General Discussion

Straw Man

(6,942 posts)

155. Greatly increased?

Mon Feb 26, 2018, 02:17 AM

Feb 2018

Bump stocks give a 50% increase in firing rate. Full-auto gives a 200% increase. And here you are trying to pretend they're the same thing.

Tragedy is tragedy, and grief is grief. Misinformation is misinformation, and you don't get to hide it behind somebody else's grief and tragedy. You do those people no service by posting falsehoods.

Spare us indeed.

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I just want one gun nut explain to me why the 2nd Amendment overrides the right to life [View all] liberal N proud Feb 2018 OP

Recommended. guillaumeb Feb 2018 #1

Simple. ProudLib72 Feb 2018 #2

But if there wasn't such easy access, there wouldn't need to be the mass ownership liberal N proud Feb 2018 #19

I didn't say it was a good explanation ProudLib72 Feb 2018 #31

You are so right. There is not a way to win. Remember War Games? bitterross Feb 2018 #100

That "alternate weapons" argument is a total non-starter. BobTheSubgenius Feb 2018 #110

And similarly, we now know that standard bullet wounds forgotmylogin Feb 2018 #125

One time I tried to board a plane with a hammer in my carryon ProudLib72 Feb 2018 #129

What is a "standard bullet wound"? Straw Man Feb 2018 #145

How many times does a "deer rifle" fire before reloading? forgotmylogin Feb 2018 #179

It varies and is totally irrelevant to the discussion at hand. Straw Man Feb 2018 #182

Clearing away your Straw Man + Reductio Ad Absurdum argument forgotmylogin Feb 2018 #183

I simply stated facts -- no "straw" and no "reductio." Straw Man Feb 2018 #184

You do realize that thousands of people a week... krispos42 Feb 2018 #32

Easy access to guns is 225 years old quartz007 Feb 2018 #41

Well, guns didn't protect all those kids in Florida last week, did they? PoindexterOglethorpe Feb 2018 #59

Read my response #31. You're getting angry at the wrong person. ProudLib72 Feb 2018 #88

agree with you. Apparently the armed guard had no effect on the outcome at all. demigoddess Feb 2018 #230

Why not use a taser or baseball bat or dog? There is no need for this eye for an eye mentality. LonePirate Feb 2018 #177

KnR GP6971 Feb 2018 #3

Because the white Jesus ordained gun rights. Hoyt Feb 2018 #4

In a plutocracy thbobby Feb 2018 #5

The mere keeping and bearing of arms does not interfere with your right to life, etc. aikoaiko Feb 2018 #6

30,000+ people a year would disagree. TheSmarterDog Feb 2018 #9

Someone has to pull the trigger or otherwise discharge the firearms to kill someone. aikoaiko Feb 2018 #28

But, it makes it a hell of a lot easier. TheSmarterDog Feb 2018 #36

How do we confiscate guns from law-breakers? quartz007 Feb 2018 #44

Perhaps 'The Whisky Rebellion' solution is needed. GoneOffShore Feb 2018 #57

Crack-Cocaine is illegal, so are heroin, quartz007 Feb 2018 #69

Bless your heart. I love those talking points. GoneOffShore Feb 2018 #85

Well there you go discntnt_irny_srcsm Feb 2018 #90

Facts are now called talking points? quartz007 Feb 2018 #94

You're arguing that just because people disobey laws that there shouldn't be laws. GoneOffShore Feb 2018 #122

Read post #109 before you reach conclusions quartz007 Feb 2018 #139

No. Straw Man Feb 2018 #146

I get so tired of this fucking shit. We don't have to reinvent the wheel... Ferrets are Cool Feb 2018 #124

LOL your problem is lack of facts quartz007 Feb 2018 #132

You're in the wrong place if you want to promote guns Ferrets are Cool Feb 2018 #180

Huh? quartz007 Feb 2018 #197

Same's true for the other things. Igel Feb 2018 #107

You don't have a use for a gun hack89 Feb 2018 #175

20,000 or so of those don't interfere with your right to anything as they are suicides. EX500rider Feb 2018 #73

And the people mental health regulations/cooldown periods would protect the most. moriah Feb 2018 #111

