General Discussion

IdaBriggs

(10,559 posts)

6. Cars = Guns is NOT a solution. (EDIT: Maybe it could work?)

Fri Jul 27, 2012, 06:25 AM

Jul 2012

It is what we call a "false equivalency" but let's pretend it's a true one.

Cars have been regulated, safety features range from seat belts to rear view mirrors to air bags, regular testing is required to operate them, owning them comes with annual "title, tax and registration," you have to purchase insurance to operate them, they cost thousands of dollars to purchase, and if you are deemed unfit, you lose your right to drive one.

I am okay with all of those standards being applied to gun owners. Good thinking!

I apologize - here I was thinking you were just being a smart aleck, but this is actually some good thinking!

Well done!

ON EDIT: And you can only use them in a restricted way (speed limits) in certain places (roads and parking structures). The more I think about this, the cleverer you appear! This is some good, outside-the-box thinking!

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My INALIENABLE Rights TRUMP Your SECOND Amendment Rights. [View all] IdaBriggs Jul 2012 OP

*yawn* LAGC Jul 2012 #1

I already FEEL SAFE. It's ALIVE I apparently have to argue about. IdaBriggs Jul 2012 #3

Should we take away everyone's cars because a few idiots drive drunk and kill people? LAGC Jul 2012 #4

Cars = Guns is NOT a solution. (EDIT: Maybe it could work?) IdaBriggs Jul 2012 #6

"I. Am. Done. Arguing." pintobean Jul 2012 #7

The argument is over; we are now finding a solution to the problem. IdaBriggs Jul 2012 #17

"sit down and be quiet" hack89 Jul 2012 #130

Not a "dead issue" - its the dead PEOPLE. IdaBriggs Jul 2012 #136

You're the one looking for a solution. LAGC Jul 2012 #139

We HAVE a solution. Melt 'em all down, and there won't be any gun crimes. lastlib Jul 2012 #174

Except, of course, for weapons in the hands of government employees slackmaster Jul 2012 #179

ok, great! You support the death penalty too! It's nice to not feel alone..... but.... Ghost in the Machine Jul 2012 #212

I'm actually against the death penalty, and don't think it is a deterrent. LAGC Jul 2012 #270

I thought I was replying to the poster below you, "lastlib" who said.. Ghost in the Machine Jul 2012 #289

My bad, I thought you were replying to me. LAGC Jul 2012 #293

Here is my solution to gun crime hack89 Jul 2012 #141

Isn't this the same mentality that gave us the patriot act, DHS, TSA screeners and the like? 4th law of robotics Jul 2012 #146

+100000000 nt Mojorabbit Jul 2012 #278

Well said. Generally speaking "reasonable" gun control to folks like the OP mean take ALL the guns SlimJimmy Jul 2012 #291

You're right, the argument is over. pintobean Jul 2012 #308

If you're worried about keeping people alive, go fight heart disease. Daemonaquila Jul 2012 #311

+1 well said. SemperEadem Jul 2012 #11

The only "false equivilency" is that there is no right to own a car in the Constitution. LAGC Jul 2012 #36

neener neener? tiny elvis Jul 2012 #49

Wow. That is a powerful visual. IdaBriggs Jul 2012 #91

only if youre part of a militia which we dont have so there goes the 2nd amendmnt and your leftyohiolib Jul 2012 #61

Part of two militias actually. Clames Jul 2012 #65

does neighborhood watch count? tiny elvis Jul 2012 #73

President Obama disagrees with you. LAGC Jul 2012 #153

Read that again, because it presupposes the ability to REGULATE your precious nadinbrzezinski Jul 2012 #188

I'll bet I'm better regulated than you. One thing I learned from Vietnam... slackmaster Jul 2012 #201

Whoosh nadinbrzezinski Jul 2012 #211

The problem with universal background checks is that it is de facto registration. LAGC Jul 2012 #205

There you go, predictable talking point nadinbrzezinski Jul 2012 #216

All of what you said...PLUS... polmaven Jul 2012 #72

The only ONE intended purpose of a gun. LAGC Jul 2012 #138

Cars are not designed with the PRIMARY INTENT to hurt or kill someone. Tommy_Carcetti Jul 2012 #215

