General Discussion

R B Garr

(18,270 posts)

247. If all this is true, that still doesn't explain why Vermont doesn't have

Mon Feb 26, 2018, 02:40 PM

Feb 2018

the wish list items. Are they "just naturally" leaning Republican?? I figured it was just a matter of time before the accusations flew that if you do not tout socialist pipe dreams that somehow everyone is a Republican. That's why endless ruminations of a perfect society don't gain traction. The reality is that there is an actual process to enact ideas in politics. That is the reality.

You can look up Sanders' all or nothing approach to Clinton's universal health care. I'm not going to link.

All the glorious talk denigrating incrementalism really has no meaning. That's why reality and practicality are demonized now -- the notions that it's all or nothing. It never has been and never will be. That is all just demagoguery.

I brought up the facts about Clinton's record because your last posts insinuated that Sanders' ideas were all novel, when the actual facts show that raising taxes on the rich has not only been thought of before, it was actually implemented. Gore was not perfect enough, though, so we got George Bush's version of politics.

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California Democrats, stop being stupid [View all] scheming daemons Feb 2018 OP

+ 100- My thoughts exactly. MBS Feb 2018 #1

ARe you from California? Do you know our system here? Sophia4 Feb 2018 #179

I have a long and deep acquaintance with California politics. MBS Feb 2018 #225

During the primary, you have two Democrats and two Republicans. Sophia4 Feb 2018 #234

I know how it works, but "deep blue state" MBS Feb 2018 #241

Let people who live in California make this decision. Sophia4 Feb 2018 #248

Are you aware the Russians are attacking Dianne Feinstein? Demsrule86 Feb 2018 #237

Exactly. n/t MBS Feb 2018 #240

And people on DU are attacking her, sideways sometimes but attacking her. Eliot Rosewater Feb 2018 #251

I think you are right. Demsrule86 Feb 2018 #253

Just saying California Repug Senator makes me NoMoreRepugs Feb 2018 #2

:) Won't happen. This may actually HELP Democrats. Hortensis Feb 2018 #31

The top two could help Rohrabacher win though. SleeplessinSoCal Feb 2018 #38

Yup, ugh! That district's a right-wing stronghold. Hortensis Feb 2018 #63

I disagree about his right wing it is. it has changed. SleeplessinSoCal Feb 2018 #118

Oh, I hope you're right, even if the electorate Hortensis Feb 2018 #122

+1000 Pachamama Feb 2018 #3

+1000 / Attacking Democrats & The Democratic Party never helps enact a liberal/progressive agenda. TheSmarterDog Feb 2018 #4

But this is the Democratic Parrty istself accused of attacking the Democratic Parrty Tom Rinaldo Feb 2018 #13

Their kchamberlin25 Feb 2018 #17

:) Oh, don't worry about this, (horrors another candidate?!!). Hortensis Feb 2018 #47

Feinstein doesn't really represent the thinking of many if not most Californians. Sophia4 Feb 2018 #57

Well maybe the Republican Senator they help elect with this stupidity will suit them better. I am Demsrule86 Feb 2018 #66

It's not going to elect a Republican senator Ken Burch Feb 2018 #139

I hope not...if Feinstein loses the primary and this guy is compromised somehow, we could Demsrule86 Feb 2018 #141

I'm actually neutral on this particular contest. Ken Burch Feb 2018 #149

No and I am not suggesting he is compromised...only that the GOP are very good at finding shit Demsrule86 Feb 2018 #157

You got that right. And you can bet every dollar you have that millions are going to be dumped C Moon Feb 2018 #217

The Russians want Feinstein out because she is effective on the Judiciary Committee Demsrule86 Feb 2018 #236

De Leon is not very liberal. Neither is Feinstein. Sophia4 Feb 2018 #189

If you were from California, you would know that Kevin De Leon has been the Sophia4 Feb 2018 #156

Feinstein has years of experience and is the minority leader of the judiciary...De Leon couldn't Demsrule86 Feb 2018 #158

I have not made up my mind. Sophia4 Feb 2018 #162

Thank you. We have primaries for a reason -- to give voters choices. Sophia4 Feb 2018 #153

Feinstein is from Northern California. So is Kamala Harris. Sophia4 Feb 2018 #152

100% WRONG. She's not even "very conservative" Hortensis Feb 2018 #73

That is a Revolution talking point, while Vermont does R B Garr Feb 2018 #81

Do you have statistics? ehrnst Feb 2018 #185

Post removed Post removed Feb 2018 #228

You mran they actually participated in the process. And they were all male you say? Tom Rinaldo Feb 2018 #235