Thank you all. You are great friends. raging moderate Feb 2018 #126

That's good.. EX500rider Feb 2018 #137

Yet firearm suicides are among the most fatal of methods. moriah Feb 2018 #178

Generally the ones who don't succeed weren't really trying. More a cry for help/attention EX500rider Feb 2018 #187

Well, even among women pretty serious (like, still nameless) poisoning or OD... moriah Feb 2018 #189

Tell that to the dead! liberal N proud Feb 2018 #20

There needs to be an additional step(s) for gun violence to occur. aikoaiko Feb 2018 #26

Why is the "well regulated militia" part of the 2nd Amendment left out? brush Feb 2018 #38

2nd Amendment could be abolished today, quartz007 Feb 2018 #46

Making automatic or semi-auto attachments illegal will help though. brush Feb 2018 #50

Agreed 100% quartz007 Feb 2018 #71

School officers with weapons to match the crazies is fine with me but arming and training... brush Feb 2018 #76

Some Teachers in Missouri are already armed quartz007 Feb 2018 #91

Gun-free zones, huh? Sounds like a gun humper buzz word IMO. brush Feb 2018 #97

Obviously you have not read all my posts.. quartz007 Feb 2018 #109

Ok. We're mostly on the same page. #7 is iffy to me though. brush Feb 2018 #131

As they say, quartz007 Feb 2018 #133

Its not. The people keep and bear arms from which a militia can be drawn. aikoaiko Feb 2018 #52

Yeah, another way to weasel out of the intent of the 2nd written when single shot... brush Feb 2018 #58

Not important? Seems very important in light of all the crazies out there blasting people... brush Feb 2018 #65

They don't like that part Bettie Feb 2018 #62

It's not...but SCOTUS has ruled that the prefatory clause doesn't negate the AncientGeezer Feb 2018 #82

Would a less wordy definition be pretzeling to allow gun nuts free reign, or even simpler... brush Feb 2018 #89

Would President Obama' words work for you? AncientGeezer Feb 2018 #95

See my post 97. The 2nd Amendment desperately needs amending. Not abolishment mind you. brush Feb 2018 #99

Start the process....I was a kid in school when we tried to get the ERA passed.. AncientGeezer Feb 2018 #104

No need for snark. If it needs fixing it needs fixing. And you and I both know it does. brush Feb 2018 #106

I do NOT know ANY part of the BoR's need fixing.... AncientGeezer Feb 2018 #112

The Bill of Rights improved the Constitution, which kinda leads to the thought that if... brush Feb 2018 #118

You can't back your claim with ANY supporting source... AncientGeezer Feb 2018 #140

Here's this video. AGAIN. brush Feb 2018 #142

Not a bump stock..NOT an AR-15 read the description AncientGeezer Feb 2018 #174

Did you listen? The guy says it's an AR-15 and he's using the bump fire method. brush Feb 2018 #186

NOBODY says ANYTHING in that video...did you read the "ballons" AncientGeezer Feb 2018 #198

Here you go. But the whole point is there is no need for civilians to have this or variants. Agreed? brush Feb 2018 #202

That's a 9mm pistol....and not a bump stock....because it's a pistol. AncientGeezer Feb 2018 #203

Ahhh...what about my point that those weapons and VARIANTS with near-automatic... brush Feb 2018 #204

Wasn't in the hands of the Fl asswipe...In Vegas it prooved to be ineffective... AncientGeezer Feb 2018 #225

they won't explain how their fear overrides common sense Skittles Feb 2018 #7

It doesn't hack89 Feb 2018 #8

Militia only. Plus any RATIONAL person would draw a distinction Eliot Rosewater Feb 2018 #10

The Supreme Court begs to disagree n/t MichMary Feb 2018 #12

Your quoting the GOD DAMN Scallia bullshit decision? Eliot Rosewater Feb 2018 #24

No, I'm telling you MichMary Feb 2018 #27

Absolutely nothing stopping an AWB right now. The 2A is not the issue hack89 Feb 2018 #14

And a "well-regulated militia," specifically. n/t pnwmom Feb 2018 #56

Irrelavant... AncientGeezer Feb 2018 #84

Because the 2nd Amendment has been cherry picked liberal N proud Feb 2018 #21

It allows very strict regulation hack89 Feb 2018 #29

Public support is there! Its politicians who are too easily bought by the NRA who dont care... bettyellen Feb 2018 #63

