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missingm

(89 posts)

37. "People" refers to the whole, not every single individual

Sun Feb 25, 2018, 02:22 PM

Feb 2018

It is nuts to think that every single individual has a right to arm himself with whatever weapons they want.

Once you recognize the "People" as a group and not an individual, their "shall not be infringed" argument goes out the window. Taking guns away from someone on probable cause is not an infringement on the rights of the "People" and does no harm to the security of the state, much less a well regulated militia.

He'll, the gun nuts want to force states to allow citizens of other states conceal carry. How is that for security?

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Need help countering my gun nut brother in law on the 2nd amendment [View all] johnpowdy Feb 2018 OP

There are no provisions in the Constitution for fighting against the government HAB911 Feb 2018 #1

Exactly. AJT Feb 2018 #3

Thanks I will mention this johnpowdy Feb 2018 #4

Mention Article I section 8 clause 15 jberryhill Feb 2018 #11

Exactly pandr32 Feb 2018 #13

"A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State,..." aikoaiko Feb 2018 #16

Yes it is. "State" by definition means an organized collective that is considered the leading Blue_true Feb 2018 #28

yes, an organized collective that is considered the leading entity, (e.g., not i.e., government). aikoaiko Feb 2018 #31

You dance around flames well, Grasshopper. Blue_true Feb 2018 #40

OK. aikoaiko Feb 2018 #56

LOL, try that in a court of law HAB911 Feb 2018 #30

Depends on whose court. aikoaiko Feb 2018 #33

Not a court of sovereign citizens HAB911 Feb 2018 #34

Depends who wins. aikoaiko Feb 2018 #36

The scholarship on the issue suggests that free state in the 18th context meant a nation free... Marengo Feb 2018 #44

Perhaps one day we get the chance to test your scholarship HAB911 Feb 2018 #60

The nice thing about Facebook MichMary Feb 2018 #2

Precisely Sherman A1 Feb 2018 #15

so your brother likes mercuryblues Feb 2018 #5

I wouldn't bother to argue because there's no way to persuade someone The Velveteen Ocelot Feb 2018 #6

He has a point hack89 Feb 2018 #7

So you are talking about society breaking down. Blue_true Feb 2018 #32

Perhaps hack89 Feb 2018 #71

You are wasting your time jberryhill Feb 2018 #8

You are both right to a degree. aikoaiko Feb 2018 #9

Please don't share this here backtoblue Feb 2018 #10

Indeed, repeating lame talking points of gunners, again? And asking for a response seems like a Fred Sanders Feb 2018 #39

Very tedious ChubbyStar Feb 2018 #72

No government establishes a bill of rights so that its people can take down the government. MaryMagdaline Feb 2018 #12

Ask him if he supports... DetlefK Feb 2018 #14

That's a good one. Didn't think of that johnpowdy Feb 2018 #17

Yeah, that should make his head explode. dhol82 Feb 2018 #18

Suggest he seek psychiatric help. I bet he checks under his bed every night for foreigners. Vinca Feb 2018 #19

And have him ask for the NRA discount TheCowsCameHome Feb 2018 #22

ask where his cave is Fresh_Start Feb 2018 #20

Armed Drones n/t hlthe2b Feb 2018 #21

Tell him the last time the military opened fire on its citizens Downtown Hound Feb 2018 #23

Ask him if he read the second ammendment... LakeArenal Feb 2018 #24

It doesn't even say 'private gun ownership' it says 'keep and bear arms' ... 95% of 'arms' in 1780's mr_lebowski Feb 2018 #38

Tell him. Blue_true Feb 2018 #25

Don't respond/argue with him on this topic at all. Move on to something else or leave. Lil Missy Feb 2018 #26

Here's what I would ask him: onenote Feb 2018 #27

The reason we haven't defeated people in caves in places like Afghanistan? Ohioboy Feb 2018 #29

Exactly. Anyone who thinks we couldn't have destroyed the Taliban or Al Qaeda or ISIS completely mr_lebowski Feb 2018 #41

Pull the other one, its got bells on chumpchange Feb 2018 #52

Well, not Vietnam that was a long time ago ... but the rest? Yup ... mr_lebowski Feb 2018 #66

So you are ignoring chumpchange Feb 2018 #67

Would those ROE be lifted if fought on US soil? NickB79 Feb 2018 #50

I'm not assuming anything Ohioboy Feb 2018 #57

Understood NickB79 Feb 2018 #59

I agree with you. Ohioboy Feb 2018 #63

ignore him Takket Feb 2018 #35

"People" refers to the whole, not every single individual missingm Feb 2018 #37

Conflict with the 1st Amendment - "right of the people peaceably to assemble" hexola Feb 2018 #42

in all seriousness D_Master81 Feb 2018 #43

Welcome to DU GulfCoast66 Feb 2018 #45

The present gunowners would not be on the side of the people if the need arose to defend ourselves.. kentuck Feb 2018 #46

Good one. I responded and am waiting for his response. johnpowdy Feb 2018 #47

Bingo. NickB79 Feb 2018 #55

I think you are right to counter your brother on this. Ohioboy Feb 2018 #48

AR-15 in action: sarisataka Feb 2018 #49

That's disgusting. hunter Feb 2018 #51

It is certainly outdated. The supporters of the 2nd still believe its the 1800s or something johnpowdy Feb 2018 #53

By the same token chumpchange Feb 2018 #54

Wow stupid comparison n/t johnpowdy Feb 2018 #58

Really? chumpchange Feb 2018 #61

Doesn't matter johnpowdy Feb 2018 #62

Not the British chumpchange Feb 2018 #68

Let's bring back slavery! It's God's will! hunter Feb 2018 #69

Sorry, your brother is correct about guerrilla warfare. former9thward Feb 2018 #64

He is probably correct Calculating Feb 2018 #65

All rights have limits ollie10 Feb 2018 #70

Locking.... DonViejo Feb 2018 #73