Challenging an incumbent for renomination is not an attack on the party. Ken Burch Feb 2018 #124

If it continues after the primary, and allows a Republican to win, it is. TheSmarterDog Feb 2018 #126

Bernie wasn't opposing Hillary AFTER the convention. Ken Burch Feb 2018 #128

But many were, and still do. And it was a seed that Sanders helped plant. TheSmarterDog Feb 2018 #130

OK...so various individuals with various motives refused to support her, some worked against her. Ken Burch Feb 2018 #136

It's a waste of time to focus on placing blame. TheSmarterDog Feb 2018 #161

Welllll.....he sat on it a little while, as I recall. nt Honeycombe8 Feb 2018 #184

+1 chwaliszewski Feb 2018 #190

Thank you......what you said.....needed to be said slingsam Feb 2018 #5

Truly not picking a nit here, honest question Docreed2003 Feb 2018 #6

Her Rival is Progressive State Senate Leader Ccarmona Feb 2018 #60

She also voted for Iraq war and an amendment to ban flag burning. David__77 Feb 2018 #109

He doesn't... Demsrule86 Feb 2018 #70

no. time for new blood. imo shanny Feb 2018 #7

I agree janterry Feb 2018 #127

I agree. I also wish to point out that CA has its own Russian issues. Stinky The Clown Feb 2018 #8

Calexit was never taken seriously, and now a Repug wants to split the coast from the rest padfun Feb 2018 #18

My point was not viability Stinky The Clown Feb 2018 #144

Hillary won CA by 4.5 million votes BeyondGeography Feb 2018 #9

I agree. Take California out and... padfun Feb 2018 #14

"an 85-year old incumbent" left-of-center2012 Feb 2018 #26

And people wonder who our rising stars are BeyondGeography Feb 2018 #33

And folks will 'alert' on you ... left-of-center2012 Feb 2018 #35

She did not win the endorsement of the delegates edhopper Feb 2018 #10

Theres no Democratic primary. David__77 Feb 2018 #28

So it will be her against edhopper Feb 2018 #34

It could be, yes. David__77 Feb 2018 #45

so the vote could be split and the GOP wins...completely stupid. Demsrule86 Feb 2018 #65

In November, two Democrats and no Republicans will be on the ballot. David__77 Feb 2018 #67

It could be a GOP and the lightweight...Dem...De Leon but he is massively behind and will lose. Demsrule86 Feb 2018 #71

It's possible David__77 Feb 2018 #75

A new face is open to being attacked and could lose...this is not the year for it. Demsrule86 Feb 2018 #80

I understand your position. David__77 Feb 2018 #101

That is not the point...she is senior and has clout on the Judiiciary committee...she is the Demsrule86 Feb 2018 #147

it's never the right time to stand up in your mind Egnever Feb 2018 #107

We don't have the Senate, the House, the courts or the presidency...it will be sometime before it is Demsrule86 Feb 2018 #145

and we never will if we follow your idea of it is always a bad idea to stand up. Egnever Feb 2018 #146

The way to a majority is the big tent...with candidates selected based on their states...a mixture Demsrule86 Feb 2018 #155

the last time we had majorities was when Obama was elected Egnever Feb 2018 #159

No edhopper Feb 2018 #69

A GOPer could beat De Leon possibly. Demsrule86 Feb 2018 #72

No Republican will make it through the primary Mad_Mongol Feb 2018 #230

actually Rs are on the verge of losing shanny Feb 2018 #131

Ideological Purity is Ultra Stupidity and is a Formula for LOSING. LBM20 Feb 2018 #11

The same could be said for party loyalty purity. Voters look elsewhere when their issues aren't KPN Feb 2018 #90

So you are saying that we should always back the incumbent? padfun Feb 2018 #12

This year for sure...what is the point of electing a useless junion senator when Demsrule86 Feb 2018 #74

Your defeatism is troubling Egnever Feb 2018 #110

It is not defeatism...far from it...we have been taking Trump on Feinstien has helped Demsrule86 Feb 2018 #143

the only reason she is standing up at all is because she is under threat of a primary Egnever Feb 2018 #160

BINGO KPN Feb 2018 #93

We are California SHRED Feb 2018 #15

oh good lord Egnever Feb 2018 #16

I like Feinstein but its time to make way for a new generation. And We need term limits Pepsidog Feb 2018 #19

