections' this is like ... small potatoes.

Though at least it's possibly a 'set up' for much more serious charges upon US actors.

Also, no way do I think Bernie was intentionally involved in ANY of this bullshit.

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Indictment: Russians conspired to help Donald Trump and Bernie Sanders [View all] RandySF Feb 2018 OP

Now an undeniable fact. dalton99a Feb 2018 #1

I feel validation now... FarPoint Feb 2018 #179

So many trolls that DU split over WhiteTara Feb 2018 #181

Absolutely. FarPoint Feb 2018 #185

That is very true. We lost some VERY fine people WhiteTara Feb 2018 #188

We, the long term DU'ERS.. FarPoint Feb 2018 #193

Me too FarPoint WhiteTara Feb 2018 #196

I'm still here too...It was a beautiful time, back in the day . FarPoint Feb 2018 #200

Yes it was. yardwork Feb 2018 #213

Double WOW Me. Feb 2018 #2

This message was self-deleted by its author dalton99a Feb 2018 #3

They were not for Bernie as much as they were for causing chaos. Blue_true Feb 2018 #139

Did we not state that obvious fact clearly enough? Cary Feb 2018 #154

Yes, you did. yardwork Feb 2018 #214

I Hope Democrats Don't Savage Each Others Candidates Too Me. Feb 2018 #171

What woah! sheshe2 Feb 2018 #4

Right? Me. Feb 2018 #9

Yes about DEVINE. Let's hear from him about all this. R B Garr Feb 2018 #20

What happened to Hillary's voter data? Who owns that big list now? Wwcd Feb 2018 #38

Exactly, let's revisit that whole scenario. That was no little campaign R B Garr Feb 2018 #53

Yup. And as soon as that news hit the headlines, BAM! Assange drops a Wwcd Feb 2018 #66

Yes Indeed Me. Feb 2018 #173

The DNC has her list. Demsrule86 Feb 2018 #234

You gotta wonder, right? mcar Feb 2018 #110

I'll Be Honest Me. Feb 2018 #174

It was never appropriate for some to demand answers from HRC mcar Feb 2018 #176

Exactly Me. Feb 2018 #177

They should end today mcar Feb 2018 #182

Where are the tax returns? yardwork Feb 2018 #215

This message was self-deleted by its author Fullduplexxx Feb 2018 #5

Really? MelissaB Feb 2018 #15

No i dont believe that i'll go remove it Fullduplexxx Feb 2018 #16

Out of loop on this. What is your source?? Is this proof? Recent? What? bobbieinok Feb 2018 #6

The Indictment By Mueller States There Were Bots For Bernie Me. Feb 2018 #10

SORRY. Checked DU front page and see breaking news bobbieinok Feb 2018 #11

Here: online page of the indictment. dixiegrrrrl Feb 2018 #241

I always figured. This doesn't surprise me at all. NurseJackie Feb 2018 #7

Lots of shoes dropping today. sheshe2 Feb 2018 #21

Raining ass kicking boots today. democratisphere Feb 2018 #57

Lol! sheshe2 Feb 2018 #58

+ struggle4progress Feb 2018 #229

Its why we had to set up our own Hillary site. Thank you Bill wasupaloopa Feb 2018 #44

Thank you. William769 Feb 2018 #63

It was great that you were there for us. murielm99 Feb 2018 #239

Thank you for the kind words. William769 Feb 2018 #240

Yeah, when my belief of who certain people really are is known to all, it will maybe be too late. Eliot Rosewater Feb 2018 #84

Publicly embracing Hillary and supporting Obama on DU - Remember what risky behavior that was? NBachers Feb 2018 #134

I Haven't Forgotten Me. Feb 2018 #175

I remember it well. sheshe2 Feb 2018 #191

Yes, it was impossible to have a conversation about Hillary. yardwork Feb 2018 #237

I knew it! Something smelled about both campaigns. Stick a fork in Bernie...he's done. n/t Tarheel_Dem Feb 2018 #8