Who says guns are? LAGC Jul 2012 #271

Wrong! The primary purpose of guns is to punch holes in living things, including humans. RC Jul 2012 #279

Well, all of the guns I've ever owned in my life, and those of most everyone I know must all be LAGC Jul 2012 #281

it transcends the constitution - don't you get that?????? DrDan Jul 2012 #8

"Feeling safe" is NOT an inalienable right. LAGC Jul 2012 #39

Not until you use it to defend your guns malaise Jul 2012 #43

ok - I agree DrDan Jul 2012 #47

Not until you use it to defend your guns tiny elvis Jul 2012 #51

Most gun-owners don't own guns to "feel safe" either. LAGC Jul 2012 #56

fun trumps murder? tiny elvis Jul 2012 #64

Absolutely. LAGC Jul 2012 #69

no happiness without it? tiny elvis Jul 2012 #74

The right to gun people down in the streets is not in the Constitution either. RC Jul 2012 #102

+1000 nt laundry_queen Jul 2012 #251

These INALIENABLE RIGHTS MrDiaz Jul 2012 #50

these "American" constitutional rights are subject to restrictions DrDan Jul 2012 #54

the 2nd admendment gives every single AMERICAN the right to own and bear arms tiny elvis Jul 2012 #59

subject to restrictions DrDan Jul 2012 #62

you wrote something that has no meaning tiny elvis Jul 2012 #67

so you really don't believe there are restrictions? DrDan Jul 2012 #114

Yet, 100% background checks are popular except iwth the precsious crowd nadinbrzezinski Jul 2012 #199

Wrong yet again. Florida is 24th in death rates from guns. SlimJimmy Jul 2012 #294

Quit it with facts. CokeMachine Jul 2012 #298

Sorry, it just erks me when someone uses blatently false information. SlimJimmy Jul 2012 #300

ubiquity meets such a demand in practice tiny elvis Jul 2012 #210

in the hands of CRIMINALS MrDiaz Jul 2012 #255

and non-criminals DrDan Jul 2012 #259

lost only in some states, but ask a repub if votes are dangerous tiny elvis Jul 2012 #261

No right in the constituion is free and clear of regulations and limits nadinbrzezinski Jul 2012 #195

Bill of Rights = Natural Rights = Inalienable Rights hack89 Jul 2012 #132

good try - and perhaps you think it is your inalienable right - but way off base DrDan Jul 2012 #160

So show me the case history that says otherwise. hack89 Jul 2012 #164

felons are denied 2A rights - for the safety of the citizens DrDan Jul 2012 #166

Are felons denied inalienable rights also? hack89 Jul 2012 #167

in the name of the safety for the rest of us DrDan Jul 2012 #173

All the rights must be balanced hack89 Jul 2012 #182

whatever helps you sleep at night deacon_sephiroth Jul 2012 #25

+100 nt Skip Intro Jul 2012 #284

Yuppers. Daemonaquila Jul 2012 #309

i love it... xchrom Jul 2012 #2

I'm in as a... GTurck Jul 2012 #27

Well said! nt IdaBriggs Jul 2012 #92

No they don't... sendero Jul 2012 #5

and cars are regulated - and registered DrDan Jul 2012 #9

I have no problem with .. sendero Jul 2012 #10

insurance, registration, strict controls, enforcement, age limits, learners permits, inspections DrDan Jul 2012 #15

Brilliant! I'm all for this! deacon_sephiroth Jul 2012 #28

exactly - plus there is a worthwhile purpose for cars DrDan Jul 2012 #32

Same as there is with guns. LAGC Jul 2012 #45

are they fun to rub and lick? tiny elvis Jul 2012 #83

Gosh, I wouldn't have thought so, but now that you mention it... Orrex Jul 2012 #95

I'd like to see hard statistics on that Orrex Jul 2012 #94

It's a false NRA talking point. DanTex Jul 2012 #104

That study's methodology is flawed, like others of its kind. LAGC Jul 2012 #190

Call the NRA Talking Points what they really are bongbong Jul 2012 #280

The main difference is driving is a privilege, owning guns is a right. LAGC Jul 2012 #44

Damn if accidental deaths from car accidents aren't way down, just safeinOhio Jul 2012 #38