Not really hack89 Feb 2018 #74

Who is it that elects those politicians? discntnt_irny_srcsm Feb 2018 #79

They dont pay attention to the fine points of policy. Many do not. bettyellen Feb 2018 #93

With over 20 years of momentum, why is that? discntnt_irny_srcsm Feb 2018 #176

more blather about how complicated it is to regulate at all. LOL. You need a new script. bettyellen Feb 2018 #191

And back at you discntnt_irny_srcsm Feb 2018 #192

Sensible regulation has never been more popular- and its this NRA nonsense that tries bettyellen Feb 2018 #193

Not really. Straw Man Feb 2018 #149

So that they have a two pronged approach matters why? They are the horses pulling the cart... bettyellen Feb 2018 #156

Life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness MichMary Feb 2018 #11

Hyperbole? Fascism? LuckyCharms Feb 2018 #13

Here's one example: MichMary Feb 2018 #16

Yeah I read it and see nothing wrong with it. LuckyCharms Feb 2018 #17

Okay MichMary Feb 2018 #23

So what. LuckyCharms Feb 2018 #25

Some people are biting at any bait sarisataka Feb 2018 #34

LOL! n/t MichMary Feb 2018 #37

I'll help you out... Baconator Feb 2018 #55

No need for help. LuckyCharms Feb 2018 #60

I'm saying that demonization, hyperbole and broad brush attacks... Baconator Feb 2018 #66

First, It's not hyperbole when people are getting ripped apart. LuckyCharms Feb 2018 #72

I'll frame it like this then... Baconator Feb 2018 #81

Worse than it will work with the LuckyCharms Feb 2018 #83

You know this question can apply to abortion as well. Motownman78 Feb 2018 #15

Except that if a woman has an abortion, it doesn't result in the deaths PoindexterOglethorpe Feb 2018 #64

That is true, but a lot of Motownman78 Feb 2018 #75

but a lot of people are dumd as fuck see trump ./.. stonecutter357 Feb 2018 #80

By that logic, jerking off wipes out entire potential civilizations Major Nikon Feb 2018 #101

Those people are ignorant meddlers in other people's lives. PoindexterOglethorpe Feb 2018 #231

You don't see the irony in this.. AncientGeezer Feb 2018 #236

Those who put restrictions on abortion PoindexterOglethorpe Feb 2018 #240

Actually the phrase "life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness" doesn't appear in the Constitution mythology Feb 2018 #18

Red Dawn got only marginal reviews as a movie. discntnt_irny_srcsm Feb 2018 #86

I'm not a gun nut, and you're not looking for an actual answer, but I'll give you one... brooklynite Feb 2018 #22

You're ignoring the "well regulated militia" part of the right to bear arms. brush Feb 2018 #45

...which the Supreme Court has already dismissed. brooklynite Feb 2018 #53

Dismissed how? Now SCOTUS is dismissing part of the Constitution? brush Feb 2018 #61

2008: DC vs. Heller brooklynite Feb 2018 #68

Where's the automatic or semi-auto converted to auto part of that decision? brush Feb 2018 #70

Not the issue in the case, and not the original question... brooklynite Feb 2018 #77

Smack of Scaliaism to me. Don't you agree? brush Feb 2018 #78

America drew that line in 1934 with the National Firearms Act (NFA) hack89 Feb 2018 #205

How about the way so many who defend the 2nd Amendment PoindexterOglethorpe Feb 2018 #67

When a person is shot dead all their rights have been stripped. boston bean Feb 2018 #96

So, because you could hit the person with a car, those should be banned as well? brooklynite Feb 2018 #98

Just stop it. A car is not a machine manufactured for the purpose of killing humans. boston bean Feb 2018 #103

Trucks are now weapon of choice by terrorists quartz007 Feb 2018 #113

Does Mack truck make special models to better run over people with? boston bean Feb 2018 #114

+++++ sheshe2 Feb 2018 #130

Were it true, it would still have fuck-all to do with the point being discussed. Nice dodge though. X_Digger Feb 2018 #115

