General Discussion

Martin Eden

(15,774 posts)

134. I know some people who voted for Obama twice, then Trump.

Mon Mar 19, 2018, 02:11 PM

Mar 2018

People are able to compartmentalize and to rationalize what appears to be indefensible.

You are entitled to believe that every single person who voted for Trump in 2016 is a sexist and a racist.

I know that is not true (as well as it is possible to know what is in another person's heart and mind).

Also, I made it quite clear we should not waste our time trying to persuade diehard Trumpbaggers and white nationalists.

I also specifically stated we should not pander to bigotry or compromise our principles.

In this context, "reach out" means the Democratic Party should bolster it's core principles and do its best to convince the American people we can be trusted to serve their interests (which does not include sexism & racism).

What is it you disagree with?

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To those insisting that we "reach out to" and "understand" Trump supporters, let me break it down [View all] EffieBlack Mar 2018 OP

Fuck em... mikeysnot Mar 2018 #1

And Republicans In General PaulX2 Mar 2018 #39

Agree, you might as well be talking to a potted plant. Pepsidog Mar 2018 #44

Accually, talking to a potted plant has some benefits elmac Mar 2018 #52

A lot of "plants" have been repotted and replanted by Hortensis Mar 2018 #69

True Pepsidog Mar 2018 #78

Double fuck 'em lillypaddle Mar 2018 #76

They have been like this for generation. Good article here in BigmanPigman Mar 2018 #192

thanks for the link lillypaddle Mar 2018 #210

Trump voters and Trump voter defenders can fuck off! They're all sympathizers and enablers... NurseJackie Mar 2018 #2

And they are everywhere. Eliot Rosewater Mar 2018 #101

This message was self-deleted by its author RestoreAmerica2020 Mar 2018 #209

That attitude sure worked well for us recently hueymahl Mar 2018 #3

bullshit heaven05 Mar 2018 #12

Just so I am clear hueymahl Mar 2018 #23

I'm not about to call heaven05 Mar 2018 #60

Ahhhh...yeah. You wrote what you wrote, right? brush Mar 2018 #66

I never have heaven05 Mar 2018 #80

Sorry, I meant to respond to Hueyman. I agree with your post. I will delete and re-post. brush Mar 2018 #89

Ahhhh...yeah. You wrote what you wrote, right? brush Mar 2018 #87

Where did I say they were decent people? hueymahl Mar 2018 #113

Are you trying to inject reason into our venting BlueWI Mar 2018 #183

LOL hueymahl Mar 2018 #198

Wow. Are you sure you're in the right place? EffieBlack Mar 2018 #203

Woohoo. Well said. brush Mar 2018 #64

There were non-racists who voted for Trump, despite his obvious racism... thesquanderer Mar 2018 #70

I can and will heaven05 Mar 2018 #77

Exactly! Unca Jim Mar 2018 #90

good point heaven05 Mar 2018 #104

Yes, that much is true, I'll give you that! (n/t) thesquanderer Mar 2018 #189

Period. sheshe2 Mar 2018 #135

Painting with a broad brush, without looking at individuals can be "common sense"... thesquanderer Mar 2018 #188

I learned heaven05 Mar 2018 #191

I think it is human nature to generalize... thesquanderer Mar 2018 #196

undoubtedly heaven05 Mar 2018 #216

13% of Trump voters voted for Obama over Romney in 2012. thesquanderer Mar 2018 #232

I understand your point that racism is simply not as important to them as other things, EffieBlack Mar 2018 #235

re: "but how do you explain..." thesquanderer Mar 2018 #246

For me, the bottom one is not whats in their hearts. I dont care if they meet the definition EffieBlack Mar 2018 #247

yep nt heaven05 Mar 2018 #249

You are attacking Democrats and dividing us ollie10 Mar 2018 #83

your line of reasoning heaven05 Mar 2018 #102

Very well said hueymahl Mar 2018 #115

"These are potential D voters in 2020 if we give them a good reason to vote D" lunamagica Mar 2018 #120

We spent too much time focusing on Trump, not enough on our message ollie10 Mar 2018 #123

But we received MILLIONS more votes. The election was stolen lunamagica Mar 2018 #138

We need to win more states ollie10 Mar 2018 #148

Those are people who will NEVER vote democrat. Pandering to them -like Gore did by lunamagica Mar 2018 #149