Sure, let's do the car thing. Clames Jul 2012 #75

nice try DrDan Jul 2012 #105

You want guns treated like cars. Clames Jul 2012 #177

not worth a response DrDan Jul 2012 #178

Then why did you bother to type that? Clames Jul 2012 #209

LAGC beat you to this one, but I am glad you like this solution, too! IdaBriggs Jul 2012 #14

Do you know what a magnitude of order is? EOTE Jul 2012 #16

Millions of people get benefit from relatively inexpensive transportation. IdaBriggs Jul 2012 #18

Did you mean to reply to me? NT EOTE Jul 2012 #40

Oops! In a hurry! Sorry! IdaBriggs Jul 2012 #78

"...about 30K people die annually from gun violence in the U.S."??? Here's a link showing fewer Petrushka Jul 2012 #93

Here you go. EOTE Jul 2012 #142

When you said, "gun violence ", I took for granted that you meant murder. In any case . . . Petrushka Jul 2012 #149

Because people who are killed otherwise, aren't killed in a violent manner? EOTE Jul 2012 #161

Sorry I asked a question. My bad! But . . . thanks again for the link, nonetheless. Petrushka Jul 2012 #273

Why would self inflicted gunshots count as gun violence? EX500rider Jul 2012 #295

Because self-inflicted violence is still violence? EOTE Jul 2012 #299

Actually, cars only kill slightly more people than guns. DanTex Jul 2012 #70

Millions of people benefit from inexpensive transportation. IdaBriggs Jul 2012 #80

My rights to life liberty and the pursuit of happiness justanidea Jul 2012 #12

how'd that work out with second-hand smoke? DrDan Jul 2012 #22

I guess all good things have to end somewhere deacon_sephiroth Jul 2012 #29

you have to change the constitution to allow non- militia people to carry guns leftyohiolib Jul 2012 #63

Not so. Lizzie Poppet Jul 2012 #111

Wrong bongbong Jul 2012 #304

Nope. Lizzie Poppet Jul 2012 #313

Stop at "LIFE" - its the one where we seem to be having the problem. IdaBriggs Jul 2012 #87

So you feel that you forfeit you right to life when you enter a place that doesn't allow guns? Orrex Jul 2012 #90

Maybe this makes you feel better era veteran Jul 2012 #13

Really? You'll look out for us? Shankapotomus Jul 2012 #31

Payoff for protection? How about 236 years as a Republic? Forget all that? era veteran Jul 2012 #79

I know Shankapotomus Jul 2012 #110

Nazi Germany era veteran Jul 2012 #244

Yet, when the US helped Adenauer and the rest WRITE the post war nadinbrzezinski Jul 2012 #248

We were still occupying Germany as a conquerer. era veteran Jul 2012 #287

Gee so we can do that because of that nadinbrzezinski Jul 2012 #301

The problem with your argument Shankapotomus Jul 2012 #275

Since you bring it up era veteran Jul 2012 #283

Concentration camps???? So we're getting our talking points from Joe the Plumber now? nt DanTex Jul 2012 #119

What did you just post? era veteran Jul 2012 #246

Umm, the majority of Democrats don't think that gun control had anything to do with the holocaust. DanTex Jul 2012 #312

Historical Genocide era veteran Jul 2012 #288

Cause Chicago and DC show us that banning guns stops murders joeglow3 Jul 2012 #112

People can't go outside dc and Chicago Shankapotomus Jul 2012 #116

Do criminals need to leave DC or Chicago joeglow3 Jul 2012 #186

That's odd deacon_sephiroth Jul 2012 #34

The 1% already took over the country? xxenderwigginxx Jul 2012 #46

That meme is bullshit era veteran Jul 2012 #76

That is a joke, right? Warren Stupidity Jul 2012 #82

Thanks for all your helpful insight era veteran Jul 2012 #100

If you're happy with referring Shankapotomus Jul 2012 #124

There is no debate The 2nd Amendment is clear era veteran Jul 2012 #165

Hate to point this out nadinbrzezinski Jul 2012 #219

Considering how well the insurgency in Iraq... Clames Jul 2012 #241

What else did they use nadinbrzezinski Jul 2012 #245

You are seriously clueless. Clames Jul 2012 #254

Of course you do, why the next civil war nadinbrzezinski Jul 2012 #302

Also don't forget CokeMachine Jul 2012 #305

Ah two more fantasies nadinbrzezinski Jul 2012 #306

Hello era veteran Jul 2012 #250

Contextually they were BOTH internal rebellions nadinbrzezinski Jul 2012 #257

And watch the smug punks come out of their dark corners to rub you face in the geckosfeet Jul 2012 #19

