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Jim Lane

(11,175 posts)
18. My point is that gun makers DON'T get special protection --
Wed Feb 21, 2018, 11:53 AM
Feb 2018

Last edited Thu Feb 22, 2018, 01:19 PM - Edit history (1)

at least, not in the sense that's being incorrectly assumed by many DUers.

The general statement: A corporation (call it Manufacturer) produces a Product which a person (call him or her Tortfeasor) uses in such a way as to injure another person (Victim). It's not a case where Product had a defect (an auto ignition that occasionally turns itself on, or a gun that can be fired even with the safety engaged). Instead, the injury occurred solely because of Tortfeasor's negligence or intent to harm Victim.

On those facts, should Manufacturer be liable to Victim because Product played a role in the injury?

Under current law, the answer to that question is No, regardless of whether Product was a gun or an automobile (or, for that matter, a bathtub).

Some people here want to answer that question Yes if Product was a gun but No for all (or almost all) other Products. People advocating those policies are the ones seeking special treatment of gun manufacturers. The PLCAA was enacted because people with that point of view were bringing numerous lawsuits, trying to use the courts to accomplish what they could not accomplish through legislation.

That doesn't mean the PLCAA is perfect. It's hardly news -- and hardly unique to the gun issue -- that, when a statute is enacted to address one situation, lawyers facing different situations set to work and try to find loopholes, ambiguities, questionable interpretations, unintended consequences, etc. It's quite possible that the PLCAA should be tightened up to deal with some such cases. The hypothetical you raise, about a cosmetic change that improves safety at little or no cost, might be an example. The basic point of PLCAA, however, is sound: Pending the enactment of sensible gun control legislation (which I favor), gun manufacturers should not be singled out for liability just because someone misuses one of their products.

You write, "You were quick to point out how inaccurate the post you responded to was, then fail to explain your point entirely." You're quite correct. I couldn't explain my point entirely and said so: "Without my giving you a complete treatise on products liability -- and there are entire books on the subject...." If you want a more thorough exposition of the law of products liability, the New York State Bar Association is offering a two-volume treatise with a total of 1,175 pages. Of course, that's just as to New York law. To analyze legislation with nationwide impact, I'd need to do further reading to take account of differences among the states. Then I'd have to try to summarize my findings in a DU-post-sized message. Sorry, but I'll have to pass.

Recommendations

0 members have recommended this reply (displayed in chronological order):

Because the sole purpose of their product is to kill. Wwcd Feb 2018 #1
We should start suing them as a public health and safety issue BigmanPigman Feb 2018 #2
Didn't Ikea get sued for dressers that tipped over? BoneyardDem Feb 2018 #21
There is a diff according to the GOP BigmanPigman Feb 2018 #33
Weren't the cigarette companies held liable for lung cancer? Good idea for sure. Kajun Gal Feb 2018 #3
They were sued for lying and manipulating nicotine levels hack89 Feb 2018 #9
Gun manufacturers could install safety devices, limit magazine size, etc. But they dont, Hoyt Feb 2018 #4
Also, Like Opioid Manufacturers, They Are Enjoying Record Profits... TomCADem Feb 2018 #5
Exactly. There are plenty of grounds to sue them, beyond product defects. That's why gun profiteers Hoyt Feb 2018 #6
"Obama is going to take away your guns!" krispos42 Feb 2018 #40
Then pass a law mandating such features. Jim Lane Feb 2018 #10
Car manufacturers have been sued for not doing things that improve safety. Hoyt Feb 2018 #11
It Is Legal To Sue. This is Why Gun Makers Asked for Immunity TomCADem Feb 2018 #13
Your statement of products liability law is not accurate. Jim Lane Feb 2018 #14
I Thought Tort Law Is Often Understoood... TomCADem Feb 2018 #15
You're incorrectly assuming that the law creates "an absolute immunity for gun manufacturers" Jim Lane Feb 2018 #19
If all manufacturers liability are the same, then why do gun corporations get special protection? kcr Feb 2018 #17
My point is that gun makers DON'T get special protection -- Jim Lane Feb 2018 #18
I want my 50 state survey! hardluck Feb 2018 #34
Oh, so you don't care about gun violence victims in the District of Columbia? (n/t) Jim Lane Feb 2018 #37
"One of the Nazis in Charlottesville used his car to murder Heather Heyer...... BoneyardDem Feb 2018 #22
A manufacturer -- of cars, or guns, or furniture -- can be held liable for design defects Jim Lane Feb 2018 #25
NRA is marketing guns for kids. The Cricket gun. If said child kills self or others with said Fred Sanders Feb 2018 #26
The answer is legislated standards, not litigation Jim Lane Feb 2018 #27
Needing a license is a red herring. The point is the NRA is manufacturing Fred Sanders Feb 2018 #28
You're simply repeating your false premise. Jim Lane Feb 2018 #29
"Gun shop" not in my post. Gun manufacturer of kids guns is...anything on that? Fred Sanders Feb 2018 #30
This seems to me to relate to selling, not manufacturing. Jim Lane Feb 2018 #32
Here's an example hardluck Feb 2018 #35
Magazines are generally made by 3rd parties. Calista241 Feb 2018 #31
because their products aren't killing or injuring people.... aikoaiko Feb 2018 #7
Seems Like Another Neoliberal Protect Gun Makers Talking Point... TomCADem Feb 2018 #41
Shouldn't General Motors be liable if one of their Trucks is intentionally driven into a crowd? nt aka-chmeee Feb 2018 #8
Was something wrong with your other thread about the exact same thing? EX500rider Feb 2018 #12
Didn't get the purity he wanted, perhaps? n/t X_Digger Feb 2018 #38
The same reason I cant sue Coors if I get killed by a drunk driver. Nt USALiberal Feb 2018 #16
Is there a federal law banning such lawsuits? TomCADem Feb 2018 #20
That is not accurate. NCTraveler Feb 2018 #24
Because it would limit the number of guns available. NCTraveler Feb 2018 #23
Guns have more rights than people. TheSmarterDog Feb 2018 #36
They do, and they are. krispos42 Feb 2018 #39
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