Feinstein is not going to win the Democratic primary because there is no Democratic primary. former9thward Feb 2018 #20

The top two go on to November, even if one gets a majority. David__77 Feb 2018 #25

Thanks for the correction. former9thward Feb 2018 #111

I totally agree! David__77 Feb 2018 #112

Did De Leon supporters really shout "Time's Up" at DiFi? mcar Feb 2018 #21

No need to be concerned with our open primaries denbot Feb 2018 #22

There IS no Democratic primary. As a Californian Democrat Ill vote against Feinstein. David__77 Feb 2018 #23

this will only happen if Feinstein pulls a Lieberman & runs as an independent yurbud Feb 2018 #24

It was a cosmetic vote. In real life (outside the convention) she's way ahead of De Leon.... George II Feb 2018 #27

Orchestrated to destroy the party. Eliot Rosewater Feb 2018 #29

No. It is intended to replace an aging candidate and to make sure no Republican Sophia4 Feb 2018 #54

That is not what this is about, otherwise there would R B Garr Feb 2018 #92

I think there is a large contingent Puzzledtraveller Feb 2018 #85

People need to connect the dots. I would do it here in an elaborate fashion Eliot Rosewater Feb 2018 #88

California is the leader of the nation. Sophia4 Feb 2018 #96

This is again just misplaced blame. Kicking California R B Garr Feb 2018 #108

So "progressive California" should not get to chose a more progressive representation because... Egnever Feb 2018 #113

Dems in California will be ok Iliyah Feb 2018 #30

More ignoramus purity BS!! Thekaspervote Feb 2018 #32

Please learn about the California election system. Sophia4 Feb 2018 #52

The Russian bots are doing their job Dopers_Greed Feb 2018 #36

THIS Auggie Feb 2018 #53

+1! KPN Feb 2018 #91

This is a vote of Democratic party officials -- not the general public karynnj Feb 2018 #100

Senate Dems were influenced by Russian bots during the Franken thing Dopers_Greed Feb 2018 #195

Truth is... She's too old outinleftfield2 Feb 2018 #37

Its about power haydukelives Feb 2018 #61

It seems that power is addicting. Scruffy1 Feb 2018 #220

THis is what I predicted, too bad I cant FREELY talk about it, maybe some would learn Eliot Rosewater Feb 2018 #39

But do you know the California election rules? Sophia4 Feb 2018 #49

That post was about talking down the party. R B Garr Feb 2018 #89

In California, with the exception of a few districts, elections are one Democrat Sophia4 Feb 2018 #121

More hypocrisy about hysteria? Hysteria being your word. R B Garr Feb 2018 #135

I know as well and you are correct. Don't say a word leftofcool Feb 2018 #223

This post clearly doesn't understand the CA primary system. TeamPooka Feb 2018 #40

One things Dems excel at is snatching defeat from the jaws of victory. nt Binkie The Clown Feb 2018 #41

Please read the California election rules. Sophia4 Feb 2018 #48

Harris won't be up until 2022 Retrograde Feb 2018 #129

Yep, and some would have thought there would never be horseless carriage...... nolabels Feb 2018 #167

Guess who has been busy tearing Harris down. The JPR R B Garr Feb 2018 #194

Feinstein is a powerful person in our Senate, a new Senator will have no power. Eliot Rosewater Feb 2018 #51

There are other senators who can fill in missingm Feb 2018 #62

These apparently dim CA Dems... BobTheSubgenius Feb 2018 #42

The election system in our state is different from the systems in other states. Sophia4 Feb 2018 #46

As others have noted, the system is different in California. Sophia4 Feb 2018 #43

I wonder if Vermont politicians will also be attacked and harassed. R B Garr Feb 2018 #44

The Democratic party needs to trend younger. demmiblue Feb 2018 #50

Hummmm . . . peggysue2 Feb 2018 #55

Generals and Admirals are often retired in the middle of wars FarCenter Feb 2018 #83

No, changed circumstances just means a hypocritical political R B Garr Feb 2018 #97

No one is attacking "Vermont Senators" except you NT hueymahl Feb 2018 #201

Right, they are attacking California Senators instead R B Garr Feb 2018 #204

Feinstein has proven herself in this matter peggysue2 Feb 2018 #99

Excellent points. Feinstein has enough clout and seniority R B Garr Feb 2018 #114