It doesn't sarisataka Feb 2018 #30

Not a nut 2left4u Feb 2018 #33

Doncha know? MichMary Feb 2018 #39

Are you writing the victim's families yet? LuckyCharms Feb 2018 #40

Yeah, well, MichMary Feb 2018 #42

You seem to be evading my question. LuckyCharms Feb 2018 #43

Not evading anything MichMary Feb 2018 #47

Oh I see! LuckyCharms Feb 2018 #49

Would you accept President Obama's view on the 2a? AncientGeezer Feb 2018 #108

No. n/t LuckyCharms Feb 2018 #141

LOL. Common sense regulation and closing the loopholes are fair. Unless you want to arm felons and bettyellen Feb 2018 #194

Wrong MichMary Feb 2018 #195

The NRA is pushing to arm the masses with less regulation than ever. They support bettyellen Feb 2018 #196

You can source that I'm sure..."They support maniacs, terrorists and gun manufacturers AncientGeezer Feb 2018 #226

They literally want it easier for the mentally ill to get guns, harder for the govt to backround bettyellen Feb 2018 #229

"...easier for the mentally ill to get guns"...a widely spread falsehood. AncientGeezer Feb 2018 #232

Sorry if you hate all restrictions- but youre provng my point. Some people should not have guns. bettyellen Feb 2018 #235

"...wonder why nothing was done about it. "...No, that's on that a'hole. Doesn't bother me. AncientGeezer Feb 2018 #237

And it does say the right to bear arms should be in a well regulated militia, not in the... brush Feb 2018 #48

No it really says no such thing... AncientGeezer Feb 2018 #87

So you're saying that the intent of the founding fathers was not bearing arms in the confines... brush Feb 2018 #92

"...of a well regulated militia" ..I'm saying EXACTLY that... AncientGeezer Feb 2018 #102

What do you think the Las Vegas killer used? And why avoid the question of amending the 2nd? brush Feb 2018 #105

He used a bump stock....DID NOT make his semi auto into an automatic. AncientGeezer Feb 2018 #116

You're woefully uninformed. The bump stock is what converted his AR-15s to automatic. brush Feb 2018 #123

Bump stock does NOT convert a semi into an automatic. It's uninformed to say so. AncientGeezer Feb 2018 #134

Here you go. Now tell me that isn't automatic. Uninformed yet again. brush Feb 2018 #135

You didn't read the discription of your YouTube vid did you? AncientGeezer Feb 2018 #136

Bump stocks convert them to automatic. If you claim it's something else then you've... brush Feb 2018 #144

Not technically, no. Straw Man Feb 2018 #153

Oh please. You think the relatives of the dead are arguing that they're dead but technically... brush Feb 2018 #154

Greatly increased? Straw Man Feb 2018 #155

You're arguing whether it's 50% v 200% increase rate of fire? brush Feb 2018 #157

Yes. Perhaps you didn't understand me. Straw Man Feb 2018 #158

How do you measure full auto. How many rounds per minute is that? brush Feb 2018 #159

Full-auto is achieved by an automatic sear. Straw Man Feb 2018 #160

You're missing the boat. The video doesn't show what you call technically automatic fire... brush Feb 2018 #163

No bump stock in that video. I've already explained that. Straw Man Feb 2018 #165

Give it a rest, man. Technicality or not the real point is barring access to such weapons... brush Feb 2018 #167

And if you could define "such weapons" ... Straw Man Feb 2018 #168

No thanks. Not worth it. brush Feb 2018 #170

So you want to advocate for laws ... Straw Man Feb 2018 #172

So bump firing with that stock is not tecnically using a bump stock? brush Feb 2018 #169

There is NO STOCK on that weapon. Straw Man Feb 2018 #171

You're actually arguing that this is only a 50% increase in the rate of fire? brush Feb 2018 #161

Moving the goalposts again? Straw Man Feb 2018 #162

He says right in the video that it's call bump firing. brush Feb 2018 #164

Right. And it can be done without a bump stock. Straw Man Feb 2018 #166

Per current law and ATF doctrine, yagotme Feb 2018 #119

Videos on YouTube are easily accessed showing converted AR-15s firing automatically. brush Feb 2018 #127

Poor research....that's an M-4 variant NOT an AR AncientGeezer Feb 2018 #138

It says rignt on the video that it's an AR-15. Nice try though. brush Feb 2018 #143