We seem to be talking about two different groups of Trump voters ollie10 Mar 2018 #153

How do we do that? Like I said in my post (and you ignored) lunamagica Mar 2018 #155

We were talking about Hillary's speech ollie10 Mar 2018 #157

Again, I'm sure that those who were offended are the unreacheable ones lunamagica Mar 2018 #158

Hillary was unfairly criticized constantly for supposedly being dishonest EffieBlack Mar 2018 #217

*The media* spent too much time focusing on Trump, not enough on the Democratic message muriel_volestrangler Mar 2018 #231

I will try to be clear ollie10 Mar 2018 #233

So Trump had great success saying "my opposition is useless", but we should avoid saying that muriel_volestrangler Mar 2018 #237

Anyone who would be turned off if we go after Trump needs to stay over theres with him EffieBlack Mar 2018 #239

So what are you saying? ollie10 Mar 2018 #241

Lamb ran in the most Republican district it's possible to think could be flipped muriel_volestrangler Mar 2018 #245

Ok. Just explain to me.. ollie10 Mar 2018 #248

The problem is saying we need to "reach out to" people who voted for a bigot muriel_volestrangler Mar 2018 #250

I posted my comment before I saw yours, which says exactly what I wanted, only better! EffieBlack Mar 2018 #255

A little shame goes a long way - and some of them may only switch if they EffieBlack Mar 2018 #256

Hillary admitted that calling half of Trump supporters ollie10 Mar 2018 #259

This has nothing to do with getting our ideas out there. EffieBlack Mar 2018 #253

that's false....Dem messaging will not convert a Trumpster BoneyardDem Mar 2018 #257

THIS progressoid Mar 2018 #169

YOu and the OP relayerbob Mar 2018 #96

All you have are disingenuous insults and Cha Mar 2018 #208

Well youre a lovely one, arent you? Thanks for making this a great place! MadDAsHell Mar 2018 #105

just stating heaven05 Mar 2018 #108

Losing elections? gratuitous Mar 2018 #21

There's an old saying about counting your electronic votes before they've hatched. -nt CrispyQ Mar 2018 #24

And we only had to let the worst person of all time get elected president to do so hueymahl Mar 2018 #25

If you're saying they're decent people, they'll come around on their own. Let them, but not... brush Mar 2018 #57

Until we deal with the Fox News and their traitor shows, wingnuts will never be abandon Dotard. Pepsidog Mar 2018 #67

Actually it has. Hence, Blue Wave. MrsCoffee Mar 2018 #74

Rather like trying to persuade... 3catwoman3 Mar 2018 #4

Reaching out is a two way street. I am willing to do it... if they are as well ck4829 Mar 2018 #5

Beautiful post EffieBlack Mar 2018 #6

+++BAM!!!! heaven05 Mar 2018 #7

The deplorables are unreachable unless the democratic party wants to welcome racists workinclasszero Mar 2018 #8

As Hillary was trying to point out, there are TWO baskets. Only one... LAS14 Mar 2018 #59

All the time, effort and manpower to get one damn Trump voter to grudgingly vote democratic workinclasszero Mar 2018 #98

If you live in Alabama instead of Harlem, your position makes no sense. nt LAS14 Mar 2018 #109

Here are the Trump voters you are so passionate about going after...good luck! LOLOL workinclasszero Mar 2018 #100

I never once said I was passionate about going after Trump voters. LAS14 Mar 2018 #110

LOL- how many threads about Trump voters did you start? Its your passion alright. bettyellen Mar 2018 #139

Point to one. LAS14 Mar 2018 #143

Exactly. whathehell Mar 2018 #174

Not only is there a plethora of "It's political suicide not to reach out to Trump supporter" OPs EffieBlack Mar 2018 #182

Wow. Thats a pretty succinct summary of the MAGA crap. Thanks. bettyellen Mar 2018 #140

You are welcome workinclasszero Mar 2018 #142

Reach out, perhaps not. But, you've got to understand the virus to properly eradicate it. TheBlackAdder Mar 2018 #9

That's what the right wing infopedia is for. ck4829 Mar 2018 #11

That's very high-level and doesn't seem to delve into root causes. TheBlackAdder Mar 2018 #128

Okay. Could you enlarge on that a bit? Demit Mar 2018 #16

What is it's source? Such as Southern Paternalism, Evangelicalism, Cloistered or Remote Tribalism? TheBlackAdder Mar 2018 #126