National Democrats, stop being stupid... Wounded Bear Feb 2018 #56

Feinstein is too conservative for California, but her opponent and she will probably Sophia4 Feb 2018 #58

She has been elected for years...De Leon shouldn't have run...and I will remember him if he ever Demsrule86 Feb 2018 #76

That is a different story edhopper Feb 2018 #77

I an worried that he could end up on the ballot with the GOP...incumbents have an advantage. Demsrule86 Feb 2018 #79

True edhopper Feb 2018 #82

always the drumbeat to never ever ever challenge the incumbent. Sounds like JCanete Feb 2018 #87

You are concerned with your version of democracy...the purification process and the primary with Demsrule86 Feb 2018 #154

you are making up a scenario where competition for the democratic frontrunner is bad for us. AND JCanete Feb 2018 #168

Then incumbents should reciprocate and start demanding R B Garr Feb 2018 #191

promises are unrealistic when they are presented by the democratic party as middling measures. JCanete Feb 2018 #196

Some things are just political cycles like complacency. R B Garr Feb 2018 #199

political reality is shaped. It is created. Fuck. Ask trump. The difference is that Trumps reality JCanete Feb 2018 #200

Then why hasnt this been done in Vermont. R B Garr Feb 2018 #205

Yes. I hate this question because, frankly, it is dumb and deflecting of whether or not it should be JCanete Feb 2018 #207

Actually what is tragic is trashing Democrats over pointing R B Garr Feb 2018 #209

That isn't it at all. Its to tell democrats "Fucking fight for this already and we will JCanete Feb 2018 #213

Sorry, but this is just more demagoguery piled higher R B Garr Feb 2018 #229

wait...please do discuss Sanders treatment of HIllary's universal health care. What are you talking JCanete Feb 2018 #242

If all this is true, that still doesn't explain why Vermont doesn't have R B Garr Feb 2018 #247

I didn't do that, and I agree that that is a direction I don't want to take this conversation. JCanete Feb 2018 #249

Just a second note because I don't want to gloss over it. I'm totally willing to accept that JCanete Feb 2018 #216

Most Californians are too smart to fall for this manipulation. R B Garr Feb 2018 #94

We used to have free or nearly free college tuition, and I am a strong supporter Sophia4 Feb 2018 #98

If it is so easy as you say, then the Revolution R B Garr Feb 2018 #104

It is time for Feinstein to leave the Senate. Sophia4 Feb 2018 #117

More hypocrisy? By these authoritarian standards, R B Garr Feb 2018 #133

Yes. The stress is very great if a senator or president does a really good job. Sophia4 Feb 2018 #134

Then I am sure you will be pushing for the very liberal R B Garr Feb 2018 #137

My view is general. Sophia4 Feb 2018 #140

This is very tortured logic, since President is the R B Garr Feb 2018 #142

I speak out against ageism too, but running for senator or president when your term Sophia4 Feb 2018 #148

Such obvious double standards. Unless we are actively R B Garr Feb 2018 #164

But I say in my humble opinion that someone running for a four- or six-year term who Sophia4 Feb 2018 #178

If certain someones are exempt from this arbitrary R B Garr Feb 2018 #181

There is effectively zero Republican candidates running. herding cats Feb 2018 #59

As a supporter of Bernie during the primary elmac Feb 2018 #64

Yet their tactics are belittling and other aggressive tactics, R B Garr Feb 2018 #86

Shame hueymahl Feb 2018 #202

Exactly. Stop attacking Democrats. nt R B Garr Feb 2018 #206

EXACTLY THIS!!! LovingA2andMI Feb 2018 #103

That is not how it works potone Feb 2018 #68

We can't even primary incumbents now? Ace Rothstein Feb 2018 #78

Right? Egnever Feb 2018 #116

Excuse me, did you say "is becoming"? Jim Lane Feb 2018 #252

As has been pointed out here, your concern doesn't even reflect the way JCanete Feb 2018 #84

You seem confused... Mad_Mongol Feb 2018 #231

I think that's a reasonable expectation. I was simply saying worst cdase, there would be one dem JCanete Feb 2018 #239

It's an OPEN primary -- and the top two are in the general election karynnj Feb 2018 #95

Feinstein is an excellent choice and failing to endorse her is shooting ourselves in the foot. johnpowdy Feb 2018 #102