And it also says this. Straw Man Feb 2018 #147

Stop the bs denials. I live in Vegas. The killer left behind multipe AR-15s and bump stocks... brush Feb 2018 #148

And the video you posted shows neither an AR-15 nor a bump stock. Straw Man Feb 2018 #151

They do it all the time on the thumbnails...for hits. AncientGeezer Feb 2018 #173

I thought research meant yagotme Feb 2018 #181

What's this then? brush Feb 2018 #185

A fully auto M-4 varianat. Noveske Rifleworks N-4 10.5" CQB(not AR-15) AncientGeezer Feb 2018 #200

Try this brush Feb 2018 #201

The point is variants are available to civilians. Are you in agreement that those variants... brush Feb 2018 #209

NO they are NOT.."209. The point is variants are available to civilians. AncientGeezer Feb 2018 #215

My question is do you agree that the variants and devices that make them near-auto should be... brush Feb 2018 #216

Your premise is wrong...your vids are NOT AR's or variants. I told you that a couple days ago. AncientGeezer Feb 2018 #219

Go to the "Las Vegas Journal Review's" web site. You'll find all the stories they did on the bump... brush Feb 2018 #228

No...but I'll bet my cats treat budget for a yr...none of them say AncientGeezer Feb 2018 #234

Go back to your right wing sites. You're no help. brush Feb 2018 #238

Are you helpful posting videos that do NOT in any way support your claims? AncientGeezer Feb 2018 #242

If you notice, there is no bump stock on that "pistol". yagotme Feb 2018 #206

Fine. The point is these near-auto capable weapons should not be available to civilians like... brush Feb 2018 #208

No. yagotme Feb 2018 #210

So nothing should be done to curtail the mass shootings? We continue to let mentally-disturbed... brush Feb 2018 #211

Well, the last shooting, yagotme Feb 2018 #212

I want effective measures taken. What about the Australia model, or limiting the size of magazines? brush Feb 2018 #213

We are NEVER going to have your "Australia model" ..confiscation. AncientGeezer Feb 2018 #217

Finally something positive. So you're on board with limiting magazine capacity with new purchases? brush Feb 2018 #218

NOBODY that owns a 30rd mag will turn them in...as I said above... AncientGeezer Feb 2018 #220

Something postive pls. Why automatically go to nothing can be done? brush Feb 2018 #221

I support the BoR's, ALL of them....I don't see your poorly informed wishes as a positive AncientGeezer Feb 2018 #223

Give suggestions not insults. No one's trying to infringe on rights, just looking for positive... brush Feb 2018 #227

You most certainly are trying to infringe on rights...and using AncientGeezer Feb 2018 #239

Boring. Go back to your right wing sites. You're no help. brush Feb 2018 #241

This message was self-deleted by its author AncientGeezer Feb 2018 #243

HUMAN ERRORS WERE MADE!!!! yagotme Mar 2018 #244

Pls go back to your winger site. brush Mar 2018 #245

Hope you're not making personal attacks, now... yagotme Mar 2018 #246

Yep...as could have been the Texas Church slaughter... AncientGeezer Feb 2018 #224

Out of curiosity, how does your right to a gun accomplish that? brooklynite Feb 2018 #54

I wanted to post this but could not figure out how to say so simply. we can do it Feb 2018 #35

Just because the Declaration of Independence was written first... Baconator Feb 2018 #51

Didnt you know they have an alternative Constitution? It's like alternative facts. Amaryllis Feb 2018 #117

Why mass shootings don't convince gun owners to support gun control IronLionZion Feb 2018 #120

becuz Benghazi....... lastlib Feb 2018 #121

Because they are not mutually exclusive Lee-Lee Feb 2018 #128

This is it... Baconator Feb 2018 #150

Simple. Your rights do not extend to depriving others of their rights. Azathoth Feb 2018 #152

Message auto-removed Name removed Feb 2018 #188

But yet we have so many deprived of their right to live at the hand of a gun. liberal N proud Feb 2018 #190

It's because pressbox69 Feb 2018 #199

Great post. I knew they would come. Kingofalldems Feb 2018 #207

To several million gun nuts DFW Feb 2018 #214

It says so in the Gun Nut Bible, don't you know? Initech Feb 2018 #222

Because 2 is greater than 1 Mr. Ected Feb 2018 #233