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Straw Man

(6,942 posts)

162. Moving the goalposts again?

Mon Feb 26, 2018, 03:23 AM

Feb 2018

We were talking about bump stocks, remember? He doesn't have a bump stock on that rifle -- in fact, he has no stock at all. He's bump-firing using the sling -- an older technique, and not easy to master. And it's a 9mm variant of an AR, not a .223. See this post:

https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=10291392

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I just want one gun nut explain to me why the 2nd Amendment overrides the right to life [View all] liberal N proud Feb 2018 OP

Recommended. guillaumeb Feb 2018 #1

Simple. ProudLib72 Feb 2018 #2

But if there wasn't such easy access, there wouldn't need to be the mass ownership liberal N proud Feb 2018 #19

I didn't say it was a good explanation ProudLib72 Feb 2018 #31

You are so right. There is not a way to win. Remember War Games? bitterross Feb 2018 #100

That "alternate weapons" argument is a total non-starter. BobTheSubgenius Feb 2018 #110

And similarly, we now know that standard bullet wounds forgotmylogin Feb 2018 #125

One time I tried to board a plane with a hammer in my carryon ProudLib72 Feb 2018 #129

What is a "standard bullet wound"? Straw Man Feb 2018 #145

How many times does a "deer rifle" fire before reloading? forgotmylogin Feb 2018 #179

It varies and is totally irrelevant to the discussion at hand. Straw Man Feb 2018 #182

Clearing away your Straw Man + Reductio Ad Absurdum argument forgotmylogin Feb 2018 #183

I simply stated facts -- no "straw" and no "reductio." Straw Man Feb 2018 #184

You do realize that thousands of people a week... krispos42 Feb 2018 #32

Easy access to guns is 225 years old quartz007 Feb 2018 #41

Well, guns didn't protect all those kids in Florida last week, did they? PoindexterOglethorpe Feb 2018 #59

Read my response #31. You're getting angry at the wrong person. ProudLib72 Feb 2018 #88

agree with you. Apparently the armed guard had no effect on the outcome at all. demigoddess Feb 2018 #230

Why not use a taser or baseball bat or dog? There is no need for this eye for an eye mentality. LonePirate Feb 2018 #177

KnR GP6971 Feb 2018 #3

Because the white Jesus ordained gun rights. Hoyt Feb 2018 #4

In a plutocracy thbobby Feb 2018 #5

The mere keeping and bearing of arms does not interfere with your right to life, etc. aikoaiko Feb 2018 #6

30,000+ people a year would disagree. TheSmarterDog Feb 2018 #9

Someone has to pull the trigger or otherwise discharge the firearms to kill someone. aikoaiko Feb 2018 #28

But, it makes it a hell of a lot easier. TheSmarterDog Feb 2018 #36

How do we confiscate guns from law-breakers? quartz007 Feb 2018 #44

Perhaps 'The Whisky Rebellion' solution is needed. GoneOffShore Feb 2018 #57

Crack-Cocaine is illegal, so are heroin, quartz007 Feb 2018 #69

Bless your heart. I love those talking points. GoneOffShore Feb 2018 #85

Well there you go discntnt_irny_srcsm Feb 2018 #90

Facts are now called talking points? quartz007 Feb 2018 #94

You're arguing that just because people disobey laws that there shouldn't be laws. GoneOffShore Feb 2018 #122

Read post #109 before you reach conclusions quartz007 Feb 2018 #139

No. Straw Man Feb 2018 #146

I get so tired of this fucking shit. We don't have to reinvent the wheel... Ferrets are Cool Feb 2018 #124

LOL your problem is lack of facts quartz007 Feb 2018 #132

You're in the wrong place if you want to promote guns Ferrets are Cool Feb 2018 #180

Huh? quartz007 Feb 2018 #197

Same's true for the other things. Igel Feb 2018 #107

You don't have a use for a gun hack89 Feb 2018 #175

20,000 or so of those don't interfere with your right to anything as they are suicides. EX500rider Feb 2018 #73

And the people mental health regulations/cooldown periods would protect the most. moriah Feb 2018 #111