THE TERRORISTS WIN! deacon_sephiroth Jul 2012 #37

describe the difference between taking guns away tiny elvis Jul 2012 #89

I'm afraid JackInGreen Jul 2012 #20

Was there a solution posted by the OP? Clames Jul 2012 #21

See post #30. IdaBriggs Jul 2012 #33

Keep a gun? Clames Jul 2012 #48

You want to keep a gun, get to work thinking! xxenderwigginxx Jul 2012 #52

You can own as many guns as you want; I can regulate the heck out of the bullets then. IdaBriggs Jul 2012 #85

All of which would be declared unconstitutional joeglow3 Jul 2012 #115

? xxenderwigginxx Jul 2012 #123

Leaving aside the fact you can't actually do any of those things, let's pretend you could dmallind Jul 2012 #148

Very well stated!! CokeMachine Jul 2012 #307

Exactly Shankapotomus Jul 2012 #23

What Can You Do About It? billy_j Jul 2012 #24

That is the point exactly. IdaBriggs Jul 2012 #30

And I'll back you up on this Shankapotomus Jul 2012 #41

So what other hobbyists are responsible for making it safe for others around them? LAGC Jul 2012 #42

As a matter of fact, YES. IdaBriggs Jul 2012 #96

The same thing is already true for forearms. Lizzie Poppet Jul 2012 #122

Well smart guy. 99Forever Jul 2012 #108

What are you doing to ensure OTHER pool owners are taking the same responsibility? Marengo Jul 2012 #267

Ask me that the next time someones pool ... 99Forever Jul 2012 #285

I've got you covered on that one, IdaBriggs slackmaster Jul 2012 #137

Interesting idea. Pab Sungenis Jul 2012 #197

IMO reducing stolen firearms would reduce law enforcement and emergency medical costs slackmaster Jul 2012 #198

I'm serious. I think it would be a good idea. Pab Sungenis Jul 2012 #202

I like this, slackmaster. It makes sense to me. IdaBriggs Jul 2012 #243

Bravo! liberal N proud Jul 2012 #26

Hmmm xxenderwigginxx Jul 2012 #35

Finally. A post in this thread that makes sense. leftofcool Jul 2012 #53

that's right cause your ar15 is going to fend off the govrmnt if they come after you leftyohiolib Jul 2012 #58

Really? Offer proof of your claim, please. Thor_MN Jul 2012 #66

world history is my proof xxenderwigginxx Jul 2012 #151

So tell me, how well did that work out nadinbrzezinski Jul 2012 #222

Funny how Shankapotomus Jul 2012 #68

Most defensive gun uses don't involve killing anyone. LAGC Jul 2012 #71

Most defensive gun uses aren't actually "defensive" DanTex Jul 2012 #81

So I've read on DU recently. klook Jul 2012 #214

Wow. Nicely phrased! IdaBriggs Jul 2012 #256

Japan? xxenderwigginxx Jul 2012 #145

Firstly Shankapotomus Jul 2012 #171

Im not paranoid. xxenderwigginxx Jul 2012 #131

No, not really nadinbrzezinski Jul 2012 #221

KNR...the gun aficionados don't seem to realize it's called the Bill of RightS joeybee12 Jul 2012 #55

I support the entire Bill of Rights. LAGC Jul 2012 #57

Excellent OP IdaBriggs, and same for your subsequent posts. ENOUGH IS ENOUGH secondwind Jul 2012 #60

Thank you. IdaBriggs Jul 2012 #98

And every mass murderer started out as A CHILD! Egalitarian Thug Jul 2012 #77

LOL! Yes. And every criminal started out as a smarty pants. IdaBriggs Jul 2012 #86