IF there are dots to be connected MelissaB Feb 2018 #19

Nice post, MelissaB R B Garr Feb 2018 #22

Thank you! MelissaB Feb 2018 #24

Agree! Thank you. mountain grammy Feb 2018 #52

Same here, Bernie primary supporter who voted for my president Hillary Clinton elmac Feb 2018 #100

Thank you, MelissaB sarge43 Feb 2018 #101

This is about our Democracy and not one candidate. mcar Feb 2018 #111

+1 BannonsLiver Feb 2018 #31

Riiiiight. shanny Feb 2018 #83

Yup! Cobalt Violet Feb 2018 #117

Bernie Bros a myth? The Sanders campaign made public statements saying it was aware of them stevenleser Feb 2018 #150

Ding ding ding!!!!! sheshe2 Feb 2018 #192

Doesn't matter whose fault it is. He's damaged by this, and any future national run will be shaded Tarheel_Dem Feb 2018 #168

If he runs again he MUST release all his tax returns. yardwork Feb 2018 #216

I am still mystified as to why he wouldn't release them in the first place, and I'm even more.... Tarheel_Dem Feb 2018 #227

I'm not surprised that he suppressed them and I don't think he'll ever release them. yardwork Feb 2018 #231

Never bought the Bros thing and glad I missed Obama Boys, jeeze. appalachiablue Feb 2018 #218

And, if true, how is this (Senator) Bernie's fault exactly? FailureToCommunicate Feb 2018 #106

Right! Trump conspired with Russians. Bernie did not. liberalnarb Feb 2018 #125

I'll tell you how. In my opinion he didn't do enough to stop the acrimony among his supporters stevenleser Feb 2018 #152

And "enough" for you would have been what? Sanders didn't fan those ravers. FailureToCommunicate Feb 2018 #153

That is an easy question to answer. Here is what he should have said repeatedly: stevenleser Feb 2018 #158

It should have been an easy thing to say, Steven mcar Feb 2018 #180

To me the reason is obvious, Sanders intended to ride that wave of poison to the stevenleser Feb 2018 #225

Doesn't matter whose fault it is. The Russian state showed a preference for Hillary's foes in the.. Tarheel_Dem Feb 2018 #170

holy crap.... BoneyardDem Feb 2018 #12

Oh to be a fly on the wall! sheshe2 Feb 2018 #26

Explains why he's heading to the Mara lago hidey hole Wwcd Feb 2018 #42

Wow, indeed! Skidmore Feb 2018 #13

I was a huge Bernie supporter, and this doesn't surprise me. MelissaB Feb 2018 #14

It doesnt surprise me ither but it doesnt mean he was involved. ooky Feb 2018 #67

Who else on the Democratic side MuseRider Feb 2018 #72

+1... dae Feb 2018 #140

Yea, I did not have any of them either. MuseRider Feb 2018 #143

Agree 100%, I have no regrets about supporting Bernie. If he run as dae Feb 2018 #145

We won't have to worry about Bernie running as a Democrat in 2020. Bank on it! nt Tarheel_Dem Feb 2018 #172

Thanks but Ill wait and see. dae Feb 2018 #220

Have fun waiting. Tarheel_Dem Feb 2018 #228

I agree! MelissaB Feb 2018 #74

He may not, ooky mcar Feb 2018 #114

I would not have believed ooky Feb 2018 #186

K mcar Feb 2018 #189

Nobody is saying that Bernie conspired with them NastyRiffraff Feb 2018 #157

And that one picture... sheshe2 Feb 2018 #194

They conspired to promote trump and Sanders and disparage Hillary Clinton. This is a BFD!! George II Feb 2018 #17

They certainly did. BOTH of those candidates BENEFITTED... NurseJackie Feb 2018 #91

In hindsight, this may explain a LOT of what went on in 2016. George II Feb 2018 #94