Thank you all. You are great friends. raging moderate Feb 2018 #126

That's good.. EX500rider Feb 2018 #137

Yet firearm suicides are among the most fatal of methods. moriah Feb 2018 #178

Generally the ones who don't succeed weren't really trying. More a cry for help/attention EX500rider Feb 2018 #187

Well, even among women pretty serious (like, still nameless) poisoning or OD... moriah Feb 2018 #189

Tell that to the dead! liberal N proud Feb 2018 #20

There needs to be an additional step(s) for gun violence to occur. aikoaiko Feb 2018 #26

Why is the "well regulated militia" part of the 2nd Amendment left out? brush Feb 2018 #38

2nd Amendment could be abolished today, quartz007 Feb 2018 #46

Making automatic or semi-auto attachments illegal will help though. brush Feb 2018 #50

Agreed 100% quartz007 Feb 2018 #71

School officers with weapons to match the crazies is fine with me but arming and training... brush Feb 2018 #76

Some Teachers in Missouri are already armed quartz007 Feb 2018 #91

Gun-free zones, huh? Sounds like a gun humper buzz word IMO. brush Feb 2018 #97

Obviously you have not read all my posts.. quartz007 Feb 2018 #109

Ok. We're mostly on the same page. #7 is iffy to me though. brush Feb 2018 #131

As they say, quartz007 Feb 2018 #133

Its not. The people keep and bear arms from which a militia can be drawn. aikoaiko Feb 2018 #52

Yeah, another way to weasel out of the intent of the 2nd written when single shot... brush Feb 2018 #58

Not important? Seems very important in light of all the crazies out there blasting people... brush Feb 2018 #65

They don't like that part Bettie Feb 2018 #62

It's not...but SCOTUS has ruled that the prefatory clause doesn't negate the AncientGeezer Feb 2018 #82

Would a less wordy definition be pretzeling to allow gun nuts free reign, or even simpler... brush Feb 2018 #89

Would President Obama' words work for you? AncientGeezer Feb 2018 #95

See my post 97. The 2nd Amendment desperately needs amending. Not abolishment mind you. brush Feb 2018 #99

Start the process....I was a kid in school when we tried to get the ERA passed.. AncientGeezer Feb 2018 #104

No need for snark. If it needs fixing it needs fixing. And you and I both know it does. brush Feb 2018 #106

I do NOT know ANY part of the BoR's need fixing.... AncientGeezer Feb 2018 #112

The Bill of Rights improved the Constitution, which kinda leads to the thought that if... brush Feb 2018 #118

You can't back your claim with ANY supporting source... AncientGeezer Feb 2018 #140

Here's this video. AGAIN. brush Feb 2018 #142

Not a bump stock..NOT an AR-15 read the description AncientGeezer Feb 2018 #174

Did you listen? The guy says it's an AR-15 and he's using the bump fire method. brush Feb 2018 #186

NOBODY says ANYTHING in that video...did you read the "ballons" AncientGeezer Feb 2018 #198

Here you go. But the whole point is there is no need for civilians to have this or variants. Agreed? brush Feb 2018 #202

That's a 9mm pistol....and not a bump stock....because it's a pistol. AncientGeezer Feb 2018 #203

Ahhh...what about my point that those weapons and VARIANTS with near-automatic... brush Feb 2018 #204

Wasn't in the hands of the Fl asswipe...In Vegas it prooved to be ineffective... AncientGeezer Feb 2018 #225

they won't explain how their fear overrides common sense Skittles Feb 2018 #7

It doesn't hack89 Feb 2018 #8

Militia only. Plus any RATIONAL person would draw a distinction Eliot Rosewater Feb 2018 #10

The Supreme Court begs to disagree n/t MichMary Feb 2018 #12

Your quoting the GOD DAMN Scallia bullshit decision? Eliot Rosewater Feb 2018 #24

No, I'm telling you MichMary Feb 2018 #27

Absolutely nothing stopping an AWB right now. The 2A is not the issue hack89 Feb 2018 #14

And a "well-regulated militia," specifically. n/t pnwmom Feb 2018 #56

Irrelavant... AncientGeezer Feb 2018 #84

Because the 2nd Amendment has been cherry picked liberal N proud Feb 2018 #21

It allows very strict regulation hack89 Feb 2018 #29

Public support is there! Its politicians who are too easily bought by the NRA who dont care... bettyellen Feb 2018 #63