I'm afraid that doesn't explain the racism in large cities, such as Boston or Philadelphia. Demit Mar 2018 #212

I'm sure there is peer reviewed research on the topics. What you ask can not be answered in a post. TheBlackAdder Mar 2018 #225

I was only asking you to explain "you've got to understand the virus to properly eradicate it." Demit Mar 2018 #226

Is this a troll post, asking to be spoon-fed with countless redirects? You asked about cities next. TheBlackAdder Mar 2018 #227

If their loyalties can switch that easily, they can be snatched back easily, too EffieBlack Mar 2018 #230

If you think asking someone to enlarge on their breezy generalization is trolling, Demit Mar 2018 #258

racism is fear Hermit-The-Prog Mar 2018 #145

Racism is more than just fear EffieBlack Mar 2018 #218

no diminishment, not excused Hermit-The-Prog Mar 2018 #234

Agree with everything you said, Effie. flibbitygiblets Mar 2018 #10

Indeed, I think that's why his daily life became the scandal to them ck4829 Mar 2018 #13

Don't forget the "flag pin" hysteria, the "Terrorist fist jab" BumRushDaShow Mar 2018 #32

God... ck4829 Mar 2018 #33

The lazy N___r meme exboyfil Mar 2018 #30

Well considered and well written---as usual. K&R. nt Atticus Mar 2018 #14

They're the fringe minority.... fuck them! Chakaconcarne Mar 2018 #15

About all I can give these people is my promise Burma Jones Mar 2018 #17

"understand" does not mean "sympathize". . . . . nt Bernardo de La Paz Mar 2018 #18

Absolutely!!! nt LAS14 Mar 2018 #61

Here's A Good Example Of Those We're Expected To 'Forgive & Forget' Who They Are Me. Mar 2018 #19

Ignore them. GOTV. dalton99a Mar 2018 #20

Again, millions of Romney voters broke for Clinton. NCTraveler Mar 2018 #22

Great post. safeinOhio Mar 2018 #26

Trump supporters and the wide group of Fox News conservatives have been programmed to hate liberals lancelyons Mar 2018 #27

I do not believe True Blue American Mar 2018 #34

Thanks for your post! Big K&R! Anon-C Mar 2018 #28

I don't know about reaching out loyalsister Mar 2018 #29

I totally agree! LAS14 Mar 2018 #68

Thank You For That True Blue American Mar 2018 #31

The last time I discussed politics at work...... dameatball Mar 2018 #35

Reaching out to a supporter of that Progressive dog Mar 2018 #36

That's my question, as well gratuitous Mar 2018 #53

Well said Progressive dog Mar 2018 #62

They're the winners... lame54 Mar 2018 #37

On a personal level I agree. We can do what we want. jalan48 Mar 2018 #38

You cant fix stupid. Or evil. kairos12 Mar 2018 #40

There is absolutely no way sagetea Mar 2018 #41

Those who love that he's shaking things up do so because.......... MRDAWG Mar 2018 #42

Bookmarked and thanks for your words. yonder Mar 2018 #43

they are a waste of time Angry Dragon Mar 2018 #45

I agree! leftofcool Mar 2018 #46

Not One More Minute DownFromTheMountain Mar 2018 #47

I tried to reach out to the them in the GC & RKBA sub forum and that didn't work out well ffr Mar 2018 #48

If they even cared one rip about the fact that their party is destroying the country my onecaliberal Mar 2018 #49

Yep. I would rather make sure minorities can vote and we're upholding our Constitutional values ck4829 Mar 2018 #51

The thing that made this crystal clear to me is they supported a fucking child molester rather than onecaliberal Mar 2018 #91

Oh yes. Wake up call to me too. ck4829 Mar 2018 #92

Not a Party The Wizard Mar 2018 #119

Woohoo! I love this righteous rant.Straight and to the point. brush Mar 2018 #50

There is a difference between people who ... Whiskeytide Mar 2018 #54

Your mistake is that you equate "they" with "all of them." LAS14 Mar 2018 #55

They'll have to hit rock bottom. Turbineguy Mar 2018 #56

And Mussolini made the trains run on time. BobTheSubgenius Mar 2018 #58

Living in rural Missouri Kurt V. Mar 2018 #63

Excellent post. I hate his supporters more than him amuse bouche Mar 2018 #65

It Texas, the Texas Democratic Party focused on winning east Texas for too long Gothmog Mar 2018 #71