It sure seems to explain a lot, George mcar Feb 2018 #115

Bernie benefited so much he won the primary!!!! Dennis Donovan Feb 2018 #146

Winning the primary isn't the only benefit. NurseJackie Feb 2018 #147

Why, you're right! Bernie's a ruble-laden billionaire now! Dennis Donovan Feb 2018 #149

Who knows? Hard to say for sure. Maybe the tax returns will reveal something... NurseJackie Feb 2018 #151

Good one! Dennis Donovan Feb 2018 #156

Moving the goalposts mcar Feb 2018 #187

Only two candidates refused to reveal their tax returns. Just happens to be the two the Russians... Tarheel_Dem Feb 2018 #178

The point was to elect Trump. Bernie was used as a wedge to divide Democrats. yardwork Feb 2018 #232

Yes, and they directed people to vote Jill Stein over Hillary. herding cats Feb 2018 #18

"They sowed anger and discontent..." BoneyardDem Feb 2018 #25

I ran into some of the same terms used in their propaganda here in 2016. herding cats Feb 2018 #48

Anointed, oligarch, etc. yardwork Feb 2018 #233

Yes, those were adopted and used freely. herding cats Feb 2018 #235

Both those terms echo Russian culture. I was suspicious from the beginning. yardwork Feb 2018 #236

I hope the people that voted Stein, wrote in or sat home Blue_true Feb 2018 #141

As do I. herding cats Feb 2018 #148

And can we please, finally stop with the mcar Feb 2018 #190

Hell yes! sheshe2 Feb 2018 #195

I am done with this silliness, she mcar Feb 2018 #197

Do you think that Sanders was involved with this ? CentralMass Feb 2018 #23

I don't rmember Sanders trying to reign anyone in.,..even when shit messages were pointed out BoneyardDem Feb 2018 #28

Exactly. It wasn't until it was unavoidable news that he mentioned Russian R B Garr Feb 2018 #33

Bernie drew huge crowds without any help from anyone. Sophia4 Feb 2018 #118

bernie lost, and likley would have lost by even more if not for the Russian assistance he accepted BoneyardDem Feb 2018 #121

My comment about my friends' children has to do with the fact that focusing on Sophia4 Feb 2018 #207

You got on the wrong train, or are deliberately trying to change the subject. BoneyardDem Feb 2018 #209

Oh, please. His message was one of the reasons the R B Garr Feb 2018 #155

Hillary had over 55 % of the delegates, and Bernie had over 43% of the delegates Sophia4 Feb 2018 #204

Hillary has been a Democrat for decades. nt R B Garr Feb 2018 #206

Trump had huge crowds. boston bean Feb 2018 #163

So did Don... sheshe2 Feb 2018 #199

Both drew large crowds. Sophia4 Feb 2018 #203

Nor do I. sheshe2 Feb 2018 #205

You mean "rein," not "reign." Sophia4 Feb 2018 #120

It's a good think you understood what I meant. BoneyardDem Feb 2018 #122

Yes. A good think. Sophia4 Feb 2018 #126

got you thinging BoneyardDem Feb 2018 #127

Ahhh! The English language. Sophia4 Feb 2018 #131

You are a hoot... sheshe2 Feb 2018 #198

I absolutely do not believe Bernie would do this. lark Feb 2018 #29

Tad Devine has Russian connections. Russia Today is a known R B Garr Feb 2018 #30

I don't think Bernie chose some of his advisors wisely. LisaM Feb 2018 #107

Agreed, they personified the combativeness and divisiveness R B Garr Feb 2018 #160

Didn't Tad Devine have business dealings in the Ukraine with the now indicted Paul Manafort? George II Feb 2018 #116

Yes, and Tad Devine had to know the Russian playbook. nt R B Garr Feb 2018 #162

I do not like Bernie at all - but I find it difficult to believe that he was involved. So my answer seaglass Feb 2018 #32

He wasnt. Its nonsense. ooky Feb 2018 #61

Yes. And its still working on a few just reading through the thread LiberalLovinLug Feb 2018 #95