Not really hack89 Feb 2018 #74

Who is it that elects those politicians? discntnt_irny_srcsm Feb 2018 #79

They dont pay attention to the fine points of policy. Many do not. bettyellen Feb 2018 #93

With over 20 years of momentum, why is that? discntnt_irny_srcsm Feb 2018 #176

more blather about how complicated it is to regulate at all. LOL. You need a new script. bettyellen Feb 2018 #191

And back at you discntnt_irny_srcsm Feb 2018 #192

Sensible regulation has never been more popular- and its this NRA nonsense that tries bettyellen Feb 2018 #193

Not really. Straw Man Feb 2018 #149

So that they have a two pronged approach matters why? They are the horses pulling the cart... bettyellen Feb 2018 #156

Life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness MichMary Feb 2018 #11

Hyperbole? Fascism? LuckyCharms Feb 2018 #13

Here's one example: MichMary Feb 2018 #16

Yeah I read it and see nothing wrong with it. LuckyCharms Feb 2018 #17

Okay MichMary Feb 2018 #23

So what. LuckyCharms Feb 2018 #25

Some people are biting at any bait sarisataka Feb 2018 #34

LOL! n/t MichMary Feb 2018 #37

I'll help you out... Baconator Feb 2018 #55

No need for help. LuckyCharms Feb 2018 #60

I'm saying that demonization, hyperbole and broad brush attacks... Baconator Feb 2018 #66

First, It's not hyperbole when people are getting ripped apart. LuckyCharms Feb 2018 #72

I'll frame it like this then... Baconator Feb 2018 #81

Worse than it will work with the LuckyCharms Feb 2018 #83

You know this question can apply to abortion as well. Motownman78 Feb 2018 #15

Except that if a woman has an abortion, it doesn't result in the deaths PoindexterOglethorpe Feb 2018 #64

That is true, but a lot of Motownman78 Feb 2018 #75

but a lot of people are dumd as fuck see trump ./.. stonecutter357 Feb 2018 #80

By that logic, jerking off wipes out entire potential civilizations Major Nikon Feb 2018 #101

Those people are ignorant meddlers in other people's lives. PoindexterOglethorpe Feb 2018 #231

You don't see the irony in this.. AncientGeezer Feb 2018 #236

Those who put restrictions on abortion PoindexterOglethorpe Feb 2018 #240

Actually the phrase "life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness" doesn't appear in the Constitution mythology Feb 2018 #18

Red Dawn got only marginal reviews as a movie. discntnt_irny_srcsm Feb 2018 #86

I'm not a gun nut, and you're not looking for an actual answer, but I'll give you one... brooklynite Feb 2018 #22

You're ignoring the "well regulated militia" part of the right to bear arms. brush Feb 2018 #45

...which the Supreme Court has already dismissed. brooklynite Feb 2018 #53

Dismissed how? Now SCOTUS is dismissing part of the Constitution? brush Feb 2018 #61

2008: DC vs. Heller brooklynite Feb 2018 #68

Where's the automatic or semi-auto converted to auto part of that decision? brush Feb 2018 #70

Not the issue in the case, and not the original question... brooklynite Feb 2018 #77

Smack of Scaliaism to me. Don't you agree? brush Feb 2018 #78

America drew that line in 1934 with the National Firearms Act (NFA) hack89 Feb 2018 #205

How about the way so many who defend the 2nd Amendment PoindexterOglethorpe Feb 2018 #67

When a person is shot dead all their rights have been stripped. boston bean Feb 2018 #96

So, because you could hit the person with a car, those should be banned as well? brooklynite Feb 2018 #98

Just stop it. A car is not a machine manufactured for the purpose of killing humans. boston bean Feb 2018 #103

Trucks are now weapon of choice by terrorists quartz007 Feb 2018 #113

Does Mack truck make special models to better run over people with? boston bean Feb 2018 #114

+++++ sheshe2 Feb 2018 #130

Were it true, it would still have fuck-all to do with the point being discussed. Nice dodge though. X_Digger Feb 2018 #115