Excellent example dalton99a Mar 2018 #84

Going after white voters is a waste of time and resources Gothmog Mar 2018 #116

Huh? whathehell Mar 2018 #173

In Texas we wasted a ton of time and money going after trump voters in East Texas Gothmog Mar 2018 #176

Okay, but that's a small subset ... When talking about "white people" whathehell Mar 2018 #180

I choose a different path 2left4u Mar 2018 #72

And how did that work out for him? lunatica Mar 2018 #86

A man is but a product of his thoughts. What he thinks he becomes. 2left4u Mar 2018 #94

fuck all republicans and specially trump supporters gopiscrap Mar 2018 #73

There are more of us then there are them, so fuck them. world wide wally Mar 2018 #75

When I grew up these were the people lunatica Mar 2018 #79

Thank You. n/t Mister Ed Mar 2018 #81

Hear Hear Leith Mar 2018 #82

I don't think I can reach out...they make me feel all yucky inside when I hear them talk C Moon Mar 2018 #85

I wouldn't spend two seconds reaching out grumpyduck Mar 2018 #88

In other words, if people don't agree with you, they are wrong mythology Mar 2018 #93

+1,000,000 - well said - n/t Locrian Mar 2018 #95

Division 2left4u Mar 2018 #106

Hits the nail on the head hueymahl Mar 2018 #118

Thanks for this post! nt LAS14 Mar 2018 #114

You nailed it. stranger81 Mar 2018 #177

Sorry too extreme of a position for me askyagerz Mar 2018 #97

Thanks for this post! nt LAS14 Mar 2018 #112

DU rec... SidDithers Mar 2018 #99

:-) EffieBlack Mar 2018 #121

At my age The Wizard Mar 2018 #103

People in DU are suggesting we reach out to dumpsters? ailsagirl Mar 2018 #107

It's unbelievable, but true lunamagica Mar 2018 #156

Another one of these? melman Mar 2018 #111

Dems have been winning a lot of Trump districts lately IronLionZion Mar 2018 #117

Not all people who voted for Trump are cut from the same cloth Martin Eden Mar 2018 #122

They voted for a clear bigota sexist and a racist. ismnotwasm Mar 2018 #127

I know some people who voted for Obama twice, then Trump. Martin Eden Mar 2018 #134

Voting for Obama does NOT preclude one from being a racist ismnotwasm Mar 2018 #137

What I object to is soft-pedaling racism, sexism and bigotry. Martin Eden Mar 2018 #160

Thanks! nt LAS14 Mar 2018 #132

+1 progressoid Mar 2018 #170

Great post, Effie! I agree completely! Time is precious, and should not be wasted on people lunamagica Mar 2018 #124

There is absolutely no reason why you should have to do either. Tom Rinaldo Mar 2018 #125

We can forget them as long radical noodle Mar 2018 #129

Your very premise is wrong, but hey, don't let that stop the Two Minute Hate jerk-fest. Decoy of Fenris Mar 2018 #130

Thanks to you and to all that have taken the time to respond carefully... LAS14 Mar 2018 #131

Always a pleasure. Here's hoping we can maintain that edge. This place has me wondering some days nt Decoy of Fenris Mar 2018 #133

Well said 2left4u Mar 2018 #150

Can win midterms by resisting voter suppression ck4829 Mar 2018 #151

We just won an election in a swing district where health care was the most important issue BeyondGeography Mar 2018 #152

Yep 2left4u Mar 2018 #154

"Not everyone's life revolves around race." BumRushDaShow Mar 2018 #172

Well said, EB. I am increasingly suspicious of the "Make Nice With Trumpsters" threads on DU. Paladin Mar 2018 #136

You hit the nail on the head. Sadly, we can't even discuss or question them without lunamagica Mar 2018 #141

(1) Dilution of energy and focus, (2) Reconciliation, (3) Ideological accommodation dalton99a Mar 2018 #146