At the very least this is finally one good reason the Sanders' Tax forms were never produced BoneyardDem Feb 2018 #34

I have issues with the tax forms as well but don't think it has anything to do with this. CentralMass Feb 2018 #37

many Sanders supporters would never have guessed Bernie's name would have shown up at all BoneyardDem Feb 2018 #47

There us nothig in this indictment that indicates that Sanders has any involvement in this. CentralMass Feb 2018 #56

did I say he was involved? His name is in the indictment though. Protectionism is not necesary BoneyardDem Feb 2018 #69

Why would anyone be surprised that the Russians were trying to get Trump elected. CentralMass Feb 2018 #73

That Russians were infiltrating Bernie sites is not a new revelation to Bernie supporters LiberalLovinLug Feb 2018 #102

agreed....yet so many still deny the interferance with every fiber of their being. see JPR. BoneyardDem Feb 2018 #105

I'd say the vast majority of Bernie supporters are smart enough to believe it happened. LiberalLovinLug Feb 2018 #113

Yes, you did. maryallen Feb 2018 #144

Yep, THat Tax Return Business Is A Problem Me. Feb 2018 #70

Are you say I g that his tax returns a relevant to Russians in Texas? CentralMass Feb 2018 #79

His tax returns, his vote against Russia Sanctions, his name mentioned in the indictment BoneyardDem Feb 2018 #93

+1 uponit7771 Feb 2018 #85

This message was self-deleted by its author BannonsLiver Feb 2018 #36

You are not alone in your suspicions. NurseJackie Feb 2018 #130

I doubt it Hav Feb 2018 #43

I think exploitation of Bernie's campaign is a possibility loyalsister Feb 2018 #68

Clinton lost Michigan (blacks) by a tiny percentage. It had to have been effective there. George II Feb 2018 #80

I don't believe so. John Fante Feb 2018 #81

YOUR smoking gun? Are you alleging an agenda of the OP? Eliot Rosewater Feb 2018 #86

I'm sure Putin was involved in it and his hatred for the Clintons goes back a long way elmac Feb 2018 #103

Wow! William769 Feb 2018 #27

I have 4 hides for telling the truth about BS. Wwcd Feb 2018 #35

The truth that Russians undermining Hillary to benefit of electing tRump CentralMass Feb 2018 #41

Ask Robert Mueller Wwcd Feb 2018 #46

There is nothing in that indictment indicating Bernie Sanders of having anything to do with this. CentralMass Feb 2018 #51

😎 Wwcd Feb 2018 #78

Remember, Rosenstein pointedly said "in this indictment", hinting that there will be others. George II Feb 2018 #82

Quite Me. Feb 2018 #76

and Jill Stein. triron Feb 2018 #39

Yep. nt SunSeeker Feb 2018 #99

A suggested statement for Mr. Sanders nycbos Feb 2018 #40

I doubt that hed has anything whatsoever to answer for on this matter. CentralMass Feb 2018 #45

I have to say. It is a little suspicious he voted against russian sanctions. boston bean Feb 2018 #165

Yup yup yup nycbos Feb 2018 #166

"Suspicious" indeed. I'm almost certain Tad Devine is in this up to his neck. n/t Tarheel_Dem Feb 2018 #184

Sure looks that way. Trumps smears against Hillary R B Garr Feb 2018 #211

Devine & Co were much sleazier than even Donald Trump, and that's saying something. n/t Tarheel_Dem Feb 2018 #212

Yes indeed. sheshe2 Feb 2018 #201

People in the Bernie organisation noticed this tirebiter Feb 2018 #49

No no no! moondust Feb 2018 #50

Thank you HootieMcBoob Feb 2018 #71

Of course they did! Indictments from Cha Feb 2018 #54

What? Don't tell me folks are actually surprised to read this... Blue_Tires Feb 2018 #55

The indictment does not indicate any involvement by Bernie Sanders. CentralMass Feb 2018 #59