It doesn't sarisataka Feb 2018 #30

Not a nut 2left4u Feb 2018 #33

Doncha know? MichMary Feb 2018 #39

Are you writing the victim's families yet? LuckyCharms Feb 2018 #40

Yeah, well, MichMary Feb 2018 #42

You seem to be evading my question. LuckyCharms Feb 2018 #43

Not evading anything MichMary Feb 2018 #47

Oh I see! LuckyCharms Feb 2018 #49

Would you accept President Obama's view on the 2a? AncientGeezer Feb 2018 #108

No. n/t LuckyCharms Feb 2018 #141

LOL. Common sense regulation and closing the loopholes are fair. Unless you want to arm felons and bettyellen Feb 2018 #194

Wrong MichMary Feb 2018 #195

The NRA is pushing to arm the masses with less regulation than ever. They support bettyellen Feb 2018 #196

You can source that I'm sure..."They support maniacs, terrorists and gun manufacturers AncientGeezer Feb 2018 #226

They literally want it easier for the mentally ill to get guns, harder for the govt to backround bettyellen Feb 2018 #229

"...easier for the mentally ill to get guns"...a widely spread falsehood. AncientGeezer Feb 2018 #232

Sorry if you hate all restrictions- but youre provng my point. Some people should not have guns. bettyellen Feb 2018 #235

"...wonder why nothing was done about it. "...No, that's on that a'hole. Doesn't bother me. AncientGeezer Feb 2018 #237

And it does say the right to bear arms should be in a well regulated militia, not in the... brush Feb 2018 #48

No it really says no such thing... AncientGeezer Feb 2018 #87

So you're saying that the intent of the founding fathers was not bearing arms in the confines... brush Feb 2018 #92

"...of a well regulated militia" ..I'm saying EXACTLY that... AncientGeezer Feb 2018 #102

What do you think the Las Vegas killer used? And why avoid the question of amending the 2nd? brush Feb 2018 #105

He used a bump stock....DID NOT make his semi auto into an automatic. AncientGeezer Feb 2018 #116

You're woefully uninformed. The bump stock is what converted his AR-15s to automatic. brush Feb 2018 #123

Bump stock does NOT convert a semi into an automatic. It's uninformed to say so. AncientGeezer Feb 2018 #134

Here you go. Now tell me that isn't automatic. Uninformed yet again. brush Feb 2018 #135

You didn't read the discription of your YouTube vid did you? AncientGeezer Feb 2018 #136

Bump stocks convert them to automatic. If you claim it's something else then you've... brush Feb 2018 #144

Not technically, no. Straw Man Feb 2018 #153

Oh please. You think the relatives of the dead are arguing that they're dead but technically... brush Feb 2018 #154

Greatly increased? Straw Man Feb 2018 #155

You're arguing whether it's 50% v 200% increase rate of fire? brush Feb 2018 #157

Yes. Perhaps you didn't understand me. Straw Man Feb 2018 #158

How do you measure full auto. How many rounds per minute is that? brush Feb 2018 #159

Full-auto is achieved by an automatic sear. Straw Man Feb 2018 #160

You're missing the boat. The video doesn't show what you call technically automatic fire... brush Feb 2018 #163

No bump stock in that video. I've already explained that. Straw Man Feb 2018 #165

Give it a rest, man. Technicality or not the real point is barring access to such weapons... brush Feb 2018 #167

And if you could define "such weapons" ... Straw Man Feb 2018 #168

No thanks. Not worth it. brush Feb 2018 #170

So you want to advocate for laws ... Straw Man Feb 2018 #172

So bump firing with that stock is not tecnically using a bump stock? brush Feb 2018 #169

There is NO STOCK on that weapon. Straw Man Feb 2018 #171

You're actually arguing that this is only a 50% increase in the rate of fire? brush Feb 2018 #161

Moving the goalposts again? Straw Man Feb 2018 #162

He says right in the video that it's call bump firing. brush Feb 2018 #164

Right. And it can be done without a bump stock. Straw Man Feb 2018 #166

Per current law and ATF doctrine, yagotme Feb 2018 #119

Videos on YouTube are easily accessed showing converted AR-15s firing automatically. brush Feb 2018 #127

Poor research....that's an M-4 variant NOT an AR AncientGeezer Feb 2018 #138

It says rignt on the video that it's an AR-15. Nice try though. brush Feb 2018 #143