Hmmm 2left4u Mar 2018 #147

What someone has said (You, 2left4u, I think) is that... LAS14 Mar 2018 #163

Yes 2left4u Mar 2018 #165

+1 BlueWI Mar 2018 #186

Baloney, baloney, baloney!!!! LAS14 Mar 2018 #164

Thank you EffieBlack. sheshe2 Mar 2018 #144

Or let me put it more simply gay texan Mar 2018 #159

so what's the solution? Locrian Mar 2018 #161

Exactly! Thanks for this. nt LAS14 Mar 2018 #162

I love how you jump around my threads cheerleading and encouraging everyone who EffieBlack Mar 2018 #166

Yes, I am invested in my mission to keep the flag of intelligence flying among progressives. nt LAS14 Mar 2018 #167

Yes, I'm sure that's what it is ... EffieBlack Mar 2018 #168

*They* are the problem, *They* ARE that division you mention ck4829 Mar 2018 #181

Break it down to the DNC. whathehell Mar 2018 #171

I understand Trump voters all too well. Ill do my reaching out to Millenials and minority voters. argyl Mar 2018 #175

Except for the ones that voted for Obama twice 2left4u Mar 2018 #178

Actually, anyone who voted for Obama twice and then voted for Trump is confused EffieBlack Mar 2018 #184

I agree with you on that...confused is being polite 2left4u Mar 2018 #236

Thats a rare breed in my experience. The one thing they wouldnt call Obama is Mr. President. argyl Mar 2018 #195

This message was self-deleted by its author goldenheart Mar 2018 #179

How do the Democrats appeal to voters who want great wealth and power over others? And why would we EffieBlack Mar 2018 #185

Forget It goldenheart Mar 2018 #194

Not much flesh left on this dead horse..... Glamrock Mar 2018 #187

So true, but still... BlueWI Mar 2018 #197

if you vote for a racist, you ARE a racist Skittles Mar 2018 #190

I don't think voting for a racist necessarily makes one a racist ... EffieBlack Mar 2018 #193

My favorite - "He's pissing the Liberals off. That's all I care about!" Oneironaut Mar 2018 #199

The built in destruct mechanism for liberalism is tolerance for people who would murder them Abu Pepe Mar 2018 #200

Yup. Antidemocratic ideologies, world views and symbols are NOT free speech. There's a terrible cost FreepFryer Mar 2018 #202

Snd yet, no. I cant go for banning any speech or symbol. Abu Pepe Mar 2018 #204

A ban isn't the core of the issue. FreepFryer Mar 2018 #205

Shame works, usually better than anything among homo sapiens Abu Pepe Mar 2018 #206

As we have seen, not everyone is susceptible to shame. Denazification works too. (n/t) FreepFryer Mar 2018 #207

Once they are de-Nazified, we can look to understand and help them recover from their actions. (n/t) FreepFryer Mar 2018 #201

Trump supporters are traitors to our Democracy! BlueJac Mar 2018 #211

There are "Trump supporters" and there are those who voted for Trump in ignorance Nitram Mar 2018 #213

I have been making this point constantly - but some insist on mischaracterizing what I've said EffieBlack Mar 2018 #219

Exactly. If we lump them all together, we will lose elections. Nitram Mar 2018 #220

I dont lump them together definitionally, but they need to sort themselves out EffieBlack Mar 2018 #223

Ye will judge them by their actions. A bunch of ex-Trump voters just voted for a Democrat in Nitram Mar 2018 #224

Ding! Ding! Ding! EffieBlack Mar 2018 #229

Some are purists and have a thing about being "more liberal than thou." Nitram Mar 2018 #244

It's all about our message 2left4u Mar 2018 #238

Not about name-calling - but we should call them out for their behavior. Pretending that voting for EffieBlack Mar 2018 #240

I agree 2left4u Mar 2018 #242

Nobody is saying "voting for Trump was an innocent mistake." We are saying Democrats are welcome Nitram Mar 2018 #243

Did some DUers get tired of winning? IronLionZion Mar 2018 #214

They view "Liberal" as evil Cary Mar 2018 #215

I get the "I've chosen to overlook" his sexism and sexual assault of women mcar Mar 2018 #221

And some of these are the same people who claim they voted for Obama but soured on him because they EffieBlack Mar 2018 #228

Well said, Effie. brer cat Mar 2018 #222

People are still sawing that log? tazkcmo Mar 2018 #251

I have my own ideas. What do you think? EffieBlack Mar 2018 #252

Everyone needs a hobby tazkcmo Mar 2018 #254