Message auto-removed Name removed Feb 2018 #60

Would you like some pepperoni on your pizza? MelissaB Feb 2018 #62

It's so easy to bring them out of the woodwork. William769 Feb 2018 #64

Yup! Hillary and Maxine Waters. Post a positive thread about Maxine and they are on it MelissaB Feb 2018 #65

You notice that too, unconditional support of the D party is the most dangerous thing you can do Eliot Rosewater Feb 2018 #90

So those of us who were/are Hillary supporters hamsterjill Feb 2018 #75

Never fell for it Amsterdammer Feb 2018 #133

I hope that we learn from this 4now Feb 2018 #77

That is my hope also. Blue_true Feb 2018 #142

How did they vote on Russia Sanctions? TomCADem Feb 2018 #87

Now that you mention it... Eliot Rosewater Feb 2018 #89

Not surprised on either count. nt LexVegas Feb 2018 #88

Key lines from MUELLER indictment of 13 RUSSIANS accused of meddling in U.S. election Gothmog Feb 2018 #92

so the fears that this lets Trump off the hook....shouldn't be a pearl clutching issue at this time? BoneyardDem Feb 2018 #96

It's Mueller Time!!! bluescribbler Feb 2018 #97

Right on time. malthaussen Feb 2018 #98

Conspiracy. Not collusion. Conspiracy. Hekate Feb 2018 #104

This is huge! mcar Feb 2018 #108

It's because Sanders and Trump had immigrant parents from Europe IronLionZion Feb 2018 #109

Attention DUers! Infighting on Aisle 12! Everybody join in!!1!1!! klook Feb 2018 #112

But but the DNC... tenderfoot Feb 2018 #119

Post removed Post removed Feb 2018 #123

That's "delusional" and what is really delusional is that you just repeated a Russian meme stevenleser Feb 2018 #161

Get the fuck outta here with your bullshit. nt Codeine Feb 2018 #167

I guess that's one way to frame the narrative. bluedigger Feb 2018 #124

Donald Trump, Bernie Sanders, and Jill Stein all appear to have been helped by Russian election Cha Feb 2018 #128

Bernie won most of his support based on his own views, didnt need Russias help. Bluepinky Feb 2018 #221

Millions were Inspired by Hilary.. way more Cha Feb 2018 #222

Nope, Russia wasnt helping Bernie, they were trying to hurt Hillary. Bluepinky Feb 2018 #224

Millions more were Inspired by Hillary. Cha Feb 2018 #226

At least Bernie didn't take most of the bait. athenasatanjesus Feb 2018 #129

I see the Bernie Bashers are out in force hueymahl Feb 2018 #132

What did I just post that's not true? RandySF Feb 2018 #135

I was not referring to you or your OP. NT hueymahl Feb 2018 #138

some posters had previously garnered many "hides" for speaking out on Bernie BoneyardDem Feb 2018 #137

Considering how often I got swarmed Codeine Feb 2018 #169

Where are the Sanders' tax returns? Why didn't they release them? yardwork Feb 2018 #217

I know, they jump at any excuse to throw Bernie under the bus. Bluepinky Feb 2018 #219

Gee who knew? ismnotwasm Feb 2018 #136

I am shocked, shocked I tell you! tammywammy Feb 2018 #159

Mueller's strategic flanking move around conservative swamp colluders. ffr Feb 2018 #164

DU rec...nt SidDithers Feb 2018 #183

Sanders candidacy was always about keeping Hillary from having an easy path to the White House Renew Deal Feb 2018 #202

that's true, and is a favorite of the Corp media to do too...never take the lefty JCanete Feb 2018 #230

Exciting as it SOUNDS, I'm having trouble understanding what exactly is the CRIME? mr_lebowski Feb 2018 #208

I hope paranoia doesn't become the ruling element in our Party. jalan48 Feb 2018 #210

Paranoia is what I saw on DU in 2016. This is fresh air. yardwork Feb 2018 #238

Good BlueDog22 Feb 2018 #223