And it also says this. Straw Man Feb 2018 #147

Stop the bs denials. I live in Vegas. The killer left behind multipe AR-15s and bump stocks... brush Feb 2018 #148

And the video you posted shows neither an AR-15 nor a bump stock. Straw Man Feb 2018 #151

They do it all the time on the thumbnails...for hits. AncientGeezer Feb 2018 #173

I thought research meant yagotme Feb 2018 #181

What's this then? brush Feb 2018 #185

A fully auto M-4 varianat. Noveske Rifleworks N-4 10.5" CQB(not AR-15) AncientGeezer Feb 2018 #200

Try this brush Feb 2018 #201

The point is variants are available to civilians. Are you in agreement that those variants... brush Feb 2018 #209

NO they are NOT.."209. The point is variants are available to civilians. AncientGeezer Feb 2018 #215

My question is do you agree that the variants and devices that make them near-auto should be... brush Feb 2018 #216

Your premise is wrong...your vids are NOT AR's or variants. I told you that a couple days ago. AncientGeezer Feb 2018 #219

Go to the "Las Vegas Journal Review's" web site. You'll find all the stories they did on the bump... brush Feb 2018 #228

No...but I'll bet my cats treat budget for a yr...none of them say AncientGeezer Feb 2018 #234

Go back to your right wing sites. You're no help. brush Feb 2018 #238

Are you helpful posting videos that do NOT in any way support your claims? AncientGeezer Feb 2018 #242

If you notice, there is no bump stock on that "pistol". yagotme Feb 2018 #206

Fine. The point is these near-auto capable weapons should not be available to civilians like... brush Feb 2018 #208

No. yagotme Feb 2018 #210

So nothing should be done to curtail the mass shootings? We continue to let mentally-disturbed... brush Feb 2018 #211

Well, the last shooting, yagotme Feb 2018 #212

I want effective measures taken. What about the Australia model, or limiting the size of magazines? brush Feb 2018 #213

We are NEVER going to have your "Australia model" ..confiscation. AncientGeezer Feb 2018 #217

Finally something positive. So you're on board with limiting magazine capacity with new purchases? brush Feb 2018 #218

NOBODY that owns a 30rd mag will turn them in...as I said above... AncientGeezer Feb 2018 #220

Something postive pls. Why automatically go to nothing can be done? brush Feb 2018 #221

I support the BoR's, ALL of them....I don't see your poorly informed wishes as a positive AncientGeezer Feb 2018 #223

Give suggestions not insults. No one's trying to infringe on rights, just looking for positive... brush Feb 2018 #227

You most certainly are trying to infringe on rights...and using AncientGeezer Feb 2018 #239

Boring. Go back to your right wing sites. You're no help. brush Feb 2018 #241

This message was self-deleted by its author AncientGeezer Feb 2018 #243

HUMAN ERRORS WERE MADE!!!! yagotme Mar 2018 #244

Pls go back to your winger site. brush Mar 2018 #245

Hope you're not making personal attacks, now... yagotme Mar 2018 #246

Yep...as could have been the Texas Church slaughter... AncientGeezer Feb 2018 #224

Out of curiosity, how does your right to a gun accomplish that? brooklynite Feb 2018 #54

I wanted to post this but could not figure out how to say so simply. we can do it Feb 2018 #35

Just because the Declaration of Independence was written first... Baconator Feb 2018 #51

Didnt you know they have an alternative Constitution? It's like alternative facts. Amaryllis Feb 2018 #117

Why mass shootings don't convince gun owners to support gun control IronLionZion Feb 2018 #120

becuz Benghazi....... lastlib Feb 2018 #121

Because they are not mutually exclusive Lee-Lee Feb 2018 #128

This is it... Baconator Feb 2018 #150

Simple. Your rights do not extend to depriving others of their rights. Azathoth Feb 2018 #152

Message auto-removed Name removed Feb 2018 #188

But yet we have so many deprived of their right to live at the hand of a gun. liberal N proud Feb 2018 #190

It's because pressbox69 Feb 2018 #199

Great post. I knew they would come. Kingofalldems Feb 2018 #207

To several million gun nuts DFW Feb 2018 #214

It says so in the Gun Nut Bible, don't you know? Initech Feb 2018 #222

Because 2 is greater than 1 Mr. Ected Feb 2018 #233