I disagree. Feinstein should be voted out. David__77 Feb 2018 #106

losing her on judiciary would be a blow...I hear Russian and GOP trolls agree with you though. Demsrule86 Feb 2018 #243

This message was self-deleted by its author David__77 Feb 2018 #245

Assuming Leahy and Durbin keep their other posts, wouldn't Whitehouse replace her? FarCenter Feb 2018 #246

No idea...but she is knowledgeable and experienced and we need her...a junior Senator for Dianne... Demsrule86 Feb 2018 #250

A Democrat will win this Senate seat, so I fail to see the problem. Tatiana Feb 2018 #105

I hope everyone realizes that anyone who defeats her does not automatically assume the... NurseJackie Feb 2018 #125

Thank you. peggysue2 Feb 2018 #138

Exactly, thank you NJ. The irony of the Vermont style R B Garr Feb 2018 #192

So there's nobody else among Democratic KPN Feb 2018 #198

I truly believe we need to move the party back leftward, where it once was, but Dark n Stormy Knight Feb 2018 #115

Do you really think California is going to vote in a republican? Egnever Feb 2018 #120

Lol, no. Dark n Stormy Knight Feb 2018 #123

In California, due to the "top-two" primary, there won't BE a Republican on the November ballot. Ken Burch Feb 2018 #119

I like Feinstein but calm down RandySF Feb 2018 #132

Nah. We're good. We're gonna have a primary and we're keeping this seat either way. Nailzberg Feb 2018 #150

The rest of our nation should be so "stupid". jcmaine72 Feb 2018 #151

In RW states, the California primary Progressive dog Feb 2018 #165

We can't win in those racist hate pockets anyway. jcmaine72 Feb 2018 #166

I strongly disagree, Progressive dog Feb 2018 #169

Trump, the most unAmerican president this nation has ever been cursed with... jcmaine72 Feb 2018 #170

That is sick nt Progressive dog Feb 2018 #172

No, that is the truth. n/t jcmaine72 Feb 2018 #173

You obviously have never visited any place rural Progressive dog Feb 2018 #180

This is why we lose 2left4u Feb 2018 #188

"Always look backward." moondust Feb 2018 #163

Agreed Gothmog Feb 2018 #171

Nope. Good for them. N/T alarimer Feb 2018 #174

We will likely get to choose between two Democrats. DemocratSinceBirth Feb 2018 #175

im donating to her now... samnsara Feb 2018 #176

Shooting ourselves in the foot? pecosbob Feb 2018 #177

Any OTHER way to lead this this than 'stop being stupid?' elleng Feb 2018 #182

Would she vote for impeachment? What does she think of impeachment at this stage? nt Honeycombe8 Feb 2018 #183

Yes. Of course she would vote for impeachment. underthematrix Feb 2018 #203

I'm not sure. I haven't seen any evidence of that. Did she say that, at some point? Honeycombe8 Feb 2018 #224

I'm a Californian and I agree. iluvtennis Feb 2018 #186

We need new blood in our party hueymahl Feb 2018 #187

K&R and Jesus H. Christ! bunt homer Feb 2018 #193

She may be one of the oldest Senators, Mr.Bill Feb 2018 #197

Learn what youre talking about. TDale313 Feb 2018 #208

i disagree. garybeck Feb 2018 #210

Well, I guess you wanted to get people's attention by calling us Upthevibe Feb 2018 #211

i agree with you and disagree with the OP. n/t garybeck Feb 2018 #212

"too conservative" That is a false flag. There is very little difference on the issues between still_one Feb 2018 #215

I suspect Feinstein will win, but of course with the media pushing it, and the usual suspects, the still_one Feb 2018 #214

If u have 2 qualified candidates in a primary u don't endorse... Why is that hard for u folks? dembotoz Feb 2018 #218

Will support Old Crank Feb 2018 #219

The fact that Russian Bots are going after her on twitter should be a red flag ehrnst Feb 2018 #221

California has always been ahead of the curve randr Feb 2018 #222

I don't have a problem JNelson6563 Feb 2018 #226

Agree 100% nt lillypaddle Feb 2018 #227

Mean while conservatives are changing all the rules to favor them. lancelyons Feb 2018 #232

Looks like both the SEIU and California Nurses Association supported de Leon FarCenter Feb 2018 #233

The last Election had 2 Democratic politicians going for Barbara Boxer's seat. Caliman73 Feb 2018 #238

None of the top Governor Dems in the running are getting the party endorsement ehrnst Feb 2018 #244