I don't own any assault weapons michreject Jul 2012 #84

That is part of the problem - you can only control YOU IdaBriggs Jul 2012 #97

I don't drink or do drugs michreject Jul 2012 #103

It's not guns that scare me LynneSin Jul 2012 #88

It would be inconvenient to own a shitload of penises. Orrex Jul 2012 #99

Nuts generally are paired up with a penis. Remmah2 Jul 2012 #196

DUzy! Pab Sungenis Jul 2012 #204

How does that apply to all the millions of women gun-owners? LAGC Jul 2012 #143

This isn't about people who own a gun LynneSin Jul 2012 #152

Thanks for the post! Javaman Jul 2012 #101

Yep you're done. dmallind Jul 2012 #106

Yawn. More "neener neener" - now address the issues, please. IdaBriggs Jul 2012 #120

A billion dollars would make me happy. Alduin Jul 2012 #107

Are. You. Done. ileus Jul 2012 #109

People are killed by Bellerophon Jul 2012 #113

Read the thread: Tens of Millions drive, and receive a benefit from get benefit. IdaBriggs Jul 2012 #126

You say you're done arguing so I won't bother refuting your claims 4th law of robotics Jul 2012 #117

The "arguing" was over whether random gun violence was a new, acceptable norm. IdaBriggs Jul 2012 #121

I doubt there was ANY actual "argument" over that point. Lizzie Poppet Jul 2012 #125

Unfortunately, the "neener neener" crowd disagrees with you. IdaBriggs Jul 2012 #127

Fortunately, it's NOT getting worse. Lizzie Poppet Jul 2012 #134

Saying "the problem isn't really that bad" isn't working for me. IdaBriggs Jul 2012 #170

You realize I said no such thing, right? Lizzie Poppet Jul 2012 #228

Gun violence is on the decline 4th law of robotics Jul 2012 #129

all recent violence aside tiny elvis Jul 2012 #249

LOL, was this a serious post? Logical Jul 2012 #118

Whoops - just understood your PM! IdaBriggs Jul 2012 #128

7 out of possible 10 points slackmaster Jul 2012 #133

Thank you - thank you very much! IdaBriggs Jul 2012 #140

Please see reply #137 - I haven't overlooked the content of your OP, but I consider it proper... slackmaster Jul 2012 #157

The RKBA is an inalienable right hack89 Jul 2012 #135

If they were natural and inalienable, they wouldn't need to be enumerated Orrex Jul 2012 #150

So none of the BOR are inalienable rights? OK. hack89 Jul 2012 #154

If they were natural and inalienable, they wouldn't need to be enumerated Orrex Jul 2012 #159

So show me where in the US system of justice, inalienable rights trump enumerated rights. hack89 Jul 2012 #162

I'm arguing the opposite. Orrex Jul 2012 #229

I think we agree - sorry for the confusion. nt hack89 Jul 2012 #230

I'll totallly kick you ass for agreeing with me!!!!!!!!!!!!!1!!!!!! Orrex Jul 2012 #238

The phrase "inalienable rights" isn't found in the Constitution but . . . Petrushka Jul 2012 #144

Got me on that one. IdaBriggs Jul 2012 #163

Didn't the British soldiers who fought on this side of the pond have the same "inalienable rights"? Petrushka Jul 2012 #269

Thank you IdaBriggs. 99Forever Jul 2012 #147

The NRA has over 4 million members. LAGC Jul 2012 #155

The current population of the USA is ... 99Forever Jul 2012 #168

There are 80 million gun owners in the United States. LAGC Jul 2012 #176

"Mobilized" 99Forever Jul 2012 #181

My goodness, no! LAGC Jul 2012 #193

Mobilized to act and vote disidoro01 Jul 2012 #207

33 posts... 99Forever Jul 2012 #220

no disidoro01 Jul 2012 #290

Wow, I'm stunned. 99Forever Jul 2012 #292

Just don't make the mistake of all gun owners nadinbrzezinski Jul 2012 #225

If I'm over the top... 99Forever Jul 2012 #272

This message was self-deleted by its author nadinbrzezinski Jul 2012 #227

the pool analogy disidoro01 Jul 2012 #156

K&R xxenderwigginxx Jul 2012 #169

Our pool... 99Forever Jul 2012 #175

K&R Thanks Ida qb Jul 2012 #158

Guess it's obvious, our kids will never play together. Remmah2 Jul 2012 #172

And what did they think of the new Batman movie? IdaBriggs Jul 2012 #185

My kids are sane and mature. Remmah2 Jul 2012 #194

Militia wear uniforms dickthegrouch Jul 2012 #180

Actually, only members of the organized components of the militia e.g. National Guard wear uniforms. slackmaster Jul 2012 #184

Where does that mention uniforms? dickthegrouch Jul 2012 #189

Members of the unorganized militia aren't combatants slackmaster Jul 2012 #191

The art students on campus all wear uniform clothing. Remmah2 Jul 2012 #192

That's because art students are all strive to be unique individuals slackmaster Jul 2012 #203

I like the sculpture-art students. Remmah2 Jul 2012 #218

This has some serious points - a "knight in shining armor" concept, maybe? IdaBriggs Jul 2012 #236

Anyone else notice xxenderwigginxx Jul 2012 #183

Nobody is more blind to a hypocrite's logical inconsistencies than the hypocrite himself or herself slackmaster Jul 2012 #187

For heaven's sake, SAFETY CONCERNS for your HOBBY are not a dictatorship! IdaBriggs Jul 2012 #208

Is anybody telling you to give up your precious nadinbrzezinski Jul 2012 #233

Yawning facepalm... cherokeeprogressive Jul 2012 #200

No they don't kctim Jul 2012 #206

This is tongue in cheek and I'm the only one who gets it. Right? badtoworse Jul 2012 #213

IdaBriggs, "And you won't like my solution. I promise." aikoaiko Jul 2012 #217

Sounds like the same kind logic ... 99Forever Jul 2012 #223

Not well for them but it led to a law to prevent that from happening to gun manufacturers. aikoaiko Jul 2012 #240

Doesn't that make .. 99Forever Jul 2012 #286

Big Tobacco was done in because the contemplated and LAWFUL use of their product caused harm. badtoworse Jul 2012 #242

Mommy can put her foot down as often as she wants.. MicaelS Jul 2012 #224

Sigh. "Neener neener" - right? IdaBriggs Jul 2012 #237

I can sum up my opinion regarding your little screed... -..__... Jul 2012 #226

Yes, its clear. Didn't they all die? IdaBriggs Jul 2012 #239

I understand your frustration, but I don't think you have a point other cali Jul 2012 #231

I think I'm going to do a little more, cali. IdaBriggs Jul 2012 #253

What about the gun owners' "inalienable right Marcia Brady Jul 2012 #232

They come in order of importance: Life, Liberty, Pursuit of Happiness. IdaBriggs Jul 2012 #234

The phase "life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness" appears in the Declaration of Synicus Maximus Jul 2012 #235

Because it is one of the major concepts on which our country is founded - IdaBriggs Jul 2012 #247

ah but it does have power in the law DrDan Jul 2012 #264

IMO the Declaration is implicitly referenced in the Constitution dickthegrouch Jul 2012 #274

In this RW-graced country, 2nd Amendment rights trump all others and if you indepat Jul 2012 #252

Amen! People who own guns, EACH OF YOU are personally responsible for the actions hughee99 Jul 2012 #258

that's because it transcends the constitution DrDan Jul 2012 #260

In general, hughee99 Jul 2012 #277

Please see the 10th amendment. ;) n/t discntnt_irny_srcsm Jul 2012 #265

1 - 2 - 3 - 4... discntnt_irny_srcsm Jul 2012 #262

And another "neener neener" answer. IdaBriggs Jul 2012 #266

Your welcome discntnt_irny_srcsm Jul 2012 #268

Dear President Obama (www.whitehouse.gov) IdaBriggs Jul 2012 #263

someday people will look back and call it "the right to slaughter their fellow citizens" in the CTyankee Jul 2012 #276

No, you are NOT clear guardian Jul 2012 #282

They'll get huffy and inveigh some more on the internet. Dreamer Tatum Jul 2012 #296

If only we could ban guns... EX500rider Jul 2012 #297

+1.000.000! LiberalEsto Jul 2012 #303

You have my permission to go ahead and do what you say we won't like. Kaleva Jul 2012 #310

Locking SunsetDreams Jul 2012 #314